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[Klyte]

<DIV>Looks like we are getting a little love back <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[masoninc61]

Incase people were wondering:- Monk and Bruiser defensive stances now have a minimum deflection percentage of 7.5%.- Monk and Bruiser defensive stances now have increased mitigation percentage from 15% to 20%Also dev said we'd be getting some uncontested avoidance, dunno if its in this update or what.<div></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> masoninc61 wrote:<BR>Incase people were wondering:<BR><BR>- Monk and Bruiser defensive stances now have a minimum deflection percentage of 7.5%.<BR>- Monk and Bruiser defensive stances now have increased mitigation percentage from 15% to 20%<BR><BR>Also dev said we'd be getting some uncontested avoidance, dunno if its in this update or what.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The uncontested avoidance is the 7.5% minimum (ala app3 def stance) to max of 12% in master 1 stance

[Madmoon]

Darn - guess I will have to get rid of the sign on my chest saying Stick Weapon Here...

[DisturbedMagg]

<DIV>Still want more then 12% uncontested avoidance. I garantee from what i was working out from my current parses im still gonna get owned. but atleast its slightly positive compared to the normal way things happen. Im also guessing this is on another thread somewhere so ill go trolling when i get home. ~</DIV><p>Message Edited by DisturbedMaggot on <span class=date_text>11-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:26 PM</span>

[chOgg]

Last night I went to PoA to test my newly-patched skills.  As a 65 bruiser in mastercrafted gear, I could solo 66 single-ups without too much down time in between pulls.  I was not able to solo a pair of them unless my fear and mezz worked perfectly and I burned my heal, mit buff, knockout combo, and every other trick I could think of.  I tried fighting a 66^^^ for kicks, and hung in there for about 10 or 12 seconds before having to FD.  I think I got him just out of the green into the yellow.  It seemed to me to be working great from my limited set of tests.Thoral, 65 Bruiser, Mistmoore<div></div>

[Gungo]

<P>Dunno the changes seem like  ruse to pacify us to me. The 5% mitigation boost (20% max) only takes into account base mitgation (it does not take into account + C/S/P. It only takes the base from the helm/shoulders/chest/forearms/gloves/legs/boots. In fully fabled KoS gear 5% added ~150 mitigation to me. This comes out to ~1% mitgation absorbtion.</P> <P>The 12% base uncontested deflection is a joke. Seriously if a mob is so difficult that it reduces my deflection from 35%+ to below 12%. It means it is a high lvl (1), heroic/epic (2), named (3), that possibly has high offensive or + to hit(4). At this point do you really think avoiding 12% is going to keep us alive. Truthfully if the devs are right and they do reduce the majority of to hit values. This should only happen vs most epics and lvl74 named heroics like the last mob in nizara. Still even in that regard there is absolutely no reason why brawlers should be programed to tank worse then every other fighter.  </P> <P> </P>

[Devast]

I still think its a crappy bonus. they give us 5% more mit to compensate for the loss of roughly 30% avoidance. with my 38% base and 7% uncontested deflection this only takes me to about 45% avoidance when i used to have over 70%. they gave us about 6% more mit total with eof being released. im sitting around druid avoidance. now against yellows/oranges i had no trouble tanking labs, i was hardly getting hit there against trash and sometimes named. but dealing with greens/blues is still ridiculous. i can hardly solo any green named in kos anymore and blue are out of the question. i can still solo up to level 68 blue trash, but named are just out of the question.<div></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devaster wrote:<BR>I still think its a crappy bonus. they give us 5% more mit to compensate for the loss of roughly 30% avoidance. with my 38% base and 7% uncontested deflection this only takes me to about 45% avoidance when i used to have over 70%. they gave us about 6% more mit total with eof being released. im sitting around druid avoidance. now against yellows/oranges i had no trouble tanking labs, i was hardly getting hit there against trash and sometimes named. but dealing with greens/blues is still ridiculous. i can hardly solo any green named in kos anymore and blue are out of the question. i can still solo up to level 68 blue trash, but named are just out of the question.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The 7% base defelction is not added to your total avoidance. Its your bare minimum. Basically a mob can reduce your shown avodiance to 7%. So you will always deflect at least 7% of an even con mob. That 7% is further reduced vs higher lvl mobs. </P> <P>See my point? if i am alreayd fighting a mbo that reduced my avoidance that much. I am alreayd dead. There is a big differece in 12% and 20% as a bare minimum.</P>

[Devast]

i was under the impression that the base avoidance was being checked and working correctly so i just assumed that we add the 7% on. if that is true than we have virtually no avoidance against monsters that are green and blue. makes farming near impossible i guess.<div></div>

[Rezzonico]

<P>k...sorry ChOgg</P> <P> </P> <P>Gungo....yes....maibe giving us a little more deflection, parry or what else doesn't matter, but always better than a kick in the [Removed for Content].</P> <P> Because if now i am 60% avoiadance on defensive, and they hit me with a combat art that decreases my defense or agility,  a Lama can oneshoot me with a  spittle...</P> <P>But if they restore my avoiadance to 65% in defensive ( as it was before the update), maibe the lama will think more than one time if attack us or not....</P> <P>But now......now we avoid even the pee of a fitchew</P> <P>Actually we aren't either a tank or an Hybrid...and if we want to be negative we aren't a tank, we aren't an Hybrid, we aren't a figher,  we are in some ways a dps....</P> <P>In short....we are "Zombies walking in the Shi.t"     (wow seems a new Romero's Film)</P> <P> </P> <P>There are also people that want to enjoy in mastercrafted, because they have no time to do raids or quests to looking for fabled 24/7 like nerds (and many persons in this game are)...in facts the bruiser should be a soloer class, and now can't solo an heroic 62  3 harrows .</P>

[Supp]

<P><FONT color=#cccccc>I betrayed to bruiser just recently. 'bout half mastered. My monk was like 75% mastered. Last night I went into MM Castle to kill my 25 vamps for Rallos. It took a while, and one death, but I did get them all solo. They were L72-73 double down arrow, single down arrow, and no arrow, ranging in groups of 1 to 3. With a combination of Stone Deaf, Vig Spirit, FD and Offensive Stance, I was able to kill them. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>Now Im a noob at being a bruiser, so I forgot to mez and fear them as an additional tactic. But I didnt seem to need to. Now I know I couldnt have done that on my monk, so my bruiser seems pretty strong. However as this was my first real attempt to test him, I have no idea what things were like before. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cccccc>I saw a lot of Sky is Falling threads that concerned me, but I dont feel that gimped. But that's just because I used to be a gimped monk. In any case, I dont feel like a wussy, thank God.</FONT></P>

[Rezzonico]

<DIV>yep.... maibe it could be possible, but it's still difficult continue lives in this way....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Rezzonico on <SPAN class=date_text>11-22-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:25 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Rezzonico on <SPAN class=date_text>11-22-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:35 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Rezzonico on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:36 AM</span>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devaster wrote:<BR>i was under the impression that the base avoidance was being checked and working correctly so i just assumed that we add the 7% on. if that is true than we have virtually no avoidance against monsters that are green and blue. makes farming near impossible i guess.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Naw greens and blues will not reduce avodiance much if at all. Avoidance is reduced by lvl. Then it is reduced by a mobs offensive skill. A mobs offensive skill increases with the mobs current lvl (1), type heroic<Epic (2), Named (3), and any offensive bonuses it recieves by class/skills (4). So in order to reduce our shown avodiance to 12% or 7% etc. The mob should be a named heroic/epic high con mob. In which case if he is hitting me all but 12% (or 7% w app3 def stance) of the time i am already dead or will  be shortly.

[chOgg]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rezzonico wrote:<div></div> <div>In general..... Sometime i ask myself if SOE pays you (or you are a fake of a soe members) to say these stupid things or what......seems to be like in the NGE in swg, where 8 persons are contrary and 2 are at favour...but soe doesn't listen the 8 contrary but the 2 at favour.</div> <div> </div> <div>And I sayd just few lines above what's a situation for a mastercrafted player with pieces of legendary, some master 1and all adept3, and most of the achievments.... can't hold more than 1 lvl 62 heroics 3 harrows.</div> <div> </div> <div>So i don't find the excuse or the way that make me to believe that an "half-fabled equiped" (that has betrayed from not much time) can kill group of lvl 72-73 heroics....the biggest joke ever heard.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>I said it in another post....NGE is coming here too.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>For this don't offend if i say "SOE bought you".</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><p>Message Edited by Rezzonico on <span class="date_text">11-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:25 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Lol, Rezz, this is the second time someone has said that they can solo down-arrow and no-arrow mobs, and you thought they said they can solo triple-up arrow heroics.  I agree with the OP that the level of difficulty for down-arrow, no arrow, and maybe single up-arrow mobs isn't much different than before.  The big change is that the triple up-arrow heroics got a huge boost.  I used to be able to solo blue triple-ups, but now they crush me like a bug.  People that are complaining that bruisers can't tank now generally mean that its much harder to tank those triple-ups.I heard someone on one of these forums say that a single up was like 2 normal mobs, a double up was like 4, and a triple up was like 8 normal mobs.  That seems to sum up the difficulty pretty well.Thoral, 65 Bruiser, Mistmoore</div>

[Rezzonico]

<DIV>SORRY...my fault.....sorry i am italian and my english is not so excellent :smileyvery-happy: ....sorry again!!! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so....sure in that case it's possible....but now, as i said before  "We are Zombies walking in the shi.t"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If living in previous update was hard...now it's the hell....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I EDITED  what i said before,,,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Rezzonico on <SPAN class=date_text>11-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:37 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Rezzonico on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>

[Supp]

<DIV><FONT color=#cccccc>Let me clarify something. Tis true Im only half mastered. But my equipment is completely top end. Youd be hard pressed to get better than what I have. So that helps a lot. Based on my experience last night though, knowing the proper casting order is a heck of a lot more important than wonder gear. As the night progressed, my refining of my casting order helped tremendously (as I learn the class). If I had thought to mez something, that would have been pretty disgusting actually. In fact, Im ashamed to admit that there is actually more finessing involved with bruiserdom than monkdom.</FONT></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Supple on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:42 PM</span>

[Devast]

i was off tanking labs fine last night. yellows and even cons dont even me much trouble. they hit hard when they connect, but i avoid quite a bit. now when it comes to dealing with heroic blues and greens they beat the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of me. this patch didnt do anything but boost my mit 5%. and since greens and blues are hitting for cap damage that really doesnt do any good. farming is out of the question until you get all fantastic adornments and new eof raid gear and fully mastered with 100 AA. it is ridiculous what they have done to the brawler class. i wont even be that effective for at least a month or two.<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rezzonico wrote:<BR> <DIV>SORRY...my fault.....sorry i am italian and my english is not so excellent :smileyvery-happy: ....sorry again!!! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so....sure in that case it's possible....but now, as i said before  "We are Zombies walking in the shi.t"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If living in previous update was hard...now it's the hell....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I EDITED  what i said before,,,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Rezzonico on <SPAN class=date_text>11-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:37 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Rezzonico on <SPAN class=date_text>11-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:44 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>lol rez you make me laugh .. i enjoy reading these so much more with your posts even if i never understand them lol /respect REZ !

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devaster wrote:<BR>i was off tanking labs fine last night. yellows and even cons dont even me much trouble. they hit hard when they connect, but i avoid quite a bit. now when it comes to dealing with heroic blues and greens they beat the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of me. this patch didnt do anything but boost my mit 5%. and since greens and blues are hitting for cap damage that really doesnt do any good. farming is out of the question until you get all fantastic adornments and new eof raid gear and fully mastered with 100 AA. it is ridiculous what they have done to the brawler class. i wont even be that effective for at least a month or two.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>im assuming u mean trash and your group consisted of Defier/Mystic , Druid + temp ? hehe with my brigand can tank labs trash i still think my brusier should do it a lot easier :smileywink: healers in my guild always ask why the hell do i get hit so much and so hard with your advoidance and mit ? my answer is always " (but yup it hurts a lot on oranges)</P> <P>/Shrug cos SOE deems it so :smileywink:... but i do it soo much cooler than a plate tank and besides i like to keep my healers from falling asleep ... makes the zone more fun .. dont you think ? "</P> <P>anyway i agree with gungo , 12% isnt enough by far and mit changes dont really amass to all that much of an improvement tbh ... ahh well at least they are tweaking us .. heres to hoping they get it right :smileysurprised:Cheers !</P> <P> </P>

[Godsgift4040]

<DIV>Even if we had a 30 percent uncontested avoidance u couldnt tank anything with our mitigation atm. Although SoE got it right by giving us 12 instead. Who said they didnt want a challenge....</DIV> <DIV>denubis befallen</DIV>

[Valkea]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rezzonico wrote:<div></div>There are also people that want to enjoy in mastercrafted, because they have no time to do raids or quests to looking for fabled 24/7 like nerds (and many persons in this game are)...<hr></blockquote>Rezz. You're my hero. And I'm stealing this quote for my sig.</div>

[Ether]

<P>The combat mechanics are so utterly broken its a joke that Im laughing at everytime I discover something new..</P> <P>For example, had been using piercing for ages and decided to grab a crushing weapon for fun. Had like 12 skill in crushing so I thought, heck this is going to take a while to skill-up and be able to hit anything.. except...</P> <P> </P> <P>There I was HITTING 90% of the time. With 11 skill mind you on level 44 mobs.</P> <P> </P> <P>If this is an indication about how farked up things are, any post from the devs about a modest increase in base deflection should be met with equal laughter.</P> <P> </P> <P>Seriously, at this point, these guys need to take a math class</P>

[ganjookie]

your skills are based on crushing skill but do slash/perice/crush dmg depending on weapon, unless thats changed recently<div></div>

[Gungo]

Changed i think right before KoS came out. Yeah i realise this is like the third time they flipped on this so hard to keep track. But all your melee skills are needed.