Someone please explain to me Bruisers utility to a raid?

[Zigmun]

<DIV>Yes I've read the posts, but I'm not convinced. So someone please answer the following questions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am in a guild with 4 Guardians, One Bruiser (me), 2 SK's and a Beserker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why would they use me as MT? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mobs with poison? Honestly - they let me tank these as a favor - they don't really need me to tank em - their just really nice about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Up til now I used to take great pride in the ability to park a mob and mezz it off to the side (one of the primary reasons I rolled up a Bruiser) and this is only something I do when in guild groups - in raids they would rather I didn't and left it to others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that I really can't see a role beyond DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you can say I have taunts and rescue for when the MT goes down, and I do, but usually I get yelled at - let the Guardians do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't really argue thier point. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Geez they don't even like me using my intercept - says it screws up the healers and where they are focused - which is keeping the MT up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pulling? With the way mobs are linked tell me why it would make more sense for the Bruiser to pull over a Guardian. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what does a Bruiser bring to a raid in terms of utility?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[The Punisher]

Bruisers shouldn't be MT in a raid plain and simple.  Just because you can tank solo and group mobs doesn't mean you can tank a raid mob.  Sure you can pull decent hate, but leather armor simply lacks proper mitigation to effectively hold off a raid mob long enough for a raid to kill it.  Save MT for plate armored characters and stick to support DPS in raids, you'll be much more effective.

[kingfish]

<P>Bruisers are very rarely used in raiding; here are the few things i get to do</P> <P>. group leader of the dps group because of our buff, we don't have a coercer</P> <P>. occasionaly i am used to offtank an add</P> <P>. feign death when it all goes awry, this used to be something that made me proud, being the only one to survive a wipe and getting a healer up fast, now it seems everyone has fd half the raid gets back up, swashies brigands sk's necros</P> <P>. what i am used for the most? setting off traps, " alright steel, go down that hallway see if anything jumps on you"</P> <P> </P> <P>Sadly bruisers are really not that needed in a raid I can't see any raid group having more than one, Main tanking is almost out of the question sure it could be done, but why? Few times I have tried to grab a loose epic i either get slammed before the priests know what happened or a plate rescues it off me and sneers "let the tanks handle it"</P>

[neon_24]

    wow you guys must be in some brawler hater guilds i am in on every raid and i usally end up tankin more than once before the night is over be it intenitonaly or cause i just rip. Last night i tanked Gorenaire pretty easy he hits like a little girl, and everytime we go into Halls of Seeing i tank the 1hitter quitter mob more than anyone else cause i can avoid his 19k special auto attack more times than a guard can and keep him off the rest of the raid better than a guard who will hit the deck everytime he dose that. <div></div>

[DobyMT]

We generally have a bruiser or two on the raids, they are really good dps, and can tank T7 zones easily, with a decent avoidance.Our main Bruiser has tanked All of Labs, Lyceum, and HoS.Avoidance tanks ftw.  They are fun to raid with.<div></div>

[kingfish]

<P>Don't get me wrong, I'm in a bad mood today, Bruisers can tank t7 raid mobs. But with the sk/palies ability to be completely immune to fear and guards/ zerkers generating more hate in multiple mob encounters. I just don't view myself as a completely viable option to tank when i have the others present.</P> <P>As for DPS, there was a point when I was proud of the damage i did in a raid, but with the upcoming combat changes/nerfs to bruisers and the just over all negativity that arises when the subject of our dps is brought up, i refuse to comment on it</P>

[neon_24]

imo they can do whatever they want to us nerf our dmg nerf our tankin but were still gonna be the badass that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] slaps the monks and takes all the chicks at the end of the day <div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> The Punisher wrote:<BR> Bruisers shouldn't be MT in a raid plain and simple.  Just because you can tank solo and group mobs doesn't mean you can tank a raid mob.  Sure you can pull decent hate, but leather armor simply lacks proper mitigation to effectively hold off a raid mob long enough for a raid to kill it.  Save MT for plate armored characters and stick to support DPS in raids, you'll be much more effective.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>ROFLCOPTERS!<BR>

[Arathy]

<div><blockquote><hr>neon_24 wrote:    wow you guys must be in some brawler hater guilds i am in on every raid and i usally end up tankin more than once before the night is over be it intenitonaly or cause i just rip. <b>Last night i tanked Gorenaire pretty easy he hits like a little girl</b>, and everytime we go into Halls of Seeing i tank the 1hitter quitter mob more than anyone else cause i can avoid his 19k special auto attack more times than a guard can and keep him off the rest of the raid better than a guard who will hit the deck everytime he dose that. <div></div><hr></blockquote>"He" is a female.. which may explain why <b>she </b>hits like a girl. <span>:smileywink:</span></div>

[TheSummoned]

I can think of FD, accuracy debuff and our good (not awsome) DPS. But the latter is being nerfed a lot, so the debuff and FD, which is NOT going to save a spot in the raid for us. Moorgard should never have posted those [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] DPS tiers!!! <div></div>

[Madmoon]

<P>This is one of those ENDLESS arguements, and you can see it on any class board.  Same with the upcoming nerf, <EM>everyone</EM> is complaining; it's not a bruiser nerf.  Mind, I have my issues with it, too, but even the Enchanters are upset and supposedly it is for them.  I think nine times out of ten, it is ego, and not gameplay.</P> <P>First, obviously one has no issues raiding i-f  o-n-e  i-s  r-a-i-d-i-n-g.  See?  One cannot have an issue unless there is an issue.  For every person complaining about the role of a bruiser in a raid, there are dozens of other bruisers raiding.  And usually the person complaining is raiding, too.  Where's the issue?  Even if someone were to be excluded on a raid because they are a bruiser, I would suggest you find another guild.  If they are that picky, trust me, you can find better.</P> <P>Second, we are a utility class and a DPS class.  Yes, utility.  We don't do any one thing as well as any other class, but we do them all well.  So, if a platehead loses agro, I can regain it off the healer.  If the enchanter can't park an add, I can.  If something is missed, I can usually cover.  And as far as DPS - most of the time, we rank very high.  Again, maybe not the highest, not the best (although that does happen,) but very high.  If the issue is that we are not the best at any one thing, who cares?  We bring many cards to the table, not just one.  My ego is more than gratified by what I <STRONG>do</STRONG> bring, than any fanciful notion of what I ought to bring.  Nobody invites me because of my class.  They invite me because I am <U>good</U>.</P> <P>Redmouser, Bruiser</P><p>Message Edited by Madmoon on <span class=date_text>05-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:21 PM</span>

[J4k]

<DIV>Sure bruisers can tank and can dps but they arnt the best at either. I still stand b ymy opinion that haveing 6 different types of tanks is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in this game. In eq1 having a  72 person raid MAYBe  it would make more sense but not here. I have always and still do believe monks and bruisers should be dps. being able to tank is like a substitue for not having deagro. We pull aggro and can take a few hits or avoid a few hits for A) the guardian or what ever to get aggro back or B) for us to Feign death. As far as utility we can get a 24% dps buff.We can save out selves from having to spend alot of money on repair bills AND we can decrease peicing, crushing and slashing of a mob by 50 ( honestly doesnt make much of a difference imo but what ever )!!! gogo utility. Oh ya we can use alot of stuns that dont stun because epics are to 1337zs0r for stuns! ... and our ub4r mezz.... and fear which monks are getting soon cause that makes so much sense to give them a new combat art and basically take it away from us by making it useless and on the same timer as our mezz WHICH BY THEY WAY we should feal special being the only class to have 2 DiFFerent combat art lines sharing the same reuse omgzor leet bruiser are unique!</DIV>

[ArcticZero]

<P>To answer the OP you don't bring much utility to any raid. Bruiser utility is for group settings not raids. Stuns, Fear, Mez, etc all work in groups but not in raids. In a raid you are either the tank or dps. Depending on your gear and the ability of the peoples you play with will determine what you can do. </P> <P> </P> <P>The # of bruisers that can tank raid mobs is not that high. It is not the class so much as situation. If you can get fabled out and have talented healers and people to keep truma off you for the most part you can tank things. Issue for the class is with hate but if you have a coercer or dirge to help you out even that can be managed. Any stupid wizard can take aggro in a raid but if you have people in your raid pulling aggro all the time and dying they don't need to be there. </P> <P> </P> <P>You will have to work harder then a plate of equal gear. As to if that is right or not I won't get into cause that is not what this post is about. With your dps being cut if your not tanking the reasons for having you will go down.  Cause if they rely on you for DPS they are stupid for bringing you cause you can be replaced by any number of other dps classes. You don't have a coercer you might be brought for dps buff for the melee folks but if you have a coercer then even that is useless. FD means nothing considering the Necro the SK and all the scouts can have it. We have two that have it. So that makes you the 5th person in the raid with the same spell. That and scout FD is 100% yours at best is 96%.</P>

[Vorham]

Bruiser can tank just fine when given the buffs of an MT.  Problem is most peeps think Bruiser = dps... so you get slapped into the DPS group that has little if any HP, mit, etc buffs...Then your MT goes down, you fire mit buffs/def stances/try to pick up aggro to buy time and get one or two shotted.  Then people say Brawlers can't really tank epics, but we weren't given a fair shot being expected to tank that x4 on the fly, with DPS buffs and not "epic tanking" buffs like Mr. Guard/Zerk usually has.<div></div>

[Bad]

<div><blockquote><hr>The Punisher wrote:<div></div>Sure you can pull decent hate, but leather armor simply lacks proper mitigation to effectively hold off a raid mob long enough for a raid to kill it.<hr></blockquote>I can get self-buffed mitigation of around 4800 for 3 minutes.  With a priest, conjuror, and crusader in the group, that becomes over 6k.A bruiser can easily have sufficient mitigation for any fight shorter than 3 minutes.</div>

[Kasar]

<div><blockquote><hr>J4kik wrote:<div>fear which monks are getting soon cause that makes so much sense to give them a new combat art and basically take it away from us by making it useless and on the same timer as our mezz WHICH BY THEY WAY we should feal special being the only class to have 2 DiFFerent combat art lines sharing the same reuse omgzor leet bruiser are unique!</div><hr></blockquote>My question would be, if a choice is available between a monk and bruiser for a raid, which would be preferred?  The guy that can FD an entire group and heal a group member or the guy that can FD himself and heal himself a bit?  If the DPS and all other utility factors are the same, it seems a no-brainer.They're not equal yet, but the trend seems to be to make it that way.   The deafening silence on direction doesn't help, but is SOP.<font color="#ff0000"></font></div>