Proc Rate Check

[Ar]

<div></div>8 AAs into Mantis Bolt, 24%: 2% (4% of non-melee output) proc rate according to ACT logs over a Labs raid.Engulf, 10%: 2% (4% of non-melee output), same source.Crushing output is 39%, with 8 AAs into double attacks (96%).Also have 8 AAs into crits, 18%.Mantis Bolt: clossest I can come to 24% rate calculation would be to consider 20% of my melee being from main hand, taking 24% of it, assuming Mantis Bolt woudnt proc on a CA and only on main hand attack. 24% of 20% is 4.8% (ACT logs says 3.729% of non-melee output).Engulf: same as above. 10% of 20% is 5% (ACT logs says 3.625% of non-melee output)Anyone has the same conclusions?DeadstoneMM(edited to add numbers and calculations)<div></div><p>Message Edited by Arlo on <span class=date_text>06-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:22 AM</span>

[Ar]

Fighting unarmed and trying to max DPS, anyone in my situation?STR 4 5 8STA 4 4 8INT 4 4 8<div></div>

[Landaros]

Strange question, but how can you max dps without a weapon? Common sense tells me that a weapon has stats and a base damage, therefore it should make more damage than using your bare fists.<div></div>

[Elephant]

<DIV>Please read some topics on maxxing DPS before using common sense <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Ar]

Try /weaponstats command, here's my results Name: fist Base damage: 48-144 Actual damage: 151-452 Actual delay: 2.0 That's at 439 STR My self buffed haste is 22% and DPS mod 44% Deadstone <div></div>

[Elephant]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Try /weaponstats command, here's my results <BR>My self buffed haste is 22% and DPS mod 44%<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow thank you, I was not aware about this command. OMG it is what I was looking for!!!</P> <P>Question though, how did you achieve 44% DPS and 22% haste self buffed?!</P>

[Landaros]

Is there any difference in range? In other words: do I have to stand closer to the mob when I am unarmed?<div></div>

[Maelwy]

<DIV>not sure, but it seems that fist weapon range is shorter than 2hs range.  cant confirm it tho.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm really concerned about the proc rates currently.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group buffs tonight left me with 95% haste, 50% dps.  Overall proc rates on the calamaties was running about 1% each.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But we're hitting a lot right?  so that should makeup for the low percentage (at least thats the concept) - in reality, the debuff portion of Ruinous Strike was 10 secs of a 2:22 second fight, at best.  If the proc was going off appropriately (at it's quoted percentage to proc) the mob would have been debuffed for 50 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>somethings not quite right here...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Okay, here goes...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Landaros wrote:<BR>Is there any difference in range? In other words: do I have to stand closer to the mob when I am unarmed?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No. There may have been at one time, but as of now, if you are doing melee.. then you need to be in melee range. Doesn't matter if you are stabbing with a twohander spear or if you are slapping them with your bare fists.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's melee weapon range... melee combat art range... ranged combat art range (minimum, which can be inside the max melee range on combat arts, hence the "sweet spot" for rangers), and range weapon range. Ranged weapons and all arts have a range listed... melee weapons don't, as they all work the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elephanton wrote:<BR> <P>Question though, how did you achieve 44% DPS and 22% haste self buffed?!<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>44% DPS would be from the 24% Rabid Cry master 1 group buff we get, plus the 20% from the Strength AA itself. The 22% haste would be some item.. there's a few fabled out there that have some nice haste on it. Dunno what this one was exactly... DoF sash? Something in the 30s or 40s? Or is this adding together FBSS and one of those charms that grant haste too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Landaros wrote:<BR>Strange question, but how can you max dps without a weapon? Common sense tells me that a weapon has stats and a base damage, therefore it should make more damage than using your bare fists.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Never seen someone bust bricks with their bare hands? Or with their face even? Ha!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah... unarmed does damage, it has it's own damage rating for Brawlers. It's not that great, but better than nothing... and with focused training (the Str AA line), you can even turn unarmed into a very powerful weapon choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like was mentioned... see the AA's and the multiple threads that have been posted about this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Arlo wrote:<BR>Anyone has the same conclusions?<BR><BR><EM>(Original Post)</EM><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I haven't run my parser in a while, so I'd have to look back... but the % output from ACT is just the % of your overall damage. Procs do only a small % of your damage because they aren't that big of a damage, and they aren't going off all the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In other words... the % given in the output screen, reflects the % of your damage that you do. So a proc being 2% of your total damage would only indicate that you are doing 98% of your damage with things other than your proc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or are you saying that you are only proc'ing on 2% of your attacks? Because that's not the situation I've seen, personally... it procs quite often. To get that number, you need to count the NUMBER of attacks you did, and the number of times the proc went off... and figure out the percentage between those numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your post is a little confusing because you toss numbers out there without really explaining how they fit with each other... Also, "handedness" has nothing to do with your situation. In fact, the only thing that is affected by mainhand issues, is the <STRONG>weapon proc</STRONG> that you will do <STRONG>on your combat arts</STRONG>... as you will only proc the mainhand proc when doing combat arts, not the offhand one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, any proc you get anywhere else will proc off of every single attack except your extra attack from Double Attack. That means Engulf will proc on the offhand attacks as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's an example on the % thing...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Say you did 50,000 damage. Your crush takes up 50%, and your proc takes up only 5%. All those numbers mean is that you did 25,000 damage from Crush, and 2,500 damage from the proc. If the proc was 100 damage each, then you proc'd 25 times. If the proc was 10 damage each, then you proc'd 250 times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The % given there doesn't tell us anything with regardes to <EM>how often it's actually proc'ing</EM>, it only tells us how much of our total damage is coming from it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is really only a tool to tell you how much damage each weapon or art you have does in comparison to the other. In this case, you could say that if that fight was your peak performance... then the single most contributing factor to your DPS is your crush damage. Whereas your proc is only adding a smidgen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a great mechanic to determine which aspect you should have a priority in upgrading. Obviously... trying to improve your proc (getting a Master 1 in offensive stance to improve Engulf damage) would be far, far inferior to just improving the damage on your crush (weapon output).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is not a mechanic to determine rate of procs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I took a look at one of my old parses. It says I "hit" 112 times in one fight. However, a lot of those attacks don't count for procs... like our aoe's, hundred hand punch, or the various other procs I had from buffs. Also, half my hits from crush were not counting either (double attack doesn't add), so I need to discount those as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, I really had only 45 attacks that would grant a proc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And then I look at my procs on Roughhousing, which shows 5 that fight. This gives us only a little over 11% proc rate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, this is also a very small spread. I took a look at another fight where I had only 29 actual attacks that would proc, and had 8 procs of Roughhousing (this would be around 28% proc rate). It's all very much based on luck in the small fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only if you were to compile all the data over a long, long period of time (getting a higher number, in the 10,000 hits range) would you start to see a normalization of the proc rate. The problem with doing this, is that the game counts every single instance a hit is made... and so far there's no "culling" tool to get rid of the hits that shouldn't count. Very difficult to find out if the procs are <EM>really</EM> going off as much as they should.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ar]

Superb post Raidi, thank you. I realize I may have been off base trying to calculate my proc rates. I was using damage numbers and not the number of attacks. Furthermore I was not aware of how Procs work with CAs versus normal attacks. And yes, 24% Rabid Cry M1, 20% from STR AA and DoF (Dorn B'Dynn) sash for 22% haste. The haste on that item is hard to upgrade even if I sacrifice stats to wear it. Very interesting read. I think that by what you are saying, lets say a 100 attacks sequence, <b>NO</b> CA whatssoever, with a 96% double attack rate: this would give, roughly, 50 <font size="2">(true number would maybe be 50-51)</font> hits <i>available</i> to generate a proc. Analysing normal parses with CAs in them, you would need to factor out every CA hit but the 1st hit of it. For example, Savage Bruising would only proc on the very 1st hit of the 1st mob. Any of the remaining <i>possible</i> 3 hits on the same mobs would not count as a "proccable" hit and any other mobs that would be hit, 1 to 4 hits, would not be elligible as a "proccable" hit. Now if I may, would anyone know how double attack and dual wield work "inside" a CA? For a Single hit CA, like Eye Gash for example, lets examine the 1 hit it does. With the new information from Raidi, I would say this: Eye Gash lands ---> 1 chance to proc on 1st (and in the case, only) hit. All procs have 1 chance to score, buff, weapon, stance.                            ---> 1 chance to dual wield (?) 50% (?) of the time. No proc allowed. No double attack allowed?                            ---> 1 chance to double attack 96% of the time. No proc allowed. No dual wield allowed. I'm going to stop there for now, I dont have any post or data to base my ideas on atm. I may try to build a "tree" of what happens everytime a hit lands in bruiser land... Theres got to be a way to compute all that stuff. Food for toughts, I need to digest all that and simplify it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I believe its by having intelligent discussions about the bruiser class that we can improve ourselves and play better. Sorry for all the nonsense <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Again, thank you. Deadstone MM <div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Double Attack (and the other various abilities that grant attack more than once) <EM>only</EM>  work with autoattack. You don't get a chance to hit a second time with a CA.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure what you mean by "1 chance to dual wield (?) 50% (?) of the time." .. Dual Wield is nothing like it was in EQ1, there's no "chance" to use your offhand weapon. In EQ2, if you have an offhand weapon, it attacks on its own, at it's own speed based on the weapon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if you are unarmed, there's no offhand weapon anyways. You aren't dual wielding bare fist attacks, unfortunately... it's treated more like a 2handed weapon in attacks, damage, and speed.</DIV>