Attitude of Others Towards Monk/Brusiers as Tanks

[DarkMirrax]

<div>as previously mentioned just read a post in the swashbuckler section that typifed peoples attitude towards brawlers :smileymad:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div>Wildfury77 wrote:If you solo a lot, play in small (3-6) man groups I would suggest sword +shield with stamina line AA.I'm now on the +DPS (4th skill) and boy i'm loving it. The 50% DPS bonus offsets the loss of duel wield and the addition of extra hitpoints and a shield means that your swashie is MUCH tougher.....nearly "Tank tough" in defensive stance. Sure with the wisdom line u get 66% DPS (vs 50%) but you have an empty slot with no stat bonuses in that slot and more importantly no protection from a shield.Personally I have duel wield cobalt falchions when I'm in a group with an UBER tank.And Pristine imbued cobalt longsword + pristine imbued ironwood roundshield for soloing and <font color="#ff6600">"non-ideal groups". e.g. when i have to tank cos the fighter is say 4 lvls lower or.......a monk. (hehe)</font></div><div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div> </div><div>I mean a Swashie Tanking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</div>

[Tolil]

<div></div><p>Only thing we can do is educate people like this by showing them that we can tank very well.  I think this attitude just comes from ignorance - either from people who have never had a brawler tank for them, or from a brawler that has never tanked.</p><p>I've had it a few times where some scout thinks he can tank better than me, so I let him.  Then when I pull aggro off him (opps forgot to cancel my hate proc!) <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  and they start to see that we arent as bad as they thought.</p>

[Danter]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div> </div><div>I mean a Swashie Tanking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</div><hr></blockquote><p>If you go the shield line with your Scout, you can tank semi-well.  I don't see a problem with this, in fact I'm going the shield line with my Dirge (partially because the other lines suck) for the times I duo with my bros necro, when we have a tank who doesn't know what prox pulling is, or when we can't find a tank.</p><p>Think about it, we tank good and do semi-DPS.  I don't see a problem with Scouts doing good DPS and doing semi-tanking.</p><p>Remember, 360 parry and deflect is a huge advantage, so even if a Scout gets his avoidance to 60% and higher mitigation, they still can't out tank us.</p><p>-Kald, 70 Bruiser Permafrost</p>

[Tolil]

<div></div><div></div>You've missed the point mate.  I think what the OP is getting at, and certainly from my own experience is that Bruiser (and Monks) are seen as a poor choice of tank by alot of people.  When I play my brawler I would much rather see the scout behind the mob where he can do most damage whilst I tank it.  We do pretty good dps aswell, but it doesnt make sense to have a scout tanking if youve got a bruiser in your group. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Tolil on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:46 PM</span></p>

[Danter]

<div>If Scout A is level 70 and Brawler A is level 70 and the groups chooses to let the Scout to tank over the Brawler, then you should let your group wipe while you FD.  If someone actually thinks a Scout can out tank a brawler, then they're an idiot and there's no hope saving them.</div><div> </div><div>-Kald, 70 Bruiser Permafrost</div>

[runamonk]

Honestly I don't worry about it. I know which mobs and what levels I can safely handle.If the group would rather sit around and wait for a plate tank with me sitting there twiddling my thumbs, I'll leave the group and join another or simply solo while they sit around. Eventually they get bored and join me killing stuff and before they know it, we've been doing it for a while and all has been fine. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I've been pulled into several groups now to MT, mostly because of my level and because some people are finally figuring it out.Personally I don't like main tanking much, I would rather just do pure DPS, offtanking and crowd control.

[Maelwy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Danterus wrote:<div></div><blockquote> in fact I'm going the shield line with my Dirge (partially because the other lines suck) for the times I duo with my bros necro, when we have a tank who doesn't know what prox pulling is, or when we can't find a tank.</blockquote><hr></blockquote><p>Wow, Dirge aa's rock, especially the str and the int lines.  Seems the shield line is more designed for the soloist orthe pvp player.</p><p>But to the topic at hand, I love players who get an invite to my groups, and the first question is "who is MT, or are we getting a tank?"  For one, it tells me who NOT to invite in the future, and two, it lets me show them that bruisers are NOT just a midlevel dps class.  Then after thoroughly impressing them, I replace them with a more knowledgeable healer or dps...</p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Danterus wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div> </div><div>I mean a Swashie Tanking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</div><hr></blockquote><p>If you go the shield line with your Scout, you can tank semi-well.  I don't see a problem with this, in fact I'm going the shield line with my Dirge (partially because the other lines suck) for the times I duo with my bros necro, when we have a tank who doesn't know what prox pulling is, or when we can't find a tank.</p><p>Think about it, we tank good and do semi-DPS.  I don't see a problem with Scouts doing good DPS and doing semi-tanking.</p><p>Remember, 360 parry and deflect is a huge advantage, so even if a Scout gets his avoidance to 60% and higher mitigation, they still can't out tank us.</p><p>-Kald, 70 Bruiser Permafrost</p><hr></blockquote>Kald im not disputing that my friend i have gone down the tanking route with my swashie to made him more robust and yes it does work well for sure and it is an impressive AA line especially as we get the dps boost from using a 1hander and shield w/o suffereing from not equiping DW weaps .. Light tank i can do but keeping aggro is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ! one taunt doesnt help even with the extra hate AA line its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard work ... like the guys said id rather have me scouts behind the mob where they can [Removed for Content] the mob to hell while i dance around parrying like a lunatic :smileyvery-happy:

[familyguyfan95]

<div></div><p>You learn how good a player is not based on only his class skills but the knowledge of other class skills also.  In fact most ppl do not want brawlers tanking at all.  It is there choice to have it their way or the highway so you can go on with them or leave.  As a bruiser I dont really care either way...i like what that guy said by letting the scout tank and fding and saying bye. </p><p>For the most part we cannot take an outright shot like the plate mobs and this is something that we have learned over time that will always be implimented.  But there are situations when we shine....such as close mind and our anti stun. </p><p>Will we be raid tanks....Not likely......Are we tanks who can get the job done...Sure.....Will ppl still favor the plate tanks..Yes....Should we care...NO! </p><p>A brawler who knows how to use their ablities 100% is welcome in any group that arent morons.  And at the very miminum....At least you will live after the wipe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Falwen]

<div></div><div>I agree, the attitude that Bruisers can't be tanks is pretty infuriating. </div><div> </div><div>I was recently in a group with a plate tank, a brigand, a healer and a couple others.  The whole time, the brig kept asking for parses to be listed, to show off what sick damage he was doing compared to the rest of the group.  When the plate tank left, he announced that HE would tank. </div><div> </div><div>After staring at my computer for a moment in stunned silence, I asked if there was a reason he would want to tank, rather than me... the fighter.  He replied, "lol.. .do you actually think you can hold agro off of me?"  I didn't even know what to say... </div><div> </div><div>Of course I was mad at the obvious insult to myself and our class, without even giving me the benefit of the doubt.  But also, the truth is I often group with a guardian, so I don't tank really often, and have never tanked with a brigand in the group - so I suppose there is the possiblity it would be a bit of a struggle.  I have tanked, and tanked QUITE well, but I have to be honest and admit his comment alone made me a bit nervous.  I felt that he would fight to steel agro, just to prove his point... and the first time I lost it he'd further insult my class, and end up tanking anyway.   I wished him luck, disbanded, and found a better group.</div><div> </div><div>But just the idea that rather than give the "tank" a chance, he'd rather give up most of his DPS he was so proud of just stunned me.  I guess I didn't realize how ignorant so many of these people are.</div><div> </div><div>Rainyn - 57 bruiser</div>

[MakhailSamma]

<div>So, let him tank, you pull the agro, when the healers realize healing you is easier, then you tank and show his punk [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up.</div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><div>Brigand wouldnt peel aggro off you , T2 DPS at best :smileywink:</div><div> </div><div>Hell if we can hold assassins , rangers and  for the most part Wizzie ([Removed for Content] hate comet) going all out then a [Removed for Content] brigand we could tank on auto attack with no taunting lol</div><div> </div><div>You should have just stayed and proved him wrong , make him look an [Removed for Content] and eventually get the "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fine grouping , Awesome XP best ive had for a while" pop up in the Group Chat heheh</div><div> </div><div>Ohh and I Raid MT my first EPIC's today , ok it was only drayek , drath and mentored down for SOTL but still I was impressed (please dont knock my confidence im not uber like most of u :smileywink<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[runamonk]

I would have let him tank to his hearts content as well. It would have been funny watching him get his butt kicked. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[mrstork]

If anyone ever makes mention of my tanking ability in a group I just pull 3 or 4 ^^^ mobs. Usually shuts em up. Did take a while before guildys took me seriously as Im the only brawler, but after a plate tank went down on a named lvl 67 ^^^ epic x2, and I took over tanking (at lvl 63) and pulled it off I get asked to tank for groups all the time. Im always happy when a plate tank tanks for me though since I can annoy all the dps classes and out dps them <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[Greavous]

<div></div><div><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">Ok here goes.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff" size="3" face="Times New Roman"></font></span> </p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">Being a MT is as much about attitude and confidence as class.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">I know some very well equipped Guards who cant MT to save themselves. I know some fabled out Zerka’s that cant hold agro for 10 seconds.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">I MT a lot of our raids but mostly I OT to our Guard because that is the best combo in the game I believe. </font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">When it comes to xp groups, everyone wants to group with me because we rip through mobs like butter, I deal crazy damage, never lose agro on a single mob encounter and all the dps can go crazy with ice comets and the works because they know the mob is more [Removed for Content] off with me handing out the head butts.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff" size="3" face="Times New Roman"></font></span> </p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">Guys, a MT is all about attitude. It is not the right of a class to be MT. that position is taken by the one who has the MT attitude. The amount of times we have had a Guard in group that moves to OT I would hate to count. While he’s getting he’s buffs sorted and looking around for a mob to engage I’m handing out the bash.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">If the Guard is a good one I will automatically shift to OT but its not the right of a Guard. It’s the right of a good player.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff" size="3" face="Times New Roman"></font></span> </p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">If you truly want to MT then don’t start by questioning your ability to do so or you might as well go trade skill.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">You’re a Bruiser. A bruiser doesn’t take a bloody Swashy getting in his ear and questioning his tanking ability. </font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">A Bruiser says sit down boy and watch how its done.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">Action is what people want. Seems like there is a lot of talk around but not many that will back it up.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff" size="3" face="Times New Roman"></font></span> </p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">I love the glory of being a Bruiser</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">We solo sweetly</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">We tank mightily</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">And we make the best lovers.</font></font></font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff" size="3" face="Times New Roman"></font></span> </p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">Flame away</font></font></font></span></p></div>

[neon_24]

<div></div><div>The only class i get grief from about tanking is the Inq in my guild but that is only because he cannot hit zealoutry sit back and let his reactives do the work for him.</div><div> </div><div>But agree with you 100% Greavous just don't forget to slap the assassins around and tell them to get more beer.</div><div> </div><div>___________________________</div><div> </div><div>Lothous 70 Bruiser Antonia Bayle.</div><p>Message Edited by neon_24 on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:06 PM</span></p>

[KeandraD]

I know the OP was about brawler/scout, but I just have something I have to say.When I started my zerker (at 54 now) I could never imagine someone would want a brawler tank. Plate all the way was the best IMO, and I loved beeing a zerker. I could hold aggro against almost everything, except perhaps Rangers with higher level than me (before the proc nerf). Never played that char grouped with a brawler tho (what I can remember anyway).At 54 I thought I would start a bruiser just for fun, so I did. I'm at 44 now and almost haven't played my zerker since I started my bruiser. I hold aggro against everything on solo encounters, group encounters is a bit more tricky. My duo partner started a fury the same time, and he says he'd have me tanking over any plate any day, I take considerably less damage than any of the plate tanks we've grouped with so far. And above all, bruiser is soooo fun to play <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyway, perhaps a bit OT, but thats how my thoughts evolved about brawler as tanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[JudyJudy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Greavous wrote:<div></div><div><p></p><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff"></font></font></font></span></p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">If the Guard is a good one I will automatically shift to OT but its not the right of a Guard. It’s the right of a good player.</font></font></font></span><p></p><hr></div></blockquote><p><em>This should be posted in the guardian forums and written in stone.</em></p><p><em>It is so true.</em></p><p><em>Better Player > Class mechanics in so many situations.</em></p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Greavous wrote:<div></div><div><p><span><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ffffff">And we make the best lovers.</font></font></font></span></p><p></p><hr></div></blockquote><p><em>Nope, sorry mate.  Monks take this title.  Your burst um... damage?... is um... so... short lived.  Monks have the juice to go all night long...  :smileywink:</em></p>

[WaachBack]

<div></div>I am so sick and tired of ignorant people saying we are not tanks...

[PhozFa]

<span><blockquote><hr>WaachBack wrote:<div></div>I am so sick and tired of ignorant people saying we are not tanks...<hr></blockquote>To those people who think we can't tank. I view them as people who really don't know whats going on. The bad part is thats a decent % of the people out there. But its the way it will always be. We wear leather. The only way we will get credit from the majority as a tank is if we were so grossly overpowered we'd get nerfed anyway. But atm i think we are great tanks with only 1 problem. Our AAs are way too offensive. I understand that we are offensive tanks but this is what offensive tank means to me. first we hold agro by doing damage. Second we help avoid hits with our stuns which are offensive CAs.</span><div></div>