We're really not as bad of a tank as everyone seems to think..

[Cozumel]

I've got average to "slightly" above average gear... a few fabled, but mostly EoF drops, and relic boots... Nothing majjjjorly impressive or otherwise unattainable by anyone else.Managed to play the MT in a 5 person group in CoV last night.  Was me (70 brusier), a 70 fury+70 templar, a 68 SK, and 70 Necro.  The Necro dropped for the last named and was replaced by a 70 warlock... which we were still quite easily able to defeat.I've only got a few masters, my mitigation was 3300, and health 7.7k.Only real problem I had was holding agro with 2+ mobs... but thats to be expected (especially with the Warlock).Anyway, fear not my friends, we are not as gimped as you might think! -- Coz<div></div>

[Zelkova]

<div></div>Last I checked, everyone knew we could tank heroics. That's not much of an issue. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by brekehan on <span class=date_text>12-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:31 PM</span>

[LokiHellsson]

<P>I started a Guardian, just for the heck of it.  Now and then, I play a friends' level 70 semi-fabled Guardian when we need a tank with 5K mitigation and 9K health (self buffed).</P> <P>Anyhoo, the baby guardian teamed with my mentored down Fury to flay the mobs in BB.  The guardian with his "hit me and hate me" hold-the-line line of CA's could really hang on to aggro so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] well.  Just give him a chance to run Assault twice and multiple encounters each with multiple mobs, would stay on him while Ring of Fire was proc'ing and killing them.  It was quite different from pairing with the Bruiser.  Now, the Bruiser could seriously damage the mobs and the Guardian could not, so duo-ing harder zones with names will really stink with the Guardian, in some respects.  I'm thinking Zerker might be best of both worlds.  Lotta DPS, higher mitigation.  Only thing he really lacks compared to Bruiser is the FD and self-heal (which is nice, even with a healer around).</P>

[gelinx]

It is sad some times to be underestimated as a tank, but it only happens with PUGs which I don't like anyways. With my guild group, we just burn [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] down, with me mt'in sometimes. One thing that helps us alot with tanking, is not to spam the moves that come with knockdowns, but to time them for maximum proficency. For example, if I am with a druid and I get hit for spike damage, I will have one of my knockdowns up to keep him down for a few for the HoT to fill me back up. We also go well with an enchanter, in which their stuns on top of our knockdown lead to good times. For raid tanking, I only seem myself as I am now, which is an off tank and dps. I've already accepted the fact that I won't be the mt, and I did not make my guy to be one. If I wanted to I would of grabbed my guardian's last 9 levels. But my bruiser is so much more fun. <div></div>

[DisturbedMagg]

<DIV>Yeh, the major issue has always been with epics more then heriocs, although ive seen the odd post of ppl whinning about not being able to solo this, and group MT this zone etc etc. Ive tanked all current t7 zones since the combat revemp, have no complaints, and pretty soon im goning to start recroding on fraps to show ppl it isnt as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] bad as they make it out. As someone said i too consider myself an off-tank/DPS (kinda) in a raid situation, groups i tank, and to be honest if a plate tnak is there i end up tanking anyway, since i dont even begin to watch my DPS in groups, and i have as yet to be whinned at by the tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Otherday had a plate tank on COV, He went Ld, logged back in and was outside with lockout, i had 2 healers and me, we trio'd the rest of the zone from the first "invisible" blocked door. Was a pain, wasnt as fast as i would have liked but we cleared the zone, now tell me how heriocs arnt tankable by us.</DIV>

[Grimchaos87]

Just got done tanking labs for the first time with my bruiser.  You can look up Grimchaos on Nektulos to see my gear is nice, but not the best out there.  All my T7 spells are masters, still missing some of my T6, but def stance is a master.  In any case labs was cake.  I didnt have any problems with any of the mobs (other then those [Removed for Content] that come in sets of 2 with a crushing AoE, hurts like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]).   My MT group setup was Warden, Mystic, Dirge, Templar, Assassin, and me.  With this group I was at about 4800 mit on any trash fight (thanks to the wardens mit buffs) and 5500 on any named for atleast the first 3:50 of the fight.  I had a lil trouble keeping agro when we got adds, but the three amigos never targetted anyone but me, and vyemm stuck to me like glue, I never even burned rescue on him.  All in all the healers said I was cake to hold up.  once they got me in the green they barely had to do anything to keep me there.  I'm going to have to look at the parse to see what I actually avoided, but I think it was a decent amount.  In any case brawlers can tank T7 raids, labs is the easiest zone, but I honestly think I could tank many other T7 zones.<div></div>

[Novusod]

<div><blockquote><hr>gelinx wrote:One thing that helps us alot with tanking, is not to spam the moves that come with knockdowns, but to time them for maximum proficency. For example, if I am with a druid and I get hit for spike damage, I will have one of my knockdowns up to keep him down for a few for the HoT to fill me back up. We also go well with an enchanter, in which their stuns on top of our knockdown lead to good times. For raid tanking, I only seem myself as I am now, which is an off tank and dps. I've already accepted the fact that I won't be the mt, and I did not make my guy to be one. If I wanted to I would of grabbed my guardian's last 9 levels. But my bruiser is so much more fun. <div></div><hr></blockquote>You know if brawlers could stun epics like they stun heroics we would be raid tanking just as often as guardians. Stuning is half my defence when doing heroics. I am not saying all brawlers should be able to stun the epics. Just the main tank would be throwing stuns. Just one simple line would need to be added  to our stun lines to fix brawler tanking.Under where it says "does not affect epic" add the exception "unless targeted." </div>

[Gungo]

<DIV>We have gotten alot better since EoF Release. Since EoF release we got 12% base defelction and some mitigation, but what really helped is SoE did 3 passes so far on Epic accuracy. There is still the occasional epic that just totally ignores our avoidance and i would of still liked a base 20% uncontested deflection. But most zones had a decent pass to gimpify acuracy. To be straight is was not just a brawler issue with epics on EoF release. It was a complete avodiance issue.</DIV>

[Devast]

everyone has been having trouble since eof, and i still think mit and resists have some crazy scale. just pump that avoidance up over 70% and should be all good. the only real difference once you get to that point is how well a bruiser can take a hit compared to a plate tank. its just a difference in hp's/mit, if mit even means anything at all right now.<div></div>

[LokiHellsson]

<P>Timing your stuns and keeping them for when you need them is a very good idea.  And, in a good situation, Bruisers are good tanks.  It's when pulling multiple groups of mobs that it sucks to be a Bruiser.  When overpulls happen, Guardians build hate every time they get hit.  Paladin's get Amends to help them with hate.  But a Bruiser has only Rumble.  And once you've used the Slap Around and Savage Bruising, it's difficult to keep the mobs under control and they wind up peeling off on healers or dps classes.  Sure having a Coercer multiplying hate or Assassin dumping hate on you helps, but it's not the same as generating hate for the simple act of being hit.  And that's the key to a Guardian's success.  In fact, if a Guardians' avoidance goes too high, he doesn't proc Inflaming Defense and he has more trouble holding aggro. </P> <P>Ran to the bottom of SoS today with 70 bruiser, 70 Fury, 69 Fury, 63 Conj, 66 Ranger and 70 Wizard.  Plenty of firepower, plenty of healing.  Absolutely could not hold 3-5 of the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ^^^ frogs on the bruiser.  Lost the ranger and conjuror a couple of times, wizard got attacked, so did healers.  With a 70 Guardian, I held the mobs locked on the whole time.</P> <P>With a single group of mobs on me, I can usually hold the aggro if my group-mates are not actively trying to take aggro away.  With multiple groups it gets very very difficult very quickly.  If you've got some special techniques to deal with multiple groups, I'd love to hear it.</P> <P> </P>

[Novusod]

<div><blockquote><hr>LokiHellsson wrote:<div></div><p>With a single group of mobs on me, I can usually hold the aggro if my group-mates are not actively trying to take aggro away.  With multiple groups it gets very very difficult very quickly.  If you've got some special techniques to deal with multiple groups, I'd love to hear it.</p> <hr></blockquote>A Bruiser cannot tank like a Guardian. The "special techniques" require a little bit of insanity on the part of the Bruiser. When you see an add comming and you don't have a taunt use your ranged attack. If a mob is beating on your healer run over and punch in the back of the head. Use your mez and even fear if you have to. Use your heal and cure simply to build hate. Dealing with multiple groups is not a clean fight for a Bruiser. I get a lot of "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!!" spam in group chat because of all the chaos but I know what I am doing and they do not becuase they have been spoiled by Guardians. Usually one mad encounter like that is enough to get me booted from the tank role. The only thing that limits my insanity is a willing group and lag because I think I can actually do more.</div>