Tanking

[Tanne]

<div>I am a level 24 bruiser this is my first character in EQ2.  Up to level 20 I spent 95% of my time soloing and doing quest for gear and money.  For the last couple levels I have been doing the AQ quest in FG and have spent the majoirty of the time being the groups tank.  I have no problems holding agro on single mobs but occassionally if we have adds I will lose agro on the second and if we have 3-4 mobs on my group my AE taunt will not grab agro on the adds.</div><div> </div><div>I usually pull with single target taunt if there are two mobs together as they get close to me I will hit them with the AE taunt and this works fine most the time.  However if one peels off or we have a pop behind us I am unusure of the best way to handle it. </div><div> </div><div>I have wiped a few groups by not being able to handle the crowd and get all agro on me ( I am a longtime EQ1 player and realize some of the fault may lie with my equally inexperienced group members).  However, I have grouped with SK's a bit as main tanks and they never seem to lose agro.</div><div> </div><div>Any pointes on tactics or spell choices would be appreciated.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Zahl</div>

[PhozFa]

Your AE agro will always be weak but watch when you use your AE taunt and make sure they are all in range before you taunt. Using a AE attack early will also help. Then depending on the situation and how long i'll be fighting the mobs i'll switch and spread my single target taunt to other mobs in the encounter. WIS line of AAs gives some AE agro. As far as SKs yea their AE agro is better than yours but thier single target agro is about as strong as your AE.<div></div>

[Owa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tanner1 wrote:<div>I am a level 24 bruiser this is my first character in EQ2.  Up to level 20 I spent 95% of my time soloing and doing quest for gear and money.  For the last couple levels I have been doing the AQ quest in FG and have spent the majoirty of the time being the groups tank.  I have no problems holding agro on single mobs but occassionally if we have adds I will lose agro on the second and if we have 3-4 mobs on my group my AE taunt will not grab agro on the adds.</div><div> </div><div>I usually pull with single target taunt if there are two mobs together as they get close to me I will hit them with the AE taunt and this works fine most the time.  However if one peels off or we have a pop behind us I am unusure of the best way to handle it. </div><div> </div><div>I have wiped a few groups by not being able to handle the crowd and get all agro on me <font color="#ffff00">( I am a longtime EQ1 player and realize some of the fault may lie with my equally inexperienced group members)</font>.  However, I have grouped with SK's a bit as main tanks and they never seem to lose agro.</div><div> </div><div>Any pointes on tactics or spell choices would be appreciated.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Zahl</div><hr></blockquote><p><font size="4">The ability of tanks to hold aggro has been lessened somewhat since the game launched. Now it's important that ALL group members realise that keeping aggro on the tank is everyone's job. If there was ever a time  when you could just expect a taunt to hold aggro regardless of what anyone else did it is definitely gone now.</font></p><p><font size="4">Always make clear to your party that group aggro control is not the Bruiser's forte - and their best bet of staying alive is to only attack the target you or your main assist are attacking.</font></p><p><font size="4">Aside from the tips you already got, remember also that your self-heal can add to your aggro.</font></p><p><font size="4">Owain the British Bruiser -</font>'Fighting In Pub Car Parks Since 1987'</p>

[ganjookie]

<div></div>Using Knockdowns on Mobs will gain you great hate for tanking.  If you need to peel from a caster/healer KD and taunt are great.Get rare rocks for [adept 3] <i>stances and taunts</i> first, at least that is the route I went for adepts.<div></div><p>Message Edited by ganjookie on <span class="date_text">04-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:19 AM</span></p>

[wayfaerer]

<div></div>Holding AE aggro can be a challenge. It used to be a problem, but since I group with a fury ALL the time who insists on using his AEs I had to make the most of what AE aggro I can generate to try and keep the mobs off him. I adept 3 my AE taunt as soon as I can, this helps a lot. It's reuse is pretty fast meaning that fairly early in a fight I can have AE taunted twice. One trick that comes in handy is that the thundering fists line procs off your AE, so if you thundering fists then AE straight after, you'll hit each mob in the encounter with a proc from the thundering fists as well as the AE itself.My ritual for groups tends to be:1) Pull with single target taunt.2) AE taunt3) Thundering Fists4) AE5) Savage Blows6) AE tauntThis is pretty much always enough to keep an encounter on me. I don't often group with a warlock/wizard/conj/necro though who may be capable of AEing things off me. It's certainly good enough to keep healers safe.<div></div>

[Vorham]

<div></div>AE aggro gets a lot easier at 50 when you get Savage BlowsOther than that, need to be on your toes, tab/F8/manually switch targets if needed, fire off the low level bonecrusher AE, mez adds also if you can.... might help if you assign someone in your group to be the toon everyone assists so you can cycle thru group targets/adds without DPS switching targets also. If you pull a group of mobs with taunt watch for a resist message over head and switch to that mobGroups of mobs take attention for the brawler to keep aggro on... cant just stand there and spam group taunt and expect to keep aggro if youve got any type of AE dps in groupMy usual method on groups is pull with ranged attack/single taunt, pop group taunt when all in range, weenie AE (i save savage blows in case I need to get all the mobs attention on me ASAP... nothing sucks more than having adds that aren't part of encounter and savage blows is down... have to wait till 50 for savage blows though =/ )... then depending on what group make-up is (any warlocks in group? hehe) might hit tab/pop hundred hand slap line...  hit tab before it finishes casting, hit next mob, tab hit next mob, etc etc. Kinda situational, depends on group member classes and if they are notorious aggro stealersIf AE heavy group I usually just say to assist someone else, then I cycle targets like mad trying to keep aggro... even then sometimes I lose it<div></div><p>Message Edited by Vorham on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:27 AM</span></p>

[Creppie]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Vorham wrote:<div></div>AE aggro gets a lot easier at 50 when you get Savage BlowsOther than that, need to be on your toes, tab/F8/manually switch targets if needed, fire off the low level bonecrusher AE, mez adds also if you can.... might help if you assign someone in your group to be the toon everyone assists so you can cycle thru group targets/adds without DPS switching targets also. If you pull a group of mobs with taunt watch for a resist message over head and switch to that mobGroups of mobs take attention for the brawler to keep aggro on... cant just stand there and spam group taunt and expect to keep aggro if youve got any type of AE dps in groupMy usual method on groups is pull with ranged attack/single taunt, pop group taunt when all in range, weenie AE (i save savage blows in case I need to get all the mobs attention on me ASAP... nothing sucks more than having adds that aren't part of encounter and savage blows is down... have to wait till 50 for savage blows though =/ )... then depending on what group make-up is (any warlocks in group? hehe) might hit tab/pop hundred hand slap line...  hit tab before it finishes casting, hit next mob, tab hit next mob, etc etc. Kinda situational, depends on group member classes and if they are notorious aggro stealers<b><font color="#6666ff">If AE heavy group I usually just say to assist someone else, then I cycle targets like mad trying to keep aggro... even then sometimes I lose it</font></b><div></div><p>Message Edited by Vorham on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:27 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>What Vorham said <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span></div>

[ganjookie]

<div></div>PM <a href="../view_profile?user.id=143116" target="_blank"><span>Colossaltitan</span></a>! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[PhozFa]

<blockquote><hr>Vorham wrote:<div></div>AE aggro gets a lot easier at 50 when you get Savage Blows<hr></blockquote>I liked your post and i'm not saying this isn't true but don't wanna give a false impression. Savage Blows is a great CA. One that would of been nice to get earlier but it has a 1.5 minute (i think) recast time so in groups its usually something you can't use every fight. When it is up agro is alot easier. You can usually have it up every other fight so it isn't that big of a deal<div></div>

[Razorbak]

Bruiser/monks are not know for thier great group agro holding ability.  As a fighter class goes, they basically sacrific some abilities in return for a much higher DPS.  Out of the fighter classes, they have the highest damage output but lowest taunt and mitigation tanking while at the other extreme, guardians have the probably the best  taunt/buff/mitigation tanking ability.  Like the previous posters said, taunt soon and taunt often, and just remind group members that controlling thier damage output is just as important as your taunting to keep agro where it needs to be.

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanner1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am a level 24 bruiser this is my first character in EQ2.  Up to level 20 I spent 95% of my time soloing and doing quest for gear and money.  For the last couple levels I have been doing the AQ quest in FG and have spent the majoirty of the time being the groups tank.  I have no problems holding agro on single mobs but occassionally if we have adds I will lose agro on the second and if we have 3-4 mobs on my group my AE taunt will not grab agro on the adds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I usually pull with single target taunt if there are two mobs together as they get close to me I will hit them with the AE taunt and this works fine most the time.  However if one peels off or we have a pop behind us I am unusure of the best way to handle it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have wiped a few groups by not being able to handle the crowd and get all agro on me ( I am a longtime EQ1 player and realize some of the fault may lie with my equally inexperienced group members).  However, I have grouped with SK's a bit as main tanks and they never seem to lose agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any pointes on tactics or spell choices would be appreciated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Zahl</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Meh ! thats my name lol !!!!</P> <P><BR> </P>

[tupercent]

<P>The best advice for bruiser tanking I can give is to always hold back 2 stuns especially at the beginning of a group till you get a feal for it.  You can be the greatest bruiser ever and the fact is your going to lose agro on multiple mob encounters from time to time.   When you do lose agro simply target the mob (don't use tab this is the total n00b MA method) hit it with a stun and taunt.  This will grab the agro back 90+ percent of the time, then just return to the first mob.  As you level up most people figure out the whole brawler tanking thing and manage their aoe agro, but even lvl 60+ will run across a few people who need a death or two to remind them.</P> <P> </P> <P>Proh 70 Bruiser</P> <P>The Bazaar Server</P>

[PhozFa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Razorbak wrote:<div></div>Bruiser/monks are not know for thier great group agro holding ability.  As a fighter class goes, they basically sacrific some abilities in return for a much higher DPS.  Out of the fighter classes, they have the highest damage output but lowest taunt and mitigation tanking while at the other extreme, guardians have the probably the best  taunt/buff/mitigation tanking ability.  Like the previous posters said, taunt soon and taunt often, and just remind group members that controlling thier damage output is just as important as your taunting to keep agro where it needs to be.<hr></blockquote>you are correct when you say fighters sacrifice some things for others. We sacrifice AE agro for extreme single target agro. Ask a plate tank, most has some story about being upset over a brawler taking agro from them You are wrong when you say we have the have the lowest taunting ability. I don't think a CA needs to add hate to be a taunt. If i wanted to i can pull agro off a guardian whos taunting and trying (without using rescue) without using my "taunts". In fact excluding a monk you should be able to peel single targets off ANY fighting without your hate CAs except prolly a monk. I also<u><i> think</i></u> zerkers have a better agro ability than guards due to dps + warrior hate. I'd also like to stress and add to what the previous poster said about using tab to switch targets in a fight is for noobs. The reason why if you don't know is tab doesn't always give you the target you want. Your enemy is usually alot of other peoples enemies (yea they can /assist but does everyone really do it?). there is a possibility that you for a second switch to a mob out of the encounter, a dps class is getting ready to nuke, nukes the target hard and now you have another add plus that person just built up some good agro so it'll be hard to peel it off. <div></div><p>Message Edited by PhozFate on <span class=date_text>04-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:19 AM</span>

[Rrawl]

<P>Just a note, TAB has its uses and works far better then it used to... If you have an enemy targetted in an engaged multi-mob encounter, and press TAB before your current target dies, it will only cycle through others in the same encounter.</P> <P>However, if you're a keyboard kinda player, and don't want to mouse click to target, I find the 'target nearest enemy' (Default F<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> key to be far more useful. Just move close to the mob that's gotten away from you and hit this key, Viola'! fast, efficient, and no chance of getting on of the other players or a mob from another encounter this way.   The only drawback to this one is it WILL select harvesting nodes if you happen to be fighting where there are some on the ground.</P>

[Geakor]

<P>Better late than never. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>I have a 38 bruiser and I for just about every group. Keeping aggro is something I can do very well, if it's one mob! Groups know (or atleast find out quickly) even do what I do stress to them that they MUST ASSIST!! I like the healer I group with if someone does not assist me or is throwing out encounter hits after encounter hits he politly tells them, if you get aggro again I am not healing you (ok sometimes its not polite) Just make sure every time your encounter taunt comes up to use it by the time the first mob is dead you should obtained enough aggro on others that if someone does start wacking them they won't take over aggro, or that summoners pet won't steal it from you! </P> <P>Geiico - 38 Bruiser on Oasis LEGION OF DOOM</P> <P> </P>

[Elerri]

It's important to differenciate between a pull with (a) multiple mobs, but only one encounter - and a pull of (b) multiple mobs in multiple encounters.(a) Is usualy alot easier to handle. If you fight a heroic encounter with two ^^ mobs I found it most efficient to Taunt one mob on incoming, AE taunt and then -switch- to the other mobs to kill it first. The initial taunt on the first mob may help keeping the agro through the first wave of your group's AEs.If you fight an encounter consisting of 4 normal mobs, switching through them and keeping them at "about the same health level" seemed to be a good tactic - it also makes the use of AEs more effective for your groupmembers - however you will take a little more damage through the fight, as you will fight 4 mobs till the end (goal is that they die nearly at the same time or in quick order)If you fight a huge encounter with many small mobs - just let the casters nuke them twice and they are all dead anyway.(b) This one is a bit more tricky. Depending on how many encounters you pull it is usualy a good idea to taunt the first encounter (single/AE) and then switch to the untaunted one to kill it first. However during the fight you might have to toggle in between the encounters to throw in some more taunts. Your Stun/Mez and Fear abilties can help alot in those situations, especially if used early on, during the pull, to park and add a bit away from the group.Your 2nd AE attack Savage Blows will help greatly in keeping such situations under control, though it cannot be used every fight due to the rather lengthly recast (so alternate between single and multi mob pulls whenever possible).It also is helpful use your Gauge style attack (the one that debuffes combat skills of a single mob) on the encounter you plan to kill later, so the debuff is in effect for most of the fight, reducing the damage you (or others) take through it.After all this is said is comes down to experience, micromanaging and the will to improve.<p>Message Edited by Elerrina on <span class=date_text>04-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:24 AM</span>

[IntricateOne]

"Is usualy alot easier to handle. If you fight a heroic encounter with two ^^ mobs I found it most efficient to Taunt one mob on incoming, AE taunt and then -switch- to the other mobs to kill it first. The initial taunt on the first mob may help keeping the agro through the first wave of your group's AEs.If you fight an encounter consisting of 4 normal mobs, switching through them and keeping them at "about the same health level" seemed to be a good tactic - it also makes the use of AEs more effective for your groupmembers - however you will take a little more damage through the fight, as you will fight 4 mobs till the end (goal is that they die nearly at the same time or in quick order)If you fight a huge encounter with many small mobs - just let the casters nuke them twice and they are all dead anyway."You're not going to take a little more damage this way -- you're going to take a LOT more damage(*). You're also going to [Removed for Content] your scouts off by switching from target to target AND you're going to increase the chances of anybody casting a DOT getting aggro because they're still damaging a mob that you're not.If you're pulling two mobs, mez the first one and take the second one down. If you're pulling multiple mobs, use group taunts and AOEs to keep aggro.(*) "Take a lot more damage?", you say. Why, yes, I do. Let's reduce things down for simplicity and say that you're pulling four mobs, each of whom does 100dps. Additionally, your group can kill a single mob in 10 seconds.If you kill them one at a time, your total damage taken would be 4000 (100dps x 10 seconds x 4 mobs) + 3000 (100 dps x 10 seconds x 3 mobs) + 2000 (100 dps x 10 seconds x 2 mobs) + 1000 (100dps x 10 seconds x 1 mob): 10,000hps of damage.If you kill them by switching from target to target so that all mobs die at the same time, roughly, you'll take (100dps x 40 seconds x 4 mobs): 16,000hps of damage.------Xhaos K'ai70 BruiserThe Arcane OrderButcherblock

[Elerri]

Well, your example is somewhat flawed, due to the use of AE spells. The whole encounter gets damaged during the whole fight and in my experience you end up killing it quicker off than doing them one by one, as the DPS classes keep using their AEs in combination with their single target attacks, which many stop doing once 1-2 mobs are dead (which only happens at the very end of the fight when keeping the health level even) as the power to damage ratio usualy gets worse then than for the single target attacks. That way the group keeps reducing the "encounter's health pool" at the most efficient (for all but healer) and fastest speed possible, which is not the case if you kill the mobs ony by one.However I only very rarely have an issue with my healer droping to low mana in the groups I build, so if it's an issue with your normal/random group built you may want to prefer the for the DPS classes less mana effective, in my purely subjective opinion less quick one by one approach.

[IntricateOne]

For the number geeks in the game, myself included, it's unfortunate that there's not a test environment where we can put a set of characters up against a set of mobs and, in a controlled way, test these sorts of things.I suspect this would hinge heavily on whether the group was heavy with classes that had strong AOEs (Bezerkers, Warlocks, etc) or strong single-target damage (Wizards, etc). If I'm tanking, I usually throw out two of my three AOEs early on to build aggro, keeping the third in reserve in case I need it to grab the attention of adds --> of course, this depends highly on whether I think adds are likely. I'm a dps [Removed for Content] and I don't like holding back if I don't have to. My shorter cycle AOE isn't usually recharged until the fight is almost over or entirely over, so it makes very little difference whether I'm serially engaging targets or not. I don't know the recharge timers on other classes' AOEs so it's difficult to say how much of a factor this could, ultimately, be.--------------X

[ume]

<P>I use a combination of a few different Targeting keys to Fast Switch to mobs in an encounter.  I can Fast Switch, cast a combat art, then Fast Switch back to the original mob in less than a second.</P> <P>The technique to Fast Switch is very helpful.  I hit the Next Target key, which I have bound to my End key.  Then I cast a combat art.  Then hit next target again.  I do it really fast and can go from one target, cast a CA, then back to my original target in less than a second..  What's really helpful is that Next Target usually sticks to the encounter you're in.  With 3 or more mob, you can cycle through each mob every time you hit the key.  I often use fast switching to the off mob and single taunt then back to the main target.  Many times, my dps is enough to hold aggro on the first mob so taunting the off mob via fast switch builds plenty of aggro for when you switch the group to the off mob.</P> <P>If there is an add, I get real close to it, then use the Target Nearest key which I have bound to my Delete key.</P> <P>On a typical 2 mob pull, I will pull #1 with taunt then switch to #2 and group taunt, then leave #2 as target to be killed.  By the time I get the mobs back to the pull spot, the off mob has been single taunted and group taunted, and I use dps on the main target to build hate.  Many times I will switch target to #1, cast mez, then switch back to #2 in a half second.  Or you can switch target and single taunt the #1 mob, then back to the main target.  The single taunt and the group taunt is usually enough to hold aggro from the AEs.</P> <P>On 4 grouped mobs, I will single taunt pull, AE taunt, then AE attack all on the pull.</P> <P>Once I get back to the pull spot I will tab through the remaining mob and hit each one with a high damage attack, then keep my target on one and let the group kill it.  Between the ae taunt, ae attack, and the high damage attack on each mob, its usually enough to hold aggro.</P> <P>Getting good at fast switching on targets really helps me alot and I recommend every bruiser gets good at it.</P> <P>Of course, this requires everyone to use implied target through you.  Sometimes I will have to tell the group a few times to Target me at all times.  When they do that, my groups flow very smooth and we have a good time.  If they don't, I get real stressed out trying to peel constantly.  So communication is the key to happiness.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>