bare fists can hit epic targets now :)

[Vrnogracan]

just read the patch notes and it seems that barefisted works nowjust too bad the proc is not there any more

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div>/Yup they do aswell <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> took some mid 50's to SOTL raid (GOT OWNED BTW THANK SOE FOR MAKING MOBS SO [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] HARD) and was hitting the golems , soon switched back to 2Hander but hey it does work at least :smileyvery-happy:

[Bewts]

<div></div>Been messing around with the STR line as a monk, double attack, 100% self haste 20% DPS and a STR ring with 26% DPS = big damage solo, let alone when im grouped with my inq dirge and coercer =)

[TheSummoned]

<span><blockquote><hr>Bewts wrote:<div></div>Been messing around with the STR line as a monk, double attack, 100% self haste 20% DPS and a STR ring with 26% DPS = big damage solo, let alone when im grouped with my inq dirge and coercer =)<hr></blockquote>Monks seem to benefit a lot more than brusiers from str line imo.</span><div></div>

[ShinmaRyche]

<blockquote><hr>TheSummoned wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Bewts wrote:<div></div>Been messing around with the STR line as a monk, double attack, 100% self haste 20% DPS and a STR ring with 26% DPS = big damage solo, let alone when im grouped with my inq dirge and coercer =)<hr></blockquote>Monks seem to benefit a lot more than brusiers from str line imo.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">Yep, they do, a good portion of our DPS comes from our stance procs, which were neutered. I cant imagine any bruiser going fists and STR line. </font>

[Dfoley3]

<div></div><p>Apparently you bruisers dont know how hard fists hit.  </p><p>Atm at lvl 63 im averaging 400 dps with 4 lvls of double atk.  It will be about 570 dps (from just auto atk and self buffs) at 8/8 double atk.   I dont think any other line promises that great of an increase in dps for brawlers.  Agi and parts of int come close, but 8 points into double atk, then 8 into crit melee easily is the top choice for a dps brawler, just need to give up weapons which is the only deturent.   You can even get 8 points into the inate proc so you have 100% double atk, 22% crit rate, and a 350 dmg proc.</p><p>Fists lvl up with you, they hit epics, have a 1.5 sec delay (same as most fist weapons) and have an avg hit of 450 at 70.  Fists arent as bad as most people think.  And the largest part of a bruisers dps isnt their fist proc, it was their larger dmg combat arts on short duration fights.  On a 4-5 min fight they start falling farther and farther behind the T1 dps.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<div></div>I'm spending my time with STA right now, as I like Mantis Bolt alot and the added delfection taht I'll get soon, which will help Knockout Combination be even more effective.  However, when the day comes that I get close to 50 AA's... I can totally see myself switching to the STR line... Depending on what Fabled weapons I happen to find.  As it stands right now I'd have way too much to loose.  Weapons provide more than just damage, they have great stats, and some higher end weapons even have defensive stats, such as the Ever Clenched Gauntlets, Draconian FIghting Baton, and the Uber weapon from Djinn Master.  Even good Old Sixta's Knuckles of Mastery have great stats for their Tier... .which cannot be ignored. 

[BrainMu]

<div></div>The difference is we don't have all of the haste buffs that monks have, we have a proc on our offensive stance that rarely goes off now after the change.

[Danter]

<div></div><div></div><div>I'm generally going all passive abilities like +deflection, +parry, +proc, +crit, etc.  My thinking is that I'd rather have something up all the time than some of time.</div><div> </div><div>I still don't understand why someone would go unarmed, although it'd probably be pretty cool to max out once you hit 70 for screw around reasons.  You're giving up tons of stats, especially with some of the new KoS weapons which add defensive stats, too.  You're also using a lot of AA points to equal the damage you're doing now.  I don't know, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my opinion.</div><div> </div><div>-Kald, 62 Bruiser Permafrost</div><p>Message Edited by Danterus on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:19 AM</span></p>

[Dfoley3]

<div></div><p>equal my dmg? try doubling it.</p><p>With 2 aa into double atk it was equal (350), with 4 im about 410 with all 8 into it ill be doing 547 dps self buffed with auto atk.  With dual weilders i had i was caping at 350ish self buffed - 660 in a raid.   Prolly be more at 70 since fists level up with you, ill post some parses in about 6 lvls and let you know.</p><p>Yeah its a lot of stats to give up but as a dps i dont need defense , hp  or most the other stats.</p><p> </p>

[Pheeb]

A bit off topic but am a new level 24 bruiser and I've been fighting barefisted with offensive stance (heated Fists master 1) lately - My attack goes up to 1051 - If I use some sticks (dual-wield) my attack goes down to 350 - what gives and what does this mean really? I seem to have higher dps when fighting barefisted...any feedback would be appreciated...oh and whether I use defensive versus offensive while fighting barefisted only change my attack from 1051 to 1024...Thanks in advance,<div></div>

[MakhailSamma]

<div><blockquote><hr>Quicksilver74 wrote:<div></div>I'm spending my time with STA right now, as I like Mantis Bolt alot and the added delfection taht I'll get soon, which will help Knockout Combination be even more effective.  However, when the day comes that I get close to 50 AA's... I can totally see myself switching to the STR line... Depending on what Fabled weapons I happen to find.  As it stands right now I'd have way too much to loose.  Weapons provide more than just damage, they have great stats, and some higher end weapons even have defensive stats, such as the Ever Clenched Gauntlets, Draconian FIghting Baton, and the Uber weapon from Djinn Master.  Even good Old Sixta's Knuckles of Mastery have great stats for their Tier... .which cannot be ignored. <hr></blockquote></div><div>I am going stamina as well...</div><div> </div><div>More stamina is always awesome considering I am good on Agility and strength.</div><div> </div><div>Lowering the mobs stamina by 100+ is awesome and gives us something to do from a distance occasionally (especially after they fix this skill on some mobs..though on T7 non named seems to help a great amount).</div><div> </div><div>Another 12%+ DMG proc is awesome. I play with a guardian who lays his 53% AA agro decreaser on me so I can through up Rumble as well. So, I proc off of stance, Rumble, weapon, Mantis, and my gear with offensive proc. Thats a ton of DPS and with this I am out DPSing most everyone I come across at 64 averaging 500+ DPS a fight against yellow ^^^.</div><div> </div><div>1.5 per AA deflection bonus ftw!!!</div><div> </div><div>Teleporting to the mob from a distance is more for flair.. depending on reuse timer I may or may not take the last one. Short timer+100% crit+kidney punch=one hell of a hard hit gaurenteed.</div><div> </div><div>just my thoughts on the subject</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Aaliel Stonefists]

<div></div>Crabbok mentioned to me today that fists are surprisingly good, so I tested them for a while, and they are indeed [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good, even with no points in the strength line.  For the most part I was only 150 DPS lower than using my Grizzfazzle staff, but the proc is broken right on it right now.  And like he said the problem is losing the stats from weapons.  That staff adds 50 str/sta and +5 crushing, which is just totally awesome.  Most of my jewelry is still kind of crap, and I don't really know what tier 7 fabled items look like, but if the stormcharge mantle is any indication of them, a fully decked out bruiser will already be way over the stat caps for str/agi and getting close to it in stamina, without stats on weapons, so they could switch to the strength AA line and use fists without losing anything but a small amount of +weapon skill/avoidance traits on their weapons.  I think in that situation fists will be really quite sick.  If we still had our unarmed proc it would be truly disgusting damage.  

[Vrnogracan]

could someone plz explain what Melee Crit means ??thanks

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div><div>a % chance to deal extra damage with a melee attack (or melee based combat art).you'll notice it have <font size="6">HUGE</font><font size="3"> numbers as opposed to the regular </font><font size="4">medium</font><font size="3"> size.for example...17 <font size="5">26</font>===========|                       ||                       ||                       |       <--- is a mob <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />|                       ||                       ||                       |===========17. Being the normal auto attack. (or melee attack).26. Being a critical auto attack. (or melee attack).</font></div><p>Message Edited by Colossaltitan on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:43 AM</span></p>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MakhailSammael wrote:<div>Lowering the mobs stamina by 100+<hr></div></blockquote>Yeah, now if only they would fix Stamina Debuffs!

[ShinmaRyche]

<div><blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:<div></div><div>a % chance to deal extra damage with a melee attack (or melee based combat art).you'll notice it have <font size="6">HUGE</font><font size="3"> numbers as opposed to the regular </font><font size="4">medium</font><font size="3"> size.for example...17 <font size="5">26</font>===========|                       ||                       ||                       |       <--- is a mob <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />|                       ||                       ||                       |===========17. Being the normal auto attack. (or melee attack).26. Being a critical auto attack. (or melee attack).</font></div><p>Message Edited by Colossaltitan on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:43 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">Hey... that mob reminds me of a gelatenous cube from old school RPGs... lol :smileytongue:</font></div>

[Maelwy]

<div>Yeah, i'm still hesitantto give up the stats that dw weapons give, as well  weapon procs.  Stamina chain, at least for my first 16 points seems the way to go.  At least for those of us bruisers who tank, rather than being relegated to tier 2 dps roles.  Might give em up if off tanking, but it'd depend on whether were grinding with 2 healers or one.</div>

[TheSummoned]

What I like about crits is that sometimes the mob will criticaly heal you for 1 point. A bug, but funny nontheless.<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>[Removed for Content]-

[ShadyShane]

<div></div><p>Have you guys noticed the attack rating increase when we go unarmed?</p><p> </p><p> I currently have the Crudgel of the Devout and Ever Clenched Gauntlet equipped on my bruiser and it really depresses me my attack rating goes up almost 250 when i go unarmed.........</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Oh well just curious if anyone else notice this ....But unarmed i can get my attack to 1700 pretty easy with a shammy in my group and even easier if a warden is there with primal instinct</p><p> </p><p>Abominoare 66 Kithicor Bruiser</p><p> </p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div>Bugged always has been and probably always will be :smileywink:

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div></div><p>It's definately bugged worse now than it was before. Back when our fists had extra proc's, I tried them out and I only noticed about a 50 point difference between my current weapons and unarmed. Now it's like 400 points difference.</p><p> </p><p>Also, I tried a little test to see how unarmed stacks up.</p><p>I fought the same thing twice, once with unarmed (at lvl 52), and once with t5 legendary imbued crafted (yeah, don't have t6 atm). I did only autoattack damage to see what kind of difference I'd be looking at.</p><p>Weapons gave me about 70 DPS, while unarmed gave me about 55 DPS.</p><p>Not a huge difference, but it's there... unarmed is still inferior, at base level.</p><p>I think mostly though, it was the factor of the Gleaming Strike procs. Even the stats weren't a huge loss in damage, but being able to get an extra proc, not just once.. but twice (offhand having it's own proc), pushed it up there.This was over 5 minute long fights btw... hence the low score.</p><p>So while unarmed isn't as bad anymore due to allowing it to hit Epics and all... it's still not the best option. Flavour-wise, the AAs would make it an option without losing "too much". Nice to get that 12% riposte/parry thing too.</p><p>However, if you are looking to "max it out", then using weapons and spending the extra 25 points someplace other than Strength line would probably net you more.</p><p>Like going Mantis Proc, AoE Proc (doesn't have a weapon requirement), and Melee Crit. So Sta 4/4/8, Wis 4/4/8, and Int 4/4/8. That'd be some massive proc'ing damage.</p>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>The attack rating bug when unarmed is a persona display bug.  It will be fixed in an upcoming hotfix.  (a dev responded to this issue on the monk forums).