800+ Ext DPS

[Ancientchex]

<div></div><div></div>Hello I have been reading the forums here for a bit ...... I have read posts from the Monk and Bruiser sections of people getting 800-1600 Ext DPS for a zone.   I can not get close to that(800+ext dps) for the life me.   I am level 70, have 19 masters, AA's: 4-4-8 int, 4-4-8 Sta, 4-4-7 Wis;  no fabled gear->mainly legendary.  Last night I did a pickup group in HoF, we cleared and my Ext DPS for the zone was 515 (coulda been 580 but got lazy at the end), none the less its far from the 800+ I hear about.  The group had a 1 Zerk, 2 Wiz, 1 Temp, 1 Mystic and I did get top zone parse(which isnt saying much).  When MT pulls I start with Storming fists & KO Combo, then spam my CA's, doing the big hitters first(Kidney punch, 100 hand punch...) and leaving weaker ones like "pound" for last.  I use ACT program for my parsing.Is the trick to higher DPS, the order of the CA's ?Should I not Spam all my CA's and do more auto-attack ?Is it possible to get 800+ DPS without fabled gear ?  if so what would be a good goal for Ext DPS in a zone like HoF or Oblisk...Any pointers would be appriciated.thanks in advance.http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=495565111Hanuman 70 BruiserEnvyEverfrost server<div></div><p>Message Edited by Ancientchex on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:17 AM</span>

[TheSummoned]

For the group you were in, the fact that it was a heroic zone and you had noone debuffing the mob's mitigation, that's quite a reasonable ammount of DPS you did. <div></div>

[Illustrious]

<P>1600 zonewide dps while certainly possible in a raid setting with good buffs and the mobs well debuffed. But i would be suprised if anyone was getting that close in a normal grp instance. 800-1000 DPS though i would imagine would be well possible in an instance depending on the instance and more importantly the grp makeup.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Thoral]

I can't remember which CA since I'm not at home, but make sure the CA that does extra damage if the mob is knocked down is always used after a knockdown.  Also, I've heard that the 100-hand CA line works better after a knockdown because of less of a chance for the mob to parry or dodge.Uh, I haven't done much raiding, so I'm not sure if this advice applies to epics.  Can they be knocked down?  Do they get up again?  Are we ever gonna keep them down....<div></div>

[Arathy]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ancientchex wrote:<div></div><div></div>When MT pulls I start with Storming fists & KO Combo, then spam my CA's, doing the big hitters first(Kidney punch, 100 hand punch...) and leaving weaker ones like "pound" for last.<hr></blockquote>Personally, when I use KO Combo I'll start off burning Pound and Dropkick because they have a much faster recast than our other big hitters.  This means you'll have less time waiting for CA's to refresh, which of course means more DPS.  Another combo of arts I tend to use is Steel Fist, followed by Callous Stomp (naturally), then 100 Hand Punch.. for me it seems I get less chance of mobs parrying after a knockdown.  Whether or not that's actually the case, I'm not entirely sure.  I also tend to use Uppercut, Eagle Spin (so lazy), Kidney Punch in that order.  Basically Eagle Spin just becomes another CA to burn during a KO Combo session.</div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

That's exactly the same order in CA's that I do to, good call.800 zone parse happens when you have debuffs and aren't in a crappy buffing group. I tend to parse around 600 DPS zonewide without any buffs, and depending on the situation (timing and dancing around with mobs can mess up parses).If your MT makes you wait 5-10s before calling for DPS, then your ExtDPS will look like crap too, just because it tacks on an extra 5-10s of you dong no damage onto the parse.ExtDPS isn't a good way to figure out how well you are parsing from one fight to the next really... in a zonewide, "how is the raid doing", yes.. it's fine. But as a "how am I doing when I'm DPSing" it's not a clear representation. The MT gets some resists off the bat, positioning is wrong.. suddenly your parse goes from 900 down to 450 because there's 20 wasted seconds of no combat.Using regular DPS has it's own pitfalls... don't do anything the whole fight and then smacking it for 2k kidney punch and then it dies gives you like a 2k parse. But as long as you start fighting as soon as the DPS is called, and the fight lasts a good 30s+, you'll get a good representation of your DPS without the added wasteful time.As you can see, parsing can be tricky. It really depends on the group you are in, the debuffs on the raid, and how much dancing around your raid does before actually calling for DPS.<div></div>

[Kaedi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fentan99 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ancientchex wrote:<BR> <BR>When MT pulls I start with Storming fists & KO Combo, then spam my CA's, doing the big hitters first(Kidney punch, 100 hand punch...) and leaving weaker ones like "pound" for last.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Personally, when I use KO Combo I'll start off burning Pound and Dropkick because they have a much faster recast than our other big hitters.  This means you'll have less time waiting for CA's to refresh, which of course means more DPS.  Another combo of arts I tend to use is Steel Fist, followed by Callous Stomp (naturally), then 100 Hand Punch.. for me it seems I get less chance of mobs parrying after a knockdown.  Whether or not that's actually the case, I'm not entirely sure.  <FONT color=#ff9900>I also tend to use Uppercut, Eagle Spin (so lazy), Kidney Punch in that order.</FONT>  Basically Eagle Spin just becomes another CA to burn during a KO Combo session.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I go Eagle Spin > Kidney Punch > Uppercut > 100 Hand punch.</P> <P> </P> <P>That way, if ES doesn't land, I can Uppercut and move through the mob for a Kidney Punch, and if it does land, Uppercut's side effect helps the 100 Hand Punch land all the hits.<BR></P>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fentan99 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ancientchex wrote:<BR> <BR>When MT pulls I start with Storming fists & KO Combo, then spam my CA's, doing the big hitters first(Kidney punch, 100 hand punch...) and leaving weaker ones like "pound" for last.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Personally, when I use KO Combo I'll start off burning Pound and Dropkick because they have a much faster recast than our other big hitters.  This means you'll have less time waiting for CA's to refresh, which of course means more DPS.  Another combo of arts I tend to use is Steel Fist, followed by Callous Stomp (naturally), then 100 Hand Punch.. for me it seems I get less chance of mobs parrying after a knockdown.  Whether or not that's actually the case, I'm not entirely sure.  I also tend to use Uppercut, Eagle Spin (so lazy), Kidney Punch in that order.  Basically Eagle Spin just becomes another CA to burn during a KO Combo session.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yup exactly how i smash them out  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and op with the group setup you had for legendary gear thats decent enough i wouldnt worry u will get better when u get a fist of bashing/pain/marrs etc etc <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Gungo]

<DIV>Um some hints</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Stay behind the mob for less parry/blocks etc (if not brawler)<BR>2) if your dps's stack dps gear (+dps proc signature earring, jewerly imbued str/agi rings, vampire freethinker proc set, brawler double atk set) <BR>3) work on your dps oriented AA in EoF<BR>4) Get as much str and int as you can (int helps your storm proc and mantis bolt do alot mroe damage)</DIV> <DIV>5) Master offensive stance is great as well as all combat arts mastered. <BR>6) get adornments even treasured ones if u can</DIV> <DIV>7) Do the rallos god line his cloak is good dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats it really not much we can do, our dps is dependant on other classes debuffs, physical mitigation and a to a certain extent fire. We are also highly reliant on other classes haste/dps buffs as well as procs etc. </DIV>

[Fleaba]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Um some hints</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Stay behind the mob for less parry/blocks etc (if not brawler)<BR>2) if your dps's stack dps gear (+dps proc signature earring, jewerly imbued str/agi rings, vampire freethinker proc set, brawler double atk set) <BR>3) work on your dps oriented AA in EoF<BR>4) Get as much str and int as you can (int helps your storm proc and mantis bolt do alot mroe damage)</DIV> <DIV>5) Master offensive stance is great as well as all combat arts mastered. <BR>6) get adornments even treasured ones if u can</DIV> <DIV>7) Do the rallos god line his cloak is good dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats it really not much we can do, our dps is dependant on other classes debuffs, physical mitigation and a to a certain extent fire. We are also highly reliant on other classes haste/dps buffs as well as procs etc. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Listen to him!! Was in a x 2 raid last weekend with him and he was parsing 1.4 to 1.6k during the fights on the x 2 MMC mobs. Gungo is teh l33t sauce!

[Navino]

<font size="3">I usually do about 900 in instances.1200 on raids...Im pretty much full fabled, weapons sorted, getting EOF equip, etc.The order I use, when using Knockout Combo is...Eyegash (Debuff.), eagle spin, kidney punch, upper cut, pound, dropkick, steel fist thingie, stomp, 1 hundred hand punch, Savage bruising and then Slap around. The AEs count as CAs, I have found. So...Extra dps. Spammage of CAs = more dmg, and I find that I can get pound and dropkick in x2, if I time it just right.My AA route for the first line isSta 1.Int = 4, 4, 8Wis = 4, 4, 8, 8, 8. And i've taken the intercept and dps routes in the bruiser only line. (Increase %'s)</font><div></div>

[satyr-icon]

<P>I am always on the parser around top 7 on raids. To make the parser i have to round 1k raid dps. I average 1200 to 1400. The tops on my guild is the pet users, [Removed for Content] and rangers, they usually rounds 2k to 2600.</P> <P>Weapon setup is the first key. Adorned weapons i use a high delay weapon in main hand and a short delay in offhand. When hasted i /realstat my weapons and look at the delay. If the delay is caped i swap out for slower weapons to get as close to cap as possible. Even a 55 DR weapon with 3 second swing times, becomes more dps than a 61 dps weapon with 1.s delay before haste is applied. Just a thing to think about.</P> <P>I try to get hasted as much as possible, it means more to me than dps, wich i selfbuff to around 75, haste however im only at 25pct, so a lot to gain there.</P> <P>I keep the dot up at all times and its the first CA i usually start with, in addition to our proc fists. I have the evade ability, but i run rumble on in raids and spend my deagro buff whenever i can. IF i still catch agro, i switch from rumble to evasion buff. The extra dps from rumble is worth it when hasted.</P> <P>I always run eagle spin and kidney punch as a team. I always fire off the 3 frontal stun/knockbacks as a team. If the two first is not going through, i run the eagle spin combo and finnish up with the double dmg one. Other than that i fire off whatever refreshes, when it does. For knockout combo, i start up with the two quick refresh ones, so that they can be used twice during the cycle. If i have time in the end, i fire the AEs.</P> <P>Prior to the evasive line, i was trying to even out my dps, firing off CAs in a steady tempo, so that i didnt launch all at once and then just auto attack for 30 seconds, but kept it an even stream of incoming dmg. This for agro purposes, stealing agro means holding off on the dps for a while, and thats not good for your parser results.</P> <P>With evasion line in place, i never worry about agro in raids, and it uped my average dps by about 200 points.</P> <P>My all time raid high is 2250 dps. For xp groups i got 2650 as high. Also worth noting is that dps in raids is dependent on your guild mates, as really high guild dps on raids, 17k or higher, will make your total dps-time shorter and thus not able to do as much as you would for a longer fight. The absolute best guild dps range is about 10k. At that pase you really get to show off, and you will easily average a 1600. I used to be around there when my guild were a bit younger, raid experiencewize.</P> <P>The monk in my guild is usually behind me on the dps list, but from time to time they spike ahead of me by 10 dps or in the most extreme situations 250dps higher. For the most part, except from those once in a blue moon incidents, i do the most melee dps in guild, what fighters is considered and even some scouts.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[ganjookie]

beer is lacking<div></div>

[TheSummoned]

<blockquote><hr>ganjookie wrote:beer is lacking<div></div><hr></blockquote>I concur! <div></div>

[Shankalot]

<DIV>it is doable, when i was 67 i got 700 dps easy with mainly auto attack on raids around 500 solo nowdays i have switched up my style so i may tank as well as dps, most i have got was 2236 in the obelisk of blight i average around 1000 to 1200 in groups with weapons, if u want pure dps u should consider str line  for unarmed combat and other lines u like to mix with it remember procs are bruisers best friends unarmed as stated by a eq2 game designer, " dont underestimate the power of procs for bruisers"</DIV>

[Illustrious]

<P>Weapon setup is the first key. Adorned weapons i use a high delay weapon in main hand and a short delay in offhand. When hasted i /realstat my weapons and look at the delay. If the delay is caped i swap out for slower weapons to get as close to cap as possible. Even a 55 DR weapon with 3 second swing times, becomes more dps than a 61 dps weapon with 1.s delay before haste is applied. Just a thing to think about.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>what delay cap? ive never noticed it myself looking at /weaponstats even when using really fast DW. They certainly got to 0.8 and lower delays(tho i use vraksakin now so havent checked in a while). For better dps if DW you want 2 weapons with the same delay other wise its impossible to time CAs to fall between auto attacks and you will inevitably miss some dps.</P>

[Thoral]

<div><blockquote><hr>Illustrious wrote:<div></div><snip><p>For better dps if DW you want 2 weapons with the same delay other wise its impossible to time CAs to fall between auto attacks and you will inevitably miss some dps.</p><hr></blockquote>I was looking at this last night, and it seemed to me that my autoattacks where landing even when I was chaining together my CAs.  I heard somewhere that they fixed it so you don't have to time your autoattacks like this anymore.  Anyone know for sure?</div>

[Illustrious]

<DIV>Auto attack will always hit but its how long it has to wait to fire because u are casting a CA is what counts. With 2 weapns with same delay say for example 2 secs then both weapons hit at same time and its easy to time CA inbetween without even trying. However with 1 weapon say 1.5 sec and the other say 2 secs while 1 weapon is attacking the other is not so when u cast a CA you will probably miss an auto attack from 1 hand but not the other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its possible this has been normalised or whatever now but dont remember seeing any update note about it</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div></div>As long as your modified speed after haste is around the 0.5-.09 second or 1.5-1.9 second mark, you can spam your combat arts and be okay.Weapons will continue their "recast" while you cast your Combat Arts, and since your combat arts are 0.5s cast and 0.5s recovery, that's the window your autoattack will fit in. So if you do a Combat Art, your autoattack will queue up in the meantime and then go off in the recovery period between chained CAs.If your haste brings your weapon speed to below 0.5 seconds, your autoattack will sit there waiting to go off while your are casting your CA. The same applies when you are sitting in the 1s-1.4s mark, because it'll just be every other CA that it comes into play.Using /weaponstats you can tweak just how much autoattack might be lost while chaining combat arts. Considering raiding on weekends ends up having upwards to 10 raids (200+ people) in some zones at the same time, "timing" your CAs can be extremely difficult (ever get button lag?).Chaining is far easier, so setting up your weapon delay to the "fire and forget" optimal autoattack mode makes things nice.All in all, it's only a matter of maybe 3-5 attacks missed per full chain 10-13 CAs. It won't be the end of the world if you don't optimize this... and if you can find a weapon that does some stupid damage or nice proc with an offsetting delay, then you are probably better off anyways.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Raidi Sovin'faile on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:17 AM</span>

[Thoral]

Ah!  That clears it up.  Autoattacks only go off during the recovery time, not during the casting time.  Thanks!<div></div>