A Bruisers "Role?"

[Rayche]

<DIV>So I did a pretty fun dungeon crawl through Ruins of Varsoon last night in a group with a Berserker, Monk, Defiler, Wizard and Myself (Then 31 Bruiser).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a question about grouping and roles, but I'll give some background first.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Zerker was level 31 as well, but wearing mostly AQ gear, while I'm wearing full rare (Cuirboilli) armor, and crappy jewellery.</DIV> <DIV>Every time we got an add (It usually hit the defiler first) I would smack it and get it hitting me until I could either get a heal or until the Berserker pulled it off me. (I wouldn't taunt it, just do some melee swings to get it a little angry at me, nothing a taunt or two couldn't clear up for the tank.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Wizard whined every time I pulled aggro on something and kept saying "You're here for DPS, you shouldn't be off-tanking, and at one point the Zerker said "I'm about ready to just leave"...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So to try and be a team player I assisted the tank and just laid down DPS as much as possible. Well, the next time we got an add it went like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><ME> says to the group: There's and add beating on the shaman.<BR>*WHAM*<BR>*CRUNCH*<BR>(Looks around to see the Berserker blissfully clobbering its original target)<BR><ME> says to the group: This is one of those moments where I would normally turn and taunt it off the healer.<BR>*CRUSH*<BR>*BIFF*<BR>(Healer at 2/3 health)<BR><ME> says to the group: Because it appears nobody really cares that the healer is getting the snot kicked out of him.<BR>*MAIM*<BR>*DESTROY*<BR>(Healer at 1/2 health, and failing to channel ANYTHING in the way of a heal for the tank or himself)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerker kills first mob and turns to the next one and we live...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>THe ironic thing is, about 20 minutes later the Zerker has to go and take care of her child, and the Wizard evacs. So it's just the Monk, Shaman and myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We actually killed easier without those two, and the Shaman said it was WAY easier to keep me healed than the Berserker. (I even ran around in Offensive stance everywhere except for the nameds.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So... since I play a Mystic 99% of the time, and the Bruiser "Role" is fairly new to me, I didn't want to get into a heated debate with this Berserker and Wizard over my "Role" in the group. I know as a Mystic I don't give a rip WHO pulls the adds out of my butt, I just want them OFF me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's our Role? Should we NOT off tank when we're in the DPS position?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[neon_24]

I think you just ran into a classic case of people not knowing what Bruisers are capable of, i would shrug it off and keep on keepin on.Remember there are allot of morons playing this game.<div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

In a dungeon crawl, unless its some really higher level area or multi mobs are coming every single fight, ANY tank can do it perfectly fine.The only times brawlers are having trouble is in the Epic and higher level named situations (nameds being over lvl 70).So what it really boils down to is: Who has the better gear, and who has the better skill as a player. I'd almost put skill as a player ahead of gear, depending on the lack of skill some folks have... it's better to have a tank you have to heal more, instead of a tank that doesn't pull well, handle adds, etc.And for the love of god, if there's adds and you have MULTIPLE tanks, then the best possible thing is to have them attacking ANY other fighter instead of a wizard or priest or even scout (they need a lot of positional stuff).Since I'm often grouped with my brother who plays a zerker (very well mind you), I let him be tank, and pull down the DPS and offtank. It is a very valid role, those two were just being nimrods.<div></div>

[Novusod]

The role of the bruiser is really up to the healer in the group. Not all healers can keep two (three if monk grabed agro too) tanks alive and an agro grabbing wizard. Maybe the zerker was complaining you did not FD when she targeting the add but I think the zerker was just jealous you stole her thunder. I have a 56 warden who easily keeps two tanks alive and we were taking on Brownie town.<div></div>

[Shidonya]

Just use an AoE, you'll still be targeted on MT mob but usually you'll get the agro with just that amount of damage. Range on your AoE's isn't that big so you shouldn't pull agro on a mob outside of encounter unless it is a non-agro mob inside AoE range. Many times I've done this with our Zerker and it's been fine. Just use caution with non-agros around.

[Rayche]

<DIV>Thanks for the tips and the clarification. I had no trouble handling the adds, but I don't like to be percieved as someone that doesn't listen to people or play as a team. (I also wasn't sure if I could tank this stuff if the Berserker threw a fit and left.)</DIV>

[Risos]

<DIV>Usually when people get upset like that when a bruiser does something they have no idea what they are talking about...  A bruiser really has no ground breaking abilities that could actually cause enough chaos to hurt the group and cause people to leave, especially in casual grouping.  The only thing I can think of that you could do wrong is to fear a  social mob into other groups of mobs causing multiple adds, and any sane bruiser wont do that in the first place as he would be the first to die.</DIV>

[Etchii]

<P>You did everything perfect, no reason why any mob should be attacking the priest/mage when theres a fighter in group with no agro.  When i'm grouping and not MT i watch for adds.  No one tells me to do it, I just do it on my own. </P> <P> </P> <P>I've had many a healer thank me in /tell when I pull a mob or two off of them while the MT is busy or hasn't noticed.  Your MT might have been upset, but i bet the healer was happy with ya.  </P>

[eyes007]

<P>They both sound like they've had their way of running things for so long they don't know any different, call it ignorant if you will or they're complete noobs in EQ2 and have played other games as tanks which thinks that qualifies them as supremely knowledge-bound.</P> <P>The wizard needs to mind their own business if they don't know what tanking is at any level, the fact that they weren't drawing any hate mean they were neglecting THEIR job of dps, but mostly, the serker is useless, I hold no respect for a tank that can't control aggro, single target is cake, even a noob can do that, a tank to respect is someone who can maintain full area hate, high dps, power regen and a peripheral view of the battle none of which this pathetic berserker showed any skill at.</P> <P>The only thing that impressed me was seeing the baby needed attention, so she isn't a complete idiot.</P> <P>EDIT: Oh I also forgot to say hold onto your guns friend, a mystic playing a bruiser and you already know this much shows how good you really are, I would group with you anytime <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Same for your defiler, they recognized you as the one to trust, thats important too, build that respect, it will help us all in the long run <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by eyes007 on <span class=date_text>12-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:51 AM</span>

[djinnz]

<DIV>any player worth thier sort will get agro off the healer, the tank should have done it, failing that you (as you did) failing that the mage should have pulled it back and rooted it. if i was the shaman (i play both defiler and bruiser) id have shouted at the tank once, then next time id have ae feared bringing half the zone running to us, let them forget to off tank then <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Kri]

I would have gone for the off-tanking role as well in that situation. I normally get to be the OT when I play my Bruiser. When I play my zerker it's rare to lose aggro but when I do I would be happy to have a Brawler pick up the slack. Same thing when I play my Warden. Being beaten to a pulp because the zerker is too pig headed to let anyone off-tank isn't exactly my forte. One of the advantages of suffering from altitis is that you get to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. Perhaps you should have suggested that to the zerker and the Wiz <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Shipwreck_GPA]

<P>Bah. Sounds like he was one of those solo-only types. Any time a fighter is peeling mobs off the healer or casters, it's a good thing (compared to letting them beat on them, of course). If he was struggling to hold aggro, he should have been glad of the help. You are all on the same team while grouped, after all. Some people forget that.</P> <P>And aggro control should be his top priority. He is a tank, his first job is to control aggro. It is why he is in the group.</P> <P>Look at it this way, you didn't change the mind of the Wizzie and Zerker, but you DID open the eyes of the other 2.  I think you proved your point admirably, by your actions. </P> <P>Loved the comments, too.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Cocytus]

<DIV>I agree with Lothous. Sohbec my 70 bruiser is often laughed it when I offer to tank. It's hilarious. People are just ignorant to what can and cannot tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even my 70 swash tanks like a champ (not in raids though of course, except that one no-fighter-tank mob in EOF). I've been joining alot of pickup instance groups lately cause I need money and 70% of the time he has more hp, mit, and avoidance than the "tank". But alot of pickup tanks aren't TOO well geared. Nice when you get a good one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just find it funny stealing aggro. I don't tank intentionally in these situations but it's funny to do. :p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Same thing on my bruiser - generally I have better all around stats than whatever plate tank is in the group and sometimes I get [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed at for taking aggro. As if I can't tank. Bruiser tanks ftw... /grumble</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cocytus on <span class=date_text>12-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:25 PM</span>

[DisturbedMagg]

<DIV>I hate taking pick up groups for two simple reasons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) They always expect a plate tank, and therefore i enter as DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) I always peel and end up tanking whole zone better then the orignal tank - The guy just needs to get over himself</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tracor3k99]

We tank just fine, in fact when I enter a group with my 70 bruiser I'm more often then not the tank, even if we do have a plate tank, simply because, well lol I'm not sure why, I mean I am far to cute and cuddly to be hit.. shouldn't that be the big dumb tin can' job? The only one problem we have with tanking is we don't have as good a taunt as the plate tanks. If we get a group of mobs and the the wizard decides it's time to ae nuke the hell out fo things, more often then not he/she will be the one tanking it/them. As for off tanking and going in to dps mode, if my healer is being hit, the wizard or whoever else can go to hell if they suggest I'm not to get the mob off my healer.... The Bruiser, when this game first came out, was described as the tank that had the <b>punchin' power</b> to get the mob off of anyone in the group and I've lived up to that responsibility since day one of eq2 with my Bruiser.. don't like it? to bad.The AshAshen Fury2nd lvl 50 Bruiser on Lucan<div></div>

[MakhailSamma]

<DIV>A bruiser can tank as well as a Zerker in most cases, sounds to me like the zerker you were playing with sucked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Skill > class everyday of the week.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hell, I have had to take over tanking in a group with my swashy alt if/when the should-be tank is just sucking and I get tells from the healer saying how much smoother things went when I have done so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again: Skill > class/gear everytime.</DIV>