The *first* step in the right direction towards AA improvement.

[Colossaltitan]

<span class="headline">Update Notes :<i> 2/23/2006 7:00 AM</i></span>*** Achievements ***- Brawler: Crane Flock no longer has a weapon requirement.<div>Although this is only one thing changed, it is a step in the right direction.  Just wanted to say Goodjob SOE, keep up the intelligent ideas.-Thanks</div>

[narcoleptic_l]

<blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:<span class="headline">Update Notes :<i> 2/23/2006 7:00 AM</i></span>*** Achievements ***- Brawler: Crane Flock no longer has a weapon requirement.<div>Although this is only one thing changed, it is a step in the right direction.  Just wanted to say Goodjob SOE, keep up the intelligent ideas.-Thanks</div><hr></blockquote><p>This is excellent news! I also noticed that Chi does not have a weapon requirement... although the rest of the STR line really blows. The neg effects only last one second as well.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Also I saved alot of money on car insurance by switching to Geico</p>

[Saev]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>narcoleptic_ltd wrote:<blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:<span class="headline">Update Notes :<i> 2/23/2006 7:00 AM</i></span>*** Achievements ***- Brawler: Crane Flock no longer has a weapon requirement.<div>Although this is only one thing changed, it is a step in the right direction.  Just wanted to say Goodjob SOE, keep up the intelligent ideas.-Thanks</div><hr></blockquote><p>This is excellent news! I also noticed that Chi does not have a weapon requirement... although the rest of the STR line really blows. <strong>The neg effects only last one second as well.</strong></p><hr></blockquote>The question is, is this really 1 second or is it the same display bug as stuns and snares currently have? I for one am not ready to spend all those AA points (which I don't have yet anyway) on useless bare-hand skills to find out.

[JudyJudy]

<div></div><div></div><em></em><blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:<span class="headline">Update Notes :<i> 2/23/2006 7:00 AM</i></span>*** Achievements ***- Brawler: Crane Flock no longer has a weapon requirement.<div>Although this is only one thing changed, it is a step in the right direction.  Just wanted to say Goodjob SOE, keep up the intelligent ideas.-Thanks</div><hr></blockquote><em>I have to agree with you, Phay.  This is definitely a step in the right direction and has reinforced my faith in the WIS tree.</em><p>Message Edited by JudyJudy on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:22 AM</span></p>

[Shackler]

<div></div><div>Our AA are another example of SOE not caring about brawlers. They gave us the STR line focussed on 'unarmed' fighting. Excuse me, unarmed ?? What brawler in his right mind would fight unarmed , and thereby give up a buttload of stats.</div><div>There is NO compensation for fighting unarmed and giving up this many stats. Your DPS will drop alot unarmed, you no longer dualwield and its so slow you could fall asleep.</div><div> </div><div>Unarmed fighting is TOTALLY underdeveloped, a good way to improve unarmed fighting is to make fistwraps count as unarmed which iirc isnt a weapon.</div><div> </div><div>Futhermore our INT line is equally crap, there are 2 abilities in it that are ok BUT, we are forced to put 4 AA into INT, excuse me, INT does NOTHING for brawlers and basically we have to waste 4 AA, thank you.</div><div> </div><div>Would be nice to get Moorguard kicked out of the window and have a developer that actually knows how the class works.</div><div> </div>

[narcoleptic_l]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Shackler wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div>Futhermore our INT line is equally crap, there are 2 abilities in it that are ok BUT, we are forced to put 4 AA into INT, excuse me, INT does NOTHING for brawlers and basically we have to waste 4 AA, thank you.</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>INT actually affects the amount of damage your procs will do, more int, higher damage.</p><p> </p><p>Unarmed fighting could stand a revamp to be more attractive, that I"ll agree with</p>

[Kuld]

<div></div>Seems like typical SOE intelligence though...how on Norrath are fistwraps considered anything but unarmed?  Say SOE did finally fix that, would need a few variations with it, otherwise EVERY brawler will be using them, essentially pigeonholing us into ONE weapon choice.

[Cornbread Muffin]

<div>I love the idea that I can spend tons of AA points to double attack while unarmed. uhh, isn't that just like using crappy DW weapons with no stats? I can do that with no AA points. Pure genius.</div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>Like I said, I'm not too impressed with AA's in general, *but* this is a step in the right direction.

[Owa]

<div></div><font size="4">I'd be interested to know if anyone at all picks the STR line.</font>

[ShinmaRyche]

<div></div><font color="#ffff00">STR line, yes. The Strength + to stat bonuses. Thats all. I have no reason to go any further than that.</font>

[Siberia2]

I'm taking the Str line, up to 4 ranks of pressure point and 8 ranks of double attack, just to mess around with. I don't tank often and the other AAs seem somewhat weak so imo I'm not wasting too much. My hope is that with Double attack and the Crit increase from the int line I'll be a damage monster, and the whole unarmed aspect, although I know it's horrible to go unarmed, is what I like to do.<div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div></div><p>Well if the unarmed is truly a "one handed" weapon.. it'll be higher Damage Rating than a normal duel wield weapon. So if you are double attacking a lot with a one handed weapon, it's doing more damage than two dual wield weapons.</p><p>However, that would be the case only if you double attacked 100% of attacks. And that doesn't count the loss of Stats and Procs.</p><p>Ultimately, it's an inferior choice. The line has some nice bonuses (always on 12% chance to riposte/parry, etc)... but when you can use weapons elsewhere and get even MORE bonuses, it's simply not worth having.</p><p> </p><p>The way the Strength line looks to me, is that it makes Unarmed fighting a viable choice for combat. The problem is, everyone else can just use weapons and get more abilities on top of that.</p>

[ShinmaRyche]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<div></div><p>The way the Strength line looks to me, is that it makes Unarmed fighting a viable choice for combat. The problem is, everyone else can just use weapons and get more abilities on top of that.</p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">EXACTLY. So if you want to go the cheap way (not buying weapons) you go the STR line, and you are made "viable". If you want to go that way, this line would be a way. The problem lies in the fact that a large percentage of Bruisers already have weapons, or will get them, effectively nullifying the STR line.</font>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div>Keeping All my AA points till someone at soe decides the final draft :smileyvery-happy:

[Owa]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>ShinmaRyche wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<div></div><p>The way the Strength line looks to me, is that it makes Unarmed fighting a viable choice for combat. The problem is, everyone else can just use weapons and get more abilities on top of that.</p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">EXACTLY. So if you want to go the cheap way (not buying weapons) you go the STR line, and you are made "viable". If you want to go that way, this line would be a way. The problem lies in the fact that a large percentage of Bruisers already have weapons, or will get them, effectively nullifying the STR line.</font><hr></blockquote><p><font size="4">Agreed. I mean, what high level character of ANY class do you know that doesn't use the best equipment they can afford? Who would get to lvl 60, say, and be prepared to fight less effectively in order to save cash? Money in EQ2 is primarily used to make your characters more potent - all spending on fancy furniture etc is just window dressing - and I suspect Bruisers as a species are even less likely than other classes to drop money on something aesthetically pleasing when there's a Knuckleduster of Immediate Hospitalisation+5 on the broker.</font></p><p><font size="4"></font> </p><p><font size="4">Owain the British Bruiser - </font><font size="2">"Fighting in Pub Car-Parks Since 1987"</font></p><p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:06 AM</span></p>

[ShinmaRyche]

<div></div><div><font color="#ffff00">From todays update notes:</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Achievements ***</font></strong>- Pressure Point is now a melee attack that breaks through the enemy's defense modes.</div><div> </div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Combat ***</font></strong>- Lower quality weapons and bare fists can now hit epic targets.</div>

[narcoleptic_l]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ShinmaRyche wrote:<div></div><div><font color="#ffff00">From todays update notes:</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Achievements ***</font></strong>- Pressure Point is now a melee attack that breaks through the enemy's defense modes.</div><div> </div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Combat ***</font></strong>- Lower quality weapons and bare fists can now hit epic targets.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Lots of work needed, but definately heading in the right direction here...</p><p> </p><p>I am hanging on to all my points for a while myself just to see where things go</p>

[Sslarrga]

<div></div><div>Don't usually post in the bruiser board, however...</div><div> </div><div>I've been screwing around with the Strength line as I posted in the monk forum.</div><div> </div><div>There's a few things that make it extremely attractive even if though I still plan on respecing to something.</div><div> </div><div>When unarmed and having ranks in double attack.</div><div> </div><div>1.  Procs will go off on the 2nd attack from double attack.  This already makes it superior to DW.  Using Dirge's CoB, you will proc it on EVERY attacking primary and secondary from double attack.  This also worked with Flametongue and other casted procs that I tested.</div><div> </div><div>2.  Ranged attacks also use the same double attack chance.  Procs again, also go off on the second attack from double attack.</div><div> </div><div>3.  Procs (both reactive and regular) also "appear" to have a chanc to double proc at the double attack percentage.</div><div> </div><div>Now, the scary part about even thinking of investing points in here is...</div><div> </div><div>Is the line working as intended or are those bugs?  If it is working as intended though you could gain some huge benefits from...</div><div> </div><div>So if you were do to 4-4-8 in Strength, Wisdom, and Int.</div><div> </div><div>You could have approximately...</div><div> </div><div>96% chance to double attack.  Basically think of it as dualwielding with the damage rating of a one handed weapon.  Except that you can a chance to proc on BOTH attacks.</div><div> </div><div>24% chance to proc piercing damage on every attack (including the double attack).</div><div> </div><div>22.4% chance to crit on every Proc, CA, autoattack, reactive proc, and Ranged attack (including the double attack).</div><div> </div><div>This would also mean forgoing any semblance of being an avoidance tank, and just going pure DPS.</div><div> </div><div>For a Monk this is maybe more attractive than for a Bruiser.  As this works wonderfully well with max haste.  It still feels slow, but not like molasses.</div><div> </div><div>Regards,</div><div>Croaker</div><div>Level 60 Ogre Monk, Deaths Door, blah blah blah blah too lazy to make a sig blah blah.</div><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:45 AM</span></p>

[Owa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sslarrga wrote:<div></div><div>Now, the scary part about even thinking of investing points in here is...</div><div> </div><div>Is the line working as intended or are those bugs?  If it is working as intended though you could gain some huge benefits from...</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p><font size="4">Who knows? The main problem for me (and I suspect I'm not alone) I that I'm not very good at doing the calculations required to figure out how these lines work. 'Proc' % here, 'crit' % there. What am I? At MIT? I couldn't do this kind of thing at school and I'm not paying $14 a month to start now.</font></p><p><font size="4">This is a game, remember, not a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing maths test, and I can't understand why SoE is keeping the whole AA thing so ineffable.</font></p><p><font size="4">Personally I'd like them to spell out for me which line gives the best DPS so I can get on with playing the bloody game - but as so often it's left to the players to explain half the stuff to each other. No doubt some clever soul (nerd) will do just that eventually and in the meantime I thank you for the work you're doing on behalf of your less intelligent brethren.</font></p><p><font size="4"></font> </p><p><font size="4">Owain the British Bruiser </font><font size="2">-'Fighting In Pub Car-Parks (And Not Being Any Good At Maths) Since 1987'</font></p>