Tips on how to beat Wardens?

[Owa]

<font face="Garamond" size="5">I can only beat the crap ones now. Any half-decent player is beyond me since the EoF nerf-fest. I'm 70 75 AAs, have mostly fabled and about 1/2 masters 1/2 adept III. Anyone with similar gear doing well against Waredens and can share some tips?</font><div></div>

[Daim]

I'm only 25 on my brusier but I do all my of skills that dont involve knockdowns/stuns then I wait for the heal animation and use one, then he will heal again and I use crash by then typically he's low enough to finish off.  There's really no formula they are just very tough.  I dont know how much that helps with the level difference but i tried<div></div>

[Devast]

im pretty much all master. missing 5 spells between 57 and 60, two of those are CA's and 2 are stances. so im not missing much. only pound and uppercut. offensive stance is a must, you have to produce as much dps as possible.if they are a good healer then just trying to go all out early on will not work. be patient and just melee down the warden with auto attack. the warden should fall back on the defensive even from auto attack and have to keep themselves healed. and just wait for the right timing to use ko combo and all your high damaging ca's. and time savage bruising well, it does a lot of damage.drags helps immensely in pvp, and if used at the right time can help dps more against a warden and win the fight. over all healers are just getting more and more powerful with miracles and the such, they are fights i generally avoid solo.id just keep at it until you find how to do it right. i can win sometimes and other times i lose, healers are a swing and a miss. i have a harder time with wardens than furies because of their emergencies and the warden's buffs that heal them after they die. it is all about timing and catching the warden off guard.<div></div>

[Selioth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Devaster wrote:im pretty much all master. missing 5 spells between 57 and 60, two of those are CA's and 2 are stances. so im not missing much. only pound and uppercut. offensive stance is a must, you have to produce as much dps as possible.if they are a good healer then just trying to go all out early on will not work. be patient and just melee down the warden with auto attack. the warden should fall back on the defensive even from auto attack and have to keep themselves healed. and just wait for the right timing to use ko combo and all your high damaging ca's. and time savage bruising well, it does a lot of damage.drags helps immensely in pvp, and if used at the right time can help dps more against a warden and win the fight. over all healers are just getting more and more powerful with miracles and the such, they are fights i generally avoid solo.id just keep at it until you find how to do it right. i can win sometimes and other times i lose, healers are a swing and a miss. i have a harder time with wardens than furies because of their emergencies and the warden's buffs that heal them after they die. it is all about timing and catching the warden off guard.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Devaster stop hording master heals and give me one</div>

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV>heh need one master only and thats kidney punch</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Healers in general are a pain to kill , i find defilers the worst by a mile just cant get em to run oop with canabalize + vaults hat + ft they are bloody evil and to top it all of you get a dog chewing on your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A Well played warden , well lets just say forget it its not worth it lol go for the easy bait <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Greavous]

<P>All hail to the Kidney Punch.</P> <P>Wardens and Furys. I have the unfortunate pleasure of being surrounded by both.</P> <P></P> <P>Bottom line!</P> <P><BR></P> <P>Blow your load early and its all over.</P> <P>You have to set them up. Remember we do crazy damage with auto attack and they can't ignore it. Its got to be healed. If you know what damage they do and buff against it you don't notice they are hitting u. Always fight under blistering Fists.</P> <P>Don't throw up KO Combo till its time to KO them HELLO!!!!</P> <P>Frustrates the hell out of them when u only stun them when they are healing.</P> <P>Remember they can only cast when not moving. Funny as hell watching a fury/warden running around feared while your preparing a plate of savage bruising.</P> <P>Don't forget to use Oppress. Might not hit but stops that heal cast in its tracks.</P> <P>If you can't burn them down, Stop.</P> <P>Don't chew up power till you need to.</P> <P>Nothing bums a Druid more than when you show them what a real heal is all about. If you use potions use them early. Don't wait till you need them.</P> <P>If you think you can finish them, don't flinch. Go hard and don't forget drag in there too.</P> <P>I know u get more from Callous Stomp if u use it right after a knockdown but in duels I never do. I can fit 1 sometimes 2 other smacks up the side of the head before I need to use another stun/knockback. Don't spam those, time them.</P> <P><BR></P> <P>I love fighting Druids. You have to be on your game but once you understand them they is your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</P>

[Ramglob]

I don't mean to be a smart [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] but you don't 90% of the time and you certainly don't attack them if you are alone or trying to get in a quick gank!!!!!!!!!  You don't beat even con healers 90% of the time so why try.   There is not another class in the game that we can't beat 1 VS 1 so why pick this fight.  Please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about because I do.   When you target them immed look at buff bar.  If they are a healer, plain and simple don't engage them in a fair fight because the majority of the time you can not out dps their heals.  My bruiser is 100% mastered and I can't out dps a warden / Fury's heals.  Find a ranger or zerker or swashy or pally or conj or wiz or warlock to kill.  Healers are not our specialty. Starskey <div></div>

[Greavous]

<DIV>  <P>Sorry I must be missing something. Who said 90% of the time? The question was how to beat them not <SPAN>whether</SPAN> or not to fight them. Just because a class is hard to fight doesn't mean u leave them. I only duel those that are gonna give me a run, or all your doing is showing off. Some of us require there to be a contest to get the rush. All mastered means nothing. I am as well. Its how you use what you have that matters. I'm also fully fabled out. I could have bought this toon, I could have piggybacked a raiding guild, or I could have blood sweet and tears'd it out to get to this stage learning my toon inside and out. Mastered out means nothing sorry.</P> <P>You say the majority of the time you cant out dps their heals? Then set them up so your not. If your trying to out dps their heals that may be your problem</P> <P>Oh btw I do mean to be a smart [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</P> <P> </P></DIV>

[Ramglob]

<div></div>Ahhhh.. I did not mean to touch a nerve.  When I stated I did not mean to be a smart [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that was not a jab!!!!  I was simply stating that I elect to not fight them on a PVP server (where it actually costs you something).   My experience comes from a PVP server where you actually use strategy and your opponents think.  Sorry I offended you.  Please go back to your dueling!!!!!  Must be fun to know how good you really play the game from your staged duels.  Ohhhh.... I elected to be a smart [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as well.  CheersStarskey<div></div><p>Message Edited by Ramglobal on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:26 AM</span>

[ramglobaltx]

Come to pvp server imo.  Duel = Lame <div></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ramglobaltx wrote:<BR>Come to pvp server imo.  Duel = Lame<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Your only lvl 35. You are missing many AA's and some huge DPS spells. Specifically knockout combo. </P> <P>Wardens are killable. I go pure offensive w all offensive gear 100% masters w 100% eof dam aa's. I always start off w aoe taunt to interupt thier cast. Aoe taunts is faster then anything but an instant spell. From there i blow my load. knockout combo followed by everything i got. Few healers can take that abuse especially when chain stuned th entire time being ~30 secs of me jsut wailing on them. If they have not died by this point then mezz them. If it sticks you already won. If thier resist is to high. You got to wear them down . The only class that is able to withstand this assault is a shaman specifcally defiler. I end up just dev fisting thier pet which is like 50% of thier dps and takes like 3 minutes to rebuff =p. and just whittle the healer down. The new power tap adornments are wonderful for healer duels. Once i get enough mana to try again i blow my load again usually they are not expecting another on slaught again and dont have every heal running thier emergency heals are down and in short so is the healer. emergency heal = 15 min knockout combo = 5 min.</P>

[Ramglob]

Yes, we are level 35 but both of us have been pvping since day 1 and both of us have hit master at level 70 and have been in / around / watched / witnessed / sneaked a peek / and obtained video of Healer fights.    On our level 70's we also have grouped / rode / piggybacked off a very well played Bruiser in our guild.    It doesn't seem to matter if it is a bruiser, monk, sk, zerkers, guardians, or pallies....healers are a very tough fight for us fighters / tanks.  Now having said that the bruiser is the best equipped at taking down a healer (fury, warden)etc.... but it is still a struggle.  My opinions are based from a PVP perspective.<div></div>

[Gungo]

I never said it wasn't hard. But it is tremendously easier then before EOF. Healers biggest weakness is thier lack of dps. Thier nukes in pvp are highly resistant. The only true dps from a warden comes from thier dogs.  Which do fairly little. Like i said the new Power tap adornments means you are draining the healers power alot more. They are long boring fights and while a wardens big instant heals are gotten early on our big dps spells do not come till we at least hit 50+. Once you are fully t7 mastered and adorned w alot of the new DPS aa's our burst dps is much faster then before.

[Devast]

okay i can no longer solo healers post-eof. the new AA lines and all the decent gear they have now makes it impossible. back pre-eof a healer had to be very very good and in fantastic gear with all masters to beat me. now even semi-decent healers are not killable.on levels of difficult from hardest to easiest:1. Defiler/mystic2. warden3. templar4. fury5. inquisitor<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

hehe off topic try inviting a few freinds over with some beers and then get 2 templars to dual !!

[TheSummoned]

Okey, 1st thing you want to look at is what the warden does, not what you can do. You already know your options. They can Sandstorm, which is a KB/stun when hit. They mostly have Fire/Cold/Magic spells. They have their Wolfs, which can be FD'd off (unless that's been changed by now). They have incredibly fast heals and are one of, if not the best endurance healers. All healers also have fairly high resists, so mezz/fear is highly unlikely to land. They have cures, which are very handy to cure that DoT, debuff, w/e. A good PvPer will also carry around stun/stifle/root etc, pots with them. If you only auto attack, they'll prolly get you pretty low on health, unless you have some good resists (why I pointed out their damage type), while they themselves can conserve power quite good. Bruisers can't do that. Bruiser is one of the classes that struggles the most concerning power. All that considered, your best bet if you catch a warden unprepared is to go all out and as soon as you see him casting, group taunt (if it sticks) and continue to pummel imo. This is your best bet, though I VERY much doubt you'll be successful this way. The other thing is to try and act scared, run away, then turn and surprise him with a flurry of blows while his guard is down. Also try to position him near a cliff <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> All things considered, a well played healer will very rarely lose to a bruiser. <div></div>

[Greavous]

<P>Haha try and act scared and run away? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</P> <P> </P> <P>Have you thought that perhaps it's just that you havent got them sorted out yet. It's alright. You can't be the best at everything dude. But act scared and run away?</P> <P> </P> <P>Are you a gnome?</P><p>Message Edited by Greavous on <span class=date_text>01-13-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:45 PM</span>

[Owa]

<font face="Garamond" size="5">Hm. I should have specified I meant PvP - blue-server duels are a whole other thing. Yeah anyway- since EoF, it's pretty pointless taking on healers one v one - even a group of 70s can have trouble taking a decent 70 Warden down now. Anyway, it's a moot point for me at this stage 'cause I decided to stop playing - aside from a bunch of guild and server related issues, the Combat Update and specifically the use of miracles in PvP pretty much killed the game for me. I will leave you with this though - the only people who think being fully fabled/mastered is not important are those who are fully fabled/mastered and think their 'player skill' is what's winning 'em all those fights. You can talk about player skill all you wish but if you're in legendary/Adept 3s and  you've got your opponent almost dead but not quite, you better believe that having those master spells and raid gear suddenly starts looking like a pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing good deal. The amount of times I've <i>almost</i> beat down a Warden/Fury etc only to run out of steam when they're at 10% health because I'm missing nearly all my offensive T7 masters...Still pisses me off even though I've quit <span>:smileymad:</span></font><div></div>

[Devast]

im nearly fully mastered and ill tell you right now against a class with high resists like a warden, it doesnt help as much as some would think. especially if they are well geared with fabled stuff.i wear 4 pieces of pvp armor, old pvp leggings, and the rest legendary. i wear all treasured eof collection reward jewelry with some claymore line quest rewards thrown in. and plenty of crappy players now have the new fabled pvp armor which is very nice. ive seen an assassin with a full set who is one of the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]tiest players ive ever seen, so it isnt that hard to gear up anymore.healers are just out of the question right now. ive tried burst dps against them, but they have abilities to avoid death or wards etc. ive tried going slowly and waiting out the power because i dont have a problem conserving power with potions and other stuff, but it just doesnt work. ive given up on trying to solo or 1v1 healers.<div></div>

[Lildebbie]

at 52 i can beat them most of the time by making sure i don't shoot my load too early.  keep auto attacking and throw in a debuff here and there.  after a while, they will start trying to nuke, then it's stun time.  after the 3rd heal i start to pour it on.  you'll know when they are actually in trouble because they start to move a lot.  that's when i try to get a stomp on em and i open the floodgates.  good resists are a must though.  if they are landing high percentages on their spells, you're done.  your only chance is to debuff chain stun and heal when necessary.  that's a VERY iffy fight with a decent warden.  especially if they get a root to land.  that's just my 2cp

[TheSummoned]

<blockquote><hr>Greavous wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Haha try and act scared and run away? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</p> <p>Have you thought that perhaps it's just that you havent got them sorted out yet. It's alright. You can't be the best at everything dude. But act scared and run away?</p> <p>Are you a gnome?</p><p>Message Edited by Greavous on <span class="date_text">01-13-2007</span> <span class="time_text">03:45 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>PvP isn't the same as duels, remember that. The "run away scared" tactic allowed me to separate and beat whole groups that would be chasing after me or at least made them evac.<div></div>

[Greavous]

<DIV>  <P>Fair enough Summoned but can we swap the term “act scared and run away” to “ A tactical repositioning and kiting of a poor unfortunate? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P></DIV>

[TheSummoned]

<blockquote><hr>Greavous wrote:<div></div> <div>  <p>Fair enough Summoned but can we swap the term “act scared and run away” to “ A tactical repositioning and kiting of a poor unfortunate? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></div><hr></blockquote>Whatever rocks your boat <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Devast]

so you are going to kite a warden who has the potential to have 25% in-combat speed thanks to the AA line and only needing 3 pieces of the new pvp armor? i can only reach 5% in-combat speed, so im a bit baffled as to how kiting a warden will work. and from experience, it doesnt work. my old trick for beating them was burst dps or using terrain to fear/knock them off a cliff. i cant knock them around at all anymore thanks to the new AA tree. and fear rarely lands to be worth while.<div></div>

[firedawg9]

<DIV>The only tactic that works consistently for me is to sonic fist, drag, jump off a cliff, deploy parachute pack, and laugh as he falls to his death and you float to safety.  Other than that just run from wardens imo.</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> firedawg911 wrote:<BR> <DIV>The only tactic that works consistently for me is to sonic fist, drag, jump off a cliff, deploy parachute pack, and laugh as he falls to his death and you float to safety.  Other than that just run from wardens imo.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hahaha thats the same way as i do it ! [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you have given out my uber leet strat now !!!!!!</P> <P>tbh wardens just avoid them im fully masters (without Kidney Blow) and just cannot beat em anymore i tried about 50 times over the weekend with loads of different strats  , the warden i was fighting is a good friend and we were trying to see the best way to take em out and even when he was going easy he could win no prbs its really annoying .. full burn and interrupts nope , stuns not a chance  , take em off guard .. good yea but HOW ? doesnt matter if we get em whilst they are buffing we still dont do enough damage to burn them before there hot heals em back to 100 %</P> <P>top strat works a charm <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P></DIV>

[Devast]

with their cheat death instants and emergency heals, if is near impossible to catch them off guard and be able to burn them down. the only class that i think would have a chance nowadays would be a fully mastered and well geared swashy with engarde because that ability is horse [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in pvp.<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devaster wrote:<BR>with their cheat death instants and emergency heals, if is near impossible to catch them off guard and be able to burn them down. the only class that i think would have a chance nowadays would be a fully mastered and well geared swashy with engarde because that ability is horse [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in pvp.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>A brigand or scout will own fury/wardens with ease but a brigand will do it faster</P> <P>i.e invis , cheap shot , thugs , restrain , rake + devitilze + dispatch + double up (wham 50 % health gone and about 8 debuffs on them)</P> <P>then the brig will just cunning + dps mod  , stun + autoattack them to death .. fight lasts normally about 15 seconds.</P> <P> </P> <P>Engarde is easy just run away till it expires <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Devast]

<div></div>running away from swahies doesnt usually end well. i try fd'ing and landing a mez, but if i try to run i just get hit by engarde on their ranged attacks and ranged CA's. aside from healers they are the next toughest fight.granted there arent a lot of good swashies, only 1 kicks my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on nagafen and the rest suck.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Devaster on <span class=date_text>01-15-2007</span> <span class=time_text>05:54 AM</span>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devaster wrote:<BR> running away from swahies doesnt usually end well. i try fd'ing and landing a mez, but if i try to run i just get hit by engarde on their ranged attacks and ranged CA's. aside from healers they are the next toughest fight.<BR><BR>granted there arent a lot of good swashies, only 1 kicks my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on nagafen and the rest suck.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Devaster on <SPAN class=date_text>01-15-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:54 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>wow i thought engaurde only work when you are attacking them though ? i thought they reverse/parry all your hits and you do damage to yourself so the only way this would land is if your blocking his ranged correct ? so cant you regen and run it off ?</P> <P> </P> <P>30 second buff<BR><BR>100% chance to deal damage when<FONT color=#ffff00> you or your target Parries, Ripostes, or Blocks<BR></FONT><BR>15% chance to deal damage when you use a CA<BR><BR>Adept I damage is 330-550 (555 str)<BR><BR>3 minute recast</P><p>Message Edited by DarkMirrax on <span class=date_text>01-15-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:03 PM</span>

[Devast]

the amount of damage a swashy can do with engarde up using ranged is a lot. either way im going to take a beating and if im already engaged i wont get any regen so running is out of the question. its like trying to run from a ranger only to give the ranger max dps when using ranged.<div></div>

[Ameniel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ramglobal wrote:<BR>I don't mean to be a smart [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] but you don't 90% of the time and you certainly don't attack them if you are alone or trying to get in a quick gank!!!!!!!!!  You don't beat even con healers 90% of the time so why try.   There is not another class in the game that we can't beat 1 VS 1 so why pick this fight.  Please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about because I do.   When you target them immed look at buff bar.  If they are a healer, plain and simple don't engage them in a fair fight because the majority of the time you can not out dps their heals.  My bruiser is 100% mastered and I can't out dps a warden /<FONT color=#ccff00> Fury's</FONT> heals.  Find a ranger or zerker or swashy or pally or conj or wiz or warlock to kill.  Healers are not our specialty.<BR><BR>Starskey<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wardens I can see being a problem, and fyi to everyone wardens and furies are two different stories. Furys are much easier, although the same strategy should apply to all. Even though I know Ill most likely lose against a warden ill still fight them for the practice. And contrary to the post above, it is worthwhile to fight healers. A few weeks ago I killed a lvl 70 fury in SS, a destroyer will pretty much all fabled gear(I looked him up on eq2players later). Me, in comparison, a lvl 68 bruiser with ad3s and legendary/treasured gear. And guess what, he dropped me over 6 plat. If I had seen him and said 'omg thats a healer I better not fight him' I wouldve never got his token, infamy, but most importantly his plat. Moral of the story: if in doubt, try to kill em anyway lol...</P> <P>Anyway, like other people have said, dont blow your big dmg stuff in the beginning. Against druids, this is what Ive found works. Start with autoattack and some minor CAs...let them nuke you....after a while you'll need to use your self heal. At some point theyll start slacking on their healing and try to nuke you down. Slap on stone deaf, and after you start absorbing the nukes, throw some dmg CAs. Right when u do that they'll start to heal, throw Oppress at em, following that put KO on and time your stun/kb(iron/steel fist and callous stomp and uppercut) to interrupt them. If they dont resist your oppress and all your stuns/kb hit, it should just be a matter of burning down their last few hp after you throw your interrupts/kbs. The flaw is when you go in for the kill and either oppress or one of your stun/kb misses. A skilled healer will use that opportunity to start healing and once they do, don't even try to burn them down, just let off a bit and try to start it over(if you have enough power and health left). </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Ameniel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkMirrax wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>wow i thought engaurde only work when you are attacking them though ? i thought they reverse/parry all your hits and you do damage to yourself so the only way this would land is if your blocking his ranged correct ? so cant you regen and run it off ?</P> <P> </P> <P>30 second buff<BR><BR>100% chance to deal damage when<FONT color=#ffff00> you or your target Parries, Ripostes, or Blocks<BR></FONT><BR>15% chance to deal damage when you use a CA<BR><BR>Adept I damage is 330-550 (555 str)<BR><BR>3 minute recast</P> <P>Message Edited by DarkMirrax on <SPAN class=date_text>01-15-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:03 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nope, its not only when u attack them, its when they attack you also. Its a no-win situation, They can cast Daring(or inspired daring or whatever that crazyass short duration proc buff they got) and En garde, and if you try to run theyll just snare you lol. Theyll then attack you for huge dmg with daring, and if you block/deflect anything en garde will hit. En garde hits when they block or when you block. It's basically a nonstop lunge reversal for 36 seconds. So it doesnt leave us with a whole lot of options. </P> <P><BR> </P>