Cannot use CA while chasing enemy in PVP? BUG or LAG?

[Elephant]

<DIV>For some reason, the game engine seem to require me to be not just close to the target, but to be a little "in front" of my target for any CA to work, <U>in case when target is running away from me</U> (which is usually the case lol). This is impossible to achieve as they tend to change directions very often when I am starting to get in front.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the other hand, auto-attack is working fine when chasing the enemy. So, I am unable to use any CA on the running away target, with auto-attack working fine at the same time. This is really wierd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is it bug, or by design?</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Edit: Made the problem description clearer based on the discussion</SPAN></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Elephanton on <SPAN class=date_text>06-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:43 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Elephanton on <span class=date_text>06-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:33 AM</span>

[saubertounito]

<DIV>Basicly it comes down to lag/game design. You have to often run PAST your target to get off a CA. I generally use one that will knockdown the target in hopes of getting another CA off before they get up and you get TARGET IS TOO FAR AWAY!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its funny how a caster can "miss" their spells, but a melee can "miss" their target. (take that back there have been instances where casters couldnt cast even though they has los.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However its much more detrimental to melees. If they would widen the melee box a bit more things would be fine. </DIV>

[Elephant]

<DIV>I am sorry, but how this can be lag issue if I auto attack keeps working?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No, in my opinion the reason is definitely somewhere in the game mechanics, I just don't understand if it is a bug or feature.</DIV> <DIV>That is why I was wondering if anyone from development could comment on that.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Elephanton on <span class=date_text>06-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:55 AM</span>

[AaronSnow]

<P>There is now way that this is lag. In PVE, there is no problem.</P> <P>I really think this issue should be addressed. Its hard enough for a bruiser to be able to take down runners, and this just adds to the problem.</P>

[saubertounito]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AaronSnow wrote:<BR> <P>There is now way that this is lag. In PVE, there is no problem.</P> <P>I really think this issue should be addressed. Its hard enough for a bruiser to be able to take down runners, and this just adds to the problem.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>PVE is a different story, for that content its the end user communicating with the host server, with pvp its one end user communicating with the server, which is communicating with the other end user which tends to cause the in game lag. </P> <P>if they widened the melee gap just a bit it would help a lot. i think now they have it widened for just auto attack as there have been plenty of times when I was hitting with my auto attack but couldnt get off a CA.</P>

[Durlinn]

Its not a lag issue, but lag does add to the problem. Its because you must be facing, sometimes flanking, for almost all of your CAs. Sucker Punch will help. Big hitter from behind. Forgot the level you get it at.

[Elephant]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Durlinn wrote:<BR> Its because you must be facing ... for almost all of your CAs.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Let me disagree with you here... none of my current Bruiser's CAs have any positioning requirements stated in the description. Unlike, again, my Assasin's CAs, which do have those requirements. Which means that for Bruiser, CAs should work from any direction. Would you agree?</P> <P>And actually this is exactly why I think this could be bug. All CAs are supposedly non-positional, but game mecanics require me to be a bit ahead of my target to hit it, for some reason?</P> <P>Also, a comment on PVE. It all works well on PVE cause mobs are never running away from you - in fact they are always facing you. Now, I am talking about PVP situations only. It could very well will be that SOE just did not test "PVP-runners" scenario with Bruiser, and are unaware about this problem.</P> <P>Is there any way to draw someone's attention to this thread from SOE side? Just to get a quick comment on that, is it a bug or feature?</P><p>Message Edited by Elephanton on <span class=date_text>04-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:17 PM</span>

[Durlinn]

Hehe, not saying its supposed to be this way, just that it is. The fact that weve had no response about it is a good indication that its not working properly.  /em jots down bug #1,237,845....

[Elephant]

<DIV>Come on PVPing Bruisers, what are you thoughts on this issue?</DIV>

[Elephant]

<P>I did some extra testing, and found out this only happens on the run. If my target stands still, I can land CA on it from any direction, behind, flanking etc. - all from considerable distance.</P> <P>But as soon as both my enemy and myself start running, the game requires me to completely catch-up and get a bit in front of my running target before it would allow my CAs to go off.</P> <P>:smileysad:</P>

[Zigmun]

<P>I would like a little bit more latitude in how our ca's work against runners - as other posters have said you have to actually pass the person by a bit to get the ca to fire... </P> <P>I can live with no snare (that would overpower us imo) but I would like better melee sync with runners.</P>

[silentpsycho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zigmund9 wrote:<BR> <P>I would like a little bit more latitude in how our ca's work against runners - as other posters have said you have to actually pass the person by a bit to get the ca to fire... </P> <P>I can live with no snare (that would overpower us imo) but I would like better melee sync with runners.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This happens in every chase I'm in on my bruiser.  In fact, I've had it where my bruiser passes the runner, turns around and starts running backwards - still no auto attack (wether I'm in front or behind the message spammed at me is "you are unable to see your target") or CA's (message is "target is out of range") - even though I'm right next to, and/or in front of the runner.  I don't ever have this problem on my assasin, but I suspect it's because I mostly use ranged CA's when dealing with runners.  I think there is definitely something wrong here.  Then again, I've used stun lots of time on runners with my assasin just fine too...

[TrentKillcu]

I have the same problems, I will be chasing behind someone and auto attack is going off.  All my CAs are lit up but when i hit them it says too far away.  Basically at that point I hit shocking fists or whatever and hope that extra damage is enough to take them down because unless i'm running faster than they are I will NOT be able to get a CA off because you need to get in front of them a little.-T45 Bruiser Nagafen<div></div>

[Pheeb]

Here we go and have yet to see some answer from SOE.... <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=16587" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=16587</a> <div></div>

[Elephant]

<DIV>OMG this thread above is like over 1 month old, and still no response from SOE. :smileysad:</DIV>

[GetSome]

Yeah this has been driving me crazy, and now alot of people know about this and use it to there advantage. I had a conjuror run around in circles while his pet was whacking on me so I feared his pet but i couldn't get 1 CA off on the conjuror would just run around in circles pet finally killed me 61 times it came up with target is to far away. Just stay on the move and your pretty safe against a bruiser, thats until hopefully they fix the problem. Splat you die now

[Velir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elephanton wrote:<BR> <DIV>Come on PVPing Bruisers, what are you thoughts on this issue?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Its a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but usually does not make to much of a difference.  I usually let them knock some of my hit points down before bursting/healing and buffing mit up, so they stick around.

[Elephant]

<P>Here's another topic, also talks about this problem in particular!</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.soe.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pvp&message.id=59312&jump=true#M59312" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.soe.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pvp&message.id=59312&jump=true#M59312</A></P>

[Giroro]

<DIV>If scout shooting arrows + CA backpeddling this will be the same as well. I got owned by blue swashbucklers because most of my auto attack and CAs displays "your target is too far" "you can not see your target" while they just shoot you freely with their arrows</DIV>

[Elephant]

<DIV>Is this problem just being ignored?</DIV> <DIV>It's been a few Live Updates since the initial post :smileysad:</DIV>

[Mentla]

Shouldn't have rolled on Team Easy. Fact. <div></div>

[CosmicAcidGu]

bruiser is the only melee class I played in pvp server and I was expecting this behaviour to be for all meleeing classes. It sure is funny that auto-attack hits but CAs don't where CAs usually have a bit bigger range than auto-attack. Finnster <div></div>

[Elephant]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> It sure is funny that auto-attack hits but CAs don't where CAs usually have a bit bigger range than auto-attack.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is excatly why I think it is bug, and not lag issue as some people stated above.</P> <P>If it was lag, auto-attack would not work either.</P>

[DreV]

<P>I have noticed this from day one as well.. I would like to Hear from Soe in regards to this Issue please.</P> <P> </P> <P>and to the guy who said team easy.. its more like team medium <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.. I get owned a lot still .. .. low level game here</P>

[Elephant]

Bumping up

[RPZip]

As a monk, the same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] happens to me too... it's a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], especially as Knockdowns don't even help that much anymore (if you're considered behind them, it just knocks them further away from you. >_&lt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />At least it's not TOO bad as a Monk, with the 5% in-combat run speed increase helping to catch most classes in an extended chase.<div></div>

[AaronSnow]

<DIV>Really wish they would fix this issue. Getting sick on ranger types that attack, then just back peddle the whole combat, not allowing my CA's to work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this is working as intended, then the system sucks.</DIV>

[Dracor]

This is most certainly a lag issue. You must be in front of the person you see on your screen because you are receiving where they were as a function of double your ping in the pastOne direction of your ping to get their location, the other to tell the server where you are and to try to hit them.Your Auto Attack continues to function because it has a larger range. You can test this on a chained mob (yes, you will need a wizard to assist you with this check). You can Auto Hit it from a distance you cannot use your Arts at.Finally, I have confirmed that when my connection is crappy, so is my ability to hit a running foe.Enjoy.<div></div>

[Elephant]

<DIV>In that case, shouldn't the CA range be increased on PVP servers and made equal to AutoAttack range?</DIV> <DIV>It does not make any sense why at any given moment the range could sufficient of AutoAttack hit, but not sufficient for CA hit.</DIV> <DIV>Both of them are melee arts, with CA just being special attack resulting in more damage.</DIV>

[Dracor]

The reason is balance and I think its fine. If I proffered any solution it would simply be to increase the range globally, but it would still mean that Auto would start hitting before CAs could.<div></div>

[RyanTSi]

<DIV>i havnt logged onto pvp in over a month now due to this problem its completly ruined the fun in pvp for playing a bruiser, every time i fight someone 1 on 1 and i start to win they run and no matter what im screwed, even if i manage to catch up to them i still cant hit them, its not fun at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dracor]

Then perhaps Bruiser isn't the class for you.Personally, I think it's fine. We were given a speed bonus for a reason, same with sprint.<div></div>

[RyanTSi]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dracorat wrote:<BR>Then perhaps Bruiser isn't the class for you.<BR><BR>Personally, I think it's fine. We were given a speed bonus for a reason, same with sprint.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>i dont know i think thats bs, the 5% run speed doesnt matter much when you have to run past the guy and guess which direction hes heading in order to hit him with a CA........the class should work like its supposed to imo</DIV>

[Elephant]

<DIV>I tell you, 5% speed increase is nothing in this case. Nobody run straight forward, as you assume... most people are changing directions constanly as soon as you start to catch up with them... and due to lag, just one direction change makes them pretty far away by the time you see that and turn the same direction... no, there's no way that 5% speed increase can address this issue.</DIV>

[Elephant]

<P>Funny to see different people (not just me) sending sticky request for this thread almost daily, and moderator removing this thread from there all the time. :smileymad:</P> <P>Can this thread remain sticky until we get some official response please?</P>

[Elephant]

<DIV>Up</DIV>

[CosmicAcidGu]

yes, please sticky until it's fixed. <div></div>

[Elephant]

Sent request for sticky