I think most Bruisers are missing the point...

[Zigmun]

<DIV>As I read the recent posts about the Bruiser "nerfs" it seems to me as most people don't seem to really understand what the "real" issue is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ2 is generally a grouping and at higher lvls a raiding game. In fact to complete most HQ's and the ending of many quests you need a group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not argueing whether or not the Bruiser is a good class or not - imo it is a strong class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now someone from the Bruiser community please tell me who has more group and raid utility the Monk or the Bruiser?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think most people would agree the Monk has more group and raid utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if that's true - what is given to the Bruiser to balance this? Where is our strength in contrast to the Monk?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought it was the ability to solo better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I am wrong - someone please correct me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I am right - then the Bruiser community has every right to stand up and say to the dev's - you guys are taking the Monk and the Bruiser classes (with the proposed changes) in the wrong direction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why does this concern me so?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, I am one of the lucky ones. I belong to a very strong guild, and I am the only high level Bruiser in my guild. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I continually see one thing - Bruisers lfg in the lvl channels. Is this indicitive of something? Do other Bruisers not see this problem? Or because like me their in a good guild and always have access to a group - and just don't see it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if Bruisers have trouble getting groups, and our ability to solo is being slowly eroded by small little nerfs and game balance changes here and there.... at what point does the Bruiser community say:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Heh, do the dev's have a vision for us? What is it? In a primarily rading and grouping game?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it's time to stop the snipping and to become advocates for all Bruisers, as a class - regardless of their playing style. If someone enjoys raiding, and you enjoy soloing - maybe think about that when you respond to posts. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ShinmaRyche]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zigmund9 wrote:<BR> <DIV>As I read the recent posts about the Bruiser "nerfs" it seems to me as most people don't seem to really understand what the "real" issue is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ2 is generally a grouping and at higher lvls a raiding game. In fact to complete most HQ's and the ending of many quests you need a group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not argueing whether or not the Bruiser is a good class or not - imo it is a strong class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now someone from the Bruiser community please tell me who has more group and raid utility the Monk or the Bruiser?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think most people would agree the Monk has more group and raid utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if that's true - what is given to the Bruiser to balance this? Where is our strength in contrast to the Monk?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought it was the ability to solo better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I am wrong - someone please correct me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I am right - then the Bruiser community has every right to stand up and say to the dev's - you guys are taking the Monk and the Bruiser classes (with the proposed changes) in the wrong direction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why does this concern me so?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, I am one of the lucky ones. I belong to a very strong guild, and I am the only high level Bruiser in my guild. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I continually see one thing - Bruisers lfg in the lvl channels. Is this indicitive of something? Do other Bruisers not see this problem? Or because like me their in a good guild and always have access to a group - and just don't see it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if Bruisers have trouble getting groups, and our ability to solo is being slowly eroded by small little nerfs and game balance changes here and there.... at what point does the Bruiser community say:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Heh, do the dev's have a vision for us? What is it? In a primarily rading and grouping game?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it's time to stop the snipping and to become advocates for all Bruisers, as a class - regardless of their playing style. If someone enjoys raiding, and you enjoy soloing - maybe think about that when you respond to posts. </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>This question has been asked before, by me even, heh. <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=15644#M15644" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=15644#M15644</A> Its my belief that they dont have a vision for us, which is why the bruisers ride the nerf/buff rollercoaster the most.</FONT><BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>You see tons of bruisers LFG because everyone and their grandmas dog rolled one. Huge FotM. These adjustments will hopefully cause players to abandon the bruiser class. Ive played a bruiser since launch, and will continue once of all the FotMs have cleared out.</FONT></P>

[BtilTheMage]

<DIV><FONT color=#cc0033>Don't see many at all on my server actually.  They are tied with Warlocks most of the time.</FONT></DIV>

[Revjak18]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zigmund9 wrote:<div>As I read the recent posts about the Bruiser "nerfs" it seems to me as most people don't seem to really understand what the "real" issue is.</div> <div> </div> <div>EQ2 is generally a grouping and at higher lvls a raiding game. In fact to complete most HQ's and the ending of many quests you need a group.</div> <div> </div> <div>I'm not argueing whether or not the Bruiser is a good class or not - imo it is a strong class.</div> <div> </div> <div>Now someone from the Bruiser community please tell me who has more group and raid utility the Monk or the Bruiser?</div> <div> </div> <div>I think most people would agree the Monk has more group and raid utility.</div> <div> </div> <div>So if that's true - what is given to the Bruiser to balance this? Where is our strength in contrast to the Monk?</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Well, back in DoF, i would say that we had procs which back then we're far more superior to the monks self haste.  I used to wipe the floor with monks on the dps charts.  Now though I guess our advantage would be 1.  our mitigation buffs are better(not really that good raid utility though) and 2. if you look at Bruiser's CA dmg to Monks ours destroys them.  In my experience though to make up for it we do have better dps still than monks(at least for me and the other bruiser in SD.)  Monk dps is closer to ours than in DoF but most of the time my dps is anywhere from 50-200 over the two monks in SD.Effrum70 Bruiser of Second DawnNajena</div>

[Falwen]

<DIV>There are VERY few bruisers on my server.  It is one of the least played classes, probably next to coercers and illusionists, and maybe brigands.  </DIV>

[ganjookie]

Alot of Bruisers on PvP servers.  normal servers still have low bruiser population thank goodness<div></div>

[Hawgeous]

<DIV>the forum munster ate my message and im to lazy to retype it so <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Hawgeous on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:13 PM</span>

[Madmoon]

<P>First, I don't think they envision ANY class to be more group or more solo-able.  I think some classes, because of the way they are envisioned, <EM>end up</EM> being more group or raid friendly, usually at a trade-off that they solo poorly, but in either case, because of the way they are constructed within their class, not within a concept of solo vs. raid.  I agree that they have a less than perfect concept of the bruiser class, but I doubt they spend all too much time going, "Wait, wait, how does that fit in with the fact that are exceptional solo-ers?"  I think they build the class as a specific type, and then it falls out that they can solo or not, but their first notion is how that class is defined (fighter, scout, etc.) and then how that class is balanced against other classes and against content (solo, group and raid.)  Then probably a whole slew of programming decisions (can we even code it.)  Last, if ever, is whether or not they want them to be soloers or raiders.</P> <P>I think if we went to them and said, "Hey, we're supposed to be great at soloing, even distinguished at it," they'd laugh us out of the building, and give us the pat answer, "Every class can solo, every class is useful in groups and every class can raid, some do one or the other better, but every class can contribute to all three."  And, more or less, they are right.  I would like to see the bruiser class stand out more, and be less ill-defined, but I solo, I join groups and I raid.  Probably as they intended. /shrug</P> <P>Redmouser, Bruiser AB</P><p>Message Edited by Madmoon on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>