Another Day, Another Bruiser Nerf

[Quicksilver74]

<DIV>Well I logged on today, thinking the worst of the nerf-spree from LU 23 was over... only to find that Deathtoll loot was improved!   A Smile came to my face, as I thought that SOE would redeem themselves from yesterday's hate-fest on brawlers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    So I log in only to find that nearly every brawler item from Deathtoll was also nerfed, or changed ever so slightly that it's basicly no change at all.   I only see one Item that actually got an improvement.... and everything else was nerfed.   Why do you feel the need to nerf our only remaining good loot.... after nerfing all of our Lyceum loot?   Why not just erase all monks and bruisres from the game.   Would that make you happy?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Why oh why do you hate Brawlers SOE?   Bruisers especially?   </DIV> <DIV>Ever since Kingdom of Sky came out we have gotten nerfed over and over and over and over......   It really makes the little happy faces that live in my head want to roll over and die.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could go into very lengthy detail if I explained every nerf... but you know what you did.     Do you guys really feel that we are so overpowered?  </DIV>

[ganjookie]

<div></div>Heres to hoping this will make you smile<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif">Kill the BABY!!!<div></div><p>Message Edited by ganjookie on <span class=date_text>05-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:30 PM</span>

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>ganjookie wrote:<div></div>Heres to hoping this will make you smile<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/Ganjookie/zangiefsmall2dn.gif">Kill the BABY!!!<div></div><p>Message Edited by ganjookie on <span class="date_text">05-04-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:30 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] i just watched that for an hour straight<div></div>

[Mobias66]

<div></div>now that did make me laugh lol<div></div>

[QQ-Fatman]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102219#M102219" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=102219#M102219</A><BR>more nerf comming soon - knockdown 4sec -> 2.5sec.... sigh...</DIV>

[PhozFa]

<div></div><div></div>come on vanguard but its wierd how chanters will be allowed to mex/stun epics and we get nerfed and it doesn't say anything about us being allowed to do the same? I think this will take us from being overpowered to underpowered. Since our tanking will get a shot in the groin might as well make us officially a T2 dps class and make our taunts into detaunts <span>:smileytongue:</span><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class=date_text>05-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:43 PM</span>

[Zigmun]

<P>Typical SOE,</P> <P>it's why I left EQ1 and SWG</P> <P>Was hoping that they would learn their lesson - player fun doesn't seem to be something SOE understands.</P>

[PhozFa]

I'm not mad our stuns are being nerfed. I can understand why. what it think is stupid is the fact that it took them what, 8 or 9 months after the CC to realize it? <div></div>

[Suraklin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quicksilver74 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well I logged on today, thinking the worst of the nerf-spree from LU 23 was over... only to find that Deathtoll loot was improved!   A Smile came to my face, as I thought that SOE would redeem themselves from yesterday's hate-fest on brawlers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    So I log in only to find that nearly every brawler item from Deathtoll was also nerfed, or changed ever so slightly that it's basicly no change at all.   I only see one Item that actually got an improvement.... and everything else was nerfed.   Why do you feel the need to nerf our only remaining good loot.... after nerfing all of our Lyceum loot?   <FONT color=#cc0066>Why not just erase all monks and bruisres from the game.   Would that make you happy?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>   Why oh why do you hate Brawlers SOE?   Bruisers especially?   </DIV> <DIV>Ever since Kingdom of Sky came out we have gotten nerfed over and over and over and over......   It really makes the little happy faces that live in my head want to roll over and die.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could go into very lengthy detail if I explained every nerf... but you know what you did.     Do you guys really feel that we are so overpowered?  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Careful there. SOE has done things like that. The NGE to SWG erased like 22-23 professions from that game. Don't be surprised if they one day say there's too many classes to work on we've got to get rid of most of them and only have the main ones that were in EQ1.

[Prothos]

This is effecting the whole brawler community. ./Sigh<p>Message Edited by Prothos on <span class=date_text>05-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:20 AM</span>

[Gobbwin]

<P>It's not suprizing really, it's just typical SOE, just like Zig said.  I really think that their philosophy is rather than making a targeted fix to a broken game mechanic or class, make a sweeping change that affects virtually every class in the game.  "If you've gotta [Removed for Content] one off, you might as well [Removed for Content] 'em all off so we don't appear to be picking on anyone."</P> <P>I believe they went through 2 or 3 Combat Updates in SWG before the game finally tanked, and they were equivalant in scale as to what ours was back in August.  I think their crowning moment in that game was when they removed an entire class.  First they nerf them into oblivion, then in typical SOE fasion they attempted to appeal to the POed masses by saying that a fix for that class was imminent.  Months later with little to no warning, they just up and removed the class instead of fixing it.  </P> <P>As another example, look at KEI (mana regen buff) and AEGO (HP/AC buff) from EQlive. When those were introduced into the game, anyone could receive the buff (even a lvl 1).  You could pretty much start a new toon of any class and solo power level it up easily into the late teens, early 20s before the buffs would wear off.  Essentially every class could solo well into their 50s w/ those buffs.  So anywho, long story short, after I think around 2 years of this, they finally decided that was overpowering and restricted the buffs to lvl 45+.  Why the long delay?  Who knows...</P> <P>O yea, I just remembered the Gates of Discord expansion.  For those of you who didn't play EQ when it came out, consider yourselves lucky.  Shortly after it's release, SOE actually apologized to the entire fanbase for even releasing it.  They basically tried to make an expansion entirely for the highest levels.  Unfortunately the way that they made it challenging was they took a normal 1 group encounter mob, increased it's HP by 5-10 times and allowed it to hit for several K HP (thats even w/ high avoidance or miti).  What was sad was that was the AVERAGE mob in that expansion, they pretty much got harder from there.  Couple that with the fact that the zones were constantly crashing...</P> <P>Sorry to get on a tangent, but it is very irritating to watch how they change things.  First they make a change to something that may or may not have been a problem (often everything was fine w/ what they are 'tweaking').  That in turn causes 'unexpected' changes which breaks yet another thing and/or makes certain classes 'overpowered'.  Which puts them on SOE's radar to blugeon with the nerf bat...6 -10+ months after the change was made.  Infact so long afterwards that the class or broken game mechanic has become accustomed to the changes and often come to rely on.  </P>

[jhessal69]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote:<BR> come on vanguard<BR> <P>Message Edited by PhozFate on <SPAN class=date_text>05-04-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:43 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hate to burst your bubble, but Vanguard isnt all that. Its just another MMO in a long string.<BR>

[PhozFa]

<div></div>yea its an mmo that will have its issues. Since your obviously in beta (commenting on it) i'm sorry your experience isn't what you like. But not to derail the thread I've been looking to vg for a variety of other reasons i won't bother to list here. To sum it up when it comes to certain mmo subjects VG devs and EQ2 devs see a little diffrently and i personally share some views with thier devs. Not saying that game will be the mmo to end all mmorpgs but i haven't felt the same about eq2 since LU13 oh and btw, the "come on vanguard" comment was supposed to be taken sarcasticly. It wasn't meant to whine about how these changes are gonna make me quit and go to VG, but rather to whine about how these changes are gonna hurt our primary role <div></div><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class=date_text>05-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:16 AM</span>

[Gungo]

<P>This imho is the biggest nerf to bruisers in a bit. I rely on stuns alot since i knew they were powerful. Well this is really how it should be, sadly. this will hurt alot and truly this will lvl the group tanking and our ability to solo quite a bit. On a side note good thing enchanters are gettign alot of love they finally needed it.</P> <P>In total i agree the changes needed to be done. I also believe the stun nerf will hurt us a bit as well. this will truly keep us from being overpower if people thought we were before. </P>

[Signal9]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <P>This imho is the biggest nerf to bruisers in a bit. I rely on stuns alot since i knew they were powerful. Well this is really how it should be, sadly. this will hurt alot and truly this will lvl the group tanking and our ability to solo quite a bit. On a side note good thing enchanters are gettign alot of love they finally needed it.</P> <P>In total i agree the changes needed to be done. I also believe the stun nerf will hurt us a bit as well. this will truly keep us from being overpower if people thought we were before. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Please do not think that this is what enchanters requested.  We asked for some help, and specifically stated taht nerfing the rest of the game to make us feel better was NOT the way to go.  I guess it serves us right for asking for help, though.</P> <P>My main is a 67 Coercer, but my main alt is a 42 Bruiser, so I know exactly how bad this is for you folks.</P> <P>And I tend to doubt that this will do much positive for Enchanters.  Being able to stun a mob for 5 seconds out of every 42 is not much of an improvement.</P> <P>THis change will do more to destroy enchanters abilities in solo/small group than it will buff us for Raids.  None of us are all that happy with it.</P>

[Gungo]

<P>No enchanters did not but i do agree with the changes. Brawlers where very reliant on stuns though for solo and for groups. (HINT: now might be a good time to add a mitigation AA to brawlers and crusaders (who also have stuns)).</P> <P>5 secs out of 42 on an epic fight helps a ton. But thsi does not fix many enchanter problems such as broken abilites (cough possesion) broken skill lines (cough power drain). Weak abilites (cough charm lasting short durations)</P> <P> </P> <P>Charm should be an unbreakable long full duration pet ability usable only on heroic or less mobs. Once charmed an npc should make resist checks to obey the coercers commands. Once charmed possesion should be used (short duration super charm) so that the coercer has complete NPC control. basically charmed pets should have a more verbose pet control window.</P>

[Quicksilver74]

BTW I just noticed our Feign Death has been downgraded to the previous Tier level.... IE T7 FD now is about the same as T6 used to be.   Mine is adept 3 and fails ALOT now....   Thanks for the punch in the face Sony!

[ArcticZero]

<P>I'm not one to complain much but this is getting very very old. Every "fix" to another class takes more and more away from my bruiser. To many more "fixes" of other classes and I'm sure they will just get rid of our class all together. </P> <P> </P> <P>As for the FD mine failed a tremdous amount lastnight. I was kind of shocked to be honest. </P>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quicksilver74 wrote:<BR> BTW I just noticed our Feign Death has been downgraded to the previous Tier level.... IE T7 FD now is about the same as T6 used to be.   Mine is adept 3 and fails ALOT now....   Thanks for the punch in the face Sony!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There was never supposed to be a T7 FD on live.  However the recipe for the adept 3 made it into the game (however the adept1 and master 1 did not).  Instead of taking it completely away from everyone who used a rare on the spell, they lowered the % to be the same as T6 master 1 FD so people would still get something from the rare they used but the scaling of FD success % stayed where it should.</P> <P>MG posted about this fix before it happened.</P>

[Quicksilver74]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quicksilver74 wrote:<BR> BTW I just noticed our Feign Death has been downgraded to the previous Tier level.... IE T7 FD now is about the same as T6 used to be.   Mine is adept 3 and fails ALOT now....   Thanks for the punch in the face Sony!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There was never supposed to be a T7 FD on live.  However the recipe for the adept 3 made it into the game (however the adept1 and master 1 did not).  Instead of taking it completely away from everyone who used a rare on the spell, they lowered the % to be the same as T6 master 1 FD so people would still get something from the rare they used but the scaling of FD success % stayed where it should.</P> <P>MG posted about this fix before it happened.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It still fails way too much to be counted on.   <BR></DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quicksilver74 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>It still fails way too much to be counted on.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/shrug</P> <P>I guess its just random.  I used it a few days ago to get to the Harla instance in Temple of Scale.<BR></P>

[Durlinn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jhessal69 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhozFate wrote:<BR> come on vanguard<BR> <P>Message Edited by PhozFate on <SPAN class=date_text>05-04-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:43 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hate to burst your bubble, but Vanguard isnt all that. Its just another MMO in a long string.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I believe SOE is purchasing Vanguard. Deja vu anyone?

[ganjookie]

Hey SOE is <font face="Garamond"><b><font size="7">NOT</font></b></font> purchasing vanguard, please for the love of god, dont post false info<div></div>

[Owa]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Non-Gameplay&message.id=340166" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Non-Gameplay&message.id=340166</A></DIV>

[TheSummoned]

SOE will be in charge of billing, technical support (= as customer support), station access and some other stuff. Sigil signed this because that way they're closer to their "vision", which MS didn't provide or didn't agree with. Anyway, MS didn't step down, all 3 companies are in a way involved in Vanguard. But still and only Sigil will do changes to their game. <div></div>

[ganjookie]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheSummoned wrote:SOE will be in charge of billing, technical support (= <font color="#ff9933">as customer support)</font>, station access and some other stuff. Sigil signed this because that way they're closer to their "vision", which MS didn't provide or didn't agree with. Anyway, MS didn't step down, all 3 companies are in a way involved in Vanguard. But still and only Sigil will do changes to their game. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Nope Sigil will have thier own Customer Support still.Try <a href="http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304" target=_blank>THIS</a> for reference</div>

[DarkMirrax]

<P>hahaha great move by soe , fair play to them ... now all the winers who are going to go to vanguard are just going to give SOE more money lol !!!!!!</P> <P>And as for vanguard not being all that .........bull it rocks </P>

[TheSummoned]

<blockquote><hr>ganjookie wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>TheSummoned wrote:SOE will be in charge of billing, technical support (<font color="#ff0000"><b>=</b></font> <font color="#ff9933">as customer support)</font>, station access and some other stuff. Sigil signed this because that way they're closer to their "vision", which MS didn't provide or didn't agree with. Anyway, MS didn't step down, all 3 companies are in a way involved in Vanguard. But still and only Sigil will do changes to their game. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Nope Sigil will have thier own Customer Support still.Try <a href="http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304" target="_blank">THIS</a> for reference</div><hr></blockquote>See highlighted red text <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Well, guess "doesn't equal" is kinda strange to type out...<div></div>

[Gungo]

Lol what will happen to the stuns on knockout combo? They are already 1 sec stuns. Anything less then 0.5 secs and they effectivly become interrupts.

[ganjookie]

<div></div>HAH I thought that was a smiley face <font color="#ffcc33">=/ </font>I am used to <font color="#ff9933">!=<font color="#ffffff">, but</font> =/ <font color="#ffffff">is perfectly valid alsocheers!</font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by ganjookie on <span class=date_text>05-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:51 PM</span>

[MakhailSamma]

<DIV>Seems to me they are nothing but interupts already..</DIV>

[andurilh]

<DIV> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zigmund9 wrote:<BR> <P>Typical SOE,</P> <P>it's why I left EQ1 and SWG</P> <P>Was hoping that they would learn their lesson - player fun doesn't seem to be something SOE understands.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>It's exactly why we left SWG.  For a year you could see the melee classes being slowly swept under the rug even though it was being denied.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Look at what SWG has become, other than lame, it's become a ranged game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taunts don't seem to work as well all of a sudden and melee classes constantly lose abilities or their weapons just don't do what they did before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It would not suprise me if behind the scenes those that killed the melee artist in SWG are working on this game now.</DIV>

[ganjookie]

[ way off thread topic]SWG was always ranged, my wookie fencer always had issues in PvP<div></div>

[TheSummoned]

I remember a quote from the SWG boards from someone describing the pre CU PvP: <hr size="2" width="100%">SWG PvP is a bunch of idiots running around screaming at eachother. That was Warcry. Warcry 2 was even more powerful, is why a common template would be MBrawler, TKM, MF and swordsman and pikeman defense lines. Pre CU, you couldn't go wrong with a pistoleer/fencer combo, since both used dodge as defense and both had stun damage weapons. <div></div>

[Rostam]

Monks get fear in LU24. Just delete me now. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=53807 Too upset to take the 5 seconds required to make that into a clicky. <div></div>

[Gungo]

<P>The worse not that they gave monks fear but they placed fear and mezz on same recast timer. So really no point in ever using fear shorter duration and more liekly to bring adds or break.</P> <P>they also reduced all our stuns by1/2, turned sucker punch into a daze instead of stun (inho daze better then stifle though), and did something to eagle strike w root</P>

[Danter]

<DIV>I have nothing against Monks, but I can't understand for the life of me why they remain untouched and Bruisers keep getting nerfed when Monks out damage Bruisers, have an AA line built for them (STR) and have more raid utility.  Bruiser's offensive stance still sucks (parsing in at 3-6% on raids), we can't pull nearly as well as Monks (no Tsunami), and now Monks will have some kind of crowd control when soloing.  Is there anything a Bruiser can do better than a Monk now? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This fear and mez sharing sucks.  I never used fear anyway, but it was nice to have it as a viable option when a DoT accidentally broke mez.  When this goes live, I don't think a Bruiser will ever use fear again and why are they giving this to Monks?  Is a Monk going to fear a mob from its quiet, calm, tranquil nature?  It doesn't make sense at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kidney Punch is now a daze?  It wasn't bad enough that we were going to lose a total of 5s of stuns, but with this change it's now 7.5s of stuns.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm surprised they didn't nerf our tanking ability for the full trifecta but they probably figured we suck at it anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Kald, 70 Bruiser Permafrost</DIV>

[KeandraD]

<div><blockquote><hr></blockquote><blockquote><div>Is there anything a Bruiser can do better than a Monk now? </div><hr></blockquote>We rock? Need I say more?</div>

[Thail]

Can a Bruiser at least get a reach around? Seriously. I when this game first came out I would look forward to updates. Hey, maybe they spell was fixed or maybe they added mit or a proc to something I have. Instead time after time after time it is some form of nerf. Right now we are a powerful and fun class to play. We are not over powered. I have seen plenty of Bruiser not be able to do the things I can. It's cause I work hard at making this character good.  A lot of is is also based on skill. If another class magicly turned into Bruiser over night they wouldn't be able to solo for crap. I have seen necro's and Conj's blow through mobs faster then I can bye far. Does that mean they deserve a nerf? Hell no!<div></div>

[TheSummoned]

If Intimidate line is turned from 30 second recast to 1 min second recast it will completly change my soloing tactics. I don't think I'll even be able to solo some mobs that I solo with ease atm. <div></div>

[Gobbwin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have nothing against Monks, but<FONT color=#ffff00> I can't understand for the life of me why they remain untouched and Bruisers keep getting nerfed</FONT> when Monks out damage Bruisers, have an AA line built for them (STR) and have more raid utility.  Bruiser's offensive stance still sucks (parsing in at 3-6% on raids), we can't pull nearly as well as Monks (no Tsunami), and now Monks will have some kind of crowd control when soloing.  Is there anything a Bruiser can do better than a Monk now? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This fear and mez sharing sucks.  I never used fear anyway, but it was nice to have it as a viable option when a DoT accidentally broke mez.  When this goes live, I don't think a Bruiser will ever use fear again and why are they giving this to Monks?  Is a Monk going to fear a mob from its quiet, calm, tranquil nature?  It doesn't make sense at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kidney Punch is now a daze?  It wasn't bad enough that we were going to lose a total of 5s of stuns, but with this change it's now 7.5s of stuns.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm surprised they didn't nerf our tanking ability for the full trifecta but they probably figured we suck at it anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Kald, 70 Bruiser Permafrost</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>While I never want to see any class get nerfed, this is a very valid point.  We got hit by the proc changes, the AAs are more inline with monks than bruisers, now all of our stuns have been reduced, they move both of our CC spells to the same timer and now we even share one of our CC spells?!?  I know that I missed a few in there and I also know that they got hit by a few things too, but not nearly as much as we have.  Whats worse, there isn't really a light at the end of the tunnel, virtually all of the past few LUs have brought nerfs to our class in one way or another.  While many were small, over time that adds up to quite a bit.  SOE stop da bruiser hate!<BR></P>

[QQ-Fatman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSummoned wrote:<BR>If Intimidate line is turned from 30 second recast to 1 min second recast it will completly change my soloing tactics. I don't think I'll even be able to solo some mobs that I solo with ease atm.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I just checked it on test, the recast is still 30sec.<BR>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>ganjookie wrote:[ way off thread topic]SWG was always ranged, my wookie fencer always had issues in PvP<div></div><hr></blockquote>Master TKM / Master Swordsman FTW ! .. i used to LOVE going to the labs, buggin a spawn and puttin on my AFK AE Looting macro and goin to watch TV.</div>

[ganjookie]

<div><blockquote><hr>Thail wrote:Can a Bruiser at least get a reach around? Seriously. I when this game first came out I would look forward to updates. Hey, maybe they spell was fixed or maybe they added mit or a proc to something I have. Instead time after time after time it is some form of nerf. Right now we are a powerful and fun class to play. We are not over powered. I have seen plenty of Bruiser not be able to do the things I can. It's cause I work hard at making this character good.  A lot of is is also based on skill. If another class magicly turned into Bruiser over night they wouldn't be able to solo for crap. I have seen necro's and Conj's blow through mobs faster then I can bye far. Does that mean they deserve a nerf? Hell no!<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#3399ff">Yeah I can feel SOE tightening our bonds.  I'm getting pretty tired of it.  Instead of adding to classes they take from us and take and take..oh wait they do add to other classes, like monks getting one of our CA's!</font><font color="#3399ff"></font><font color="#3399ff"></font><font color="#3399ff">I guess they are mad at dev Bruisers always winning the duels on the inhouse testing server, and are trying to compensate.</font><font color="#3399ff"></font><font color="#3399ff"></font><font color="#3399ff">AT least give us a freaking hat that its in our own particular <font color="#00ccff">idiom* </font>and doesnt bite the style of another class.</font><font color="#3399ff"></font><font color="#3399ff"></font><font color="#3399ff"></font><font size="2"><i><font color="#00ccff"></font><font color="#00ccff"></font><font color="#00ccff">* A style of artistic expression characteristic of a particular individual, school, period, or medium: the idiom of the French impressionists; the punk rock idiom.</font><font color="#00ccff"></font><font color="#00ccff"></font><font color="#00ccff">Thanks to Monty Python and the Holy Grail (Lancelot particlarly) for this word</font></i></font></div>

[Quicksilver74]

<DIV>Maybe these nerfs are coming because Bruiser AA's in the next expansion are going to be awesome?!?   I hope so.   I had better not see an AA that increases our 2.5 second stuns to last 4 seconds, or an AA that makes Engulf work correctly....   or an AA that makes our T7 FD work the way it did pre-nerf,    they had better be good AA's.   </DIV>

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>Quicksilver74 wrote:<div>Maybe these nerfs are coming because Bruiser AA's in the next expansion are going to be awesome?!?   I hope so.   I had better not see an AA that increases our 2.5 second stuns to last 4 seconds, or an AA that makes Engulf work correctly....   or an AA that makes our T7 FD work the way it did pre-nerf,    they had better be good AA's.   </div><hr></blockquote>Lol that the way SOE's nerfs work thou. They nerf you so you cna feel weak. Then they give you stuff they want you to view as uber. In the end you just revert back to your pre-nerf state. Its a plot!<div></div>

[Gobbwin]

Well look at it this way, they don't have to come up with new content that way.  Further if you're always relearning your class, "it will keep you in the game longer".  /shrug

[Radigazt]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have nothing against Monks, but I can't understand for the life of me why they remain untouched and Bruisers keep getting nerfed when Monks out damage Bruisers, have an AA line built for them (STR) and have more raid utility.  Bruiser's offensive stance still sucks (parsing in at 3-6% on raids), we can't pull nearly as well as Monks (no Tsunami), and now Monks will have some kind of crowd control when soloing.  Is there anything a Bruiser can do better than a Monk now? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This fear and mez sharing sucks.  I never used fear anyway, but it was nice to have it as a viable option when a DoT accidentally broke mez.  When this goes live, I don't think a Bruiser will ever use fear again and why are they giving this to Monks?  Is a Monk going to fear a mob from its quiet, calm, tranquil nature?  It doesn't make sense at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kidney Punch is now a daze?  It wasn't bad enough that we were going to lose a total of 5s of stuns, but with this change it's now 7.5s of stuns.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm surprised they didn't nerf our tanking ability for the full trifecta but they probably figured we suck at it anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Kald, 70 Bruiser Permafrost</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This boggles my mind.  I play on a PvP server and PvP is my main focus.  What The Heck!?!?!?!?  Monks are <EM>already</EM> better than Bruisers at PvP because they avoid everything.  They have way better survivability than a Bruiser, and with the Strength AA line, they do more freakin damage too!  All Bruisers had was their Proc, but SOE nerfed the bejeebeez out of that and then re-buffed the Ranger ... a far better PvP class than a Bruiser!  So now Monks can do the same or more damage and survive signifincantly better than Bruisers, and get a teleport spell (Mantis Leap) in their AA's, and get our fear/mez, and because they're both being placed on the same timer, it's virtually the same thing.  Now they're nerfing stuns accross the board.  How in the world can SOE rationalize this?  Monks are significantly better than Bruisers in PvP now, and are going to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Bruisers in PvP and in PvE too once LU24 goes live.  Where's the love?  Bruisers are becoming pure vanilla ... might as well change the name to Generic-Brand-Brawler-Without-Tsunami.  </P> <P>Seriously, in PvP Tsunami is by far the strongest power any Brawler gets, it's freakin phenomenal ... and Bruisers don't get it.  Sure, we get Close Mind, but that's not even needed in most PvP's, and it's on a long re-use timer.  Tsunami is unbelievably good and is the no-brainer opener in every Monk PvP.  I'd give away Close Mind to get Tsunami any day.  </P> <P>SOE, so when are you going to buff the Bruisers?  Surely you've got to realize that you took a strong PvP class and gutted it.  Now Bruisers are nothing more than a low mitigation, above-average avoidance, high hit point, low damage scout with no utility.  Bruisers are 3rd rate tanks without stuns, can't DPS since you nerfed our proc, can't do ranged, can't track, can't evac, can't snare.  All that Bruisers can do now is use their buff (Rumble) to steal aggro.  Heck, even Scouts get taunts.  I really don't see any reason for a team to take a Bruiser on a PvP server anymore.  Scouts do far more damage and come with a ton of utility, and in case SOE hasn't noticed, half the freakin server are Scouts, with Rangers being by far the most played class that actually PvP's.  At least Monk's can take a hit and act as a damage sponge/distraction with Tsunami.  Bruisers are becoming merely cannon-fodder.  </P> <P>I'm all for adjusting things until you achieve balance ... but surely you are keeping track of the exponential impact of all these nerfs to Bruisers, right?  I mean you did almost immediately re-buff Rangers, and now they're awesome ... again.  Please tell me you have some master plan to fix Bruisers and give them viability again.  </P><p>Message Edited by Radigazt on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:49 AM</span>

[KeandraD]

mmm cheese<div></div>

[Quicksilver74]

Yeah they need to give us something back.  I am praying that the expansion does that for us. 

[QQ-Fatman]

I only hope they can change our offensive stance proc to something more useful - A self dps buff, or a proc that increase both haste and dps (like berserker,) or a proc that reduces target's mitigation (this can make us more useful in groups / raids.)

[TrentKillcu]

Maybe it's just me but I don't think I should have to buy expansions and get AA's to be in line with where I should be according to the vision of the class.  Nerfing us down then making us buy expansions and new AAs to get back our power would be ludicrious(sp).<div></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> QQFatman wrote:<BR> I only hope they can change our offensive stance proc to something more useful - A self dps buff, or a proc that increase both haste and dps (like berserker,) or a proc that reduces target's mitigation (this can make us more useful in groups / raids.)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Um no thansk i like the extra proc. I'll get myself haste and dps through other means. I do not want to be a cookie cutter class. As long as i am able to do appropriate Dps. i would rather have the proc. Why? becuase in the long run it allows me to do more DPS then a class who bases his DPS on his slef haste/ DPS. How? because i cna stil make use of haste DPS buff w/o worrying about arbitratry Caps. Caps suck and i am glad as a bruiser i do not not have to worry about them as much.

[QQ-Fatman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> QQFatman wrote:<BR> I only hope they can change our offensive stance proc to something more useful - A self dps buff, or a proc that increase both haste and dps (like berserker,) or a proc that reduces target's mitigation (this can make us more useful in groups / raids.)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Um no thansk i like the extra proc. I'll get myself haste and dps through other means. I do not want to be a cookie cutter class. As long as i am able to do appropriate Dps. i would rather have the proc. Why? becuase in the long run it allows me to do more DPS then a class who bases his DPS on his slef haste/ DPS. How? because i cna stil make use of haste DPS buff w/o worrying about arbitratry Caps. Caps suck and i am glad as a bruiser i do not not have to worry about them as much.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Ok... how about a better proc? Currently the proc dmg is so low - it's about 3% of my dps, while monks' offensive stance gives them about 15% more dps. How about giving the proc a short duration debuff that reduces target's mitigation? or something that will be comparable to a 15% total dps increasement?<BR>

[Gungo]

Any of thoe ideas are fine but i doubt we will ever see an increase to our dps.

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>TrentKillcult wrote:Maybe it's just me but I don't think I should have to buy expansions and get AA's to be in line with where I should be according to the vision of the class.  Nerfing us down then making us buy expansions and new AAs to get back our power would be ludicrious(sp).<div></div><hr></blockquote>Its just you. AAs aren't like eq1. They aren't required to do anything but do give a little help. In eq1 they were pretty overpowered. In eq2 they are just an added extra. This game is a business. Not everyone is level 60+ to take advantage of KoS zones so AAs are a great way to appeal to the alt freaks who have many lowbies and love to quest but don't have a 60+ toon. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it. Your not gonna get denied a group due to AAs or anyhting.<div></div>

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div></div>Any of thoe ideas are fine but i doubt we will ever see an increase to our dps.<hr></blockquote>/agree, when it boils down to it we do approx T2 DPS. Thats good enough IMHO. I only know 1 monk and i usually out damage him by small amounts. If monks in general outdamage us i bet its by little amounts so eh whatever. If we get a off stance boost we'll just have more people complaining about how much dps we are doing and get nerfed somewhere to make up for it. <div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>You know, I honestly am happy with how much DPS we do... what I don't like seeing (besides the general nerfage they seem to be stuck on) is the reliability of some of our abilities.</P> <P>The problem is that when they changed procing to mainhand only, they didn't tweak ANYTHING with our procs. So unless they felt that our procs were overpowered (riiiiight), then they need to tweak them.</P> <P> </P> <P>We are the ultimate in streakiness. Really, when I picture the sum of our abilities, I picture my cat scooting it [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] across the floor. STREAKY.</P> <P>We have two of our three stances with procs, and an additional tanking ability (one of the 3 non-emergency taunt abilities we get) that relies on proc'ing as well. These procs are based on BIG hits with LOWER chance of landing. Streaky Factor: You can go whole fights without seeing a single Engulf, and Taunts rely on occuring with frequency over periods of time, because you have to keep up with the CONSTANT aggro everyone else is making.</P> <P>We have a bunch of combat arts that have huge damage ranges! Yeah the average is ~800... but we can hit as low as 300 on that hit as well. Yeah it's nice to land a big 1300 hit once in a while... but when the recast timer is a minute, you could easily go through the entire fight landing only two hits with that ability, and you have just as much chance for their combined damage being less than the average of what one hit should be.<BR>I've been told I have DPS so I can keep aggro and kill mobs faster... hence my suckier tanking. Well... streaky factor here is that I can still do mediocre damage on multiple abilities on a fight... then BAM, i've lost aggro, or the fight took too long and I take one hit too many.</P> <P>Do I even need to mention avoidance tanking?</P> <P> </P> <P>Honestly... what I'd like to see is for our Engulf to have it's damage REDUCED (yeah, that's right! your heard me!) but the proc chance INCREASED.</P> <P>That would mean we'd proc more in a fight, for lower damage per hit. I know we are supposed to be these "slower, but bigger" types... but we are supposed to hit AT LEAST ONCE in a fight aren't we? Make my engulf 150-200 damage with a 33% chance to proc, and I'd be happier.</P> <P>And especially our Roughhousing... a 200 threat 50% of the time (or hey, even a 100 threat per hit!) would give a nice boost to holding aggro that didn't require draining my power in combat arts.</P> <P>I could live with streaky Arts and Avoidance if we got our procs more in line (or made every hit in the case of roughhousing).</P> <P> </P> <P>I just hate doing well, doing well, doing well, then BAM... can't hold aggro, out DPS'd by a bard, and get dropped from full health in 5 seconds because three big hits got through back to back.</P>