SK VS Bruiser...Need Bruiser advice [Archive]

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Ramglob

06-08-2006, 07:37 AM

I am a level 60 SK Dreadnaught on Nagafen. I am pretty sure I am close to master and should hit it within the next 2 days. Obviously that is an accomplishment due to the fact that I might be the one if not the first SK Master on Nagafen. Although I have a very good K to D ratio (closing in on 13-1) and title, I am starting to get frustrated wtih my SK's inability to be effective solo. I do not solo very often but I at least want the ability to take down somone fast if the need arises. I duo 100% of the time with a Brig and he carries me. Without him I would not be very effective at all. I am at the point where I feel that I need him next to me all the time so that I can keep my numbers / title. I understand that the SK is more of a complimentary class. I give people advice all the time defending the SK class but I want to make sure I am covering all my bases. SK's have absolutly no ability to stop runners and my DPS is rather low compared to most classes. It takes me so long to kill someone that any class could simply turn tail and run away. I like my SK but I am starting to feel that I might be a cakewalk for 1/2 the classes out there (Swashies, Conj, Monk's, rangers mostly). I used to only think that Conjurers were the only class tha could fairly take me down but my opinion is changing rapidly. Here is where I need your advice because I do like my SK but I obviously want to be the best out there..... 1. How does the Bruiser compare to the SK in PVP at higher levels? 2. Does the Bruiser have problems 1 VS 1 (even con) against any class? 3. How would a Bruiser / Brig duo do? Thank you for your input. I am interested in learning as much as I can about the bruiser. <div></div>

wayfaerer

06-08-2006, 08:03 AM

Well to answer your questions first:1) I don't play an SK and rarely group with one so I can't tell you much about how they perform. As a bruiser at higher levels, they are a powerful class but are almost 100% reliant on having someone else with you. Although a bruiser can beat almost any other class 1v1, they have incredibly weak ranged attack, only one dot, no snare, no root. Basically, short of a few sneaky tricks (such as sonic fist->intimidate) there is no way of stopping a runner. In a group they provide the taunts and survivability that a tank should, coupled with some decent spike damage from your high damage CAs.2) Depends what you mean by problems. Any healer is problematic since you lack the defence/mit debuffs that a brig has, and you have less spike damage too. Generally if I fight a healer, the fight goes for a very long time, and when they finally run out of power (assuming they haven't already killed me as in a fury or wardens case) they will simply run away. If they just stay out of combat then most healers power regen will outheal your damage and you'll eventually run out of power yourself and get bored and leave. Mage types are generally a walk in the park as a bruiser given the ability to dispell snare/root/stifle/stun off yourself and make yourself immune for ~30 seconds. Conjurers are the only ones that pose a threat, and even they are very beatable although it takes every trick in the book. Other fighters are a joke and die if they don't run away. Monks are a fairly close fight but at my level (61) a bruiser has the advantage. Scouts you would tend to beat, although it can easily go the other way if they get lucky and land their high damage CAs.3) Bruiser/Brig is arguably one of the most powerful PvP duos in the game. You have high survivability, high damage output, track, evac, even a smidgeon of healing.As a bruiser you will suffer even more frustration trying to solo than an SK. As an SK you at least have spell snares and the iwin button, allowing you to get kills now and then. As a solo bruiser you will watch every single target run away, while you chase, powerless to stop them.<div></div>

Ramglob

06-08-2006, 08:27 AM

Zizz, Its Squiggy. LOL. I should have posted my name. I guess I just get very envious when I see what Esqi and Lenny can do in a freaking hurry. Half the time I have to do my fastest casting weakest spell just to get a freaking hit off so I can gain faction. Lenny and Esqi kill so freaking fast that it truly amazes me. Lenny right now is killing toons 4-5 levels above him..........fast.............without them doing any damage to him. That is very interesting information though. My biggest rub is the fact that I can't stop a runner what so ever. It is interesting to hear that you might have the same problems. I always thought that you had 2-3 stuns and a mez. I think that I see your DPS and appreciate the amount of pop you can put on someone. Squiggy

wayfaerer

06-08-2006, 08:56 AM

Bruisers do have numerous stuns, a mez, and a fear. They are all near worthless for stopping runners though since they are melee range only, and when someone has started running they are already out of range. The only thing you can do is use sonic fists to teleport on top of them, and then mez, allowing you to position yourself for a couple of quick CAs before they run out of range again. After that it's all over until sonic fists recharges (1 minute). As of the next patch our mez will only last 4 seconds in PvP too.You are right to be jealous of brigands. They are far and away the most powerful and versatile PvP class in the game. We can't all be brigands though can we, that would be very monotonous. If you want to make the ideal PvP partner for a brigand then another brigand is probably the best choice, laughable though that idea is. If you want to be able to PvE as a duo as well then you might want to look at bruiser instead. Do you really want to level to 60 again though? That's the question. Maybe one day soon SOE will decide to allow Knights to cast on the run again, then the SK would be in a fine position.I too thought my class would be a solo powerhouse when I started on this server, but at the time I didn't realise just how devastating an effect the stun immunity timers would have on a solo bruiser. As you get higher level, a bruiser dps becomes less and less impressive too. Long gone are the times in the early 20s when I could 3-4 shot an even level. Nowadays I can blow all 10 of my damage CAs into an even con scout and not even get him to half.I accepted my position, made myself a lot of moonstone jewelery, got some good mitigation armour, put my taunts/stone deaf/closed mind/feign death/mend in easy to reach hotkey positions, went into defensive stance and became a PvP tank. It's up to Lenny, Mellina, Suffa, Mono and Esqi to do the dps now. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

Arciahand

06-08-2006, 09:17 AM

Wait a sec, our Mez works at a short range, I catch runners with it, also, our first AA gives us +5% in combat run speed, that helps catch the runners. Not saying no one ever gets away from me, they do all the time but our fear and Mez work real well at a short range. Get the Stamina line and you get a ranged attack that drops their max HPs, a great fight opener.

Ramglob

06-08-2006, 10:10 AM

Cool Zizz. Thanks for the advice. I really do like my SK. I feel that it is a great compliment to any group especially in PVP. It makes it a lot easier to take down Matey right before he evacs lol. It just gets freaking frustrating when a level 50 bot (true story) can just run away from you at the tent in Everfrost and you can do nothing but just run after it. I got my snare off but simply couldn't close the distance as it wore off. Freaking embarrassing. It gets a bit frustrating when hunting with a Brig as well. I just try to get a spell off so I can get some faction. He kills them so freaking fast now. 4-5 levels above as well. I love the guild by the way. Lenny and I feel honored to be in it. We are both noobs and are still learning this game. You guys have taught us a lot. I need to get with you on Jewelery by the way. My stuff blows <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Zigmun

06-08-2006, 01:53 PM

"also, our first AA gives us +5% in combat run speed, that helps catch the runners." Your first swing will put u in combat - dropping your speed - and as long as your target continues running they will actually run faster than you (as they remain out of combat). Mezz? well as soon as you damage them your runner will break mezz and continue on their merry way. I notice you are lvl 49 - well you are in for a shock my friend - Bruisers really start to lose their edge in later levels - and other classes get much much more powerful. I used to kill other players in 4-5 hits - at 65 I can't do that anymore unless thier casters. And even then some well played casters can really mess you up.

TheSummoned

06-08-2006, 04:31 PM

<blockquote><hr>Zigmund9 wrote:<div></div> "also, our first AA gives us +5% in combat run speed, that helps catch the runners." Your first swing will put u in combat - dropping your speed - and as long as your target continues running they will actually run faster than you (as they remain out of combat). Mezz? well as soon as you damage them your runner will break mezz and continue on their merry way. I notice you are lvl 49 - well you are in for a shock my friend - Bruisers really start to lose their edge in later levels - and other classes get much much more powerful. I used to kill other players in 4-5 hits - at 65 I can't do that anymore unless thier casters. And even then some well played casters can really mess you up. <hr></blockquote>Speed is in combat not out of combat so you won't lose the AA speed if you enter combat. I disagree with bruisers losing the edge at later levels. I'll even go as far and say that bruisers really shine in their late 50s. The thing with the 4-5 hits is this. People in their early game won't really put that much focus on gear and spell/CA upgrades. They usually start focusing on these in their 40s, sometimes 50s. Just look at a plate tank in the 30s and a tank in their 60s. The 30s tank will have enough mitigation to absorb about 40ish % of incoming trauma attacks, while the 60s tank will have enough mitigation to absorb atleast 60% of incoming trauma attacks. It's not that bruisers begin to lose their edge, it's others gaining exceptional gear and if you can't keep up with them, then it's game over in PvP.<div></div>

Owa

06-08-2006, 04:57 PM

I'm 66 atm and it does seem that we lose our edge we 'progress'. Simply put, I think our skill set is too simple - damage stun damage - and doesn't scale effectively, especially with classes like swashbucklers, furies, templars etc who can either riposte us to death and/or heal more rapidly than we can hit. I know (almost) everyone on this board is grateful to SoE for deciding not to nerf us even more - but frankly I think we could do with a boost - in PvP at least. Either: We need our DPS boosted to such a point that we can take down classes more effectively or, We need to have new tactical skills which we can use to counter, 'rock paper scissors'-style, what other classes can do to us - rather than always having to just DPS stun and hope for the best. (Close Mind and Stone Deaf are the best tactical skills we have - and against well-played scout and healer classes they're not really effective.) Take a look at, for one example, the Swashy skill set post-60 and compare it to ours. We're kind of getting shafted PvP-wise.