Cae'dal language

[Gaptia]

Putting a language needed to advance the signature on a random collection is very a poor design and will create a real barrier on servers with a strong population. Please think again and either put it the shiny on static spot or design a real quest to get the language.

[Ellimist]

mmm agreed. Collections like the book collections in KP would be fine.

[Entropy]

Suggestion:<br /> <br />1) make them slightly more common<br />2) change the name to ! instead of ? (so we can stop picking up ?'s after we finish those and just need !'s)<br />3) consider making them tradeable (if so, dont make them more common)

[wazul]

artificial wall, timesink. it's very a bad and frustrating idea.<br />with TRACK, 2H, and only 3 /8 !!!<br /> <br />how we can complet that in a server like thurgadin ?!? (more 50 peeps by instance)

[Materfarmer]

There is a post by dev already alluding to making them a different color and more common. I believe it was also stated that the shinys are coded to always be up "somewhere" in the zone.

[Kaitheel]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Materfarmer"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Materfarmer said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380230#post-6380230" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">There is a post by dev already alluding to making them a different color and more common. I believe it was also stated that the shinys are coded to always be up "somewhere" in the zone.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />Accurate. Also, they are going to be ! not ? after the next Beta update.<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel

[Tohopka]

Kaitheel - couldnt they be like the other 3 lang's in kunark where they are pages on the ground? just asking a silly question is all.

[Kaitheel]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Tohopka"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Tohopka said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380351#post-6380351" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Kaitheel - couldnt they be like the other 3 lang's in kunark where they are pages on the ground? just asking a silly question is all.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />I don't have a problem with that, but how is that different from making it a red shiny? I changed the appearance so that it wouldn't be confused with other collectibles. Do you think the page is more noticeable, or just more associated with languages?<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel

[Wurm]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kaitheel"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kaitheel said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380402#post-6380402" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I don't have a problem with that, but how is that different from making it a red shiny? I changed the appearance so that it wouldn't be confused with other collectibles. Do you think the page is more noticeable, or just more associated with languages?<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>The pages where always the same page in the same spot and you could camp the one you needed, if it wasn't there when you arrived. Which removed the RNG from the equation.

[Sucha]

Forget how many pieces in collection but let's say 8-10. They are scattered throughout the zone. Now put 100 people on a server in that zone trying to find all the pieces they need to complete that collection just to learn a language so they are not gated out of content for who knows how long before they get all the pieces they need. Do you not see where the problem is here Kaitheel? This is ludicrous.

[Conifur]

I really think they need to put this in game now and let us flood all of Kunark searching for this "rumored" new language; but I will admit I like the idea of "!" instead of "?". I know where I will be heading the moment I complete the first quest in the cave once this goes live.

[ZUES]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kaitheel"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kaitheel said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380402#post-6380402" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I don't have a problem with that, but how is that different from making it a red shiny? I changed the appearance so that it wouldn't be confused with other collectibles. Do you think the page is more noticeable, or just more associated with languages?<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>I agree and think it's fine. It won't be long before each waypoint is up on eq2wiki. So, while this may bottleneck our launch, I believe making it similar to the existing Kunark Green and Black Tome collections is a great idea. And I love the red shiney idea. Tells us to leave it for the next guy that comes along instead of looting it for the meta collection.<br /> <br />Here are a couple other ideas:<br /> <br />1. Make the language quest similar to some of those in EQ1. Hail a roaming NPC, sit down with NPC for X amount of time, learn the language. You would see groups of players all sitting in similar spots. It would be funny. It would also alleviate bottlenecking. Some NPC's may need an emote spammed to them in order to teach us the language. In EQ1 a player could sit down with another player and spam a macro for an hour. You get beter at "X" language 1-500 with each spam. My fingers still hurt and that was 16? years ago. (My personal pick, very nostalgic)<br /> <br />2. A stationary object (pillar, totem, etc.) that once clicked washes you with a magic animation effect. 7-8 timed effects / buffs combined turn into wisdom and understanding of "X" race and language. No bottlenecking with this either.<br /> <br />3. An sub-questline that runs us through Fens, KP and JW.<br /> <br />4. Currency purchased language primer from an NPC. Example: 500 currency. Requires sig line up to the advanced solos. Do X amount of advanced solos to earn X amount of currency before we can proceed on the sig line. Each player gates their own progression. This would encourage both solo and heroic groups.<br /> <br />5. Mercenary influenced language. Hail your merc and receive a questline. He wants armor. Get it to him and he/she teaches you the language. A good way to introduce the new armor slots and knock out two birds with one stone. This is a page out of Dragon Age: Inquisition.

[Asuna]

I'm also begging you to make them tradeable. You guys said you wanted us to get back to helping each other and doing things together. I could have helped several people if I could trade these things. Especially for a quest where everyone is trying to do it. I've been on all morning and I am still trying to get my last one. =(

[Grumpy_Warrior]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="ZUES"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">ZUES said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380593#post-6380593" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">1. Make the language quest similar to some of those in EQ1. Hail a roaming NPC, sit down with NPC for X amount of time, learn the language. You would see groups of players all sitting in similar spots. It would be funny. It would also alleviate bottlenecking. Some NPC's may need an emote spammed to them in order to teach us the language. In EQ1 a player could sit down with another player and spam a macro for an hour. You get beter at "X" language 1-500 with each spam. My fingers still hurt and that was 16? years ago. (My personal pick, very nostalgic)</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Love this idea even though it will never happen. Nostalgia, Woooo!

[Taiyla]

I'm extremely frustrated at this point!<br /> <br />I've completed the Sig quest up to the zones which aren't available yet.<br /> <br />I've done the TS quests up to the point where Brytthel tells me "My next quest isn't ready yet - come back later! In the mean time, why not make Caith happy and test ascension classes?" While I find that amusing it just adds to the frustration since at the moment there really isn't a lot to kill in the new area.<br /> <br /> Here's the real frustration! I can see two other feathers for quests in Nye'Caelona which I can't get because I don't speak the language. I've been searching for 3 days trying to complete the language quest, picking up or looking at every shiny in the hopes I'll find a "Pristine Cae'Dal Tome" with no luck. It would appear that this one is the rare spawn..... why would there be a rare spawn on a language quest? Making the "!" is somewhat helpful but still not finding the right one. I like Wurm's suggestion from above where they spawn in the same place every time. We still have to run around and pick them up but it would ease some of the frustration. Please change something to make this easier. There have been a number of suggestions for this language quest, any one of them would be fine. Don't let it go live as it is.

[Ciaraffion]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Asuna"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Asuna said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380600#post-6380600" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I'm also begging you to make them tradeable. You guys said you wanted us to get back to helping each other and doing things together. I could have helped several people if I could trade these things. Especially for a quest where everyone is trying to do it. I've been on all morning and I am still trying to get my last one. =(</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>OMG please no!, will get the same people harvesting them permanently, and they will be on broker for 300kpp, make them regional, so that the shinies in one area is such and such rune etc but not tradeable

[Cheesenabber]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ciaraffion"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ciaraffion said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380645#post-6380645" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">OMG please no!, will get the same people harvesting them permanently, and they will be on broker for 300kpp, make them regional, so that the shinies in one area is such and such rune etc but not tradeable</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Agreed. Only tradeable I'd want is the 48 hours group tradeable thing (so if I'm searching with friends/guildies/etc. we can spread out a little)

[morath]

Contested RNG shinies to advance a questline promotes MMO community building at it's finest... Seriously who makes these timesink roadblock decisions that pits people against each other? Poor design.

[Grumpy_Warrior]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Canth"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Canth said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380688#post-6380688" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I'd rather have them on the broker instead of searching for 5 days looking for the single damned one I can't find. This is horrible design. Major stumbling block. I'd make them lore though, like the red shinies so people can only have one. At least if they were able to be traded, guildies and friends could help. Right now, even if someone shouts the one I need, it's gone before I can get there.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>That's the answer, make them lore/notrade and once you have the set completed you can't see them anymore. Or do like the beastlord epic shinies where you have to wear an item to see them, then the item goes away when you complete the thing.

[Wurm]

No zone non brokerable, that way the people doing the quest at that moment can help each other out but can't profit from them.

[Carnades]

Its also going to be a pain to find these if you are not a crafter, since you don't have track harvestables skill without. <br />Altho you could use the Gnomish divining item to track. <br />Making it a static page like they had in Kunark for Froak and Satherian would be better. <br /> <br />Don't know if there is a command to share waypoints(like in lvl or general chat) instead of having to type it all out, if there isn't as yet Id think it would be a great way to help others, not just for shinies but for other locations also. Helping others in game is one of the reasons I play this game.

[Jimie]

The update is in, the ? is now ! Instead of 50 people running around the zone looting everything possible, there are now 50 people with track harvest open flying around the zone. The majority of people are totally skipping the normal ones. Track looks rather confused with 15 question marks all over it. <br /> <br />You can change the color / object and it will not help the bottle neck. There will be too many people trying for 8 items. I get the impending faction grinds and the search for the 2.0's, but this is needless nonsense. Static spawn points would be a step in the right direction.

[Canth]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Ciaraffion"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Ciaraffion said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380645#post-6380645" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">OMG please no!, will get the same people harvesting them permanently, and they will be on broker for 300kpp, make them regional, so that the shinies in one area is such and such rune etc but not tradeable</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />I'd rather have them on the broker instead of searching for 5 days looking for the single damned one I can't find. This is horrible design. Major stumbling block. I'd make them lore though, like the red shinies so people can only have one. At least if they were able to be traded, guildies and friends could help. Right now, even if someone shouts the one I need, it's gone before I can get there.

[Duffy]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kaitheel"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kaitheel said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380402#post-6380402" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I don't have a problem with that, but how is that different from making it a red shiny? I changed the appearance so that it wouldn't be confused with other collectibles. Do you think the page is more noticeable, or just more associated with languages?<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>Yes, it is not the different appearance but the static spawn, that made the language quest in RoK so much better. It is ok they are no-trade, so people won't put them on the broker. It is ok a language quests was made through picking up shinies, it's just that they are no static spawn.<br /> <br />Yesterday we joked about that in RoK you could go with static spawn because of the abundance of content it had to offer, but here you had to put in a (really much hated) major timesink to strech thin content. I hope it's not true ;(

[Duffy]

And to do that again and again and again for my 8+ alts in endgame. God no, please... of course not everybody enjoys every quest a game has to offer, but the design of this particular quest makes me wanting to tear my hair out.

[avashi]

I don't understand whats going on with this expansion there has been one delaying tactic after another. This being the worst. I copied 4 toons over to beta and only one as collected the shines for the language, the rest are all stuck at this spot, hunting hour after hours its 7:46 am central U.S. time and ive been here an hour 3 ! have popped in all this time and of course i don't need either. So, the drop rate has definitely NOT been increased or the ! shinies have ALL dropped below the surface of the planet. Please, Please, Please, fix this. And as for this going live??????? I for sure will not be here fighting and getting frustrated as each shiny i start to pick up is snatched away. This happens on regular shinies, heck, even the food plants in Thalumbra are snatched from unsuspecting harvesters, I see it everyday there. Update: found ! at 7:51:57 next one popped at 7:57:19, really? Again, please, please, please fix this.

[Naneeje]

Day 4, four hours a night minimum, can not find a pristine scroll. That's too many hours invested on one shiny <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" /><br /> <br />Beta is fun, but for the last 3 days, 4 people in my guild including me have been searching for the pristine scroll, we have all had 1 or two opportunities to grab when announced, but all missed out. 3 of us still need it. <br /> <br />This is quick for some, if you have the zone, but... I am concerned about launch. This is going to hold up too many people from doing the quest and that is going to bring too much negativity to live chats. Please figure out a way to prevent this from happening. <br /> <br />For now, I keep on trying because I want to be caught up for when you go live with heroics, but this is crazy frustrating.

[avashi]

Ok i started searching for one freaking ! at 7:16 this morning it is not 9:34 ...i quit. I am NOT going to waste hours here today looking for a shiny that will not pop. BTW there is one stuck underground -451.75, -172.223, -963.63 which is probably the one i need...(kidding) lol I'll be back later today or tomorrow or the day after idk when my frustration goes away grrrrr.

[Mezaka]

I'm also going to add my voice to the suggestion about making these static spawns, or, at the very least, upping the respawn rate even more. Otherwise, this is going to be another bottleneck which will cause problems.

[Ciaraffion]

so far have played a total of 19.5 hours over the last 3 days, with track harvestable open, and have still not found the pristine Cae'dal rune (rare spawn) so it seems. In that time 6 of my guildies have completed the language quest, which sucks

[Naneeje]

In the last 2 hours, all 4 of us got our shinies needed but only because we got into Ob 3. Just so you are aware, the same shiny reported underground is in all 3 zone versions. <br />Now I can continue beta, but be forewarned, sitting on a shiny at launch and opening the window, and then SLR is completely possible, please avoid this <img src="/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" />

[Xevran]

Changing it to ! actually made it worse because now everyone is just tracking them. If it's designed to be frustrating then it's successful, if not then I think it needs to be changed. It's going to be a nightmare on the live servers if it's not changed in some manner. Personally I would prefer if it worked more similarly to how the RoK language collections worked.

[guard]

i agree static spawn points and lore and no trade

[Tierisch]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Gaptia"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Gaptia said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6379857#post-6379857" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Putting a language needed to advance the signature on a random collection is very a poor design and will create a real barrier on servers with a strong population. Please think again and either put it the shiny on static spot or design a real quest to get the language.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />I have to agree on Maj'Dul that could lead to blood. Heck I remember having to share the Mara Isle carpenter collection with just one other person and we almost came to blows =P

[Tierisch]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Grumpy_Warrior"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Grumpy_Warrior said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380606#post-6380606" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Love this idea even though it will never happen. Nostalgia, Woooo!</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />^^ This, I used to love sitting down with friends and chattering on learning each others languages.

[Kaitheel]

As of the most recent update:<br /><ul><li>All Cae'Dal language collectibles have been increased, and any rarity removed.</li></ul>It should go much faster now!<br />~ Kaitheel

[Tierisch]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kaitheel"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kaitheel said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6381360#post-6381360" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">As of the most recent update:<br /> <br /><ul><li>All Cae'Dal language collectibles have been increased, and any rarity removed.</li></ul>It should go much faster now!<br /> <br /> <br />~ Kaitheel</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />There still was one I had a lot of trouble getting but after 2 hours persistently looking for the language shinies I finally got it. Compared to folks who said they spent 2 days that's not bad at all.<br />Did you say you were going to make them red shinies? They are still yellow but with a ! instead of ? .. just FYI.

[Tierisch]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Carnades"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Carnades said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6380773#post-6380773" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Its also going to be a pain to find these if you are not a crafter, since you don't have track harvestables skill without.<br /> <br />Altho you could use the Gnomish divining item to track.<br /> <br />Making it a static page like they had in Kunark for Froak and Satherian would be better.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />Don't know if there is a command to share waypoints(like in lvl or general chat) instead of having to type it all out, if there isn't as yet Id think it would be a great way to help others, not just for shinies but for other locations also. Helping others in game is one of the reasons I play this game.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br /> <br />Use /LOC CLIPBOARD then you can just CTRL V it into the chat channel after.

[Xianthia]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kaitheel"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kaitheel said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6381360#post-6381360" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">As of the most recent update:<br /><ul><li>All Cae'Dal language collectibles have been increased, and any rarity removed.</li></ul>It should go much faster now!<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />This certainly helped and it's so much better than at the start, thank you!<br /> <br />I've done the language collection on three characters. Each experience so far has improved.<br />One character did the collection before I knew it was "needed", that was lucky.<br />Second one was when it was being discussed (in general chat) that it's needed to continue. Many people hunting them.<br />Third one was after the changes. Had an abundance of ! shinies. She seemed to get stuck on one of them but at the rate that I could hunt them down it felt much better.<br /> <br />It does feel like there may still be a bit of a rarity being involved on some of them, or it may just be I was after one specific one and wanted right away <img src="/images/smilies/tongue.gif" alt="Tongue" /><br /> <br />Thanks for the changes.

[Kaitheel]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Tierisch"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Tierisch said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6381397#post-6381397" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">Did you say you were going to make them red shinies? They are still yellow but with a ! instead of ? .. just FYI.</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div>They were for a while, but there was conflict with that (other confusion), so it was changed to yellow. Thankfully, with the other changes that were made, changing the color of the shiny was not such a necessity.<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel

[Garten]

I know you've said that the rarity was removed, but here are the results from doing this collection today (started it today, finished it today, so no patches in between)<br /> <br />7x Torn Cae'Dal Scroll<br />5x Dirty Cae'Dal Scroll<br />1x Pristine Cae'Dal Scroll<br />8x Worn Cae'Dal Tome<br />2x Pristine Cae'Dal Tome<br />10x Chipped Cae'Dal Rune Stone<br />12x Cracked Cae'Dal Rune Stone<br />6x Glowing Cae'Dal Rune Stone<br /> <br />I also made huge progress on a couple of other collections as well as completing one entirely. I didn't watch the time since I wasn't at my desk the entire time, but it definitely took me more than a few hours to complete this. I don't know if this language quest is meant to be a bottleneck/gating point in the timeline, but it is right now, and this is going to be ragequit worthy for a lot of folks once it goes to live like this <img src="/images/smilies/frown.gif" alt="Frown" />

[Kaitheel]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Garten"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Garten said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6381936#post-6381936" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">I know you've said that the rarity was removed, but ...</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />You were right! My change, removing the rarity seems to have been reverted. I'll submit that again!<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel

[Xianthia]

<div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeQuote" data-author="Kaitheel"> <aside> <div class="attribution type">Kaitheel said: <a href="index.php?goto/post&id=6381957#post-6381957" class="AttributionLink">↑</a> </div> <blockquote><span class="ae_quote_symbol">“</span><span class="ae_quote_content">You were right! My change, removing the rarity seems to have been reverted. I'll submit that again!<br /> <br />~ Kaitheel</span><span class="ae_quote_symbol">”</span></blockquote> </aside></div> <br />AHA! so my feeling was a true and not just me wanting the shiny right away <img src="/images/smilies/tongue.gif" alt="Tongue" /><img src="/images/smilies/tongue.gif" alt="Tongue" />