Opinion/Feedback on LU20/KOS --> Bruisers nerfed ?

[Parasite]

<div>Hy there,</div><div> </div><div>First of all i would like to say i have had my bruiser since i started my play on the splitpaw server...</div><div> </div><div>I Was wondering if any other people feel that we have been nerfed drasticly with KoS.</div><div> </div><div>With the big ranger nerf, we bruisers got hit badly to since we bruisers have the same proc system as them but in our case the damage was balanced.</div><div>We no longer proc Brawl and our offensive stance doesn't proc anymore either. I noticed a big drop in our dps and i wonder if this was intentional since i never had the</div><div>feeling that we were overpowered. ( For those wondering , the stuns are still more then 1 second , just a graphig bug ! )</div><div> </div><div>Furthermore i like to discuss the AA we can now chose from. ( Yes i know there is many topic about it but now the definitive ones have been implemented )</div><div> </div><div>I will make it short and hope u other people start talking <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div>There is only 2 things bugging me since we lost some and got nothing in return ( my avoidance even dropped due to the ring changes )</div><div> </div><div>1) I would like to adress our BIG loss in DPS due to our procs. Our offensive stance is completely based on procs, this is now to our disadvantage and monks still get their huge Haste increase that boosts their proc chances !!!</div><div>Some sollutions to my idea ?</div><div>--> Make procs hit Harder, Make them que, or make them proc more so that we get 1 proc "almost every" attack instead of 5 once in a while.</div><div> </div><div>2) For The AA Changes i have only 1 thing to say.</div><div>What is up with the unarmed combat ?</div><div>I Like the STR line and i would be thrilled with AA if i could keep using my Fistwraps or Cestus ...</div><div>This line just screams for CHANGE ! Nobody fights unarmed since they removed the proc from our offensive stance ...</div><div>My suggestion ?</div><div>--> Make fistwraps and Cestus count as barehanded but make sure we can still hit epics !!!</div><div>This way 2handed has its own line , and maces and batons still have a line to.</div><div> </div><div>I would like to hear what u all think , and if somebody can confirm this with numbers etc ...</div><div>that wud be great ! :p</div><div> </div><div>Greetz and safe travels ,</div><div>Daveke the lvl 57 Bruiser on Splitpaw</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Parasite]

<div>Made a little count of our procs <--> proc chances</div><div> </div><div>I solod a lvl 52 heroic mob with offensive stanc on at all times , Roughhousing and 2 imbued weapons with 1.0 Delay</div><div>I did not use Thundering fists in this case.</div><div>If i get it right that is 10% chance to proc + 25% + 5% +5% with every attack for a total of 45% chance to proc every hit.</div><div> </div><div>The Count : 11 Procs in total on 71 Hits (not counting flaming lunge dot dmg)</div><div>Conclusion with a theoretical 45% proc chance we now have an effective proc chance of : 15% (rounded down)</div><div> </div><div>Greetingz</div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Parasiteke wrote:<div>Made a little count of our procs <--> proc chances</div><div> </div><div>I solod a lvl 52 heroic mob with offensive stanc on at all times , Roughhousing and 2 imbued weapons with 1.0 Delay</div><div>I did not use Thundering fists in this case.</div><div>If i get it right that is 10% chance to proc + 25% + 5% +5% with every attack for a total of 45% chance to proc every hit.</div><div> </div><div>The Count : 11 Procs in total on 71 Hits (not counting flaming lunge dot dmg)</div><div>Conclusion with a theoretical 45% proc chance we now have an effective proc chance of : 15% (rounded down)</div><div> </div><div>Greetingz</div><hr></blockquote>weapon or CA speed /3 * proc% = the real world proc %.</span></div>

[Mikeyb_71]

Haven't played my 58 Ranger since Friday...been mostly leveling up this toon.I personally haven't noticed a difference in the way I play him; from Saturday through now ( other than something minor)....but there could be variables.I find it easy to switch between Ranger & Bruiser...but have a heck of a time adjusting when I play my ZerkerRahboni - 58 Ranger ( Parked )Klint  - 28 BruiserSonjer - 28 Berserker<div></div>

[MrMartin]

<div></div><p>Did anyone notice that Thundering Fists no longer is "Until Canceled"??Its on a 30 sec timer and 1 min recast now.</p><p>This will bring my DPS down A LOT.</p><p>Now i can't hit the Thundering Fists and wander around with it still up,find a mob and start to beat on it and when my 5 procs are up I can't hit Thundering Fists again... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>This totally blows <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Elerri]

I think the missing procs from the Quarrel line that increase hate are causing me the most problems. I don't mind doing some less damage overall, we're still doing well for a tank. But the lost agro capability hurts, especially on our multi hit AE spell.

[Shackler]

<div></div><p>One thing thats defintely ninja nerfed is our Feign Death. I have it on Master I , which has a successrate of 96%. Now pre KoS i never ever  had it fail twice in a row before. Now with KoS i've had it fail twice in a row 3 times today, which smells like a nerf imo, ofcourse this will never be confirmed but i have my suspicions.</p><p>Second i noticed that crushing fury ( where you launch a serie of attacks, when one fails rest fails also) is way and way less successful as before. I do realize that these mobs in KoS are mostly higher lvl but still, what happened yesterday is comepletely bogus.</p><p>Tank was tanking mob, i was behind mob , i stunned it, then launched crushing fury, and [Removed for Content], the first hit already got parried !?!?! PARRIED, from behind and while mob was stunned , that even beyond bogus, its impossible.</p><p>Whole combat system needs another overhaul imo, its totally out of whack.</p><p> </p>

[Vorham]

<div></div><p>if you were behind mob and it parried means mob was a brawler</p><p>brawlers avoid like mad, thus crushing fury has a slim chance of working well</p><p>about FD, i had it fail 3x in a row earlier today also... course I also had it work everytime in halls of fate while gathering dragon bones solo at lvl 60... probably just a run of extremely bad, or extremely good luck depending on how you see it</p><p> </p>

[Owa]

<div></div><p><font size="4">I don't think there's any question that we got nerfed, and though I know 'nerfage' is all part of MMORPGs, SoE seem particularly keen on this sort of thing. DId you hear what hapened to SWG? </font></p><p><font size="4">No doubt nerfs are necessary sometimes - but I think the whole point of RPGs and leveling is that <em>your characters get stronger and more potent over time</em>. Spending $30 to be weaker than the day before an expansion is not what I call gaming fun - and not a very inspired business strategy either.</font></p><p><font size="4">Remember when the Guardians got nerfed and how [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed off so many of them were? That's us now. And unfortunately, SoE being the stubborn enitity it is, we have about as much chance of getting our strength back as they did. Probably the best we can hope for is that some other class (conjurors come to mind - I saw one tearing up KoS yesterday like it was going out of style) gets nerfed so we don't look so bad. That's what Guardians got and apparently some are able to enjoy their class more now we've been nerfed. Personally I don't think that's good enough - I don't want to have to nerf other classes to make mine feel potent.</font></p><p><font size="4">Possibly we brought this on ourselves with the 'I can solo XXX' posts - but it's sad that whenever people start posting about how much they're enjoying a class SOE feel the need to nerf it. I <em>would</em> say that at least we'll lose the FotM Bruisers  - if it wasn't for the feeling that I don't really want to log on myself at the moment. Maybe I'm just a flavour of the month player too? Or maybe it's a case of 'nerf me once, more fool you; nerf me repeatedly...'</font></p>

[Kuld]

<div></div><p>Im not into all the number crunching and %/chance x weapons equipped + #of boys MJ molested = ???</p><p>What matters to me is what I can kill solo, what I can tank when needed, and what I can offer to a group in the way of DPS.  I really havent noticed a drop in procs, with one cestii and one fistwrap, I proc pretty darn good (when not mashing CAs).  I have noticed that we dont avoid as good now (post LU-19 nerf), FD is failing ALOT more, and our CAs are getting parried or they just fail more often. </p><p>We are fighting new type mobs, so that could be the reason for some of our issues, but overall I cant complain.  I can still solo one or two 61 ^ mobs at a time without an issue (im 60 still).  I dont feel that is overpowered, and definately not underpowered.  We will never be able to tank as good as a guardian, or dps as good as a wizard, but Im happy with the ability to add a decent amount of either to any group/raid.</p>

[RustyB]

<div></div>was in some cave and got ambushed  and FD failed 3 times in a row!   I was SHOCKED!!!

[Ezariel]

<div></div><div>I can't say I really feel nerfed.  Then again I seem to have a different playstyle than others on these forums.  The only time I am spamming CA's is when I am solo, and that doesn't seem to be any harder than it was before to me.  When I group, I usually group with mostly the same people and we have worked out a system that is very effective for us.  My primary concern is tanking, not doing dps.  The rest of my groupmates do plenty of it and my sole reason for existence is to tank so they don't die.  I don't spam CA's in groups.  I am known for "rabid bruiser pulls".  Usually I am off pulling the next mob before the first even finishes the death animation.  I need to conserve power.  So I concentrate on my taunts, making sure I use them as soon as they are ready, above anything else that I can do.  If we are fighting linked encounters I use my ae attacks whenever they are ready.  I save my stuns and CA's for caster mobs and for giving a burst of hate for when our wizard gets bored and drops ice comet at 95% health.  So most of the time I am using auto attack for the most part.  And I am proc'ing tons while doing so. </div><div> </div><div>I don't really care that I don't parse out at the top of the dps list.  As long as I am doing my job effectively, which is tanking, I am perfectly happy.  The experience always flows smoothly and nonstop in my groups and rarely does someone die unless they do something incredibly suicidal.  Point I am trying to make, I really don't feel nerfed at all.</div><p>Message Edited by Ezariel on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:47 AM</span></p>

[Deeds]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ezariel wrote:<div></div><div>I can't say I really feel nerfed.  Then again I seem to have a different playstyle than others on these forums.  The only time I am spamming CA's is when I am solo, and that doesn't seem to be any harder than it was before to me.  When I group, I usually group with mostly the same people and we have worked out a system that is very effective for us.  My primary concern is tanking, not doing dps.  The rest of my groupmates do plenty of it and my sole reason for existence is to tank so they don't die.  I don't spam CA's in groups.  I am known for "rabid bruiser pulls".  Usually I am off pulling the next mob before the first even finishes the death animation.  I need to conserve power.  So I concentrate on my taunts, making sure I use them as soon as they are ready, above anything else that I can do.  If we are fighting linked encounters I use my ae attacks whenever they are ready.  I save my stuns and CA's for caster mobs and for giving a burst of hate for when our wizard gets bored and drops ice comet at 95% health.  So most of the time I am using auto attack for the most part.  And I am proc'ing tons while doing so. </div><div> </div><div>I don't really care that I don't parse out at the top of the dps list.  As long as I am doing my job effectively, which is tanking, I am perfectly happy.  The experience always flows smoothly and nonstop in my groups and rarely does someone die unless they do something incredibly suicidal.  Point I am trying to make, I really don't feel nerfed at all.</div><p>Message Edited by Ezariel on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:47 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Fair enough, but what if:</p><p>You are offtanking, or are put in a a dps role? (like a LOT of bruisers are)</p><p>You are in a raid and you are not the main tank? (like A LOT of bruisers are)</p><p>Trust me, you WILL notice a difference.</p><p>Atleast, as I posted in another post, it seems everyones dps has been brought down.</p>

[Cornbread Muffin]

<div>My main concern is tanking as well. It just seems like I get manhandled a lot more than I used to. I was in Sanctum with my guild (and about 100 other people) yesterday and our 61 zerker was tanking. He could end a fight a pair of grouped ^^ mobs with about 85-90% hp, whereas I would get a real beat down.</div><div> </div><div>Fortunately the new legendary gear is good, because t7 crafted rare mitigation is only 18% and change at lvl 70 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><p>Well TBH my F/D seems to be working better than ever lol Was doing it like every 30 secs in Barren Sky while collecting and harvesting , though definatly see a little change in DPS not to much to be concerned with mind u still loving brusier power for sure</p>

[Dannd]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cornbread Muffin wrote:<div>My main concern is tanking as well. It just seems like I get manhandled a lot more than I used to. I was in Sanctum with my guild (and about 100 other people) yesterday and our 61 zerker was tanking. He could end a fight a pair of grouped ^^ mobs with about 85-90% hp, whereas I would get a real beat down.</div><div> </div><div>Fortunately the new legendary gear is good, because t7 crafted rare mitigation is only 18% and change at lvl 70 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote><p>True, the mit on some T7 crafted has gone down, the mit on T7 legendary and treasured drops is higher in some cases.  What I like about the resists on T7 gear is the +deflection, +crushing, etc. effects we have. </p><p>I was tanking in Sanctum with guild yesterday and hardly ever dropped into the yellow on single herorics.  On groups, dropped down to about 50% at times, but we were taking on adds and trains, etc.  Exciting times!</p><p>I tanked Nest Egg yesterday, got all the way up the last named (I'm lvl 61).  Got him down to 5% health and he hit me really, really hard.  I was grouped with a level 60 Coercer, 61 Templar, 61 Defiler, and 61 Troub.  If we had a Fury or Warden, we'd own that mob.</p><p>I see that I'm avoiding a lot of hits, and deflecting a lot of hits.  I have a couple of T7 pieces on me adding to these stats.</p><p>I'm happy.  Now onto DPS:</p><p>Was in a group with a 63 Guard, 62 Assassin, 61 Ranger, healer and Warlock.  Parser was showing that I was second to the Assassin on DPS on most encounters in Sanctum.  I'm not noticing a drop in our DPS when grouped.  Solo, I notice my DPS has declined as I'm not killing solo mobs faster than usual (but, then again, they are either orange or yellow).</p><p> </p>

[mrstork]

We did prismatic dracota's yesterday. Lets just say the rangers werent happy. On a 24 person raid with 6 rangers, 2 assassins, 2 wizards, and other misc dps. I came out first, second, fourth on the 3 encounters. I wasnt even really trying, the fight where I came fourth I forgot to use Kidney punch the whole fight. Im happy.<div></div>

[lagerone]

<div>I have noticed I seem to be tanking better against overcon mobs since LU20.  At least the mobs in KoS.</div>

[fiskpinn]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>lagerone wrote:<div>I have noticed I seem to be tanking better against overcon mobs since LU20.  At least the mobs in KoS.</div><hr></blockquote>I have noticed this as well. Really seems like I can tank orange mobs better then even blue mobs. I doubt this was intended, but on orange mobs in KoS they usually want me to tank over a plate class, but anything less then orange, I seem to get hit quite alot. I have noticed a huge decrease in my dps <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't know if its just my playstyle (chaining ca's endlessly with very little autoattack) or what. On raids I used to always be top damage, and now if I break the top 5 I feel very fortunate. I will be the first to agree for a while bruisers were way overpowered (when we used to tank better then guards, and be a dps gods), but as always SoE instead of balancing the classes, in my oppinion overnerfed bruisers. The thing that bothered me the most about the situation is that lately they didn't even tell us in the patch notes about the changes, as if people were not bright enough to notice. I really hope SoE re-evaluates the role of the bruiser, because right now, we certainly aren't tanks in most situations, and although we still do decent dps, its not enough to make up for the lack of debuffs or utilities. Before cc we had ton's of debuffs of stiffles, which made is very useful in raids. Now I feel that bruisers are just another source of damage only. Sorry for my long winded rant, I have played a bruiser since the first day of play, and it sadens me to see what is happening to us over the last couple months.</span></div>