Enough time has passed, can we please have our stun icons back?

[Danter]

<div>I'm not sure what the devs were trying to accomplish by removing the stun icons from our maintained window besides irratating a bunch of Bruisers.</div><div> </div><div>You can still chain stun by watching the icon on the creature's effect window, but it gets really annoying in a group where there's a ton of effects on the mob.</div><div> </div><div>It's been about a month since this was stealth changed/nerfed, can we get some sort of word that this is a bug or that it is indeed working as intended?</div><div> </div><div>-Kald, 60 Bruiser Permafrost</div>

[PhozFa]

Its not something i'm gonna lose sleep over but it is kinda annoying. I may of missed one but has anyone read a post explaining this change? If a dev hasn't commented on it i think they really should. Also that and the fact our stuns say they last 1 second now where when i pay attention to the icon it last longer (normal time). I also asked a guard friend if his knockback was "bugged" like that he also said yes.<div></div>

[Owa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Danterus wrote:<div>I'm not sure what the devs were trying to accomplish by removing the stun icons from our maintained window besides irratating a bunch of Bruisers.</div><div> </div><div>You can still chain stun by watching the icon on the creature's effect window, but it gets really annoying in a group where there's a ton of effects on the mob.</div><div> </div><div>It's been about a month since this was stealth changed/nerfed, can we get some sort of word that this is a bug or that it is indeed working as intended?</div><div> </div><div>-Kald, 60 Bruiser Permafrost</div><hr></blockquote><font size="4">My to-do list today included writing this exact same post. Thanks for saving me the trouble Kald. I too wish to know what the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is going on with this - a change that benefits no one and needlessly complicates gameplay.</font>

[glumlor]

Anyone bug it in game yet?I reccommend we all bug <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Moorgard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danterus wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not sure what the devs were trying to accomplish by removing the stun icons from our maintained window besides irratating a bunch of Bruisers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can still chain stun by watching the icon on the creature's effect window, but it gets really annoying in a group where there's a ton of effects on the mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's been about a month since this was stealth changed/nerfed, can we get some sort of word that this is a bug or that it is indeed working as intended? <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>To be clear, this was an intentional change, not a bug. It wasn't called out because the change was really intended to address an issue with NPCs, though it actually affected players as well. Let me explain.</P> <P>Stuns were changed to be non-maintained effects. Why? Because maintained effects terminate upon the caster's death. When an NPC hit you with a maintained spell, often the most effective means of dealing with it was to kill the caster. This rendered cure spells far less useful than they were meant to be and marginalized a lot of NPC abilities.</P> <P>Stuns and certain other negative effects are no longer maintained, making cures much more meaningful. For a specific bruiser example, before this change I hardly ever made use of the Indomitable Will line. Now I use it regularly, and there's much more incentive to upgrade those spells.</P> <P>I agree it was handy to see the effects of stuns in the maintained window, but since the spells are no longer maintained that isn't possible without a cumbersome workaround. I think the best approach is to know how long your stuns will last and plan accordingly when using them.</P>

[Signal9]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Danterus wrote:<div>I'm not sure what the devs were trying to accomplish by removing the stun icons from our maintained window besides irratating a bunch of Bruisers.</div><div> </div><div>You can still chain stun by watching the icon on the creature's effect window, but it gets really annoying in a group where there's a ton of effects on the mob.</div><div> </div><div>It's been about a month since this was stealth changed/nerfed, can we get some sort of word that this is a bug or that it is indeed working as intended?<hr></div></blockquote><p>To be clear, this was an intentional change, not a bug. It wasn't called out because the change was really intended to address an issue with NPCs, though it actually affected players as well. Let me explain.</p><p>Stuns were changed to be non-maintained effects. Why? Because maintained effects terminate upon the caster's death. When an NPC hit you with a maintained spell, often the most effective means of dealing with it was to kill the caster. This rendered cure spells far less useful than they were meant to be and marginalized a lot of NPC abilities.</p><p>Stuns and certain other negative effects are no longer maintained, making cures much more meaningful. For a specific bruiser example, before this change I hardly ever made use of the Indomitable Will line. Now I use it regularly, and there's much more incentive to upgrade those spells.</p><p>I agree it was handy to see the effects of stuns in the maintained window, but since the spells are no longer maintained that isn't possible without a cumbersome workaround. I think the best approach is to know how long your stuns will last and plan accordingly when using them.</p><hr></blockquote>Let's not use this reasoning on mez and root icons, though?

[Jhoric]

<div>Aye, please give us back our stun icons.</div>

[MadBarman]

If more debuff type spells are not going to be maintained to make cures more useful can you run a pass over both the brawler's cure lines please.I have master 1 Will of the Sky (lvl55) and I am finding it does not cure some effects froms mobs. Its effect reads cures 99 levels of hostile mental, poison, disease, heat and cold effects. I have found especially on heat/cold effects that it cures very, very rarely.<div></div>

[Bewts]

but in a group setting theres NO way to know if your stuns landed or not.  The mob just gets knocked around WAY too often to figure out if your stun landed or if someone elses did.  I used to time my CA's to keep the mob stunned as long as possible when I could see my timers.  Now, I just spam them for the extra damage because I dont have a clue if my stuns have landed and the combat spam at 100% haste minus making a special window for MY combat arts, my group/raid/guild chat etc is just too annoying with already 4 hotkeybars.<div></div>

[Sco]

<div>The effects bar for the target, mob or player, shows up, but is very small, and hard to distinguish.  Would it be possible to have the ability to enlarge that, just like maintained spell window, and buff window, etc.  This would let us see a little more that are stuns are there.  I found myself nose against the monitor almost looking sometimes.  Of course on this bar we would need to see the countdown decreasing for how long the stun would last.</div><div> </div><div>I am not sure if dots are the same way, but i believe they show up the same as stuns used to, and I dont really see the difference there. </div><div> </div><div>Nostra</div><div> </div>

[selch]

<div>We are talking about 1.0 seconds stun, arent we Moorguard?</div><div> </div><div>I mean as monk at L52, I got various stuns highest was taking 4.3 seconds, and all down to 1.0 seconds by now (not just scouts)</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Bewts]

Monk Statis Tactic:Tsunami 12 secondsStalking Leopard 4.3 SecondsSwooping Crane 1.7 SecondsArctic Talon 2.0 SecondsSilent Palm 6.0 Seconds20.0 Seconds the mob is not Auto attacking you13.7 Seconds the Mob cannot Nuke or use CA's10.0 Seconds Later, your arts refresh and you can do this:Stalking Leopard 4.3 SecondsSwooping Crane 1.7 SecondsArctic Talon 2.0 SecondsSilent Palm 6.0 Seconds8.0 Seconds the mob is not auto attacking you13.7 Seconds the Mob cannot Nuke or use CA'sHeal for 25%-31% Health and finish off the mobTotal duration:39.7 Seconds you do not face auto attack damage27.4 Seconds you do not face nukes or combat artsWe could time this using the maintained buff icons of our stuns.  Using an avoidance class, preventing attacks is our best asset.  We use avoidance for that, and we use stuns and stifles to augment that.  Effectively you have taken away half of our ability to handle a mob by removing our ability to know when our stuns land, when they fade, etc. Every step of the way this game has been 'dumbed' down to be more player friendly, simpler to understand and easier to perform.  Taking away our maintained stuns and dropping their durations 1.0 seconds each is like taking away a warlocks icons for maintaining their DoTs, or not showing a necromancer their pet's health.  Just because the work around is 'difficult' is NOT an EXCUSE for the situation all fighters face (and its not just monks/bruisers facing this issue).  Great products require great effort.  Put the EFFORT in and give us back our stuns as maintained buffs.  If we are 'overpowered' go ahead and shorten our durations, but 1.0 seconds<div></div>

[Unmask]

<div></div><p>This is tortured logic at best.  Stuns can be cured in 1 second with a cure spell.  I have no idea where you get the idea that killing the caster is easier than that.  Without a maintained icon they can no longer be cured (or at least we have no idea what cure to use).  This change makes absolutely no sense or am I missing something? </p><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Moorgard wrote:</p><div></div><p>Stuns were changed to be non-maintained effects. Why? Because maintained effects terminate upon the caster's death. When an NPC hit you with a maintained spell, often the most effective means of dealing with it was to kill the caster. This rendered cure spells far less useful than they were meant to be and marginalized a lot of NPC abilities.</p><p>Stuns and certain other negative effects are no longer maintained, making cures much more meaningful. For a specific bruiser example, before this change I hardly ever made use of the Indomitable Will line. Now I use it regularly, and there's much more incentive to upgrade those spells.</p><p>I agree it was handy to see the effects of stuns in the maintained window, but since the spells are no longer maintained that isn't possible without a cumbersome workaround. I think the best approach is to know how long your stuns will last and plan accordingly when using them.</p><hr></blockquote>

[Owa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><p>I agree it was handy to see the effects of stuns in the maintained window, but since the spells are no longer maintained that isn't possible without a cumbersome workaround. <font color="#ffff00">[Translation: We couldn't be arsed to fix it]</font> I think the best approach is to know how long your stuns will last and plan accordingly when using them. <font color="#ffff00">[Translation: We really couldn't be arsed to fix it. Ok?]</font></p><hr></blockquote>

[Shackler]

<div>[Removed for Content] LAZY developers, [Removed for Content] is the problem, it WAS already working before, you took it OUT. You make it sound like its a humongous amount of coding to implement it again.</div><div>Moorguard you are the laziest bum ever.</div><div> </div>

[PhozFa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><p>Stuns and certain other negative effects are no longer maintained, making cures much more meaningful. For a specific bruiser example, before this change I hardly ever made use of the Indomitable Will line. Now I use it regularly, and there's much more incentive to upgrade those spells.</p><p>I agree it was handy to see the effects of stuns in the maintained window, but since the spells are no longer maintained that isn't possible without a cumbersome workaround. I think the best approach is to know how long your stuns will last and plan accordingly when using them.</p><hr></blockquote>First off MG thank you for actully explaining the reason thou obviously it seems we don't agree. Second I wanna ask you as a bruiser how you made more use of the Will line now rather than before. It cured most stuns then and it does now. If i'm fighting a mob with a nasty stun i use it. Small stuns i ignore.And as someone said before i don't see how a stun is diffrent than a root/mez. Don't take this as my crying NERF the mez/root but honestly how is it diffrent?</span><div></div>

[PhozFa]

<span><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div>We are talking about 1.0 seconds stun, arent we Moorguard?</div><div> </div><div>I mean as monk at L52, I got various stuns highest was taking 4.3 seconds, and all down to 1.0 seconds by now (not just scouts)</div><hr width="100%" size="2"></blockquote>FYI - He Addressed 1.0 sec stuns here <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=7049#M7049">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=7049#M7049</a></span><div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<blockquote><hr>PhozFate wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><p>Stuns and certain other negative effects are no longer maintained, making cures much more meaningful. For a specific bruiser example, before this change I hardly ever made use of the Indomitable Will line. Now I use it regularly, and there's much more incentive to upgrade those spells.</p><p>I agree it was handy to see the effects of stuns in the maintained window, but since the spells are no longer maintained that isn't possible without a cumbersome workaround. I think the best approach is to know how long your stuns will last and plan accordingly when using them.</p><hr></blockquote>First off MG thank you for actully explaining the reason thou obviously it seems we don't agree. Second I wanna ask you as a bruiser how you made more use of the Will line now rather than before. It cured most stuns then and it does now. If i'm fighting a mob with a nasty stun i use it. Small stuns i ignore.And as someone said before i don't see how a stun is diffrent than a root/mez. Don't take this as my crying NERF the mez/root but honestly how is it diffrent?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Totally Agree and was thinkng the same thing , how come mez shows and others players stuns and roots show but ours dont ?? hmmm thats fair , theres no expliot in being able to chain your stuns to be able to survive a fight is there , just like a swashie mezes an add or cheap shots to get behind a mob etc etc etc ? i just dont get it please re-instate this ........ please for the love of chuck :smileyvery-happy: (well he is god after all)