Bruiser AA's

[Trayla]

<DIV>Hi all. I've got a lvl 24 bruiser and was wondering what AA path to take. I solo just as much as I group, but when my hubby gets his own accoutn I'm probably going to be the tank when we duo if that makes any difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't even bought the KoS expansion yet, so I really have no understanding of how the AA"s work. I haven't really played since January. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any help is appreciated. Thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh - also - does it make any difference in how long it takes to get the AAs if I do them now as opposed to if i do them later. THough I imagine there is some kind of level cap on certain AA like in eq1. </DIV>

[Gungo]

<DIV>Hmm well when you reach the lvl cap AA gain is much faster. AA are really situational on what you prefer. Wis line iis great if you like 2 handers. Str line is great when you are able to max the double atk rank. Also saves some cash from upgrading wpns and does great dps. The int line is a decent all around fist line. Agi line is not worth it unless you really want the final ability for raids.. The best dps set up with a pair of rare dual wields is 4/4/8 int/wis/sta. There best def setup dependson your character. Some people try to max out their avoid, But the final int line ability is great for tanking especially in groups. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For a decent mix of tanking and dps if i were you i would go 4/4/8/4/8 int and 4/4/8/5 sta. but liek anything is what you prefer.</DIV>

[Maelwy]

<P>I've gone to 4448 sta, 42 wis 4478 int after a few respecs.  This is since i primarily tank groups/instances, and need the more defensive build.  I dw mostly, unless mowing down lots of multi mob encounters, then i switch to 2h staff, gaining the extra aoe attack for hate and dps.</P> <P>On raids i give up 10-200 dps (depending on target and buffs) compared to a slightly better geared bruiser who built more offensive on the aa's.  </P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>Your DPS choices are the 3 of the following 4 options:</P> <P>Strength 4/4/8<BR>Stamina 4/4/8<BR>Wisdom 4/4/8<BR>Intelligence 4/4/8</P> <P>If you don't intend to spend heavy cash on weapons, then the Strength line is very very good... so good, at 70 it's better than most weapon choices short of fabled gear. Pure damage wise, anyways. Then choose Stamina and Intelligence, since Wisdom's proc, while good, won't be as solid as Stamina's proc (lower % as well as not as fully effective unless facing 2+ opponents).</P> <P>If you do want to use weapons, then just use Stamina, Wisdom, Intelligence.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you want tanking, then I would suggest the following:</P> <P>Wisdom 4/4/8/8<BR>Intelligence 4/4/4/4/8</P> <P>Parry and the Final ability from Intelligence gives a nice bonus to avoidance and a huge bonus to mitigation right when you need it most. Also, the wisdom line gives the most benefit to survivability and aggro control. You get two extra AoE skills (60s recast aoe ability and the aoe proc) which is an area that we are short in, plus you get an additional 4% max health, which, in all honesty, is better than ~1% more avoidance from one of the other lines. Also, the Wisdom will increase your resists slightly too (~100), which can't hurt.. and our wis is usually not capped, so always useful.</P> <P>Stamina is nice, but avoidance is less useful than mitigation or straight up hitpoints (in my experience), and the stamina proc only helps our single target damage/aggro, which is something we really don't lack. The stamina itself is nice, and the weapon ability is good for pulling, but that doesn't outweigh the entire wisdom line.</P> <P> </P> <P>This is all my opinion and experience, of course. Your mileage may vary.</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>Oh, and being that you are only in your mid 20s, here's some advice on AA's in general...</P> <P>Get KoS as soon as possible. All those discoveries, quests, and collections can only be done once, and if you do them BEFORE you get KoS, you lose out on the achievement xp you could have gotten.</P> <P>However, when you get or spend the points doesn't matter. They added this partway through the game, so for those of us already at 70 we had to start getting our AAs at the end, and there's no real difference.<BR>You can save up those points as well, and it won't matter... heck, you can respec and have all 50 points sitting there and then rechoose everything, so there can't be any drawback to holding them.</P> <P> </P> <P>So if you are thinking of getting KoS, get it asap... but otherwise you can pick and choose your points.</P>

[Trayla]

<DIV>thanks - you guys have been reallly helpful.</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>Was figuring out some numbers for a guildmate, and came up with this little handy dandy chart for unarmed DRs throughout levels. (Chart assumes Str 4/4/8 of course).</P> <P><EM><U>Level    Store    AA DR</U></EM>     <BR> 20        15.6      ~36.7<BR> 30        22.8      ~53.6<BR> 40        30.9      ~72.7<BR> 50        39.9      ~93.8<BR> 60        48.9      ~115<BR> 70      ~57.9     ~136.2</P> <P>This is assuming 96% Double Attack and +20% DPS mod. Lvl 70 is not a hard number (none of them are really, dev's said "similar to" storebought, but whatever). I just extrapolated the rate of increase... it's going to be at <EM>least</EM> that much, I'm thinking.</P> <P>Wonder what the new Mastercrafted DRs are, and if unarmed is competitive at the lower levels.</P>

[Trayla]

<P>I did get the expansion last night so was able to understand part of what you're saying now - but what do you mean when you say..ie: Strength 4/4/8</P> <P>what do the numbers refer to? </P>

[Maelwy]

<P>along the str aa line, it'd be 4 pts into first box (4 ranks) 4 into 2nd, and 8 into third skill</P> <P> </P>

[Trayla]

<P>OK thanks - yes I also figured this out after finding the AA FAQ. </P> <P>I still can't decide what to do exactly. If I do strength - does that mean I can never use a weapon? Well obviously I *could* use one but it would be pretty dumb to do that... right? When would I actually stop using weapons if I were to do this - after what skill? Is there still *some kind* of fist weapon I have to equip or is it really NO weapons? Sorry this just seems weird to me. </P> <P>Keep in mind these questions are coming from someone who will never see end game never be uber and never be tanking for any huge raids. I am a pretty casual player - 2 year old acct with highest lvl char being lvl 25 if that gives you a clue lol.  So I don't know - you guys are the pros. What do I do ><</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Okay, when it says "unarmed" they mean no weapons at all (not even fist weapons). The chart I posted above will show you what your damage rating will be... you can compare them to the other weapon DRs out there (for dual wield, take two weapons and add up their DRs).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for what to do.. well, if you aren't sure how high level you are going to get, or if you are going to get all weapons, then I would suggest the following...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want more damage, go down the Int line first, then Stamina line...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Strength is nice, but only once you get a lot of points into it.... really, you need 12 AA points for it to be actually a decent option, and 16 points to make it really really worthwhile. So if you expect things to go slow, it'd be better to start with the other options.</DIV>

[Trayla]

so int/sta/str all 448?

[Trayla]

weren't you saying wis earlier instead of the sta?

[Mentla]

Like I said elsewhere, I've been away on PvP since KoS launched.  I noticed some of the AA lines require un-armed.  Didn't they nerf bruisa empty handed combat?  Don't we do very poor auto attack damage then?  Auto attack is pretty important to us as our recast timers mean we do spend a decent amount of any fight auto attacking. I liked the look of WIS tbh.  Not near a PC at the moment - what's so hot about the INT line? <div></div>

[RPZip]

I've always been curious as to why, say, the WIS line isn't more popular. The last ability in the WIS line looks absolutely insane to me - 100% double attack, plus the AE damage? How would that not raise your DPS to an amazing degree?EDIT: Hmm.. or I could answer my own question. 16s duration, 5m recast? Blech.<div></div>

[neon_24]

<DIV>oops dbl post </DIV><p>Message Edited by neon_24 on <span class=date_text>06-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:35 AM</span>

[neon_24]

<DIV>RPzip you say Blech but that AA ability in my experience and primarly on raids is prolly the single fastest way to die i know of and i know of allot of ways to die. I respeced for that ability and that same day we raided Lyceum of Abhorrence and useing that ability my armor was at 40% before we got down the first wing of that zone but before i bit the dust each time i DPS would spike over 2k easily. Put simply awesome ability if you can survive it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RPZip]

Hm, yeah, but I'd been hoping for something absolutely insane - like that ability being passive. =p<div></div>

[Mentla]

Which line has that teleport?  Sounds awsome for PvP at least. <div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trayla wrote:<BR> weren't you saying wis earlier instead of the sta?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The only time Wis is better than Sta is if you want to be the Tank and you want to hold aggro better. Otherwise, Sta is better for DPSing.<BR><BR><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mentla wrote:<BR> Like I said elsewhere, I've been away on PvP since KoS launched.  I noticed some of the AA lines require un-armed.  Didn't they nerf bruisa empty handed combat?  Don't we do very poor auto attack damage then?  Auto attack is pretty important to us as our recast timers mean we do spend a decent amount of any fight auto attacking.<BR><BR>I liked the look of WIS tbh.  Not near a PC at the moment - what's so hot about the INT line?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Not "some", only one of the AA lines requires unarmed. Unarmed is poor on it's own, but they give such a massive boost to it in the Strength line, that it's definately worth using. The DR with using unarmed is better than Fabled, although without the stats.</P> <P>I parsed my fights with weapons and the Wis line (was going for aggro control), and then switched to Strength line and parsed that instead.... I parsed higher with unarmed and the Strength AA line. Much higher... it's a world of difference.<BR><BR><BR>The "hotness" of the Int line is the extra crit chance. Crits can increase our damage by quite a lot. It's also great for tanking, because the last ability give 1400 extra mitigation when you get low on health. At 70, that's something like another 15% mitigated. Since it's passive (comes up whenever you are below 30% health), it's very nice for tanking anything hard hitting.</P> <P>I'm sure if I combined all my gear, two mitigation abilities, and this AA thing, I'd have over 80% mitigation vs a lvl 70 target (albeit only when low and for a few seconds)... as it stands, without the Int line, I'm already hitting 70% mitigation for those 30s.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mentla wrote:<BR> Which line has that teleport?  Sounds awsome for PvP at least. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The end ability of the stamina line. Actually, the stamina line is fairly good for PVP all around. Decent defense, extra health from stamina, and it has a nice damage proc... all combined with a ranged Combat Art that debuffs their Stamina, and the warping ability to catch up to them.</P> <P>Really, if I was doing PvP, Stamina up to the end ability would be what I'd do. Not sure what else from there... maybe wis for resists and aoe stun ability/proc... or Int to force someone to face away so I can more assuredly smack them with a kidney punch. Getting behind folks can be tough, especially with the lower stun durations these days.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RPZip wrote:<BR> I've always been curious as to why, say, the WIS line isn't more popular.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The end ability is nice, but like was said.. will spike damage so bad you'll probably get aggro fairly quickly. Since there's no real aggro reducer for Fighters (none that really help enough), we have to avoid spiking too much.</P> <P>However, it might be nice for KEEPING aggro if you are the Main Tank instead. Not sure if I'd use the points on that, instead of more procs/defense and the Int ability.</P> <P>Personally... I find more mitigation more important than a 16s duration / 5 minute recast ability for spike damage.<BR></P>

[Mentla]

Raidi - thanks dude, nice response. I was kinda liking the whole WIS line and figured the end ability would be good for day-to-day named slaying.  Got me a free respec anyway, so we'll see how it goes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Plague Mast]

<DIV>I started my bruiser (6<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> after kos came out.  I liked the way I did it.  For new bruisers, lump all your AA into STR and STA, 8 in each.  You will be at least about lvl 40 by the time you get 16 AA, unless you go collecting discoveries in zones you cant fight in yet.  They can always be changed.  The STR and STA bonuses are the same amount whether you are 70 or 25, but they mean ALOT to a lvl 25 toon.  Just the str and sta bonuses will make you alot stronger.  When you get enough aa's to spread around some, respec them.</DIV>

[Trayla]

<DIV>I am seriously grasping at straws with where I place my points. I help out guildies and my husband so much I rarely get to gain any of my own AA points so I feel a little AA impaired for my lvl. I'm lvl 40 now and have only 5 right now. :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far I have put them all into int. I noticed with the last one I placed (in the second box for int) it gave me a new spell which requires me to use a fist weapon. Do I need both of my weapons I'm using to be fist weapons or just one - or just the primary? OR - should I respect and put these things somewhere else. From what I've gathered my end result is probaby going to be 4/4/8 in str sta and int. Would it make more sense for me to just put these into str now and stop using weapons or just keep on doing what I'm doing? Or does it matter really?</DIV>

[Shoenasty]

I have the staff of the flapping wing ( 2-hander ).  So far,  I have 19 AA points and have put them into Sta and Wis lines.  I have Sta 4,4,4 and Wis 4,2 so far.  I love the AE abilities on the wis line and the extra hps and proc from sta line.  I'm thinking I'm heading more towards the hybrid bruiser with this setup though.  Not sure if I want that or not yet.  What do you guys think would be best for me if I want to do DPS and still tank sometimes?  I'm a lvl 67 Bruiser and like I state before,  I have the staff of flapping wing which has a DR of 108.5.  Should I go with str and unarmed still?  Or go with Wis and Int and keep using staff?

[wayfaerer]

I'm on a PvP server. I originally went all the way down the STA line for the teleport, but once I had it it was a major letdown. It definately has its uses and it was vastly amusing the one time I used it to teleport from the SS dock up onto the cliff and uppercut the wizard off the cliff to his death.. but compared to the sheer brutality that is crane flock, mantis leap was weak. So I respecced.I'm now at 44881 WIS and 4481 INT. I am very happy with this spec.The strengths are as follows:#1: CRANE FLOCK. The immense volumes of devastation that this ability dishes out cannot be underestimated. On bosses with 2 sidekicks or groups of at least 3 trash, I will parse at the top of the list. Groups of 4 or more it's not even close. There is a drawback to this though, and that is pulling aggro. Pretty much every time I use crane flock I hear "Zizz you've pulled aggro on XXXX mob" on vent. On harder hitting mobs this would be a problem, but for the weak stuff in labs I just tank them in offensive stance. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I once used Crane Flock on a group of 6 trash mobs while I was buffed to 100% dps and had the fury proc on too. I've never felt as much joy as having my entire screen full of orange 1500-2000 damage hits. I parsed almost 3k dps that fight. Note that I'm only using Grizz staff so if I had a good weapon it would be even better.#2: Crane Twirl. This is a very powerful proc, at 8 points. In groups of 3-4 mobs this will be my 2nd or 3rd highest source of damage, the other two being crush and savage bruising obviously.#3: Crane Sweep. Not all that crash hot as it does very little damage and has a relatively long reuse timer, but it's another good tool for holding aggro on heroics and it's definately good in group PvP since after taunting everyone onto you you sweep them all away making them have to get back up and in to melee range.#4: Eagle's Fury. This is the #1 must have AA for any spec in my view. Nomatter whether you're specced for dual wield, or staff, or fists, you will want this AA at 8 points. I think it's hard to argue otherwise, at least from a PvP perspective.#5: Eagle Spin. The good thing about this ability is it doesnt have its duration reduced in PvP, so at the minimum 4 points you get a 2.1 second root which forces them to face away from you, giving you a wide opening to drop a kidney punch and a couple of other CAs into them.<div></div>

[lagerone]

<P>Can Crane Twirl be a liability with mezzed mobs?</P> <P>As a passive ability I assume it will automatically break mezzed encounters?  Or does it not work this way?</P> <P> </P>

[wayfaerer]

I don't know if it will break mez. I don't think it will since mez makes mobs immune to AE. It's non encounter though meaning it will aggro nonaggro mobs that may be nearby, although the range is very low. It's a self buff, meaning you can click it off, which you will occasionally want to do.Out of curiosity, here is a parse list from last nights trip to labs to show you where I stand with this AA spec: Allies: (35:50) 12584277 | 5853.15 [Suffa-Decapitate-16026] Suffa Dmg 1784013 MaxHit 16026    <-- 70 assassin, in mt group so basically no buffs to help dps Esqi Dmg 1613833 MaxHit 2729   <-- 70 brigand, coercer dps buff plus fury proc buff Zizz Dmg 1326311 MaxHit 3143   <-- 70 bruiser, in mt group, no dps buffs, tank gear, defensive stance alot since i was pulling and occasionally tanking Lenny Dmg 1323649 MaxHit 2525  <-- 70 brigand, coercer dps buff Wqyz Dmg 1239289 MaxHit 2538    <-- 70 brigand, coercer dps buffMellina Dmg 1142204 MaxHit 12153     <-- 67 assassin, coercer dps buff Oddy Dmg 831443 MaxHit 2379     <-- 70 guard, mt Tartlicious Dmg 712247 MaxHit 2121     <-- 68 berserker Darknaar Dmg 616677 MaxHit 7535     <-- 61 wiz Reteyha Dmg 594465 MaxHit 1526     <-- 61 necro Wombat Dmg 469156 MaxHit 1985    <-- 66 dirge Kyoske Dmg 280556 MaxHit 7799    <-- 62 shadowknightThis was run just includes the first 3 named and all the trash beforehand. I used crane flock on any pull of at least 2 mobs, when it was up. It really kicked butt on Vakrizt where I parsed #2 only 100 damage behind Suffa, although as usual I was tanking the two adds for a lot of the fight thanks to my zealous AE spamming. =)All of us are relatively evenly equipped, having no raid gear at all, just standard t7 legendary stuff with mastercrafted in the gaps. Some of the brigands have fabled PvP weapons.I occasionally think I should respec to sta/wis/int for better single target dps but I just cry when I think of how much I'd miss crane flock. Once it starts posing a problem with regards to getting me killed on raids I'll probably think about it some more, but for now I'm loving it.<div></div>

[Schwertheiliger]

Can I use the second ability of the wis line with a twohand hammer? Iguess not but I have to ask.

[Lai]

<DIV>I went down the INT line (4/4/8/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and STA line (4/4/4/<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  My reasoning behind it was to max out my avoidance at 80% and you get much better % from parry and deflection than you do from defense, also defense gear is much easier to come by.  I really enjoy the INT line for the critical threat range increase (that combined with MoA and potions has me doing a crit hit about 1/3 of the time)  I also really like the eagle spin ability.  Granted it only lasts for 2s, but now I'm not forced to stun then jump over them to get off my kidney punch, makes getting that ability off much easier whether soloing or tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Briza</DIV> <DIV>70 Bruiser - Alchemist</DIV> <DIV>Heaven & Earth</DIV>

[Lai]

<DIV>oops... duo posts... :smileymad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Laita on <span class=date_text>09-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:34 AM</span>

[J4k]

I personally think atm how avoidance is working it is a waste it put any points into any of the avoidance lines. I can get my avoidance to about 78 or 79% solo and 82 - 83% in a group ( tanking group ). The 4.1% extra avoidance you get from the AA lines really isnt doing AS MUCH as any AA lines that would increase your dps which inturn also increases your aggro. If I were to put points into any of those lines it would probably be max health.