Who is going to delete their bruiser chars after LU24?

[Elephant]

<DIV>Test Update notes for LU24</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.soe.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53807&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.soe.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53807&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just don't see how bruiser can tank after this update. My usual tactic was to keep heroic mobs stunned most of the time, because when they were not stunned, they usually hit for 5-10% of my health. Now, overall stun duration is decreased in half, plus Sucker Punch does not stun anymore (dazes, which means mobs can still use CAs and spells).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And what do we get instead? Nothing! No extra mitigation, avoidance or anything... we're just gonna be getting hit twice as much as before.</DIV> <DIV>Healers always complaining how hard it is to heal brawlers, well now it's gonna be twice as hard (impossible on most encounters).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruisers will be totally broke with this update. :smileysad:</DIV>

[Errie_Tholluxe]

  Nah the sky isnt falling. What I read over in the test notes was that two of our skills and a couple stuns are getting changed. Hurt? Dam straight. Kill my toon?  Notachance.  I AM hoping interced takes into account parry and deflection or its still useless to us, and we shall see how the effects go from test to live. Heck they could change.  Perk up Elephanton, ya sound like a ..warlock<div></div>

[Owa]

<DIV><FONT size=3>What<EM> I</EM> read from all these changes is that Monks get a new CA. Not only that but they get one of <EM>our</EM> CAs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>So why do they get an extra Combat Ability and we get nerfed? Anyone?</FONT></DIV>

[Elephant]

<P>Well, I guess good news is that they finally introduced betrayal, so you can become Monk now :smileyhappy:</P> <P>Seriously, I am quite positive Bruiser will suck after LU24. Not talking stuns duration, what do you all feel of Intimidate recast becoming 1 min, and Fear sharing this 1 min timer with it?  OMG that is THE END.  Mobs will wipe the floor with Bruisers now...</P>

[ganjookie]

Why don't we wait to see what the bruiser testers say, before we start claiming that the sky is falling and all that rubbish.nothing worse then a chickenshi little bruiser that wants to kill off his character..but then again those bruisers are probably "flavor of the month" players<div></div>

[Pouncer74]

<DIV>The stun nerf is a big nerf for us.</DIV> <DIV>The addition to fear for monks....first it reduces the distinction between the 2 brawlers and secondly it does make monks even more powerful for a class that already is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ultimately classes get nerfed then improved...then nerfed again.  All we can do is enjoy the ride.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to see an increase to our mitigation in our defensive to compensate for the nerf to stuns.  This will make tanking in groups more difficult</DIV>

[Owa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pouncer74 wrote:<BR> <DIV>The stun nerf is a big nerf for us.</DIV> <DIV>The addition to fear for monks....first it reduces the distinction between the 2 brawlers and secondly it does make monks even more powerful for a class that already is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ultimately <FONT color=#ffff00>classes get nerfed then improved...then nerfed again</FONT>.  All we can do is enjoy the ride.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to see an increase to our mitigation in our defensive to compensate for the nerf to stuns.  This will make tanking in groups more difficult</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT size=3>I agree with what you're saying in general.....but as to Bruisers getting improved? When's the last time you can remember an improvement?</FONT>

[MutantCrock1905]

let me start off by saying this ... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you sony! All you do is shaft us bruisers.. monks can get 100% self haste FFS! they get a taunt proc that procs not 25% of the time but 50 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing percent... i mean [Removed for Content]? Now you nerf us bruiser yet again ( for starters high end guilds do not like bruisers and as it is, when is the last time U seen a bruiser get an item on a raid?? ) NOW our ability to solo because we're shunned by high end raiding guilds has been [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed? Ur gonna make people quit, cause this is getting tiresome. I like the game, but i hate the fact that you dont do anything good for your players.. OH and did yall read the patch notes.. the arrogance of what sony said ... you felt like being nice so you gave us a free respec? you can shove it up your [Removed for Content]!

[Mantua1]

<P><FONT size=4>Now come on guys, you had to know Bruisers were about to get hammered. BOHICA (Bend Over Here It Comes Again)</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>The bruiser class IMHO is but an after thought in the grand scheme. They had to come up with an evil monk but could care less about it. Make it nearly identical and its that much less work on the developers. Take the class profession hats - you know the ones that do not exisit for the bruiser and probably wont be in for the expansion in November (anyone wanna start a betting pool? You watch, Bruiser will be the only class in the expansion with out anything that is promised - class specific armor / weapons or anything really. The best predictor of future behavioir is past behavior. I mean they could not even come up with AA abilities that are bruiser stand outs. Even if ti was just in the name - like Chi. Yea its not the greatest but imagine if it were called "Unfathamable Brutality" Makes me raise an eyebrow in interest.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>We all know what has been done to Bruisers in the past.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>Will I betray and become a monk? No. Will I delete my character? No </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>I - like all the other old time Bruisers  - have developed calouses on our back side so its more a matter of what we can endure more then anything else. Should our fear and mezz share the same reuse timer? I dont think we should. Its not like they ever stuck or worked half the time anyway so what was the big deal?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=4>Is this an issue because of PvP? Kinda almost sounds it (though I could be off base)</FONT> </P>

[deadsidedemon]

<DIV>You guys are funny.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruisers and Monks remain one of the most versatile classes in the game regardless of how long we can stun-lock mobs.</DIV>

[saubertounito]

Least I have a good alchemist now, so I dotn have to pay for poisons....

[Madmoon]

<P>Looks like someone needs a shot or two of decaf...</P> <P>Test the changes out before crying that the sky is falling.  I don't like the monks taking over our space, but I'm a bruiser because I want to be a bruiser, so I really don't care WHAT they do to monks.  They can let them do everything we do, and they STILL will be monks, so who cares?  As far as the raiding stuff, if you want to raid, join a raiding guild.  If they never let you in raids, they're not much of a guild.  Go find another.  There's only about, ohhhhh, a million of them.</P> <P>Redmouser, Bruiser, AB<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MutantCrock1905 wrote:<BR> let me start off by saying this ... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you sony! All you do is shaft us bruisers.. monks can get 100% self haste FFS! they get a taunt proc that procs not 25% of the time but 50 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing percent... i mean [Removed for Content]? Now you nerf us bruiser yet again ( for starters high end guilds do not like bruisers and as it is, when is the last time U seen a bruiser get an item on a raid?? ) NOW our ability to solo because we're shunned by high end raiding guilds has been [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed? Ur gonna make people quit, cause this is getting tiresome. I like the game, but i hate the fact that you dont do anything good for your players.. OH and did yall read the patch notes.. the arrogance of what sony said ... you felt like being nice so you gave us a free respec? you can shove it up your [Removed for Content]!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>

[MakhailSamma]

<DIV>I always thought I was a bit too bad [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]... :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks Sony, it really was not fair to the other classes out there for me to be this uber! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets see where this leaves me..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sub par tank for raids and groups now (stuns HUGE part of group tanking)..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Decent DPS for raids and groups now (least I got that whole survivability thing going for me)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pretty much NO utility for Raids and Groups now (That giant 24% DPS group buff is pretty uber:smileyindifferent<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can still FD..  :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Glad I'm in a raiding guild full of friends, would hate to try to get a spot in a good raiding guild now as a new Bruiser..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[mr23sgte]

<P>Wow - starting early for monk nerfs and the patch isn't even Live yet? My monk isn't overpowered, I was actually thinking of betraying to bruiser.</P> <P>I always wondered what spell Monks got instead of Fear pre-patch?</P> <P>I assume our Wind walk is what we got for Bruiser Mezz?</P> <P> </P> <P>Dredful 70 Fury Unrest</P> <P>Hereo 66 Monk Unrest</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by mr23sgte on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:23 PM</span>

[ganjookie]

If monks get our Fear I want Track <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Durlinn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mantua1 wrote:<BR> <P><FONT size=4>Is this an issue because of PvP? Kinda almost sounds it (though I could be off base)</FONT> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> Actually, you're right on. This, unfortunately, has been one of the latest, most ridiculous nerf crys on the PVP forums. I really didnt think anything would actually be done, but here it is. Why would anyone on a PVE server care if the brawler classes could use mutiple knockdowns/stuns?? Does having the fear and mez timers the same effect PVE in any way? Was there a big cry about brawler classes being overpowered in PVE??? No, this is a response to the whiners on PVP servers. Sad sad sad.....</P> <P> With the monk addition, and our latest depletion, Id guess someone might be thinking betrayal.....</P>

[Durlinn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Removed by self for trollishness. ;r)</BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Durlinn on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 PM</span>

[mr23sgte]

<BLOCKQUOTE>Removed by trollishness post removal.</BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by mr23sgte on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:22 PM</span>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MutantCrock1905 wrote:<BR> let me start off by saying this ... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you sony! All you do is shaft us bruisers.. monks can get 100% self haste FFS! they get a taunt proc that procs not 25% of the time but 50 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing percent... i mean [Removed for Content]? Now you nerf us bruiser yet again ( for starters high end guilds do not like bruisers and as it is, when is the last time U seen a bruiser get an item on a raid?? ) NOW our ability to solo because we're shunned by high end raiding guilds has been [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed? Ur gonna make people quit, cause this is getting tiresome. I like the game, but i hate the fact that you dont do anything good for your players.. OH and did yall read the patch notes.. the arrogance of what sony said ... you felt like being nice so you gave us a free respec? you can shove it up your [Removed for Content]!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>with 100% self haste monks still are only equal to bruiser dps. your taunt proc also generates more hate then monks and procs damage. i dont think this should really turn into a monk vs bruiser topic...and theres actually tons of brawler raid gear this expansion and bruisers are getting pretty hooked up.</P> <P>i think people are over reacting a little bit here, while i do agree the seperate timers thing isnt really neccissary and does nerf you, its really not that huge of a deal....i dont think any raid guild will turn down a  bruiser because he cant mez and fear heroics at the same time anymore.<BR></P>

[deadsidedemon]

<DIV>The way I see it, the mez/fear thing only means you can no longer handle *2* adds at once (as in, mez one, fear another, beat on the third).  That's similar to the changes enchanters are getting to limit their ability to lock down more than one encounter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whatever ... none of this will affect how much fun I have playing a Bruiser.  I'm truely sorry if you guys don't feel the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[runamonk]

<div><blockquote><hr>RyanTSi wrote:<div></div><p>i dont think any raid guild will turn down a  bruiser because he cant mez and fear heroics at the same time anymore.</p><hr></blockquote>Honestly most people don't even know we can mez or fear.</div>

[MakhailSamma]

<DIV>Here is my strat against a named heroic mob that NOW lets me kill it:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go through a Stun cycle (mixing stuns and other CA's to maximize damage and stun times) and conitue fighting untill I need to heal. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mez mob and wait for some stuns to become available (also use dolls as appropriate).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go through stuns cycle and CA's and either heal or mez depending on health.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mob is eaither dead or I start from beggining again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I now have 2 4-second stuns as well as 2 2-second stuns for a total of 12 seconds of stuns.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the change I will have 2 2.5-second stuns and 2 1.5-second stuns for a total 8 seconds worth of stuns eliminating my stun effectiveness down 1/3 of what it was. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will not give me time to allow my mez to refresh and make so the mob can have even more time to beat me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will put us in line with most other classes as far as soloability and that is the biggest change for our class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will make us a lot more undesired for groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will have little to no impact on raiding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I stated above:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MakhailSammael wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sub par tank for raids and groups now (stuns HUGE part of group tanking)..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Decent DPS for raids and groups now (least I got that whole survivability thing going for me)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pretty much NO utility for Raids and Groups now (That giant 24% DPS group buff is pretty uber:smileyindifferent: )...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>One of the biggest highlights I loved about being a Bruiser was the fact that I could solo so well. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I accepted I was not that most desireable of tanks. (Generally a Gaurdian is the ideal tank, though generally a group/raid will take any plate tank over a Bruiser, especially after we lose 1/3 of our stunning ability, which made us at least equal to plate tanks for grouping)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I accepted I could not put up the biggest DPS. (Assasins, Swashys, Brigands, Monks, Rangers, Conj, Necros, wizzy's, zerkers, and warlocks < of same playing skill> are all able to put up as much or more DPS then I can)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I accepted I did not bring much Utility to groups and raids. (Almost all classes bring more Utility to a group/raid then Bruiser <including debuffs.. which really is a utility for groups/raids imho&gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now they are taking the one thing I truly exelled at and putting me in line with all the other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll still play my Bruiser and will play him to the best of my ability, just gonna miss having something to brag about that most classes could not do (some classes could solo as well as Bruisers, but not many).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've been playing my bruiser before LU13 and will continue to play him till I leave this game.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These changes just have me worried that I might be losing one of the things that I really did well.. :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Time to just wait and see <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[Zigmun]

<P>Madmoon,</P> <P>This is very common, where people take their game and assume all players have the same experience or perspective.</P> <P>The fact is Bruisers really don't have a "role" in a raid. Except the odd time to tank a poison epic or to FD with their feather - oh goodie you saved the raid!</P> <P>Because you don't raid doesn't mean that it is not important to other Bruisers - so please try to see things from other people's perspectives. </P> <P>Facts about raiding Bruisers.</P> <P>There are not a million other high end guilds. This is just false, and I don't know where you got that idea. On our server there is 2 evil guilds high enough to take on high end raid encounter. That's right 2. And neither recruit or have room for Bruisers. PERIOD.</P> <P>Most of the time if you notice your lfg channels on the evil side it is generally Bruisers and SK's, geee I wonder why? or does the Bruiser community as a whole just bury their heads in the sand and as long as it's not them they don't notice????</P> <P>I am an advocate for all bruisers.</P> <P>Back to raiding - Generally on most servers there are very very few guilds that have the players with the knowledge and the playing time to be in "raiding" guilds. So normally there are only 2 or 3 really good ones - the rest do lower end content - and generally that's all they do for a very very very long time.</P> <P>Madmoon if you are in a high end raiding guild grats for you - your experience is not shared by all/most Bruisers - please don't forget that.</P> <P>I am lucky I am the highest lvl Bruiser in my guild, my guild leadership loves me - and my spot is guarenenteed exping or raiding.</P> <P>Doesn't mean that I forget about my brothers or feel for them when I see them lfg or their ability to solo reduced.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[MakhailSamma]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zigmund9 wrote:<BR> <P>Madmoon,</P> <P>This is very common, where people take their game and assume all players have the same experience or perspective.</P> <P>The fact is Bruisers really don't have a "role" in a raid. Except the odd time to tank a poison epic or to FD with their feather - oh goodie you saved the raid!</P> <P>Because you don't raid doesn't mean that it is not important to other Bruisers - so please try to see things from other people's perspectives. </P> <P>Facts about raiding Bruisers.</P> <P>There are not a million other high end guilds. This is just false, and I don't know where you got that idea. On our server there is 2 evil guilds high enough to take on high end raid encounter. That's right 2. And neither recruit or have room for Bruisers. PERIOD.</P> <P>Most of the time if you notice your lfg channels on the evil side it is generally Bruisers and SK's, geee I wonder why? or does the Bruiser community as a whole just bury their heads in the sand and as long as it's not them they don't notice????</P> <P>I am an advocate for all bruisers.</P> <P>Back to raiding - Generally on most servers there are very very few guilds that have the players with the knowledge and the playing time to be in "raiding" guilds. So normally there are only 2 or 3 really good ones - the rest do lower end content - and generally that's all they do for a very very very long time.</P> <P>Madmoon if you are in a high end raiding guild grats for you - your experience is not shared by all/most Bruisers - please don't forget that.</P> <P>I am lucky I am the highest lvl Bruiser in my guild, my guild leadership loves me - and my spot is guarenenteed exping or raiding.</P> <P>Doesn't mean that I forget about my brothers or feel for them when I see them lfg or their ability to solo reduced.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>/agree</P> <P> I too am blessed to be playing with friends and most of my guild has been playing together since day 1 of EQ2 and many of us played together in other MMORPG's before EQ2, so my spot is always there.</P> <P> On Unrest there are about 3 or 4 guilds that I would say are high end raiding guilds. Each one has about 2 Bruisers, though sometimes only 1 high playtime one.</P> <P> Like I said, Bruisers will not be effected to much as far as raiding goes. But, raiding is not what Bruisers were really good at. We serve a purpose, yes, but how often do you see Raiding guilds looking for Bruisers? I, for one, have never seen this. I have never also heard that we need to wait for a raid to begin untill the Bruiser logs in lol. They have waited on me, because they are my friends, but I was in no way "needed",</P> <P> This is going to hurt the other 80% of the Bruiser population. The ones that solo and group. </P> <P> </P>

[ArcticZero]

<P>I sense a plot to destory the Bruiser.......Or something of that nature. </P> <P>I know this is an odd question but anyone else know of a class or two in each arch type that are being slowly chewed up like this? See my paranoia for the day is that they plan to remove the bruiser from the game.. they will nerf us into nothingness one update at a time to the point they just merge us in and make us become monks. </P> <P> </P> <P>I am going to park my bruiser for now. Nothing left in him but raiding and that god aweful claymore quest. Instead I will be playing alts cause it makes me sick when I think of everything to keep doing to the class.  It is kind of odd cause everytime some class gets fixed or balanced it always affects us. It is getting old.. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[MakhailSamma]

<P>LOL</P> <P>Someone should create a timeline of nerfs that have hit us with each update..</P> <P>Would be awesome. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT size=1>I would, but I am too lazy <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MakhailSammael wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> We serve a purpose, yes, but how often do you see Raiding guilds looking for Bruisers? I, for one, have never seen this. I have never also heard that we need to wait for a raid to begin untill the Bruiser logs in lol. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>for the 3 princes :smileyhappy:

[ArcticZero]

<DIV>Don't expect that to say... that has been reported and I believed to be an exploit... cause the mobs are not reseting with the FD trick being used. People are already throwing fits about it to get it stopped. </DIV>

[MutantCrock1905]

<DIV>no longer works</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ArcticZeroEQ wrote:<BR> <DIV>Don't expect that to say... that has been reported and I believed to be an exploit... cause the mobs are not reseting with the FD trick being used. People are already throwing fits about it to get it stopped. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>i wasnt refering to any exploit or fd trick</P>

[TheSummoned]

I haven't parked my bruiser from the day I created her and I definatly don't intend to do it now... Since we're soloing strats, here's a sure bet at how to beat just about any mob that's not stun immune: First you need as much mana regen as you can muster, second you need to have the fabled robe from Nest in BS. 3rd you'll need manastone and last but certainly not least an int and sta hex doll. Alright let's get to business. Pull with the int Hex doll to lower the mobs magic resistances. This will help with mezz resisting. Mob get's close, you mezz. You wait for the mezzes duration and in the mean time you get behind the mob. Alright, let's begin with the CAs. We start off with Iron fist (it's essential that don't use steel fist, or the next stun won't overwrite steel fist's stun), auto attack a few, Callous stomp, auto attack, kidney punch, mezz... At the mezz duration, you use both int and sta hex dolls. Next cycle: Iron fist, aa, callous stomp, aa, uppercut, mezz... Repeat until the mob is dead. Cast your manastone as much as possible. What does the robe do? Well, it has a nice proc for mana that will often proc off of hex dolls since the spell procs are now based off of the casting timers. There's my soloing tactic for tough mobs revealed. <div></div>

[wayfaerer]

The nerfs aren't that bad. It will make a small impact on our utility vs heroic encounters, and reduce our solo ability vs ^^^ nameds by a little.The stun duration nerf is pretty nasty in PvP since previously I had time to get a couple of CAs into someone while they were stunned, but now probably only one.<div></div>The one part I don't understand is the change to sucker punch. What is a daze effect? I read in the Control Changes thread that it's the old name for pacify effects, but that doesn't mean anything to me either. What does daze do?

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSummoned wrote:<BR><BR>Alright let's get to business. Pull with the int Hex doll to lower the mobs magic resistances. This will help with mezz resisting. Mob get's close, you mezz.<BR>You wait for the mezzes duration and in the mean time you get behind the mob. Alright, let's begin with the CAs. We start off with Iron fist (it's essential that don't use steel fist, or the next stun won't overwrite steel fist's stun), auto attack a few, Callous stomp, auto attack, kidney punch, mezz... At the mezz duration, you use both int and sta hex dolls. Next cycle: Iron fist, aa, callous stomp, aa, uppercut, mezz... Repeat until the mob is dead.<BR>Cast your manastone as much as possible.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The problem is, after the proposed changes, your stuns won't last as long, your kidney punch won't even have a stun anymore, and you will have to wait twice as long for your mez to come back up.</P> <P>Your tactic will no longer work on any mob that you can't survive an extra 30-40 seconds of beating, because that's what the nerf is going to do.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for Daze/Pacify... it stops the creature from doing autoattack. Which means they can turn and face you, no knockdown (so no longer used with Callous Stomp), and they can still cast spells/combat arts (heal itself, nuke you, etc).</P> <P>It's still better than nothing, but it's a definate reduction in ability.</P> <P>My question is, are these abilities that are getting nerfed in control going to have an increase in damage? I'm assuming that's why some of them are lower damage, but still long recast. I mean, kidney punch was completely butchered... shouldn't it have some kind of increase to compensate?</P> <P>This would help with survival too, since it can't be stunned as long, at least it would die faster. Or is asking for more DPS taboo these days?<BR></P>

[TheSummoned]

<blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> TheSummoned wrote:Alright let's get to business. Pull with the int Hex doll to lower the mobs magic resistances. This will help with mezz resisting. Mob get's close, you mezz.You wait for the mezzes duration and in the mean time you get behind the mob. Alright, let's begin with the CAs. We start off with Iron fist (it's essential that don't use steel fist, or the next stun won't overwrite steel fist's stun), auto attack a few, Callous stomp, auto attack, kidney punch, mezz... At the mezz duration, you use both int and sta hex dolls. Next cycle: Iron fist, aa, callous stomp, aa, uppercut, mezz... Repeat until the mob is dead.Cast your manastone as much as possible. <hr> </blockquote> <p>The problem is, after the proposed changes, your stuns won't last as long, your kidney punch won't even have a stun anymore, and you will have to wait twice as long for your mez to come back up.</p> <p>Your tactic will no longer work on any mob that you can't survive an extra 30-40 seconds of beating, because that's what the nerf is going to do.</p> <p>As for Daze/Pacify... it stops the creature from doing autoattack. Which means they can turn and face you, no knockdown (so no longer used with Callous Stomp), and they can still cast spells/combat arts (heal itself, nuke you, etc).</p> <p>It's still better than nothing, but it's a definate reduction in ability.</p> <p>My question is, are these abilities that are getting nerfed in control going to have an increase in damage? I'm assuming that's why some of them are lower damage, but still long recast. I mean, kidney punch was completely butchered... shouldn't it have some kind of increase to compensate?</p> <p>This would help with survival too, since it can't be stunned as long, at least it would die faster. Or is asking for more DPS taboo these days?</p><hr></blockquote>I know, is why I post it... I don't expect for soloing to be the same as before, not even close. I wish Throatkick had it's stifle returned.<div></div>

[Errie_Tholluxe]

Your tactic will no longer work on any mob that you can't survive an extra 30-40 seconds of beating, because that's what the nerf is going to do.Yup. TIme to buy up those potions. I usually use my stuns as much as possible, but not as a means to cast a hex or anything, I go to it and dont stop til I or it is dead. CA's from a 'daze' are gonna hurt, and hurt bad. Tons of mobs out there have CA's that are the main reason you would WANT to stun one. Pacify? If its still hittin ya, [Removed for Content] is it pacified? ( I would see pacify as a mez all in itself, heck its what the word means) Been working on those health and mana potions ...looks like i am gonna be needing a few. Will wait to see what ACTUALLY happens, but, as anyone who follows the test notes can tell ya, if it on test now, it'll hit live. Never seen it otherwise.<div></div>

[Thail]

I love how the Monks always cross over here to pee in our cereal and tell us its sugar toppin. Listen you are getting nerfed also Mr. Monk stay over there and fight for your class. They listen to you guys more then the Bruisers! You are a bigger majority. Make some stink and hopefully the Bruisers can follow your curt tails.<div></div>

[CosmicAcidGu]

<blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<p> and you will have to wait twice as long for your mez to come back up.</p><hr></blockquote>could somebody show me where it is stated that mezz has a minute recast now? I haven't seen that in the test update notes. Finnster<div></div>

[Vrnogracan]

all those changes seem to be moving towards a more balanced PvP setup and that is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] annoying, i play PvE and if am angry that i have to be affected by a different format, PvP should not affect PvE and vica versa

[Elephant]

<P>I am so upset - these mob control changes affect Bruisers times more then any other class. For example, with my necro 60 on Runnyeye, I could not cate less about these changes - I just don't use root/fear (very rare). Same with my Inq on Darathar. I just don't care about all this.</P> <P>However, Bruiser's ability to keep mob stunned big part of the time is class defining!  Because Bruisers just cannot take many hits with leather armor.  OMG, there's no way they can do the proposed changes without screwing Bruisers. I think Sony should review the applicability of this update to leather wearing tanks, I mean seriously.</P><p>Message Edited by Elephanton on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:16 AM</span>

[KeandraD]

As I said in another thread... We'll get our love too, just hang in there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[ganjookie]

Rumor has it Bruisers will be getting  nuclear bomb punch, or corse when it is used you and your party die<div></div>

[MakhailSamma]

<DIV>and a roundhouse kick which kills everything in a raid zone including your raid.</DIV>

[Shipwreck_GPA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ganjookie wrote:<BR>Rumor has it Bruisers will be getting  nuclear bomb punch, or corse when it is used you and your party die<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, please. I would LOVE it.</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Errie_Tholluxe]

<div><blockquote><hr>GPA_Shipwreck wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> ganjookie wrote:Rumor has it Bruisers will be getting  nuclear bomb punch, or corse when it is used you and your party die <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Yes, please. I would LOVE it.</p> <p>:smileyvery-happy:</p><hr></blockquote> Everybody ZONE ! * BOOM* ok zone in and res me would ya? cleared out the trash.</div>

[Shipwreck_GPA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Errie_Tholluxe wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GPA_Shipwreck wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ganjookie wrote:<BR>Rumor has it Bruisers will be getting  nuclear bomb punch, or corse when it is used you and your party die<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, please. I would LOVE it.</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Everybody ZONE ! * BOOM* ok zone in and res me would ya? cleared out the trash.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I wouldn't even care if the raid WAS there. Soon as someone talked smack about your DPS or losing aggro or whatever, you could feign death the raid without the feign part, revive, and then ask if there were any more comments from the peanut gallery. </P> <P>That is a Bruiser move.</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[ganjookie]

issues might be lingering radiation and EMP damage to gnomish parts (i watch history channels future weapons <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<div></div>

[Mantua1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ganjookie wrote:<BR>issues might be lingering radiation and EMP damage to gnomish parts (i watch history channels future weapons <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>some of the new class armor includes face masks with filters sticking out the end and there will be this erie glow everywhere

[Pnaxx]

With Mez and Fear not being available at the same time, I can see whay some arte upset and some are not. It seems that most folks took Bruiser for SOLOING and that will not really effect that all that much....but it will some. But over all, Bruisers will still be Uber in that dept like olde tymes. If you get an add that needs to be feared ro mezed and you can't, then yea, you may have a tough decision to make...as the Clash said..."Should I stay or should I go now....." Emaning in the fight....fight or flee...or FD....no biggy though....and dun worry bout Monks, they will get theirs too in due tyme....but they are weaklings at the moment and need all the help they can get.:smileyvery-happy:

[Thail]

I for one would like an explanation as to why the stuns are being changed. Is it cause some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hat Monk posted a pic of soloing a mob and people got thier panties in a bunch? Or is there another reason? Just want an explantion as to why my class is being changed so much. <div></div>

[OperationsX]

<DIV>Shut up you whiney bruisers, you will now outdps summoners by a large margin thanks to the big summoner nerf.  High end T2 dps just incase yah forgot with the parses showing you too close to us in DPS and outdpsing T1 sorcerers btw on raids AND you can still tank, everyone is getting the stifle/stun nerf aside chanters, you act like its just you getting that cuz your a 'fighter' and you just happen to tank. 'Daze' effects will still allow you to tank and you will still be overpowered in DPS thanks to the devs listening to the whiney sorcerers saying summoners outdpsed em on most raids meanwhile so did rogues,brawlers hell even warriors (tier 4!!) outdpsed em too ...but nooo just nerf the 'overpowered' summoners that their pets didn't have enough survivablity to last one AE round in the beginning. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So just seriously shut up, you didn't get nerfed ..if you dont want your bruiser I'll gladly trade you my REAL nerfed Conjuror. Right now, lets do it! What I thought.</DIV><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class=date_text>05-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>

[Errie_Tholluxe]

 Phhhhhhht. I have a necro a conj AND a bruiser. Bite me big boy.<div></div>

[Deeds]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR> <DIV>Shut up you whiney bruisers, you will now outdps summoners by a large margin thanks to the big summoner nerf.  High end T2 dps just incase yah forgot with the parses showing you too close to us in DPS and outdpsing T1 sorcerers btw on raids AND you can still tank, everyone is getting the stifle/stun nerf aside chanters, you act like its just you getting that cuz your a 'fighter' and you just happen to tank. 'Daze' effects will still allow you to tank and you will still be overpowered in DPS thanks to the devs listening to the whiney sorcerers saying summoners outdpsed em on most raids meanwhile so did rogues,brawlers hell even warriors (tier 4!!) outdpsed em too ...but nooo just nerf the 'overpowered' summoners that their pets didn't have enough survivablity to last one AE round in the beginning. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So just seriously shut up, you didn't get nerfed ..if you dont want your bruiser I'll gladly trade you my REAL nerfed Conjuror. Right now, lets do it! What I thought.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by OperationsX on <SPAN class=date_text>05-13-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:44 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ypu do realize that bruisers can NOT put out that t1 dps without the proper raid grp right?  That means having a dps buffer and haste buffer, proc buffer, and a agro reducer in the grp.  That means we have to rely on many other classes to reach our maximum dps potential.  Im sorry you can no longer send your pet in, go pp, go grab a coke and come back and woot your #1 on the dps parser.</P> <P>Without the proper grp make up, we basically deliver average dps in a raid situation, so relax there guy.</P> <P> </P> <P>Tzing Tao<BR></P>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deedbit wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR> <DIV>Shut up you whiney bruisers, you will now outdps summoners by a large margin thanks to the big summoner nerf.  High end T2 dps just incase yah forgot with the parses showing you too close to us in DPS and outdpsing T1 sorcerers btw on raids AND you can still tank, everyone is getting the stifle/stun nerf aside chanters, you act like its just you getting that cuz your a 'fighter' and you just happen to tank. 'Daze' effects will still allow you to tank and you will still be overpowered in DPS thanks to the devs listening to the whiney sorcerers saying summoners outdpsed em on most raids meanwhile so did rogues,brawlers hell even warriors (tier 4!!) outdpsed em too ...but nooo just nerf the 'overpowered' summoners that their pets didn't have enough survivablity to last one AE round in the beginning. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So just seriously shut up, you didn't get nerfed ..if you dont want your bruiser I'll gladly trade you my REAL nerfed Conjuror. Right now, lets do it! What I thought.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by OperationsX on <SPAN class=date_text>05-13-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:44 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ypu do realize that bruisers can NOT put out that t1 dps without the proper raid grp right?  That means having a dps buffer and haste buffer, proc buffer, and a agro reducer in the grp.  That means we have to rely on many other classes to reach our maximum dps potential.  Im sorry you can no longer send your pet in, go pp, go grab a coke and come back and woot your #1 on the dps parser.</P> <P>Without the proper grp make up, we basically deliver average dps in a raid situation, so relax there guy.</P> <P> </P> <P>Tzing Tao<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh yah lets see, put you with a zerker or dirge - T1 dps achieved. Same as put me with a paladin to amends my pet or guardian to moderate my pet, T1 dps achieved. We were on the same level when it came to raid mobs and you know it. Oh unless you just happen to conviently ignore parsers, then you dont know I guess... <P>But that's fine keep denying it, apparently sorcerers are too blind and SOE with their 'world wide constant parsers' believes it so you'll never get nerfed. So that's cool play coy , dont be upset when there's 0 brawler masters cuz suddenly all the summoners are rerolling brawlers though, don't you dare.</P><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class=date_text>05-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:07 PM</span>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Errie_Tholluxe wrote:<BR> Phhhhhhht. I have a necro a conj AND a bruiser. Bite me big boy.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Do they all raid?

[Owa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT size=3>I think you're off your head mate. Pet classes are the most overpowered class in both PvE and PvP - and they can solo like nobody's business.  The tank pets have more hitpoints than a tank class of the same level and the DPS pets consistently come highest in raids. That alone would make you overpowered - but you also get swarm pets and a host of non pet-based spells. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>Summoners are a one man army and if you don't think your class is powerful enough I suggest you see a psychiatrist.</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Errie_Tholluxe]

<blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Errie_Tholluxe wrote: Phhhhhhht. I have a necro a conj AND a bruiser. Bite me big boy. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Do they all raid?<hr></blockquote>Necro yes, all the time. Bruiser occasionally. Conj, no. I DO however have access to a ton of data on all three classes from raid parses. Often, because of group make up our monk and bruisers outdamage me, and in fact I would say MOST of the time. Mostly due to the group makeups though. Mid length fight I beat em every time, specially if they are busy holding agro.<div></div>

[Revjak18]

I honestly don't see why you guys are upset about this LU for a few reasons.1.  If you raid with your bruiser, pretty much nothing is getting changed, we couldnt stun raid mobs in the first place(ever since KoS came out anyway).  We will still be good dps(right below the summoners and assassins in my experience(sometimes beating the assassins)).2.  If you picked a bruiser so you could solo heroics, then you picked your class for the wrong reason.  You should expect a nerf if its widely known your class can do that as SOE has stated before that it wasnt their intention for ppl to solo heroics).  Sure i like being able to solo every named in sanctum ;p, but it is a luxury that i know i shouldn't have lol.3.  As to the monk getting our fear thing, i think they could use the love <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  I consistently beat the monks in my guild at dps on every raid, most of the times even if i am in a group that hardly buffs dps and they are in a group with a dirge, zerker, or coercer(sometimes both).  One of the monks in my guild even told me today he was thinking about betraying to bruiser hehe.As for group tanking, i can see how the stun thing really hurts our tanking there, but I don't think that it will [Removed for Content] us as some of the posters here are stating.  Even without my stuns, i still dodge really well and the healer i group with a lot even says that its extremely easy for her to heal when im tanking.Effrum70 Bruiser of Second DawnNajena<div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Oh yah lets see, put you with a zerker or dirge - T1 dps achieved. Same as put me with a paladin to amends my pet or guardian to moderate my pet, T1 dps achieved. We were on the same level when it came to raid mobs and you know it. Oh unless you just happen to conviently ignore parsers, then you dont know I guess... </FONT> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>But that's fine keep denying it, apparently sorcerers are too blind and SOE with their 'world wide constant parsers' believes it so you'll never get nerfed. So that's cool play coy , dont be upset when there's 0 brawler masters cuz suddenly all the summoners are rerolling brawlers though, don't you dare.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>It takes a bit more than some strength and a smidge of mana regen. First off, it takes a whole bunch of other classes specifically targetting me with Haste and DPS boosts, as well as a smattering of procs, before I can achieve really high DPS. Second, as a bruiser 50% of my DPS (even with autoattack boosted nearly max) is from my CAs and procs... so unless I have enough mana regen I'm dropping in DPS there as well. And third, unless I can somehow shed the aggro from this extra DPS, I'm gonna screw up the tried and tested "1 tank keeps aggro" flow and potentially ruin things.</P> <P>And it takes a bit more than bard regen to keep up constant CAs... despite enchanters [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about bard regen, they've got a load of regen abilities for in combat (I know, I play a coercer too).</P> <P>It usually takes at least +haste, +dps, a couple procs, increased strength, really good mana regen, and some way of shedding the aggro to get reliable high DPS. That takes at least the attention of 4 people. If an entire group focuses their attention on a person, of course they are going to PARSE high...</P> <P>You know why SOE doesn't considered us T1 DPS, even though we list high on parses? <EM>Because of other peoples efforts.</EM> If procs listed damage to the person who cast the spell... if the extra damage you do on autoattack is attributed to the classes that cast those buffs on you... then we'd already see a huge difference in parses. And that still wouldn't even take into account mana regen and aggro shedding.</P> <P> </P> <P>I discovered something once... we had a group of 5 playing. It was inquisitor, bezerker, myself (Bruiser), a warlock, and a scout (i think a swashbuckler). I was parsing our fights. We had a coercer join, and I looked at his personal DPS as being about 4th in line, something like 300 DPS... however our group as a whole was doing on average 900 more DPS than without him (and this was in the late 50s!). That was a true testament to how much DPS the enchanter can bring to the group, regardless of how they parse individually.</P> <P>And it just shows how Fighters (and others) can be tools for administering the full DPS of the rest of the people. People just need to get over these parse numbers already... it's not a freaking [Removed for Content] contest, put it away.</P></DIV>

[PhozFa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div> <div>Shut up you whiney bruisers, you will now outdps summoners by a large margin thanks to the big summoner nerf.  High end T2 dps just incase yah forgot with the parses showing you too close to us in DPS and outdpsing T1 sorcerers btw on raids AND you can still tank, everyone is getting the stifle/stun nerf aside chanters, you act like its just you getting that cuz your a 'fighter' and you just happen to tank. 'Daze' effects will still allow you to tank and you will still be overpowered in DPS thanks to the devs listening to the whiney sorcerers saying summoners outdpsed em on most raids meanwhile so did rogues,brawlers hell even warriors (tier 4!!) outdpsed em too ...but nooo just nerf the 'overpowered' summoners that their pets didn't have enough survivablity to last one AE round in the beginning. </div> <div> </div> <div>So just seriously shut up, you didn't get nerfed ..if you dont want your bruiser I'll gladly trade you my REAL nerfed Conjuror. Right now, lets do it! What I thought.</div><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class="date_text">05-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:44 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>ahh finally my ban on the forums is lifted i can post..... Your insane if you don't think this is an indirect nerf on us. On live servers atm i can solo alot of lvl yellow heriocs fairly smoothly. After the changes i won't. I'm not crying that i won't be able to solo yellow heriocs. That is over powered. But its still a nerf and saying otherwise is insane. Its also crazy to not think conj DPS is overpowered. Like i stated we were overpwered in solo situations but the problems now comes in tanking. Our primary role is supposed to be a tank.  This  indirectly effects our tanking. Ask a experienced healer the diffrence between  healing a brawler and a a plate tank. They will confirm its harder to keep us up due to damage spikes. Our control ability of a mob is being reduced by like 1/3 or something like that. That means in groups we will take more damage and more importantly run a greater risk of getting killed with a decreased control powers in those red health situations. Now i don't know how to balance that out without giving us uber solo ability but hey i don't have all the answers. When it comes to raids.... not much will change for us. We still will do acceptable dps with high HPs to soak an AE. but there is alot of other classes that can do DPS with more to bring to the table. the other thing we are supposed to bring to the table is tanking. I know some brawlers do tank raid mobs but realisticly whats the % of raids tanked by warriors or even crusaders compared to brawlers. Why? We can preform a job on a raid but being other classes do it we are usually not sought after for a raiding guild and we aren't the only class to have this problem. In closing, I'll still play my bruiser no sence in rolling another class cause classes change so much in this game. The whole idea of a bruiser is fun. and operations i don't see the point of you trolling us cause you got a nerf also. We all knew these nerfs were comming (to brawlers and summoners) EDIT: Also about fear... seriosuly is this a big issue on pve servers? I guess on pvp it may be more of an issue but I do just fine without fear. Fear can cause more harm than good. <div></div><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class=date_text>05-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:01 AM</span>

[Revjak18]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>PhozFate wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote:<div></div> <div>Shut up you whiney bruisers, you will now outdps summoners by a large margin thanks to the big summoner nerf.  High end T2 dps just incase yah forgot with the parses showing you too close to us in DPS and outdpsing T1 sorcerers btw on raids AND you can still tank, everyone is getting the stifle/stun nerf aside chanters, you act like its just you getting that cuz your a 'fighter' and you just happen to tank. 'Daze' effects will still allow you to tank and you will still be overpowered in DPS thanks to the devs listening to the whiney sorcerers saying summoners outdpsed em on most raids meanwhile so did rogues,brawlers hell even warriors (tier 4!!) outdpsed em too ...but nooo just nerf the 'overpowered' summoners that their pets didn't have enough survivablity to last one AE round in the beginning. </div> <div> </div> <div>So just seriously shut up, you didn't get nerfed ..if you dont want your bruiser I'll gladly trade you my REAL nerfed Conjuror. Right now, lets do it! What I thought.</div><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class="date_text">05-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:44 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>ahh finally my ban on the forums is lifted i can post..... Your insane if you don't think this is an indirect nerf on us. On live servers atm i can solo alot of lvl yellow heriocs fairly smoothly. After the changes i won't. I'm not crying that i won't be able to solo yellow heriocs. That is over powered. But its still a nerf and saying otherwise is insane. Its also crazy to not think conj DPS is overpowered.  <font color="#ff0000">Indeed, although its not just our melee class that got hit. Zerkers, for one, get hit almost harder than us with this.  They have a SEVEN second stun thats getting turned into a daze and other stuns that are getting the same decrease as us.  Also warlocks and a few other casters are losing stun abilities on some of their abilities.  This stun thing is hitting everyone, not just us.</font> Like i stated we were overpwered in solo situations but the problems now comes in tanking. Our primary role is supposed to be a tank.  This  indirectly effects our tanking. Ask a experienced healer the diffrence between  healing a brawler and a a plate tank. They will confirm its harder to keep us up due to damage spikes. Our control ability of a mob is being reduced by like 1/3 or something like that. That means in groups we will take more damage and more importantly run a greater risk of getting killed with a decreased control powers in those red health situations. Now i don't know how to balance that out without giving us uber solo ability but hey i don't have all the answers.<font color="#ff3300">  I made my guy for dps <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />(although i do tank a lot in group situations and the healers i group with say that while i do dmg spike more than a plate tank, its easier to heal me from yellow or orange than the plate tank, as they keep getting hit and I dodge a crazy amount compared to them(my avoidance while in tank mode solo is around 75%, closer to 77% with shake off).  In group situations, it equals out.  Plate tanks might have a slighter advantage but meh, we get the faster killing advantage as we do great dps while tanking compared to them.</font> When it comes to raids.... not much will change for us. We still will do acceptable dps with high HPs to soak an AE. but there is alot of other classes that can do DPS with more to bring to the table. the other thing we are supposed to bring to the table is tanking. I know some brawlers do tank raid mobs but realisticly whats the % of raids tanked by warriors or even crusaders compared to brawlers. Why? We can preform a job on a raid but being other classes do it we are usually not sought after for a raiding guild and we aren't the only class to have this problem.  <font color="#ff0000">I'm a little curious, what is everyone's average dps on raids, or more importantly, your ranking in dps, as dps is affected not just by you but by how hard every dps in the raid tries.  I'm usually anywhere from 2nd-4th on the chart, around 900-1100ish dps.(even without dps/haste buffers i can get that, just not every fight, more like 3 out of 5 fights).  As for tanking, we get the dps and utility to make up for our lack of raid tanking ability compared to the plate tanks(not so much the dps buff, but magic absorb, and if you don't call Feign Death a useful utility you're insane, cough moorgard cough cough.)  The only discrepancy i see here is berzerkers who when dpsing can come close or beat me on dps(usually only on ae fights though.)</font> In closing, I'll still play my bruiser no sence in rolling another class cause classes change so much in this game. The whole idea of a bruiser is fun. and operations i don't see the point of you trolling us cause you got a nerf also. We all knew these nerfs were comming (to brawlers and summoners) EDIT: Also about fear... seriosuly is this a big issue on pve servers? I guess on pvp it may be more of an issue but I do just fine without fear. Fear can cause more harm than good. <div></div><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class="date_text">05-14-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:01 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>As for the mez/fear thing, the only time i've really needed it is soloing even con or yellow heroics, which is overpowered anyway.  Even then, i still only needed it if i got an add.  The stun thing in general was a needed change to a lot of classes, ours included.  I just hope that after this they look into coercers soloing things like enmity, skylord, and the dragons in PoA, since chanters dont seem to be getting nerfed in this LU, just buffed.(About a week ago a coercer in my guild said if he wanted he could solo any of the heroic content in the game if he wanted to, thats not overpowered?)Effrum70 Bruiser of Second DawnNajena</div><p>Message Edited by Revjak18 on <span class=date_text>05-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:38 AM</span>

[OperationsX]

<DIV>Nerfing stuns to 'dazes' doesn't effect your overpowered dps ... the summoner 'balance' DOES effect our dps , see the difference? If not then don't talk. Btw I'm not saying were weren't overpowered, I'm saying YOU will still be overpowered and you know it...but that's fine keep denying it, even though you dont need to, your lead dev plays the class so I'm sure you'll be doing just fine.</DIV><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class=date_text>05-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:54 AM</span>

[OperationsX]

<P>OMG SOE STOP HTMLING BUGGING ME!</P> <P> </P> <P>Raidi all I gotta say is if you think berserkers only gives you 'some STR' and Dirges only gives you 'a smidge of mana regen' you seriously have no right to comment on others dps, AT ALL ....</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Raidi all I gotta say is if you think berserkers only gives you 'some STR' and Dirges only gives you 'a smidge of mana regen' you seriously have no right to comment on others dps, AT ALL ....</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P>I understated their abilities, just like you overstate theirs. I did it for effect.</P> <P>I have a dirge, my brother plays a zerker. For zerkers, the strength really is inconsequential since multiple classes (even some mages) can max me out on strength anyways. Their beserking will not max us out, not even when combined with the dirge, with regards to haste or +DPS.</P> <P>I know that Dirges bring a few stats, a minor proc, some mana regen and can give the MT more Hate... however that one class is NOT enough to make be GOD of DPS or something. Not even with the zerker.</P> <P> </P> <P>What I'm saying is that when I parse my long fights, and epics, I find that around 50% of my damage comes from autoattack (at max haste and nearly max DPS), and then there's another 10-15% from procs, and the rest is from spammed combat arts. Things like Master 1 Knockout Combination REQUIRE spamming my abilities to get the full use, and most damage.</P> <P>I'm sorry, but a dirge and a zerker aren't going to make me hit the max... I need at least an enchanter class, along with a bard, as well as a zerker and some mages for their procs.</P> <P> </P> <P>The heart of the matter is: <EM>we are not accomplishing all this on our own, we need other people's DPS producing abilities to accomplish this</EM>. You can ignore this fact if you want and nitpick details, but I'm honestly done responding to you unless you have anything less trollish to say.</P> <P> </P></DIV>

[PhozFa]

<div></div><removed post due to me being an [Removed for Content] and wish to not get banned for another week.. sorry> <div></div><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:10 AM</span>

[Owa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote:<BR> <removed post due to me being an [Removed for Content] and wish to not get banned for another week.. sorry><BR> <P>Message Edited by PhozFate on <SPAN class=date_text>05-15-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:10 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT size=3>Hey Phoz, what do you have to do to get banned? I've been writing crap for years now and seem to have got away with it so far...:smileyvery-happy:</FONT><p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:23 AM</span>