Viability of Weapon Choices.

[Carp]

Ok currently, I'm a level 34 bruiser on Nagafen. I've been doing alot of tradeskills and I have about 75gold to my name. This is more than enough to buy the best dual wield weapons or 2h weapons I can equip. I was curious of a couple things.#1 Can 2h be as good or better than dual wield? In the original after like level 45 I know 2h became the way monks went.#2 How would I judge a 2h compaired to 2 dual wield crush weapons? Combine the rating of both the dual wields and the 2h whichever is higher will do more dps?#3 What is considered too slow for a weapon choice?#4 Being on a pvp server I have no access to illusionists in groups, and I have no self haste buffs yet as a bruiser. Is my only option for haste advancement the FBSS HQ?#5 Also, I am currently wielding legendary items that are player crafted... Is that the best I can get? I've been all over trying to find quests with better gear and I really can't find much better.#6 Ok, this is starting to bug the hail out of me. I have been geting consistantly out dpsed by 2 zerkers in my guild, same with the brigand... I don't understand, am I not supose to be the best single target (DPS) in the game? I would assume rogues / mages are the best (FLD) in the game. I could even take necros being competitors to me in dps but I don't see why I'm loosing to mages and rogues by 1k-3k dmg per fight?That's all I can think of for now, thanx for any responses.<div></div>

[ganjookie]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Carpea wrote:Ok currently, I'm a level 34 bruiser on Nagafen. I've been doing alot of tradeskills and I have about 75gold to my name. This is more than enough to buy the best dual wield weapons or 2h weapons I can equip. I was curious of a couple things.#1 Can 2h be as good or better than dual wield? In the original after like level 45 I know 2h became the way monks went.<font color="#ff3300">I prefer duel cestus for the look and more stats, I think its personal prference, and your AA choices, that should effect this.</font>#2 How would I judge a 2h compaired to 2 dual wield crush weapons? Combine the rating of both the dual wields and the 2h whichever is higher will do more dps?<font color="#ff0000">Pretty much what I would do</font>#3 What is considered too slow for a weapon choice?<font color="#ff0000">I try and get around 1.2-1.8 dw weapons, anything more then that is "slow" for me</font>#4 Being on a pvp server I have no access to illusionists in groups, and I have no self haste buffs yet as a bruiser. Is my only option for haste advancement the FBSS HQ?<font color="#ff3300">For now, yes.  PvP Gear has some nice haste items</font>#5 Also, I am currently wielding legendary items that are player crafted... Is that the best I can get? I've been all over trying to find quests with better gear and I really can't find much better.<font color="#ff3300">Fabled from raids is better.  Legendary is pretty [Removed for Content] at that level considering most are in treasured gear.</font>#6 Ok, this is starting to bug the hail out of me. I have been geting consistantly out dpsed by 2 zerkers in my guild, same with the brigand... I don't understand, am I not supose to be the best single target (DPS) in the game? I would assume rogues / mages are the best (FLD) in the game. I could even take necros being competitors to me in dps but I don't see why I'm loosing to mages and rogues by 1k-3k dmg per fight?<font color="#ff3300"></font><font color="#ff3300">What are your CA skill levels at? I really don't know as I have exceeded dps over berks just about all the time</font>That's all I can think of for now, thanx for any responses.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ff3300">I like to color in red</font></span></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ganjookie wrote:<span><div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Carpea wrote:Ok currently, I'm a level 34 bruiser on Nagafen. I've been doing alot of tradeskills and I have about 75gold to my name. This is more than enough to buy the best dual wield weapons or 2h weapons I can equip. I was curious of a couple things.#1 Can 2h be as good or better than dual wield? In the original after like level 45 I know 2h became the way monks went.<font color="#ff3300">I prefer duel cestus for the look and more stats, I think its personal prference, and your AA choices, that should effect this.</font></p><font color="#ff3300"></font></blockquote><blockquote><font color="#ffff00">/Brusiers tend to DW more than 2 hander ,2hander is a better choice for monks cos they can haste making 2handers more effective.  I would recommend playing around with the str AA line its a good option to go for if you want dps </font><p>#2 How would I judge a 2h compaired to 2 dual wield crush weapons? Combine the rating of both the dual wields and the 2h whichever is higher will do more dps?<font color="#ff0000">Pretty much what I would do</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">/Same :smileywink:</font>#3 What is considered too slow for a weapon choice?<font color="#ff0000">I try and get around 1.2-1.8 dw weapons, anything more then that is "slow" for me</font></p><font color="#ff0000"></font></blockquote><blockquote><p><font color="#ffff00">/heh Same again dammit !! </font></p><font color="#ffff00"></font><p>#4 Being on a pvp server I have no access to illusionists in groups, and I have no self haste buffs yet as a bruiser. Is my only option for haste advancement the FBSS HQ?<font color="#ff3300">For now, yes.  PvP Gear has some nice haste items</font>#5 Also, I am currently wielding legendary items that are player crafted... Is that the best I can get? I've been all over trying to find quests with better gear and I really can't find much better.<font color="#ff3300">Fabled from raids is better.  Legendary is pretty [Removed for Content] at that level considering most are in treasured gear.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff33">/Aye legendary Player crafted FTW cant get better other than raids like gan siad.</font>#6 Ok, this is starting to bug the hail out of me. I have been geting consistantly out dpsed by 2 zerkers in my guild, same with the brigand... I don't understand, am I not supose to be the best single target (DPS) in the game? I would assume rogues / mages are the best (FLD) in the game. I could even take necros being competitors to me in dps but I don't see why I'm loosing to mages and rogues by 1k-3k dmg per fight?<font color="#ff3300"></font><font color="#ff3300">What are your CA skill levels at? I really don't know as I have exceeded dps over berks just about all the time</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">/You shouldnt be out dpsd by a zerker but mages and rogues are T1 dps so yea they are gonna do more damage .</font>That's all I can think of for now, thanx for any responses.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote><div><font color="#ff3300">I like to color in red</font></div><font color="#ffff00"></font></span></blockquote><blockquote><p><span><font color="#ffff00">/I like to color in Yellow <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</font></span><span></p><div></div></span><hr></blockquote>

[Gungo]

<div></div><div>For one you are a fighter you are suppose to do less over all dps then scouts and mages. On Single target dps we are comparble to some rogues and mages. But on a best case scenario they will outperform us (minus coercers who need serious love anyway). Zerkers do great aoe damage and decent single target dps. Although we should be out dpsing them on single targets. If you cant its mroe then likely a gear/buffs issue.</div><div> </div><div>1) 2 handers are comparable to dual wields, if you want to do mroe aoe dps and choose the wis line of aa's 2 hander is the way to go. If you liek dual wielding there is a few ways you can set yourself up w gear/aa's, and ther eis always unarmed if you dotn have access to legandary or better wpns but have the aa's. all are relatively equal just depend son what you have available</div><div> </div><div>2) basically yes but proc dam and % are not included in the dam rating so look at those as well.</div><div> </div><div>3) none unless you reach close to 100% haste in which case anythign below 1.6 would reach the haste cap of 0.8.</div><div> </div><div>4) haste well there is a few haste items fbss being the easiest to obtaint. then there is a few wpns that proc a haste. agi imbued rings proc a haste. bezerkers, furies give a haste proc. bards both give haste. Monks (good only) give haste.</div><div> </div><div>5) yes, lower lvl quests dont provide any wpns better then a rare imbued wpns (minus the heirophant crook heritage) and until you cna kill soem t5/t6 epics there is nothign better. T7 does however have decent quest/group dropped wpns.</div><div> </div><div>6) see above first paragraph</div>

[Carp]

Well, ok thanks. I think it's kinda pointless to be a bruiser then if we arn't tanks and arn't dps... We are kinda like the filler spot lol. Wish I made a wizard now I guess.Thanks for the help!<div></div>

[ganjookie]

<div></div>After that last post it would be best if you dropped your bruiser.We ARE Tanks. If you dont see that then you should play a finger wiggler or a scout<div></div><p>Message Edited by ganjookie on <span class="date_text">03-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:33 PM</span></p>

[Carp]

Well, I'm mearly trying to say. If your guild has a choice of a guardian or a bruiser as a MT for their raid? Who's going to get that spot?<div></div>

[ganjookie]

I play what I like if I cant MT a raid ohh well<div></div>

[Carp]

Well, you basicly told me not to play this character because I didn't consider us as good as guardians. Then when I confronted you with that you come back with well I play how I want? Whatever, glad you enjoy the class and it fits your playstyle.<div></div>

[PhozFa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Carpea wrote:Well, I'm mearly trying to say. If your guild has a choice of a guardian or a bruiser as a MT for their raid? Who's going to get that spot?<div></div><hr></blockquote>There are 4 diffrent aspects of the game now. Solo / Group / Raid / PvP. As for solo we do that better than any plate tank. Grouping, You should be able to tank any herioc encounter a guard can with similar gear. Now raiding, if your concearned about MTing or raid usefulness this may not be the best toon to play. We do bring a few things to the raid table but alot of other classes bring more. As far as PvP i don't play on a pvp server so bluntly i could care less what happens on ther but in 1 on 1 /duel i beat most classes fairly easily.   earlier you said "whats the point" (or something along those lines).  If you need to ask that question i don't think the class is right for you.</span><div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div></div><div></div><p>Raiding takes up a grand total of 5% of my gaming time. The rest of the time I'm either soloing, duoing, or grouping. Occasionally I duel.</p><p>Honestly, unless you ONLY log on your Bruiser to raid, then you are going to be as effective as every other tank for most of your playing time.No, guardians aren't better tanks. They are only better at raiding. Otherwise they are the same, or even sometimes less effective than Brawlers at everything else.</p><p>If you base your choice of tank solely on the most effective for the majority of raids (many tanks, including bruisers, can tank a lot of raids), then why even have the other 5 classes?</p><p> </p><p>As for your zerker situation... zerkers excel at doing AoE damage. If you pull a group of 3 or more, and the zerker is allowed to use all his AoEs (including blue ones), then he's going to out DPS you.However, on those single pull triple ups, you should be doing far more damage than him. It's like wizards vs warlocks.</p><p>Honestly... I feel the Bruiser is to tanks, like the Fury is to healers. When you need to eek out as much DPS as possible, then you slap a Bruiser in the tank spot, and a Fury in the healer spot. I've personally found that a Bruiser/Fury duo can tear through things faster than a Guardian/Templar/any DPS trio (experienced both, as a Bruiser in group 1, and a Warlock in group 2). And they can withstand far more than any non-healer duo.</p><p>Message Edited by Raidi Sovin'faile on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:44 AM</span></p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carpea wrote:Well, you basicly told me not to play this character because I didn't consider us as good as guardians. Then when I confronted you with that you come back with well I play how I want? Whatever, glad you enjoy the class and it fits your playstyle.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Woooh Dude , less of the hostility ... go f o ff and make a crap guardain then if thats what you want just leave the attitude behind.</p><p>What we are saying is that we dont tank Raids as good as Guardians and to be honest do you KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO BECOME A MAIN RAID TANK ?????? you aint just gonna be handed that position after a few months let me tell you.</p><p>We are better than Guardians in the following instances -</p><p>Xp Groups , we own plain and simple , we burn through mobs fast and effiecient , No Downtime , single target we own , multis we have to work a little.</p><p>Soloing - Best in game next to conj/necro for sure.... heal , FD , Stun , Fear</p><p>Dps - Guards have none we have ample, its the way we were designed</p><p> </p><p>And guardians are better at the following :-</p><p>RAID TANKING</p><p>SOME INSTANCES</p><p> </p><p>and thats it !!!! we are tanks , we are moderate dps</p><p> </p>

[Miracole]

<span><blockquote><hr>Carpea wrote:Well, ok thanks. I think it's kinda pointless to be a bruiser then if we arn't tanks and arn't dps... We are kinda like the filler spot lol. Wish I made a wizard now I guess.Thanks for the help!<div></div><hr></blockquote>being a bruiser is all about attitude.... and with that attitude... you should probably reroll...</span><div></div>

[Zigmun]

<div></div><div></div><p>"I don't understand, am I not supose to be the best single target (DPS) in the game?"</p><p>Carpea...</p><p>I don't think we understand... to read your comments - it seems as though you want a class that does everything.</p><p>You want to tank raids - yet you want to be the single best dps in the game?</p><p>For one we are not the best single target dps in the game - we are probably the best of the "Fighter Classes" with a Monk being equal or a close second. We are single burst damage - monks are sustained damage over time.</p><p>We are also not the best tank class. Go with either a guardian and beserker, guardians are more defensive, beserkers are more offensive (with aoe's)</p><p>Bruisers are great soloers, have alot of fun utility spells - and to me are more of a dungeon solo exploring class - who can FD when the crap hits the fan, mezz adds - we also fare well in pvp imo.</p><p>Judging from your posts and what it is that you say you want - I would say roll a Beserker.</p><p>You can MT to your heart's content do decent dps and aoe to keep multiple mob agro. Plus if you prove yourself worthy you may one day become a MT, but one word of warning - really top end raiding guilds - will not make you a MT if you don't chill out on your attitude.</p><p>Hope this post was helpful.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Zigmund9 on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:07 PM</span></p>

[Dart]

<div></div><p>Do you want to raid tank ?</p><p>Or do you want to be able to ...</p><p>Tank in groups, Tank named in instances, Mez, Fear, Mend, FD, Safe fall, DPS, One shot non arrow ups, Solo effectively, wear a rice bowl for a hat /cackle, and Raid tank on certain types of mobs that have nasty physical Barrages? </p><p>Coming from someone whgo played a guard for the first half of EQ2 life, Id say you give up a lot to be a guardian, yes they tank the ebst on high end named and will be the prefered MT for most guilds. But outside of that you are so reliant on others its not funny. So you give up a lot of utilitiy, DPS, soloability, survivability to play a guardian. But if youw ant to tank riads and thats your gial, then yes guardina is the class for you, as well as Zerkers and other plate tanks.</p><p>I find the Bruiser class a great class, perfect blend between my Warlock and Guardian.  I really enjoy the survivability aspect.</p>

[Bewts]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>1.6 / 0.8 Delay/Observed Delay is incorrect.  A guildmate of mine parses his 1.2 Delay at 0.6 Observed Delay at a 100% Haste Mod.<p><span class="time_text">The only thing to consider with 1.2 delays is that at 100% haste, with an Observed 0.6 Delay that Combat arts = a loss in DPS.</span></p><p><span class="time_text">That is why using a 2hb pays off once you reach 100% haste.  I saw a 4.0 delay 2hb drop the other night and if you pay attention, with a 4.0 / 2.0 delay you can split your swings with a combat art and I don't know about you, but my combat arts in a raid setting will land for over 1k damage.  Not to mention having a 4.0 delay weapon will increase your chances to proc whatever proc buffs you have by a significant amount considering that all procs work off a normalized 3.0 delay.</span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Bewts on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:22 PM</span></p>

[Owa]

<div></div><p><font size="4">Someone alluded to this already - AAs can make your weapon choices for you if you let 'em.</font></p><p><font size="4">For example, if you're on the STR AA then a macro can let you quickly equip and unequip a 2H so you can use your barefist CAs and swap back at will. For instance, I'd unequip, use the Pressure Point CA to debuff the mob against physical damage then equip my staff and cycle through my usual CAs. When the Pressure Point wears off, rinse and repeat. Attempting this sort of thing with DW is a lot more tricky. Of course once you get further into the STR lne you won't get the same benefits from switching back to using weapons - but for early on this is a useful technique.</font></p><p><font size="4">And obviously, if you're using the WIS AA then a 2H is essential. Conversely, using 2H if you want to use Baton Flurry would not be such a wise choice...</font></p><p><font size="4">(Aside from AAs though I personally prefer DW fist weapons - for the look and the extra stats.)</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">By the way, from what you wrote I get the feeling you should roll a Berserker. Not many Brawlers MT in raids - although we can do the easier ones with aplomb - and if raid tanking is what you want to do you'll find it easier with a plate tank. Not least because everyone else will be more prepared to give you a chance.</font></p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><p><font size="3">OTBBFIPCPS1987</font></p>

[WaachBack]

<div></div>I really try to stay with the fist weapons. It makes me feel more like a bruiser.:smileywink: