Ok Listen up troops

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV>Time has come to stop the complaining and deal with it , wether we like it or not the changes are gonna come and they are going to hit us hard , we can AVOID the enevitable as much as we can but just like our class when we get hit we take a huge smack in the face.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know you all LOVE being a brusier regardless of what the devs want to do for us we are still the coolest [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] class in the game , we laugh at the devs attempt to keep us down but you know what all these changes in the long run will end up helping us .. why ? well 2 reasons</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) all the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] FOTM players will FO back to rangers leaving the old school behind to mop up the mess</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Look at what happened to rangers when they got nurfed so badly , soe spent the next 3 patches cleaning up the mess they made of them.   They will realise the total cockup they made and have to get it sorted</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have to keep positive (ahem moor btw get your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on your bruiser and tell us the new changes dont totally suck [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] btw !!) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Time to stand up and take a beating just like we are supposed to , AFTER LU24 is when we fight back :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Junaru]

I've always said. If you want to enjoy your class, don't read the message boards. <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[Parasite]

<DIV>Hellow All</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was just wondering when was the last time a Developper actually took a look at these posts ?<BR>Let alone reply to it giving us any information whatsoever bout their vision of the class.<BR>I still don't know what i'm supposed to be except a darn sexy leezard with some cool moves but no real group let alone raid value.<BR><BR>In T6 I tought we'd be great tanks, In T7 I found we are nothing of that but rather more DPS </DIV> <DIV>Now i find myself unable to tank most mobs xcept the ones that i am intended to tank ( 2 mobs to be precise in raid environment )</DIV> <DIV>And being outdps'ed occasionaly by a guardian and almost everytime by a zerker when there are more then 2 mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no idea why we are getting stomped even harder down the dps ladder but i'm playing an assassin alt now.<BR>At least i know i'll have DPS as a main purpose. I Miss my Feign Death as hell and avoidance as well in solo and group content</DIV> <DIV>I'll do more dps and not have to worry bout getting agro, au contraire i'll actually have something to offer the guild now instead of lousy dps and </DIV> <DIV>just trap triggering / wipe FD. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But yes i do hope we get restored somewhat. Rangers being like invisible on parser list atm don't rly count as a fix to me tough ...</DIV> <DIV>But i hope for the best. What i do not understand is that monks already top most bruisers in most cases on dps so why is this nerf directed at us so badly ?</DIV> <DIV>I really don't get it. Do they hope we all betray to monk so they can delete the class and not have to worry bout it ?</DIV> <DIV>Their masters already seem like so [Removed for Content] scarce ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Greetings</DIV>

[TrentKillcu]

I don't know about the rest of you but I think I'm more tired of seeing these "always look on the bright side of life" posts.Bruisers are getting hit hard and most of the hits that we are getting are not being explained.  That's just not cool and I'm not going to sit here and eat the shi7 they hand me and ask for seconds.Sorry, just not my style and it shouldn't be yours either if you're playing a bruiser.<div></div>

[Tasye]

I switched from my ranger (57) to bruiser (now 50) after the class-destroying ranger nerf, and let me tell ya, rangers aren't fixed, nor will they ever be.<div></div>

[djinnz]

<DIV>it'll be right whatever they do, bruisers do a  lil to much damage im sure deep down we all except that, soe are going over board as usual, its like being stuck in ground hog day playing a soe game, they will over nerf then [artially fix, then realease over powering skills when the competition next releae a ame, then they will over nerf, then they wil...... and round and round we go</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV> <DIV>What's the matter fellow bruisers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On raids, I can pull down 700 DPS sustained with no one buffing me (I was stuck in group 4 with a bunch of templars and folks buffing others). With buffs and mana regen I can do over 1k sustained.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've found that I have nearly as good mitigation, and way better avoidance than most non-fabled out plate tanks. I'm wearing not a single piece of fabled gear, and I haven't even gotten my BP yet from Xhorroz in the claymore line (let alone the other nice pieces).</DIV> <DIV>I've found that I can handle tanking situations better than most others out there, unless they are actually a well played tank (that thought about his gear a little bit).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My single best piece of equipment is my enbringer leggings, followed by some dark chitin rings... other than that, my gear can be obtained off dinky little quests or green nameds, or purchased off the broker for dirt cheap (mitts of the restrainer anyone?).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have no trouble tanking in HoF... I've tanked the Ishtaran with just a 70 Defiler, 70 Warden, and a 67 Swashy. Only the Defiler was decked out in any way, not that it mattered.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really, unless your whole point in playing this game is to be hardcore raid MT, then Bruiser should be enough [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] kickin' for ya. Be a bit more choosey about your equipment, your combat art upgrades, and who you play with. Bad players can tear down your group, no matter who they are... that same group I took down the Ishtaran in HoF with couldn't handle him when we had a Paladin and Necro (both 70) with us. Then again... I had nearly as much mitigation as the pally, without my mitigation buff on...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even with the update, we are still going to pull down over 1k sustained DPS on raids.. 3 combat arts do make up the grand total of our DPS, neither did the 4% of crit chance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I challenge you doomsayers... make a lvl 1 Bruiser on Test. Go to the bell and head on over to the adventure pack beta, and buff up to your level. You'll get a bunch of standard legendary gear and all adept 3s. See how "bad" it really is.... one of those "don't take my word for it" situations.</DIV></DIV>

[Zigmun]

<P>Raidi, </P> <P>Because as usual (and I see this a lot from high lvl Bruisers) "the changes don't affect me - so I don't see a problem" - you don't speak for all Bruisers - you speak for yourself a Bruiser who is lvl 70.</P> <P>There are 1-60 lvls you are not speaking for.</P> <P>If you are lvl 70, the mezz nerf (shorter duration and put on same timer as fear) means nothing - because in most cases you won't be using it.</P> <P>But don't forget your brothers who are leveling up.</P> <P>If you belong to a good guild and have a solid group to play with then the reduction in dps/the reduction in stun duration/the removal of kd out of sucker punch won't affect you - but again if you are a soloing Bruiser (many pick this class because they can solo well) these changes will affect you.</P> <P>So Raidi although I realize you have good intentions, but just becuase the changes don't affect you - doesn't mean it doesn't affect anyone else.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[J4k]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Parasiteke wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hellow All</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was just wondering when was the last time a Developper actually took a look at these posts ?<BR>Let alone reply to it giving us any information whatsoever bout their vision of the class.<BR>I still don't know what i'm supposed to be except a darn sexy leezard with some cool moves but no real group let alone raid value.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Devs dont actually read our posts. They actually have made a program ( instead of fixing ingame problems ) which highlights certain words which they have put into the program and if 2 or more of these words are highlighted in any post the post is then locked or deleted. Thats my theory and im sticking to it.

[neon_24]

<DIV>       I think i have to agree with Dark even with the dmg cuts to our CA's when we are put in the right group for a raid (zerker, Inq, dirge, defiler, assassin, ME) i will put out good dps numbers and if the HP and def buffs are placed on me i can pickup and hold any mob if the MT were to drop. As far as tanking i only do it when required like on the 3 Princes and it went off without any issues.</DIV> <DIV>       I guess i am just fortunate to be in a exceptional raiding guild that knows what i am capable of and takes advantage of it.</DIV> <DIV>They can do whatever they want to Bruisers this will be the only class i play in EQ2 to the end game.</DIV>

[QuantumArti]

<blockquote><hr>Zigmund9 wrote:<div></div> <p>Raidi, </p> <p>Because as usual (and I see this a lot from high lvl Bruisers) "the changes don't affect me - so I don't see a problem" - you don't speak for all Bruisers - you speak for yourself a Bruiser who is lvl 70.</p> <p>There are 1-60 lvls you are not speaking for.</p> <p>If you are lvl 70, the mezz nerf (shorter duration and put on same timer as fear) means nothing - because in most cases you won't be using it.</p> <p>But don't forget your brothers who are leveling up.</p> <p>If you belong to a good guild and have a solid group to play with then the reduction in dps/the reduction in stun duration/the removal of kd out of sucker punch won't affect you - but again if you are a soloing Bruiser (many pick this class because they can solo well) these changes will affect you.</p> <p>So Raidi although I realize you have good intentions, but just becuase the changes don't affect you - doesn't mean it doesn't affect anyone else.</p><hr></blockquote>I'm new to EQ2, so take my words with a grain of salt... I really dont see the problem either. My level 27 bruiser (my main and very first character) is a total booty kicker. I'm not only dishing out massive damage, I'm quite often main tank as well. More often then not, the entire party hinges on my performance. I'm the epicenter of the group. I cant tell you how many comments I get about the kill spam I achieve at my level. I solo mostly, because I can. Elites.... no problem. Multiples? No problem. In short, bruiser rox. Ogre Bruiser particularly rocks. If they nerf the lower levels (as I understand it there is very little difference at level 70) then your race will make all the more difference. I expect my Ogre bruiser to continue to rock, because his stats work with bruiser, and will shore up any of the shortcommings of being low level character. Those of you that went isikar and kerran.... what where you guys thinking? Bruisers are born to be ogres or trolls.... hahahaha.<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<P>Daveke , </P> <P>I know how you feel my friend , however do you think for one second that zerkers are going to remain untouched  ? just like when we were overpowered during the release of DOF they are enjoying the non-dev attention atm , once soe screw all the classes with these new changes are zerkers remain hitting 2k dps ill will bring attention to them :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>You cant see it coming , you cant escape it .. the nurf strikes without warning leaving destruction in its wake ..</P> <P>personally i think a lot of these changes are being brought in to bring everything in line with the new expansion pack due out , its gonna be a major patch job after these hit we all know it , seen it so many times before .. just why oh why do soe do it to themselves :mansad:</P> <P> </P>

[CosmicAcidGu]

<blockquote><hr>neon_24 wrote:<div>        when we are put in the right group for a raid (zerker, Inq, dirge, defiler, assassin, ME) i will put out good dps numbers </div><hr></blockquote>my issue with the bruiser nerfing is this: I want to be better dps than plate tanks even when I'm not in a perfect group. You can't say we are doing fine because there are classes that can buff up our dps. Because those classes buff up a guardian's dps just as well. Finnster<div></div>

[Lizardling]

<DIV>or zerkers... and when its zerkers they can outdps us by quite a bit. Not to mention theyre preferred tanks and in most situations better tanks. I feel so unwanted as a bruiser these days, it feels like were making our way down the list towards #1 useless class very quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Lizardling on <span class=date_text>06-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 AM</span>

[neon_24]

<div></div><div></div>        Yea i see what your sayin Fin but if they were to make us a class that could do that kinda DPS while in a group full of no haste/dps mod buffers then would we not truely be what everyone is wrongly saying we are right this moment? But i know that my opinions atm are based on the fact that i have not always been in the situation i am now i just recently (post KoS) joined a successful high end raiding guild and am starting to see what our class is capable of when given some of the best gear in the game. Don't get me wrong i have played a bruiser since right before LU13 and have loved it since day one but have never been as fortunate in gear and spells etc... as i am right now so i do not have the same base for comparison of how we used to be so many LU's where i was wearing crummy treasured and the rare legendary peice where as now i am fabled out except for my leggins and a few peices of jewlery.        Regardless as i said before i will still play my bruiser and laugh everytime someone calls for a bruiser nerf just because they cannot be as sexy as us. Don't get me wrong in now way am i defending these changes or agreeing with them i am just trying to convey that <b>FOR ME</b> they are not class or game breaking and i will still love to play my bruiser. <div></div><p>Message Edited by neon_24 on <span class="date_text">06-06-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:03 AM </span></p> <p><span class="time_text">and it looks like the Devs do read these boards after seeing that locked thread. </span></p><p>Message Edited by neon_24 on <span class=date_text>06-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:23 AM</span>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lizardling wrote:<BR> <DIV>or zerkers... and when its zerkers they can outdps us by quite a bit. Not to mention theyre preferred tanks and in most situations better tanks. I feel so unwanted as a bruiser these days, it feels like were making our way down the list towards #1 useless class very quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Lizardling on <SPAN class=date_text>06-06-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:32 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Completely agree with zerks , they are massivly overpowered atm hence why they keep very quiet about things !</P> <P>Theres is coming .... watch this space :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neon_24 wrote:<BR>         Yea i see what your sayin Fin but if they were to make us a class that could do that kinda DPS while in a group full of no haste/dps mod buffers then would we not truely be what everyone is wrongly saying we are right this moment? But i know that my opinions atm are based on the fact that i have not always been in the situation i am now i just recently (post KoS) joined a successful high end raiding guild and am starting to see what our class is capable of when given some of the best gear in the game. Don't get me wrong i have played a bruiser since right before LU13 and have loved it since day one but have never been as fortunate in gear and spells etc... as i am right now so i do not have the same base for comparison of how we used to be so many LU's where i was wearing crummy treasured and the rare legendary peice where as now i am fabled out except for my leggins and a few peices of jewlery. <BR>       Regardless as i said before i will still play my bruiser and laugh everytime someone calls for a bruiser nerf just because they cannot be as sexy as us.<BR><BR>Don't get me wrong in now way am i defending these changes or agreeing with them i am just trying to convey that <B>FOR ME</B> they are not class or game breaking and i will still love to play my bruiser.<BR> <P>Message Edited by neon_24 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-06-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:03 AM<BR></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text><FONT color=#ffff00>and it looks like the Devs do read these boards after seeing that locked thread.</FONT><BR></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by neon_24 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-06-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:23 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>We know moor reads all this we just hope he helps us get a bit of balance back thats all , like said previously i love my brusier and no matter what he will always be my brusier i aint no monk im chuck norris FTW<BR>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>Skimming the boards this morning, I noticed a new thread that had been locked.  Not too uncommon, but reading through it, I didn't see too much that should have raised more than a warning from the mods.  While it was a rather pessamistic view of what our class has gone through over the past few months, it was essentially the same tone as many of the threads that have occured since LU 24 was announced.  What I found most interesting was that it was locked 15 minutes after it was written by none other than Moorgard himself.  Personally I found this especially interesting due to the fact that he often stops by and explains why changes are being made.  However, he and many of the other devs have been utterly silent with the most recent LU 24 changes.  While SOE is notorious for making changes then not explaining them beyond "we feel that they are for the best long-term health of the game", it is disheartening that they will take the time to lock threads that have some resonance of truth but not even create a mod only thread that they can respond to the biggest questions to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>Edit: A pity this is the style you picked for your first post. Please note the posted rules about bypassing the profianity filter, as well as suggestions on how to offer criticism in a way that will be read and listened to.</FONT></STRONG></P> <P>Message Edited by Moorgard on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>06-06-2006</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:58 AM</SPAN> </P> <P> </P> <P>I post this in reply only because stuff like this is a large factor in why people get so irate and unconsoleable due to perceived nerfs.  Hard to keep your chin up when you keep getting socked in the face.</P></DIV>

[Owa]

<BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>Edit: Please don't attribute things to me that I didn't say, even in jest.</FONT></STRONG></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Moorgard on <span class=date_text>06-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:19 PM</span>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>PMSL ! sorry but I liked that owain <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Moorgard on <span class=date_text>06-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:20 PM</span>

[Gobbwin]

<P>HAHAHA!  Something even funnier and ultimately sadder than what occured in my previous post happened.  I just noticed that someone had copied the original message (the one that is locked) and pasted it into a new thread as well as a response that was basically whats up SOE, why all the hate?  There was one reply (I believe from zigmond).  I chuckled at it for a minute or two then hit reply to throw in my 2 cents, but couldn't...the thread was no longer there.  So not only are they now locking threads that resonate truth, but they are deleting them.  I could understand if it was someone calling for the devs to be fired or worse, but when its someone asking what the devs are thinking while providing a rather complete list of all of the nerfs that our class has undergone in the past few months is something else entirely.  As far as I can tell, the score stands as such:</P> <OL> <LI>Our suggestions are ignored (although there are numerous ones that are relatively good and easy to impliment). Read targeted changes VS sweeping changes.</LI> <LI>Very little info is provided from the devs.  The explanations on stuns and a few of the other things in this LU, while not fully understood or agreed with, are appreciated in that at least they enlighten us as to the thought processes behind the decisions.  However, there are numerous other changes that aren't being explained and feel like the devs would prefer we turn a blind eye to them.</LI> <LI>Posts that are mostly billerigant ranting are mod edited/locked</LI> <LI>Posts that point out the truth and history of events are immediately locked or deleted.</LI></OL> <P>Funny how devs can visit the forums and do #s 3 and 4 but can't spare 30 seconds to reply to #s 1 and/or 2.  </P> <P> </P> <P>SOE's new motto should be: Ignorance welcome, those w/ common sense or memories longer than the previous LU need not apply.</P>

[tupercent]

<P>I also tried to respond to that post and was deleted so they are definetly reading these, but not commenting.  I really think the answer was just to delete our mez I could have lived with that better then this sledge hammer nerf.  I have never been this mad at soe and I have played since release. </P> <P>All I can do now is wait for lu24  rocking in the fetal position all rain man style saying hot water burn baby...hot water burn baby</P> <P> </P> <P>Proh 70 Bruiser</P> <P>The Bazaar Server</P>

[RustyB]

funny I thought our Mezz being changed was the worst nerf of all.  you really wouldn't mind if they just deleted it?

[Owa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face=Garamond size=4></FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class=date_text>06-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:26 AM</span>

[Gobbwin]

<P>Owain makes some good points.  Unexplained censorship in a country that's all about freedom of speech/press/thought will never be well received.  It is usually viewed as deceptive and underhanded.  And I'm sorry to say Steve, but responses like this don't really help the situation either.</P> <P> </P> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>Edit: Threads get locked all the time for the same reason this one is. It's no mystery; the forum guidelines are posted for all to see.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>You might also draw the conclusion that my quick locks are evidence that I and other team members read class boards like this--a lot.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>The reasons the other thread was locked (and the reaction thread deleted) were clear. Reposting about a locked thread will result in the new thread being deleted; this is also posted on the forums.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Moorgard on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>06-06-2006</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:18 PM</SPAN> </P> <P> </P> <P>I have read many of your posts and edit messages on both the Bruiser boards and LU 24 in general.  Eventhough I'm a relatively open minded individual who tries to find the silver-lining in things, I still feel that many your responses and actions are clear as mud.  Granted, there really isn't any way in hell you (and the rest of the devs) can respond to the litterally thousands of forum posts each day and still get anything done.  However, while it may be good intentioned to take time to skim over and lock/delete threads with nothing more than a "you violated SOE Forum rule # 218, Section B, Paragraph 12", but it doesn't really explain anything or provide understanding, it only causes more frustration and disappointment. </P> <P> </P> <P>Edited for clarity (still early, need coffee).</P><p>Message Edited by Gobbwin on <span class=date_text>06-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 AM</span>