nerfing eagle fury?

[nanlee]

<DIV>i just read in blackguards post that they are lowering the crit chance in the eagle fury line.Anyone have anymore info on this? I mean its bad enough with all the cc changes but now  they are starting on our AA's?</DIV><p>Message Edited by nanlee on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:22 PM</span>

[kingfish]

<P>I was just going to post this myself. Can anyone remember when brawlers got a positive change? It's not like are list of AA's was that impressive to begin with. If we are tanks then why are all of our aa's geared towards damage? Guess another change we have to sit and take. What else can be done, maybe they can put are feign and heal on the same timer? Or safefall may give us to much of an advantage over other tanks? bah, i'm still a bruiser do your best</P> <P>P.S. it's been three months any chance our class hat will show up? ever?</P>

[Gungo]

<DIV>Brawler: Int 3: Eagle's Fury: Reduced melee critical chance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hahah this is really jsut sad they are nerfing our tankign (stuns) and DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Bruiser: Instill Doubt: Reduced fear duration, reduced power cost. Increased Resistability. Lowered overall break chances.<BR>- Bruiser: Intimidate: Increased Reuse timer to 60 seconds. Increased Resistability. Reduced Mesmerize duration and power cost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah 12 sec fear was way to long and needed a reduced duration =p</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:35 PM</span>

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>kingfish wrote:<div></div> <p>I was just going to post this myself. Can anyone remember when brawlers got a positive change? It's not like are list of AA's was that impressive to begin with. If we are tanks then why are all of our aa's geared towards damage? Guess another change we have to sit and take. What else can be done, maybe they can put are feign and heal on the same timer? Or safefall may give us to much of an advantage over other tanks? bah, i'm still a bruiser do your best</p> <p>P.S. it's been three months any chance our class hat will show up? ever?</p><hr></blockquote>Well said. So far this LU has nerfed our soloability (we knew that was comming), tanking, and with reduced crits what we bring to a raid. The plan is working... [Removed for Content] us so bruisers roll another fotm (i hear brigs are good) and then theres less bruisers to fight for when it comes to gear/masters<div></div>

[Dahlrek]

<div></div>Mez resistability is now "8% easier" at Adept1.Mez duration/powercost is now: Intimidate 5.5s/35p, Strong Arm 7.0s/53p, Unnerve 8.5s/71p, Scared Still 10.0s/89p.  Recast is 1m.Instill Doubt duration/powercost is now 6s/43p.Eagle's Fury is now 2.3% at Rank 1.  No idea how it scales <insert rant here: knowing how a particular aa abilitiy scales would actually be useful before I spend aa points on it>.All in all, thumbs down.  I was irritated enough when the mez nerf was just the shared timer and 20s duration on a 30s timer.  This just further aggravates me.<div></div>

[Quicksilver74]

<DIV>yup... all the things they take from us now they may end up giving back in the form of new AA's for the next expansion.   Shoot me now please.</DIV>

[Vorham]

this blows...just read the notes... they are absolutely GUTTING mez.  gonna hurt the soloing (at least the tougher/hard nuker mobs) a lotnow eagle fury too...my god... im getting REALLY tired of every update being a nerf for us in one way or another<div></div>

[Maelwy]

<DIV>i have to hope we'll get something to compensate for our nerfs soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tank.  groups, instances, and lower tier raids for the hell of it.  I often tank in small groups, such as bruiser, monk, necro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My aa build is 4448 sta, 44851 int.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The crit chance was crucial to me.  With such a defensive build, it was the one box i could sink some points into that could raise my dps and assist in my aggro retention, especially when grouping with monks (which is about 75% of the time) and necros (about 40% of the time)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe it's too much dps added for the dps bruiser - (like with a 448 sta, 448 wis, 448 int build) because people built that way CAN pump such serious dps out they were overpowered, especially in groups with haste buffers or dps buffs like you'd see while raiding in a dps group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There has to be a better way to fix that tho, than this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for the tanking bruiser, dps is crucial, since the roughhousing proc no longer procs as much as it used to.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>please devs, for the love of all that is holy... get us some fixes in the tanking/defensive realm if you are going to keep nerfing us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>avoidance as a tanking method is severely limited compared to mitigation-  we've seen this talked about for ages.  We got a load of offensive aa's, but very little that really noticeably assists in our tanking.  Defllection and parry are great!  i'm not gonna turn em down... lol.  But WHEN we do get hit, we get ripped up.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's some NON overpowering possible fixes==</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We need a change to our defensive stance. Bump up the mitigation mods on it, and put in a taunt proc, say 10% to add 500 threat (or change our roughousing proc rate to 50%)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Change our spirit line, improving the mitigation on it a bit, or drop the health drain, and change the recast to 1.5 minutes instead of 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd love to see a change to our offensive stance as well (since it's recent nerf left it kind of lacking...), but I understand that the goal is to reduce our dps output to put us more in line with others in a big picture sense...  so maybe just a removal or reduction to our defense penalty in offensive stance would be called for.  (again, based on experience with avoidance, especially avoidance vs epic encounters)</DIV>

[Mantua1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vorham wrote:<BR>this blows...<BR>just read the notes... they are absolutely GUTTING mez.  gonna hurt the soloing (at least the tougher/hard nuker mobs) a lot<BR><BR>now eagle fury too...my god... im getting REALLY tired of every update being a nerf for us in one way or another<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I am with ya Vorham.</P> <P>Going back in my mind it started pretty harmless with the drastic armor quest graphic change. Our dark red (as the devs called it) monk looking gi ended up flamingo pink. Yea ok no one died of embarasment that I know of and it didnt impact game play other then other players lauging so hard they couldnt play.</P> <P>Then they hit everyone hard in the combat revamp (or the first one some would say) way back a while ago. They reduced the amount of dps we did - reduced our avoidance AND our mitigation - AND reduced the effectiveness of the shrug off line. This definatly affected game play - for a lot of players just not bruisers. We took our lumps and continued on.</P> <P>KoS releases and every one gets excited about the class profession hats. No only is our not in the game, not a high priority (after all it not being in the game really does not affect game play) but the only thing we have that might come close is the wok / bowl that is shared by monks. No I am not monkphobic but a little something distinctly ours would be nice. I still have this conspiracey theroy that if and when we get them they will end up beenie caps with propellors or somethign more ridiulas like hankerchiefs tied around our heads biker style. And how bout that relic hat. I dont think I have seen one on anyone yet or at least no one proud enough to show it. /sigh</P> <P>And now we have to endure this.  Im gonna need a lot more beer I think.</P> <P> </P>

[Gungo]

<P>If hate gain is your issue i think they just need to change our hate proc to 50% proc rate like the monks counterpart. And they just need to give us a mitigation AA.</P> <P>I am hoping also our class hat is the bandanna on the Fallen dynasty models. I am also hoping the kimono's becoem brawler gear.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:37 AM</span>

[Mantua1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote: <P>I am hoping also our class hat is the bandanna on the Fallen dynasty models. I am also hoping the kimono's becoem brawler gear.</P> <P>Message Edited by Gungo on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:37 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[Removed for Content] you know it will be the brightest most obscene headache inducing graphic that causes seizures that was ever created.

[Nor]

<P>Yes the nerf bat sucks.</P> <P>Have you ever looked at other class aa's?  Many of them are either craptastic (shaman), or don't make any change at all (druid's that melee? It's fun, but really...come on!).  At least we get some to choose from that are closer to being geared specifically for our class.</P> <P>And don't forget, with new aa's coming out <STRIKE>in 19 months</STRIKE> at the end of the year with the expansions, everything will probably change.  EQ1 aa's built on old ones, so you would need xxx ranks of an old aa to get some of the new ones.</P> <P>Hurray for being "forced" into certain aa's!!</P>

[edyts]

This sucks, If anything monks should have their haste nerfed.  Why they nerfing us again?  Im not gonna be able to solo a thing now.  Thansk SOE.  Its not like they made us good tanks...so dps was all we Had....now we got nothin <div></div>

[mr23sgte]

Man - I always hoped good things for both Brawler classes -- seeing alot of nerf cries :smileysad:

[Gungo]

<P>Truthfully i don't think a 10-15% nerf of monk haste will hurt many monks. For one their max acheivable haste w/o buffs is over 100%. With a 23% haste item they shoul dbe fairly close to 100% again. I am sure the new aa's in EoF will include soem form of haste AA. And even if a monk doesn't acheive 100% sef buffed haste they will still be able to get some benefit from other classes haste effects. Inq, fury, bezerker, illusinist, troubador. As odd as it sounds a small haste nerf will actually benefit monks in some regards.</P> <P>not that i am saying monks should get a haste nerf. I just feel when T8 hits monks are going to have problems in regards to spell upgrades since thier group haste buff, thie roffensive/midsatance haste buff, and thier hp for haste buff, and increased item haste will no longer give monks a tangible benefit. Its another reason why I believe % based spells are bad programming. </P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:55 AM</span>

[Danter]

<DIV>The Devs really need to make up their mind what they want Bruisers to be, and the answer they gave where you can be whatever you want doesn't cut it.  If you want us to be DPS, then stop nerfing our damage.  If you want us to be tanks, then give us some AAs that will help us in tanking and stop taking away the +mit from leather.  If you want us to be pullers, then give us some god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pulling utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My fear is that we're heading in the direction of a gimped tank with second-rate DPS that provides no utility on raids.  If you're going to keep taking stuff away, give us something back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <P>not that i am saying monks should get a haste nerf. I just feel when T8 hits monks are going to have problems in regards to spell upgrades since thier group haste buff, thie roffensive/midsatance haste buff, and thier hp for haste buff, and increased item haste will no longer give monks a tangible benefit. Its another reason why I believe % based spells are bad programming. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haste is dependant among weapons, so even though the % will stay the same, the haste buff will provide more damage because the DR of the weapons and procs will go up in T8.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a Monk can't upgrade their haste buff in T8, it'll still be providing more damage for them than it did in T7 with new T8 weapons. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Kald, 70 Bruiser Permafrost</DIV>

[neon_24]

i just hope that with the changes to the AA's they are goin to give us a free respec. <div></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <P>not that i am saying monks should get a haste nerf. I just feel when T8 hits monks are going to have problems in regards to spell upgrades since thier group haste buff, thie roffensive/midsatance haste buff, and thier hp for haste buff, and increased item haste will no longer give monks a tangible benefit. Its another reason why I believe % based spells are bad programming. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haste is dependant among weapons, so even though the % will stay the same, the haste buff will provide more damage because the DR of the weapons and procs will go up in T8.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a Monk can't upgrade their haste buff in T8, it'll still be providing more damage for them than it did in T7 with new T8 weapons. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Kald, 70 Bruiser Permafrost</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My point danterus is not that they wont recieve a benfit from haste. it is that monks are already capped at 100% haste so when thier offesnsive stance % goes up in T8  they will not recieve additional benefits from the increased haste %. Or the increased hp for haste % or the group Haste %.</P> <P>its like our DPS % buff if they somehow decided to stop upgrading it. It will provide greater damaage in T8 then it does in T7 because our damage per hit is increased thus the % of damage per sec will give it a larger benefit. But with an additional 3% gain (what eahc tier gives) we will in turn recieve additional benefit from our DPS where as a monk haste % remains a static 100%. Do you see what i am saying?</P> <P>% buffs are bad programming it allows for exponential increases in whatever skill it provides. The variable can not be controlled unless arbitrary caps are put into place. <BR></P> <P>Instead of +DPS % they should of programmed it to be +dam per hit. In example each auto atk would do +25 damage. This in turn is a static DPS increase. W/o th eneed for arbitrary caps or future mechanical nerfs due to bad programing. Now i am not saying there is never a case were % can be usedin some regards there is no logical "outside the box" way to program, but whenever a programer sees a % based skill it shoudl raise a giant red flag.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Our heal is a clear example of % spells gone bad. There is no way to upgrade the % without it becoming overpower. Instead they should of left it as a direct HP heal. In example a 2-3k hp heal instead of % based heal. If they wanted it to grow with your HP's they shoudl of changed it from % based upgrade into a duality upgrade in example a 30% or 3khp heal.  The next tier would include a 30% or 4,000hp heal  etc. This in turn keep the spell upgradable with falling into an overpowering scenario. </SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:42 PM</span>

[Radigazt]

OK, Gungo, you mentioned T8.  I'm assuming that you mean levels 71-80, right?  I hope I'm wrong, but the last things I read about the Faydwer expansion (whatever it's exact name is), was that it was not going to raise the level cap, which is currently level 70.  Did SOE change something or make a new announcement about the level cap going up?  Or am I missing something when you mention T8?  I'd love to see the level limit upped to 80 actually, so this is a hopeful post, heh. 

[Gungo]

No but eventually it will. Its an observation on the growth of spells and the ceiling monks have run into regarding haste.

[PhozFa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Maelwys1 wrote:<div>i have to hope we'll get something to compensate for our nerfs soon.</div> <div> </div> <div>I tank.  groups, instances, and lower tier raids for the hell of it.  I often tank in small groups, such as bruiser, monk, necro.</div> <div> </div> <div>My aa build is 4448 sta, 44851 int.</div> <div> </div> <div>The crit chance was crucial to me.  With such a defensive build, it was the one box i could sink some points into that could raise my dps and assist in my aggro retention, especially when grouping with monks (which is about 75% of the time) and necros (about 40% of the time)</div> <div> </div> <div>Maybe it's too much dps added for the dps bruiser - (like with a 448 sta, 448 wis, 448 int build) because people built that way CAN pump such serious dps out they were overpowered, especially in groups with haste buffers or dps buffs like you'd see while raiding in a dps group.</div> <div> </div> <div>There has to be a better way to fix that tho, than this.</div> <div> </div> <div>for the tanking bruiser, dps is crucial, since the roughhousing proc no longer procs as much as it used to.  </div> <div> </div> <div>please devs, for the love of all that is holy... get us some fixes in the tanking/defensive realm if you are going to keep nerfing us.</div> <div> </div> <div>avoidance as a tanking method is severely limited compared to mitigation-  we've seen this talked about for ages.  We got a load of offensive aa's, but very little that really noticeably assists in our tanking.  Defllection and parry are great!  i'm not gonna turn em down... lol.  But WHEN we do get hit, we get ripped up.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Here's some NON overpowering possible fixes==</div> <div> </div> <div>We need a change to our defensive stance. Bump up the mitigation mods on it, and put in a taunt proc, say 10% to add 500 threat (or change our roughousing proc rate to 50%)</div> <div> </div> <div>Change our spirit line, improving the mitigation on it a bit, or drop the health drain, and change the recast to 1.5 minutes instead of 3.</div> <div> </div> <div>I'd love to see a change to our offensive stance as well (since it's recent nerf left it kind of lacking...), but I understand that the goal is to reduce our dps output to put us more in line with others in a big picture sense...  so maybe just a removal or reduction to our defense penalty in offensive stance would be called for.  (again, based on experience with avoidance, especially avoidance vs epic encounters)</div><hr></blockquote>I agree if they are gonna give us so many nerfs (not disagring with some of the nerfs) they should gives us something in return then it would even out. We do high dps and can permalock mobs. Ok take that away but the ability to be more defensive would be great. I like your suggestion about reducing the recast time of the spirit line to 1.5min. Its a proven fact mitigation is superior to avoidance in most epic or even hard mob situations. Other than a Mit AA the only suggestion I have is a Mitigation tap CA (or AA) working similiar to the SK's STR tap. We can weaken our foes while letting us absorb damage. Not only would that help us when tanking but It would also be an utility we can use when not tanking. I would hope It'd make a bruiser/brawler more wanted in a raid situation oh yea you stole my AA set up /evilgrin<span><span></span></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:55 AM</span>

[Gungo]

My build is close but not exactly the same. Its 4/4/8 stamina and 4/8/8/5/1 Int. So instead of 8 deflection i put 4 more into the fist stun and 4 to max out the proc %. but there has been alot of nerfs to this build. Nerifng proc rates, nerfing crit %, nerfing the eagle strike stun. I am thinking of just scrapping the sta line all together and jsut go for the final wis line which is supposedly insane DPS to go 4/4/4/5/1 int and 4/4/4/4/1 Wis. It all really depends on how badly they nerf crits. If its 12% or lower those 4 extra points are better spent elsewhere.

[Maelwy]

<P>2 reasons i wont give up the deflection...</P> <P>1- I am now, and probably will be for months, running guildies thru claymore.  Tons of blue/green mobs, mass pulls, 360 degrees on deflection....</P> <P>2- marr's fist.-  once the proc gets fixed that high deflection will mean tons of proc's</P> <P>but yea, the extra 4 pts in crits will prbably go away and be put into parry, or wis for resist buffage</P> <P> </P>

[Gungo]

not if you can hit 420 skill in deflection w/o those points.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> not if you can hit 420 skill in deflection w/o those points.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Its insanely hard to do that.  I think I could get to 421 with 4 into the deflection AA if I had the Hand of Destruction from the 3 Princes.<BR>

[Gungo]

<P>I tend to build my character with the future in mind. No lvl increase and several new raids( 1x4 instance 1x4 contested and several x2 epics)  and lots of new fabled just from the new adv pack. No rise in tier in the expansion with a ton of new items and raids and the constant mudflation. I think even as a bruiser (w/o transcending vigiliance) i will be able to reach the deflection cap soon enough. So much so i am willign to go w/o the 8 aa points in deflection ~4% avoid. So that i can gain an abiity to do a massive amount of DPS every 5 minutes esepcially in raids that will soon require alot more dps bursts. then again this all depends on how badly hit the crit and eagle strike stun.</P> <P> we will see the other bruiser in guild flame. Who tanks raids more then i do, since i generally play other mro eneeded classes. will still use the hybrid defensive build of 4/4/8 sta and 4/8/8/5/1 Int. </P> <P>You are correct though currently its difficult to cap deflection as it should be. In all honesty this is how it should be. And parry is impossible to cap for a brawler. Defense is redicoulosly easy to cap but i guess that is because every class uses defense where as only fighters and scouts uses parry and only brawlers use deflection.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:39 AM</span>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <P>And parry is impossible to cap for a brawler.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Don't think so, I'm only 5 or 6 away buffed which I could hit with a couple jewelry items with +parry.<BR>

[Gungo]

thats good to hear. There is so few + parry items though.  what T7+ parry jewlery items are you talking about? I havent seen many yet?

[Gaige]

Some ring from HoS has +3 parry.