Monks gain a new ability while we lose one ability in the next update! woot! [Archive]

Vorham

05-12-2006, 11:05 AM

<div></div><div></div>Monks have some harcore utility... Tsunami, Group FD... they are the puller masters. Group FD helps a lot.I usually outparse the guild monks by 1-200 unless the Monks are in a sweet melee DPS buff group, and I'm not. There are times, however, that they give me a real run for the money.We've had ZERO luck on T7 brawler fabled tho, no weaps, no relic aside from 1 BP the monk got. Twin Calamities never drop. No new brawler weaps have dropped yet.So we're in T6 fabled atm... or at best t7 legendary. Take that for what it's worth.But...Is that the trade-off? Our DPS advantage vs. their raid advantage? Pulling? Group FD? Their DPS being similar? I dunno.Ive saved a few raids when the MT went down by popping Defense and the Mit buffs which monks lack... but normally being in a DPS group my buffs lack and I get smoked/1 or 2 shotted before healers can keep me up, so it doesn't matter at all.Not sure what my point is. Just seems like Monks are getting yet more utility where they already dominate us in utility (esp. on raids), while our class stays the same and both classes have similar DPS/tanking given the same buffs.I won't say that Stone Deaf/Close Mind/Sonic Fist are useless... they do have their uses, however not the type of use that makes a raid say "A bruiser would be nice.".... yet I've seen that exact statement said in regards to a Monk.just seems like its getting more imbalanced every LU, esp. with the constant proc nerfs, now this<div></div>Message Edited by Vorham on 05-12-2006 12:09 AMMessage Edited by Vorham on 05-12-2006 12:17 AM

KeandraD

05-12-2006, 11:22 AM

Just wait and see, we'll get some love too sooner or later <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Zigmun

05-12-2006, 12:06 PM

I agree with Vorham 100% Why do monks need this new ability? To solo better? to pvp better? Is there something wrong with their class? imo the monk has far more group and raid utility than a bruiser - so I thought the balance was that we could solo better... now I just don't know anymore. stun duration dropped mezz and fear timers blended our brothers given our spells I just had no idea monks were in such bad shape.

CosmicAcidGu

05-12-2006, 12:13 PM

I'm not playing a bruiser on pvp server, but on pve server I hardly ever use Fear. The fact that it will be on the same timer as mezz doesn't bother me. And it doesn't bother me that monks get it. I just feel that it doesn't fit the monk class. Imho, SOE should remember that monks and bruiser are significantly different classes. It's brutality against tranquility. Not much is further apart. It pisses me off that our AAs are named towards monks. It just doesn't fit. Just like monks getting a fear skill doesn't fit. Finnster <div></div>

Elephant

05-12-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote from another thread on Monk's forum... true enough, we suck now... <A href="http://eqiiforums.soe.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=33456" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.soe.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=33456</A>

Elephant

05-12-2006, 06:13 PM

Roll a monk. Better group and raid utility. Able to haste themselves (a lot) Ability in future to mezz. Bruisers shake off buff does not stack well with Guardian. (Groups prefer Guardian buff) Bruisers offensive dps line sucks pure and simple vs a monks haste buff which rocks. Bruisers cc shares same timer (future) Bruisers role in raids? - give them a feather and have them FD if the crap hits the fan.

KeandraD

05-12-2006, 06:20 PM

Ok, you go ahead and play monk, I'm staying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Madmoon

05-12-2006, 10:57 PM

I used to be of the same opinion, Finnster, but I have recently discovered (and now bemoan it's loss) how nice it is to have this ability. With them on separate timers, after a wipe, you can keep one monster basically out of the loop, until everyone is back. We were in the Temple to Cazic Thule, in a hallway, when we got wiped, but I was able to Feign and stayed alive. A lizard was marching up and down this hallway, and the one small room near us had respawned. I got to full mana, stood up, and the yellow heroic jumped me. I mezed him, rezzed the healer, then feared the lizard when the mez wore off. The healer rezzed the scout and mage, while I kept lizardbreath at bay with mez and fear. All it really saved us was the walk back down, but the utility of that was very high. Now, that's gone. :smileysad: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CosmicAcidGuru wrote: I'm not playing a bruiser on pvp server, but on pve server I hardly ever use Fear. The fact that it will be on the same timer as mezz doesn't bother me. Finnster <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Owa

05-12-2006, 11:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zigmund9 wrote: I agree with Vorham 100% Why do monks need this new ability? To solo better? to pvp better? Is there something wrong with their class? imo the monk has far more group and raid utility than a bruiser - so I thought the balance was that we could solo better... now I just don't know anymore. stun duration dropped mezz and fear timers blended our brothers given our spells I just had no idea monks were in such bad shape. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Agree. I'm [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing sick of every single 'fix' doing nothing other than making our class weaker than at any time since the last 'fix'. Tell me the last time we got a boost in anything and I'll send you 10 cp.

Mantua1

05-13-2006, 12:14 AM

And its not like we can replace Chanters. Ok give the monks instill doubt. Maybe they need it. But the fear sharing a timer with mezz. Was that really something that causes an imbalance? If it was why did it go unchecked for over a year? If its pvp related make the change only affect pvp enabled servers. If its not able to be something dilineated via the coding then dont do it.

OperationsX

05-14-2006, 08:00 AM

Monks will definately be the most overpowered class after LU#24, but next in line is you guys so I wouldn't raise such a fussy about minor changes. If you wanna talk nerfs talk to summoners, plzkthx. DPS tier will look like this after LU#24: RAID (Epic fights on average) Tier 1 high end- Rangers, Assassin, Monk, Bruiser Tier 1 low end- Swashbuckler, Brigand Tier 2 high end - Berserker, Wizard, Warlock, Tier 2 low end - Paladin, Shadowknight, Guardian, Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end - Coercer, Dirge Tier 3 low end - Enchanter, Troubador DPS Tiers in group heroic fights: Tier 1 high end - Ranger, Swashbuckler, Brigand, Tier 1 low end - Wizard, Warlock, Bruiser, Monk, Assassin, Berserker Tier 2 high end- Berserker Tier 2 low end- Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end- Paladin, Shadowknight, Dirge, Troubador Tier 3 low end- Guardian, Enchanter, Coercer Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:01 PMMessage Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:03 PM

Owa

05-14-2006, 08:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote: Monks will definately be the most overpowered class after LU#24, but next in line is you guys so I wouldn't raise such a fussy about minor changes. If you wanna talk nerfs talk to summoners, plzkthx. DPS tier will look like this after LU#24: RAID (Epic fights on average) Tier 1 high end- Rangers, Assassin, Monk, Bruiser Tier 1 low end- Swashbuckler, Brigand Tier 2 high end - Berserker, Wizard, Warlock, Tier 2 low end - Paladin, Shadowknight, Guardian, Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end - Coercer, Dirge Tier 3 low end - Enchanter, Troubador DPS Tiers in group heroic fights: Tier 1 high end - Ranger, Swashbuckler, Brigand, Tier 1 low end - Wizard, Warlock, Bruiser, Monk, Assassin, Berserker Tier 2 high end- Berserker Tier 2 low end- Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end- Paladin, Shadowknight, Dirge, Troubador Tier 3 low end- Guardian, Enchanter, Coercer Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:01 PM Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:03 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I don't know where you get your information but I can tell you that this is not the case in our guild (Pandemonium, Venekor). On our raids the highest DPS is the lvl 70 necro pet. Every time.

PhozFa

05-14-2006, 06:08 PM

<blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> Monks will definately be the most overpowered class after LU#24, but next in line is you guys so I wouldn't raise such a fussy about minor changes. If you wanna talk nerfs talk to summoners, plzkthx. DPS tier will look like this after LU#24: RAID (Epic fights on average) Tier 1 high end- Rangers, Assassin, Monk, Bruiser Tier 1 low end- Swashbuckler, Brigand Tier 2 high end - Berserker, Wizard, Warlock, Tier 2 low end - Paladin, Shadowknight, Guardian, Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end - Coercer, Dirge Tier 3 low end - Enchanter, Troubador DPS Tiers in group heroic fights: Tier 1 high end - Ranger, Swashbuckler, Brigand, Tier 1 low end - Wizard, Warlock, Bruiser, Monk, Assassin, Berserker Tier 2 high end- Berserker Tier 2 low end- Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end- Paladin, Shadowknight, Dirge, Troubador Tier 3 low end- Guardian, Enchanter, Coercer Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:01 PMMessage Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:03 PM<hr></blockquote>this made my laugh... This is a thread discussing the issue of brawler fear and yet you made a post whinning about your nerf. This is has nothing to do the with the OP's comment. I don't think its unreasonable to talk about the reason for the change in question. ITs kinda confusing. But yet.... LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR OPERATIONSX!!!!!! <div></div>

OperationsX

05-14-2006, 09:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote: Monks will definately be the most overpowered class after LU#24, but next in line is you guys so I wouldn't raise such a fussy about minor changes. If you wanna talk nerfs talk to summoners, plzkthx. DPS tier will look like this after LU#24: RAID (Epic fights on average) Tier 1 high end- Rangers, Assassin, Monk, Bruiser Tier 1 low end- Swashbuckler, Brigand Tier 2 high end - Berserker, Wizard, Warlock, Tier 2 low end - Paladin, Shadowknight, Guardian, Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end - Coercer, Dirge Tier 3 low end - Enchanter, Troubador DPS Tiers in group heroic fights: Tier 1 high end - Ranger, Swashbuckler, Brigand, Tier 1 low end - Wizard, Warlock, Bruiser, Monk, Assassin, Berserker Tier 2 high end- Berserker Tier 2 low end- Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end- Paladin, Shadowknight, Dirge, Troubador Tier 3 low end- Guardian, Enchanter, Coercer Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:01 PM Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:03 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>this made my laugh... This is a thread discussing the issue of brawler fear and yet you made a post whinning about your nerf. This is has nothing to do the with the OP's comment. I don't think its unreasonable to talk about the reason for the change in question. ITs kinda confusing. But yet.... LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR OPERATIONSX!!!!!! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Uh , if you read my first post this isn't about me whining about my class, its about YOU guys whining about yours and I'm pointing out exactly why you shouldn't be whining about yours, but reading comprehension FTW always! *claps* LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR BRUISERS EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ALL GETTING THE SAME TYPE OF STIFLE/STUN NERFS AND THEY STILL WILL BE T1 DPS ON RAIDS! CRY ME A FRICKEN RIVER!!Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-14-2006 10:36 AM

BtilTheMage

05-15-2006, 12:47 AM

<DIV>"Uh , if you read my first post this isn't about me whining about my class, its about YOU guys whining about yours and I'm pointing out exactly why you shouldn't be whining about yours, but reading comprehension FTW always! *claps* LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR BRUISERS EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ALL GETTING THE SAME TYPE OF STIFLE/STUN NERFS AND THEY STILL WILL BE T1 DPS ON RAIDS! CRY ME A FRICKEN RIVER!!" Stop trolling. You'll miss the Summoner group cry session.</DIV>

Moorgard

05-15-2006, 01:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mantua1 wrote: Ok give the monks instill doubt. Maybe they need it. But the fear sharing a timer with mezz. Was that really something that causes an imbalance? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Lockeye didn't just look at enchanters; he made a detailed overview of all control spells across all classes. Quite simply, bruisers were one of the classes that had too many while monks were a bit lacking. Monks gaining the Instill Doubt line gives them a non-overpowering control option, while bruisers have to choose between using it or the mez line. In terms of sheer numbers, Instill Doubt was an extra spell given to bruisers without any corresponding spell being given to monks. This change evens things out a bit more. Nobody likes spell changes that are seen as nerfs. But Instill Doubt is an extremely situational ability anyway, and this change will only have any real effect in some corner cases.

Blakeavon

05-15-2006, 02:42 AM

Nobody likes spell changes that are seen as nerfs. But Instill Doubt is an extremely situational ability anyway, and this change will only have any real effect in some corner cases._________-Nobody like spell changes seen as nerfs? These control changes are like a baseball bat to all classes instead of giving our 'chanters some loving in the form of a hug and giving them crowd control back. Please Moorgard inform us troubadours how our charm going from 7mins to 8SECS cant be seen as a nerf!!! but as of yet no reply...i really feel for any class that has things being removed because a DEV doesnt see it as useful. who cares on PvE whether both monks and bruisers have some shared utility... unless of course these spell changes are a responce to PvP servers... trying to streamline both server types for just one spell form?

Pitt Hammerfi

05-15-2006, 03:14 AM

<DIV>Wheres the SK's Hate siphoning spell ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Paladins get Amends, which suits them...after all they are te masters of fear and hate....</DIV> Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on 05-14-2006 04:15 PMMessage Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on 05-14-2006 11:03 PM

selch

05-15-2006, 03:38 AM

<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pitt Hammerfist wrote: <DIV>Wheres the SK's Hate reducing spell ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you want to be scout?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Dahlrek

05-15-2006, 03:38 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div>But Instill Doubt is an extremely situational ability anyway, and this change will only have any real effect in some corner cases.<hr></blockquote>Face it, you've just removed it from Bruisers completely, whether or not you personally figured out how to use it effectively. Twice the recast, shorter duration (even with our nerfed mez duration on test), doesn't prevent casting, may trigger adds, and due to pathing can end up invisible/underworld when it returns to beat on you. It's not even good enough to be called mez's red-headed stepchild. But even so, when on a different timer it's useful. Now? Not at all.Now that mez breaks on hostile action (quite possibly the most infuriating change in the entire patch) one could almost make the argument that you could fear a mob and then debuff while it runs; which is true as long as it's non-social or solitary, and you're willing to put up with the downsides. Given the difficulty in actually finding those scenarios, and having the range/LoS to cast the debuffs, I think that argument is even more of a "corner case". Net result, a patch full of negatives, no matter how you try to spin it. You really shouldn't even bother, it just makes you look dishonest.<div></div>

Araxes

05-15-2006, 03:39 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:... given to bruisers without any corresponding spell being given to monks. This change evens things out a bit more. <hr></blockquote>Slightly off the subject but on a related note ... is it always going to be the design philosophy that all classes should continue to have this yin-yang relationship ... instead of each class being truly unique ... there will always be the the over-arching subclass theme. Particularly with classes exclusive to one city I notice this. A coercer is implied to be interchangeable with illusionist ... a necromancer with a conjuror ... a monk with a bruiser ... there is always this issue of "we have it and they don't" or more often "they have it and we don't" ... but honestly why is that such a terrible thing that classes get spell lines drastically different from their subclass counterparts (assuming the overall number of spell lines is the same and that the balance is kept in lieu of that idea). I guess what I'm getting at ... the idea that subclasses are still subclasses and not their own unique class ... I use your words just becuase it's an example -- that they have to have "corresponding" spells with similar or in some cases exactly the same effects. Rather than just be a class that is balanced all on its own the way subclasses are (were) balanced to other subclasses (when subclasses actually physically were used in the game) i.e. you could play a bruiser or a shadowknight and although completely different both (in theory) are balanced to have the same end-effectiveness. Why continue to have this interchangeable aspect to opposing sides of certain subclasses? </div>Message Edited by Vicontessa on 05-14-2006 04:41 PM

troodon

05-15-2006, 03:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you want to be scout?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> He means reducing a party member's aggro. SKs have a similar sort of issue, Pallies get amends at level 49 whereas SKs get FD. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't like FD, but an 18 second feign death on a 5 minute timer holds no candle to amends.

selch

05-15-2006, 04:25 AM

Diern

05-15-2006, 04:31 AM

Dont understand why they got fear in the first place, or invisibility, not sure which one of the monk classes gets invis but I heard it mentioned somewhere. Not sure why they got this in the first place while SK did not. , as they are both traditional Shadowknight abilities. Not a call for nerf or even a whine, just an observation i have made

Pitt Hammerfi

05-15-2006, 05:51 AM

yeah sorry i meant hate transfer Anyway my point is i have 3 t7 master taunts yet a bruiser can steal aggro off me in 2 hits. Think about it devs...think about it..Message Edited by Pitt Hammerfist on 05-14-2006 06:53 PM

05-15-2006, 07:16 AM

its cos wrexx >> you pitty <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> for real tho, sk's need some agro love. <div></div>

Astery

05-15-2006, 07:31 AM

yes, remove the paladin hate transfer, then as warlock i'm forced to quite this game...the problem with LU13+ modifications, they seem to plan only for the maxed out, best player setup scenarios, (which is the case for raiders only). right now if there is not paladin in my team i cannot do but tier3 dps...as warlock i'm supposed to do t1 dps regardless there is paladin or not. zero aggro management.little off topic i know, but just logged from a zerker tank team.. really disappointed. SK i wouldnt team even if he pays for my mender.

Nerj

05-15-2006, 08:05 AM

<DIV> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mantua1 wrote: Ok give the monks instill doubt. Maybe they need it. But the fear sharing a timer with mezz. Was that really something that causes an imbalance? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Lockeye didn't just look at enchanters; he made a detailed overview of all control spells across all classes. Quite simply, bruisers were one of the classes that had too many while monks were a bit lacking. Monks gaining the Instill Doubt line gives them a non-overpowering control option, while bruisers have to choose between using it or the mez line. In terms of sheer numbers, Instill Doubt was an extra spell given to bruisers without any corresponding spell being given to monks. This change evens things out a bit more. Nobody likes spell changes that are seen as nerfs. But Instill Doubt is an extremely situational ability anyway, and this change will only have any real effect in some corner cases. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I find it interesting that after years of development, months of beta tesing, and 2 years of being live, the best they can come with for control spells is coming in LU#24. It is things like this that REALLY instill confidence in the game.</DIV></DIV>Message Edited by Nerjin on 05-15-2006 12:12 AM

Suraklin

05-15-2006, 03:28 PM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KeandraD wrote: Just wait and see, we'll get some love too sooner or later <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> More like a nerf. Or SOE will say screw being tanks you're strictly a melee DPS class now lol. Which is what you were in the EQOA version of EQ.</DIV>

PhozFa

05-15-2006, 04:03 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> PhozFate wrote: <blockquote> <hr> OperationsX wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> Monks will definately be the most overpowered class after LU#24, but next in line is you guys so I wouldn't raise such a fussy about minor changes. If you wanna talk nerfs talk to summoners, plzkthx. DPS tier will look like this after LU#24: RAID (Epic fights on average) Tier 1 high end- Rangers, Assassin, Monk, Bruiser Tier 1 low end- Swashbuckler, Brigand Tier 2 high end - Berserker, Wizard, Warlock, Tier 2 low end - Paladin, Shadowknight, Guardian, Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end - Coercer, Dirge Tier 3 low end - Enchanter, Troubador DPS Tiers in group heroic fights: Tier 1 high end - Ranger, Swashbuckler, Brigand, Tier 1 low end - Wizard, Warlock, Bruiser, Monk, Assassin, Berserker Tier 2 high end- Berserker Tier 2 low end- Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end- Paladin, Shadowknight, Dirge, Troubador Tier 3 low end- Guardian, Enchanter, Coercer Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:01 PM Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:03 PM <hr> </blockquote>this made my laugh... This is a thread discussing the issue of brawler fear and yet you made a post whinning about your nerf. This is has nothing to do the with the OP's comment. I don't think its unreasonable to talk about the reason for the change in question. ITs kinda confusing. But yet....LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR OPERATIONSX!!!!!! <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> Uh , if you read my first post this isn't about me whining about my class, its about YOU guys whining about yours and I'm pointing out exactly why you shouldn't be whining about yours, but reading comprehension FTW always! *claps* LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR BRUISERS EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ALL GETTING THE SAME TYPE OF STIFLE/STUN NERFS AND THEY STILL WILL BE T1 DPS ON RAIDS! CRY ME A FRICKEN RIVER!!Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-14-2006 10:36 AM<hr></blockquote>Your first post? this is your first post on this thread (i double checked). You chart is just BS. first of all it shows summoners doing the DPS of a guardian. What do you have to back up your chart as far as detailed parses cause again I call BS and i think (along with atleast another person) that you are just trying to troll. As far as DPS, when it comes to raids thats our job. We have very little utility. We aren't raid tanks. Our utility consist of 1 buff that gives the group 24%DPS. The only reason we look good on parses is other class buffs for us. You just see a parse # and are like whoa nerf thier dps! But if you know me or read my posts you'll realize I don't care about DPS. I'm a fighter. I'm supposed to tank. To me dps is good for 1 thing and thats holding agro as long as i have enough dps to do that i'l happy. Either way i feel now we are a DPS class anyway with the ability to tank sometimes. With the right AAs we can do rouge like dps and if they have the right AAs they can have a group taunt, good avoidance with a shield with thier chain mitigation to add to thier single taunt.<div></div>Message Edited by PhozFate on 05-15-2006 05:15 AM

KBern

05-15-2006, 04:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote: I don't know where you get your information but I can tell you that this is not the case in our guild (Pandemonium, Venekor). On our raids the highest DPS is the lvl 70 necro pet. Every time. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> ROFL Dude go right some fantasy novels. Then the rest of your raid is asleep if the PET is beating you all every time. Your DPS only does 400-500 DPS on raids? I think you need nudge some people to wake up then. Nerfs suck for everyone, but exxaggerations suck even harder. (and no, not a trolling summoner...I check the dev tracker in the morning and this looked interesting due to I made a bruiser recently...but I love reading people posting things like that lol ) Monks and Bruisers are awesome....but your right, they shouldnt blur the lines between the two...each should bring something unique that is needed that the other doesnt have. Message Edited by KBern on 05-15-2006 08:37 AM

Owa

05-15-2006, 05:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote: I don't know where you get your information but I can tell you that this is not the case in our guild (Pandemonium, Venekor). On our raids the highest DPS is the lvl 70 necro pet. Every time. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> ROFL Dude go right some fantasy novels. Then the rest of your raid is asleep if the PET is beating you all every time. Your DPS only does 400-500 DPS on raids? I think you need nudge some people to wake up then. Nerfs suck for everyone, but exxaggerations suck even harder. (and no, not a trolling summoner...I check the dev tracker in the morning and this looked interesting due to I made a bruiser recently...but I love reading people posting things like that lol ) Monks and Bruisers are awesome....but your right, they shouldnt blur the lines between the two...each should bring something unique that is needed that the other doesnt have. Message Edited by KBern on 05-15-2006 08:37 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Just posting what Advanced Combat Tracker tells me to, mate. No need for exxxxaggerating anything other than the requisite amount of 'x's in this sentence. Due to us being on a PvP server we don't have access to all the subclasses - and not all of our members are lvl 70 yet. Nevertheless, Pandemonium is the preeminent raiding guild on Venekor and thus far the pet gets highest DPS in raids. If you're not getting T1 DPS from your pet that's a real shame and I can see how you'd be surprised at our raid parses. However, whether you're surprised or not doesn't matter a whole [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing lot in terms of how the DPS works on our raids. I'm all for people from other boards posting here and sharing their knowledge and advice - but your views might carry a little more weight if you could either 'right' like a grown up or had been playing a Bruiser for more than five minutes. Go and play your new class, learn how it works, learn how to spell and get back to us. Dude.

KBern

05-15-2006, 05:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote: I'm all for people from other boards posting here and sharing their knowledge and advice - but your views might carry a little more weight if you could either 'right' like a grown up or had been playing a Bruiser for more than five minutes. Go and play your new class, learn how it works, learn how to spell and get back to us. Dude. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Nice attempt to discredit a post because I twitched and hit an extra X. Spelling does not invalidate an opinion Mr. Edumakashun. Yes my whole post was bad grammar spelling and dude like rofl. I won't tell you about bruisers and you dont tell me about pets, how about that sparky?

Owa

05-15-2006, 05:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KBern wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote: I'm all for people from other boards posting here and sharing their knowledge and advice - but your views might carry a little more weight if you could either 'right' like a grown up or had been playing a Bruiser for more than five minutes. Go and play your new class, learn how it works, learn how to spell and get back to us. Dude. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Nice attempt to discredit a post because I twitched and hit an extra X. Spelling does not invalidate an opinion Mr. Edumakashun. Yes my whole post was bad grammar spelling and dude like rofl. I won't tell you about bruisers and you dont tell me about pets, how about that sparky? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> What invalidates an opinion is being thick - and not being able to right indicates thickitude. When someone out-damages our lvl 70 pet I'll let you know. Good luck with the twitching. love, Sparky.

Cuz

05-15-2006, 05:52 PM

<DIV>Wow a summoner that can't out DPS a guardian. That must be one terrible player. Absolutely awful. Oh speaking of awful, the complete lack of dev responses to the multitude of troub issues. Moorguard, can you create a troub please? One response this year would probably enough.</DIV>

RecosIko

05-15-2006, 05:55 PM

Hmm.... maybe you should check your own spelling before you go picking at other peoples..... I think you mean write not right...... :smileyindifferent:<div></div>

PhozFa

05-15-2006, 06:05 PM

<blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div></div> <div>Wow a summoner that can't out DPS a guardian. That must be one terrible player. Absolutely awful. Oh speaking of awful, the complete lack of dev responses to the multitude of troub issues. Moorguard, can you create a troub please? One response this year would probably enough.</div><hr></blockquote>just cause a dev plays your class doesn't mean your issues will be fixed or you'll class will be uber. Alot of devs play alot of diffrent classes but MG happens to be a very vocal dev<div></div>

scl

05-15-2006, 06:12 PM

<blockquote><hr>RecosIko wrote:Hmm.... maybe you should check your own spelling before you go picking at other peoples..... I think you mean write not right...... :smileyindifferent:<div></div><hr></blockquote> You'll notice he put it in quotes... you're aware what that means, yes?

KBern

05-15-2006, 06:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> scl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RecosIko wrote: Hmm.... maybe you should check your own spelling before you go picking at other peoples..... I think you mean write not right...... :smileyindifferent: <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> You'll notice he put it in quotes... you're aware what that means, yes? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Yes he was trying to be sarcastic and discredit an entire post due to an extra X. A pinnacle of maturity and intelligence.

Cuz

05-15-2006, 06:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote: <DIV>Wow a summoner that can't out DPS a guardian. That must be one terrible player. Absolutely awful. Oh speaking of awful, the complete lack of dev responses to the multitude of troub issues. Moorguard, can you create a troub please? One response this year would probably enough.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>just cause a dev plays your class doesn't mean your issues will be fixed or you'll class will be uber. Alot of devs play alot of diffrent classes but MG happens to be a very vocal dev <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah that's why I want want MG to play a troub. He's a vocal dev. Something that the troubs are sorely lacking.

RecosIko

05-15-2006, 06:46 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>scl wrote:<blockquote><hr>RecosIko wrote:Hmm.... maybe you should check your own spelling before you go picking at other peoples..... I think you mean write not right...... :smileyindifferent:<div></div><hr></blockquote> You'll notice he put it in quotes... you're aware what that means, yes?<hr></blockquote>Eh sorry, yes. You'll have to excuse me i just woke up and misread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Anyway, still don't like it when people pick up on peoples spelling when it's clear what they mean. Not everyone has english as a native language....</div>

Owa

05-15-2006, 06:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RecosIko wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> scl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RecosIko wrote: Hmm.... maybe you should check your own spelling before you go picking at other peoples..... I think you mean write not right...... :smileyindifferent: <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> You'll notice he put it in quotes... you're aware what that means, yes? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Eh sorry, yes. You'll have to excuse me i just woke up and misread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Anyway, still don't like it when people pick up on peoples spelling when it's clear what they mean. Not everyone has english as a native language.... </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It's "people's". With an apostrophe. Sorry. Couldn't resist.

PhozFa

05-15-2006, 06:57 PM

<div align="center">First of all spellin iz fer lewzer. </div> Second i think its sad people give MG a hard time for posting on brawler boards. Give the guy a lil slack. Also BTW i'm not a MG fanboi and if you don't belive me heres the<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=16736" target=_blank> thread </a>to show it. I see classes frustrations thou if they have issues and feel like they are being ignored. This may be a community problem. One cool thing would have some devs dedicated to sorting out some issues. Maybe 4 devs 1 for scouts-fighters-mage-priest. All i'd really expect them to do is explain what they were thinking when certain changes were made to the archetype/class/subclass when otherwise not explained by another dev at another time. Maybe this would take more time than i think but i think it'd be great for community relations. Just answers like MG's in this thread is all i expect. <div></div>

Cuz

05-15-2006, 07:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote: <DIV align=center>First of all spellin iz fer lewzer. </DIV> Second i think its sad people give MG a hard time for posting on brawler boards. Give the guy a lil slack. Also BTW i'm not a MG fanboi and if you don't belive me heres the<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=16736" target=_blank> thread </A>to show it. I see classes frustrations thou if they have issues and feel like they are being ignored. This may be a community problem. One cool thing would have some devs dedicated to sorting out some issues. Maybe 4 devs 1 for scouts-fighters-mage-priest. All i'd really expect them to do is explain what they were thinking when certain changes were made to the archetype/class/subclass when otherwise not explained by another dev at another time. Maybe this would take more time than i think but i think it'd be great for community relations. Just answers like MG's in this thread is all i expect. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm rather inclined to the other side. I appreciate MG posting as much as he does for the Bruiser class. However, there are a lot of classes that get a mere fraction of the attention on the boards.

PhozFa

05-15-2006, 07:31 PM

<div></div>... hence the rest of my post suggesting other classes get more attention :smileytongue: <div></div>Message Edited by PhozFate on 05-15-2006 08:32 AM

Cuz

05-15-2006, 08:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote: ... hence the rest of my post suggesting other classes get more attention :smileytongue: Message Edited by PhozFate on 05-15-2006 08:32 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I guess just saying "I agree" might have been simpler huh? :p

Seffrid

05-16-2006, 04:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vicontessa wrote: <DIV> Slightly off the subject but on a related note ... is it always going to be the design philosophy that all classes should continue to have this yin-yang relationship ... instead of each class being truly unique ... there will always be the the over-arching subclass theme.............. Why continue to have this interchangeable aspect to opposing sides of certain subclasses? </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I'm afraid this is what happens when PvP is introduced into a game that was designed for, and launched solely with, PvE. Despite all the promises that it wouldn't happen, we're now seeing a lot of class nerfs arising from the need to balance the classes for PvP. It's what most of us knew would happen, it always does.

Suraklin

05-16-2006, 10:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> annaspider wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RecosIko wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> scl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RecosIko wrote: Hmm.... maybe you should check your own spelling before you go picking at other peoples..... I think you mean write not right...... :smileyindifferent: <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> You'll notice he put it in quotes... you're aware what that means, yes? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Eh sorry, yes. You'll have to excuse me i just woke up and misread <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Anyway, still don't like it when people pick up on peoples spelling when it's clear what they mean. Not everyone has english as a native language.... </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It's "people's". With an apostrophe. Sorry. Couldn't resist. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wow annaspider is the EQ2 forums grammar police.

Owa

05-16-2006, 11:07 PM

It's 'forum's'. With an apostrophe. :smileytongue:

MakhailSamma

05-16-2006, 11:43 PM

<DIV>Just stop it, Bruiser's's's's's's's's don't know grammer.</DIV>

Gravve

05-17-2006, 01:54 AM

<DIV>Wanna talk about nerfing classes ??? why are the monks always getting new spells and arts or added times , while the bruisers are always loseing them ???</DIV> <DIV>TELL ME YOU DONT FAVOR MONKS ! This is complete and total BS ! Why dont you nerf the monks Tsunami ability and stop messing with the bruisers dps output , stuns , mezz's , ect . OMG this is rediculous . tempted to destroy all my chars and get rid of all my accounts from EQ1 and 2 which I have been a loyal subscriber and player for about 7 years now BUT this is the straw that broke the camels back ! hmmm lets see here , monks can tank an epic mob for about 12 secs without any damage for about 10 to 12 secs .... I can fear or mezz a mob sometimes for about 5 - 10 secs .... BUT IM OVER POWERED AND Need to be nerfed ??? HOW ??? I fail to see the logic behind any of this ! Oh and thanks a ton on nerfing our stuns now I cant even help the group or raids with that ability .... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Message Edited by Gravve on 05-16-2006 04:56 PM

Owa

05-17-2006, 03:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MakhailSammael wrote: <DIV>Just stop it, Bruiser's's's's's's's's don't know grammer.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It's 'grammar'. With an 'A'. Ok. That's the last time. Sorry. :smileyvery-happy:

MakhailSamma

05-17-2006, 03:15 AM

or speeling

Kadon_Najena

05-17-2006, 05:21 AM

Monks are taking over the world......

FininCuthalion

05-17-2006, 07:04 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard schrieb:Lockeye didn't ... look at enchanters; he made a detailed overview of all control spells across all classes.<hr></blockquote>Welcome to our world.</div>

mr23sgte

05-17-2006, 10:07 PM

Tsunami was nerfed ................. must have Master 1 to get the full duration.

BrainMu

05-17-2006, 10:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mr23sgte wrote: Tsunami was nerfed ................. must have Master 1 to get the full duration. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> They did the same thing to our Close Mind

Gravve

05-18-2006, 07:17 AM

it may have been nerfed , BUT name another class that can do that , thought they said they were trying to balance the classes out hmmm does not sound like it to me . and as far as that comment about monks takeing over the world i hate to admit it but its true because SoE is favoring them while they nerf everyone else . So therefore I refuse to admit that any monk is better then a bruiser because at least we have to work for it , it is not just given to us !

OperationsX

05-18-2006, 08:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote: Monks will definately be the most overpowered class after LU#24, but next in line is you guys so I wouldn't raise such a fussy about minor changes. If you wanna talk nerfs talk to summoners, plzkthx. DPS tier will look like this after LU#24: RAID (Epic fights on average) Tier 1 high end- Rangers, Assassin, Monk, Bruiser Tier 1 low end- Swashbuckler, Brigand Tier 2 high end - Berserker, Wizard, Warlock, Tier 2 low end - Paladin, Shadowknight, Guardian, Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end - Coercer, Dirge Tier 3 low end - Enchanter, Troubador DPS Tiers in group heroic fights: Tier 1 high end - Ranger, Swashbuckler, Brigand, Tier 1 low end - Wizard, Warlock, Bruiser, Monk, Assassin, Berserker Tier 2 high end- Berserker Tier 2 low end- Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end- Paladin, Shadowknight, Dirge, Troubador Tier 3 low end- Guardian, Enchanter, Coercer Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:01 PM Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:03 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>this made my laugh... This is a thread discussing the issue of brawler fear and yet you made a post whinning about your nerf. This is has nothing to do the with the OP's comment. I don't think its unreasonable to talk about the reason for the change in question. ITs kinda confusing. But yet.... LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR OPERATIONSX!!!!!! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Uh , if you read my first post this isn't about me whining about my class, its about YOU guys whining about yours and I'm pointing out exactly why you shouldn't be whining about yours, but reading comprehension FTW always! *claps* LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR BRUISERS EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ALL GETTING THE SAME TYPE OF STIFLE/STUN NERFS AND THEY STILL WILL BE T1 DPS ON RAIDS! CRY ME A FRICKEN RIVER!! Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-14-2006 10:36 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Your first post? this is your first post on this thread (i double checked). You chart is just BS. first of all it shows summoners doing the DPS of a guardian. What do you have to back up your chart as far as detailed parses cause again I call BS and i think (along with atleast another person) that you are just trying to troll. As far as DPS, when it comes to raids thats our job. We have very little utility. We aren't raid tanks. Our utility consist of 1 buff that gives the group 24%DPS. The only reason we look good on parses is other class buffs for us. You just see a parse # and are like whoa nerf thier dps! But if you know me or read my posts you'll realize I don't care about DPS. I'm a fighter. I'm supposed to tank. To me dps is good for 1 thing and thats holding agro as long as i have enough dps to do that i'l happy. Either way i feel now we are a DPS class anyway with the ability to tank sometimes. With the right AAs we can do rouge like dps and if they have the right AAs they can have a group taunt, good avoidance with a shield with thier chain mitigation to add to thier single taunt. Message Edited by PhozFate on 05-15-2006 05:15 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Yah your right, you do rogue like dps, and rogues are doing T1 dps, so your a T3 class doing T1 dps, thanks for admitting that...don't believe it? Again I see it **ALL** the time on raids. Btw you never seen a MT guardian be top 5 dps? Hmm interesting, you either got too much DPS classes on raid or a lazy MT that that likes to save all his power to sit and *taunt taunt*. Anyway rouges do too much damage thanks to poisons effected with too great of AA's and ease of haste increase. Haste is definately overpowered and so are fighter AA's, mage AA's are crap compared to fighters.Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-17-2006 09:53 PM

PhozFa

05-18-2006, 09:44 AM

<blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> PhozFate wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> OperationsX wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> PhozFate wrote: <blockquote> <hr> OperationsX wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> Monks will definately be the most overpowered class after LU#24, but next in line is you guys so I wouldn't raise such a fussy about minor changes. If you wanna talk nerfs talk to summoners, plzkthx. DPS tier will look like this after LU#24: RAID (Epic fights on average) Tier 1 high end- Rangers, Assassin, Monk, Bruiser Tier 1 low end- Swashbuckler, Brigand Tier 2 high end - Berserker, Wizard, Warlock, Tier 2 low end - Paladin, Shadowknight, Guardian, Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end - Coercer, Dirge Tier 3 low end - Enchanter, Troubador DPS Tiers in group heroic fights: Tier 1 high end - Ranger, Swashbuckler, Brigand, Tier 1 low end - Wizard, Warlock, Bruiser, Monk, Assassin, Berserker Tier 2 high end- Berserker Tier 2 low end- Conjuror, Necromancer Tier 3 high end- Paladin, Shadowknight, Dirge, Troubador Tier 3 low end- Guardian, Enchanter, Coercer Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:01 PM Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-13-2006 09:03 PM <hr> </blockquote>this made my laugh... This is a thread discussing the issue of brawler fear and yet you made a post whinning about your nerf. This is has nothing to do the with the OP's comment. I don't think its unreasonable to talk about the reason for the change in question. ITs kinda confusing. But yet....LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR OPERATIONSX!!!!!! <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> Uh , if you read my first post this isn't about me whining about my class, its about YOU guys whining about yours and I'm pointing out exactly why you shouldn't be whining about yours, but reading comprehension FTW always! *claps* LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR BRUISERS EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ALL GETTING THE SAME TYPE OF STIFLE/STUN NERFS AND THEY STILL WILL BE T1 DPS ON RAIDS! CRY ME A FRICKEN RIVER!! Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-14-2006 10:36 AM <hr> </blockquote>Your first post? this is your first post on this thread (i double checked). You chart is just BS. first of all it shows summoners doing the DPS of a guardian. What do you have to back up your chart as far as detailed parses cause again I call BS and i think (along with atleast another person) that you are just trying to troll. As far as DPS, when it comes to raids thats our job. We have very little utility. We aren't raid tanks. Our utility consist of 1 buff that gives the group 24%DPS. The only reason we look good on parses is other class buffs for us. You just see a parse # and are like whoa nerf thier dps!But if you know me or read my posts you'll realize I don't care about DPS. I'm a fighter. I'm supposed to tank. To me dps is good for 1 thing and thats holding agro as long as i have enough dps to do that i'l happy. Either way i feel now we are a DPS class anyway with the ability to tank sometimes. With the right AAs we can do rouge like dps and if they have the right AAs they can have a group taunt, good avoidance with a shield with thier chain mitigation to add to thier single taunt. <div></div> Message Edited by PhozFate on 05-15-2006 05:15 AM <hr> </blockquote>Yah your right, you do rogue like dps, and rogues are doing T1 dps, so your a T3 class doing T1 dps, thanks for admitting that...don't believe it? Again I see it **ALL** the time on raids. Btw you never seen a MT guardian be top 5 dps? Hmm interesting, you either got too much DPS classes on raid or a lazy MT that that likes to save all his power to sit and *taunt taunt*. Anyway rouges do too much damage thanks to poisons effected with too great of AA's and ease of haste increase. Haste is definately overpowered and so are fighter AA's, mage AA's are crap compared to fighters.Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-17-2006 09:53 PM<hr></blockquote>Actully i'd consider us T2 DPS preLU24. With the new nerf on our crit AAs who knows where we will be. This is the last argument i'm gonna ahve with you because you obviously don't know how a parse works. Of course the MT is going to have a high parsed dps! It starts parsing when the MT starts fighting. Most raids wait a few to let the MT build agro. In that time a tank is trying to lock agro giving him a head start on the DPS game. Parsing the MT isn't fair. I wasn't talking about a MT guard. I was talking about one who isn't tanking. If you think fighter AAs are overpowered you don't know what your talking about. If our AAs were overpowered we could do the fighter role better than any other fighter which is not the case. <div></div>

OperationsX

05-18-2006, 07:42 PM

Non-tanking guardian parsed top 5 on raids too, oh and I'm glad they are nerfing your crit AA's (although I've seen no mention of this on test) cuz that's exactly what I was talking about, they need to do that for *EVERY* fighter. I never said specifically 'bruiser' AA's were overpowered, I was saying fighters in comparision to mages or priest AA's were overpowered and you all know it. Specifically bruiser AA's aren't great compared to say monk AA's but 10x better than say Conjuror AA's. I understand how parsers work, and I never count the MT (hello you forgot DS and aye they are the first ones doing dps) , I just through that out there cuz you acted like you had never seen in *any situation* a guardian be near the top of the dps charts, they easily do when they MT , even if they are in the right group and doing dps they can still get top 5. Oh and you are T1 dps on raids, T2 in groups - there's no way were gonna outdps you guys on raids now, have you seen our nerfs? Message Edited by OperationsX on 05-18-2006 08:44 AM

Beyond-Postal20

05-18-2006, 08:56 PM

<DIV>I seriously cant believe they would put them on both timers... you might as well delete the spell from the bruiser spell book, because obviously our mez is 1000X better then fear... I dont really respond to nerfs at all, however this is getting out of control, if you review all the nerfs we had in the passed year, it will make you laugh... I just dont understand why you keep tweaking things this late in the game? We picked our characters based on Combat Art's and abilities, and because you keep messing with things... you keep changing our pros and cons of our character, and we have to sit here and suck on it, because we have so much time invested in our characters. (I know we have the option to quit, but thats BS.. We already put our time in and we overall enjoy the game.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im just curious whats next for us, what nerf or change is planned? I know it says its ever changing etc... but this is out of control... You took a unique ability away from the Bruiser, are you prepared to give us something in return?</DIV>Message Edited by Beyond-Postal2049 on 05-18-2006 09:57 AM