Anyone else kinda losing interest? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Fromingo

02-20-2006, 04:27 AM

<div></div><div></div>I'm losing interest. I was happy with the game before all this server move and LU19 crap. Now this AA junk is annoying me. The combined populations, on the server I am on, are just horrid. The game is so laggy now I can barely move in previously laggy zones and then dungeons are overcrowded and laggy like pre-move QH too. Even remote dungeons are overcrowded with EQ1 style camping and fighting over spawns starting to reappear. When you start seeing 30-60+ people in a dungeon you start realizing just how small that dungeon is. Even large dungeons like sol eye are starting to suck. CT is just unbelievably overcrowded with pretty much every area worth anything camped. Very lame moves lately SOE. And right when people were coming back to EQ2, guild was swelling again, you were on right track, now it's all F'd up and already had several people cancel accounts. Including me. When my acct expires if things still suck then some other game company will find my business I am sure.<p>Message Edited by Fromingo on <span class="date_text">02-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:28 PM</span></p>

Lareal

02-20-2006, 05:11 AM

Gotta agree Fromingo, these server mergers are killing me with lag. Last week 4 guilds got kicked from Gates due to lag. The night before that, it zoned half our raid to Shimmering Citadel and half to Court, then when the half in SC zoned back through the mirror to try to get into Court we we're locked out. GM's answer to CS tickets?: <b>"Sorry about that, can't do anything about it. We can't reset lockout timers."</b>. Which I would completely understand in most situations, but when multiple high end guilds all petition the same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing......Every zone is packed. Maj Dul lag is wicked. Silent City eye camping is a madhouse.Wouldn't it have made more sense to combine 2 light load servers to make a medium load server than to pile a light server on a medium and make in heavy?Lot of folks getting severly fed up with the lag and the crowds. Don't know how much more folks will take.<div></div>

Vorham

02-20-2006, 08:41 AM

<div></div><p>i sort of am... weak AAs, awful changes to procs...server merges and the horrific lag interfering with raids...the general feeling that SOE doesn't really have a vision for the Bruiser class.. just getting old</p><p>still havent bought KoS, am in no hurry for it... have to see how it goes</p>

Sufu

02-20-2006, 11:19 AM

I totally agree with Gaige. Vanguard sucks. It's all hype and fluff.<div></div>

Mantua1

02-20-2006, 02:28 PM

<div></div>played Bruiser since launch. Am not loosing interest. Still to much pummeling to do before i loose interest.

TheSummoned

02-20-2006, 04:45 PM

Lot of people say that Vanguard is great too... Different strokes for different folkes.<div></div>

Redbed

02-20-2006, 05:55 PM

<div>Ive lost interest to the point where Ive cancelled my subscription (expires in April) and dont plan to get Kingdom of Sky. The first nail was changing the disciples in POF to bruisers. That really hit me hard. Next was reading through the AAs and the non-bruiser flavor to them, they all sound like monk AAs. The profession hat thing wasnt the final straw it was past it, knowing our hat wouldnt be ready on release...Its par for the course. SOE still dont have an idea what the bruiser is or how to treat us. Pretty much looking at KOS I really dont have a reason to play.</div><div> </div><div>To be honest, story wise, I dont give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about dragons. Ive been dragging my feet on Nagafans quest, had no interest at all in the Silver and Gold in DOF and frankly, an entire expansion full of them. I ll just sit this one out. I would like to play the game and Ill keep an open mind on further expansions but ....seriously, nothing for me in the next 3-6 months. </div><div> </div><div>Pretty much cleaned out my apartment in North Freeport and put everything into storage. I got one item to pass off to a guildie and a chest full of status things to turn in for guild points once KOS Goes live then I think Ill camp somewhere and take a break.</div><div> </div><div>Ill come back when theirs something for me to do.</div>

CosmicAcidGu

02-20-2006, 07:25 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Redbed wrote:<div> The first nail was changing the disciples in POF to bruisers. That really hit me hard. </div><hr></blockquote>wow. People quit the game for really strange reasons.Finnster</span><div></div>

Owa

02-20-2006, 09:27 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<div></div><font size="4">The NDA has been lifted from DDO, obviously, but not from Vanguard. If you're in that beta and want to stay there you probably shouldn't post anything about the game. They take a dim view of that sort of thing. </font><hr></blockquote>I know how NDAs work, thanks <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote><p><font size="4">You know how they work and choose to ignore them? You know how they work but believe they apply to everyone except you? Perhaps you imagine your 'l33t skillz' are proof against litigation*? I'm curious as to which particular mania animates you this time. Do tell.</font></p><p><font size="4"></font> </p><p><font size="4"></font> </p><p><font size="1">*Ok so maybe I'm over-dramatizing. But it makes the post funnier.</font></p>

Owa

02-20-2006, 10:14 PM

<div></div><p><font size="4">Anyway, Gaige-baiting aside ( a day not spent baiting is a day wasted) , my ennui has less to do with disappointing AAs (I don't even understand them yet, to be honest) or any nerfs, real or imagined.</font></p><p><font size="4">The real reason I can't be bothered to log my mighty Bruiser on at the moment is the feeling of existential angst that affects both computer characters and their creators at a certain stage in life: "What's it all <em>for</em>?"</font></p><p><font size="4">I <em>could</em> go and see if there's a raid going on and hope my number comes up on the /ran 1000 so I can upgrade some bit of gear.</font></p><p><font size="4"> But will it really change anything? Will it make me more mighty? Slightly, but not so much as you might think. Will it open up new experiences in Norrath that are different to anything I've seen before. Probably not. Will it make me more attractive to girls? Probably - but that's just 'cause it's me and I'm already extremely cool. Sadly, the rest of you won't be so lucky.</font></p><p><font size="4">Dunno... I've played this game more than any other and spent <em>far</em> too much time on it than I should with regard to real life committments. Maybe it's just time to move on, as if in a love affair when the passion has faded. If you stay too long you always end up hating each other. What I'm getting at is surely games have a life-expectancy too?</font></p><p><font size="4"></font> </p><p><font size="4">Having <em>said</em> that though, if KoS offers me something tasty - like the girlfriend who starts working out and wearing outrageous underwear when she thinks you might be losing interest - then I might forget all that angst crap and get right back in the saddle*.</font></p><p> </p><p><font size="1"><font size="2">*This post has been tested on feminists and scores a 8.3 on the P. Diddy Offensive-Sexism Scale</font> </font></p>

Gaige

02-20-2006, 10:48 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<div></div><p><font size="4">You know how they work and choose to ignore them? You know how they work but believe they apply to everyone except you? Perhaps you imagine your 'l33t skillz' are proof against litigation*? I'm curious as to which particular mania animates you this time. Do tell.</font></p><p><font size="1">*Ok so maybe I'm over-dramatizing. But it makes the post funnier.</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Litigation? LoL. For saying that Sigil's game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes sucks?</p><p>/rofl</p><p>At any rate Vanguard sucks. Its not very fun, is full of time sinks, the devs refuse to consider the 'fun factor' in thier effort to make a hard MMO.</p><p>They fail to realize the difference between hard/challenging and tedious/time consuming.</p><p>I wish them luck getting 250k subscribers.</p><p><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>You also assume that I'm bound by the NDA Anna, why do you do that?</p>

Owa

02-20-2006, 10:57 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><font size="4"></font><blockquote><font size="2"></font><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><font size="2"></font><hr>annaspider wrote:<div></div><p><font size="2">You know how they work and choose to ignore them? You know how they work but believe they apply to everyone except you? Perhaps you imagine your 'l33t skillz' are proof against litigation*? I'm curious as to which particular mania animates you this time. Do tell.</font></p><p><font size="2">*Ok so maybe I'm over-dramatizing. But it makes the post funnier.</font></p><font size="2"></font><hr></blockquote><p><font size="2">Litigation? LoL. For saying that Sigil's game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes sucks?</font></p><p><font size="2">/rofl</font></p><p><font size="2">At any rate Vanguard sucks. Its not very fun, is full of time sinks, the devs refuse to consider the 'fun factor' in thier effort to make a hard MMO.</font></p><p><font size="2">They fail to realize the difference between hard/challenging and tedious/time consuming.</font></p><p><font size="2">I wish them luck getting 250k subscribers.</font></p><p><font size="2"><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></p><p><font size="2">You also assume that I'm bound by the NDA Anna, why do you do that?</font></p><font size="2"></font><hr></blockquote><font size="4">If I didn't, I wouldn't have been able to make my funny post funny. When you don't know much about games and you post as much as I do, you need something to fill the space...</font><p>EDIT - This 'Anna' stuff is starting to make me feel wierd. It's not as funny as I thought it'd be a year ago. Thus, from now on I demand to be referred to as <font color="#ff0000">'Owain - 9th Best Bruiser on Lucan'</font>. [If you think 9th is too optimistic just use whatever figure seems plausible. The red font is entirely optional]</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by annaspider on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:05 PM</span></p>

Jezekie

02-21-2006, 01:09 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:Wrote some stuff <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div><font size="4"></font></div><hr></blockquote>I can see where one might find a touch of doubt these days.It's been a rough ride for Bruisers since launch, well even before the game took off. One of the biggest concerns in the Pre-Launch beta was wether Brawlers, Monks and Bruisers were viable as tanks for both groups and raids throughout the games various content and levels, as Pre-Launch beta showed issues regarding Avoidance and Mitigation and the difficulty in keeping a Brawler up vs the various NPCs that populated the lands back then, granted I never reached higher then early 30s in beta, but even back then it was a struggle being an avoidance based tanks. We were reassured by developers though that an avoidance tank would be a viable choice going forward, and that all classes that sprung from the Fighter Archtype would be balanced out, something that was retold often after release.Then the game shipped, people were enjoying them self and leveling onwards, we saw various changes, we lost the ability to use a shied and instead got round shields incorporated in our Deflection ability, changes to AGI buffs to have a lesser effect on Avoidance and various other changes but not one as big as we saw with the introduction of Live Update #13 which was an attempt to bring better balance to all classes, it can then be argued wether that goal was reached or not, I'd lean towards the not enough side. As we did see many changes for the better, but a shift from having warriors being the preferred tanks, more so guardians pre-LU#13, wasn't accomplished with the overall community or the classes them self. Could we tank? Sure, but not on par with the ease that came from having Warriors or Crusaders tanking.In between all this, one of if not The most debated issue on the forums was DPS vs Tank for Brawlers, as both Monks and Bruisers dished out considerable amounts of damage and still do so today to some extend in comparison to our other Fighter brethren. The issue was hotly debated back and fourth up until around LU#13 where the fighting died down and people either adopted the tank mind set, or quietly continued to carry on in the DPS mind set though to a lesser extend then before. The path of a Brawler has always been one of mixed feelings and emotions among the forum community. And I doubt this current community, or the next one, will ever settle on one defined path, be that either as a Tank first and foremost, or on DPS.Itemization is another fierce beast we've had to fight and one that has always been troublesome for Brawlers as item drops have been in favor of the Plate armor and generic leather armor much more then it has for leather based tank armor for Brawlers, and it still exists today apart from a few pieces in the higher end todays Brawler still resembles a Druid throughout the majority of his/her journey.Live Update #20 is upon us soon, and things havn't changed much since the big changes in LU#13, you won't find Brawlers desired as Epic x4 tanks when there is a plate wearing tank present which has much easier access to appropriate tank equipment, can we do well vs Heroics? Sure we can, but there isn't anything to the game once you reach the current level cap but to pick up the fist wraps, or your cestiis and go raiding, either as a struggling tank or yet another DPS_player05. Though monks got more utility with the introduction of Tsunamie, but I disgres.With the introduction of LU#20 we find the new Achievement system, which makes someone who've played since the beginning only shake his head in disbelief and ponder what the direction the designers is trying to steer the Bruiser and Monks classes in. For they leave a lot to be desired, and very little to be wanted. And apart from a select few, no one has shown much appreciation for them in any way or shape. And looking at other classes selection of Achievements makes this Bruiser at least think that they are trying to push the Brawlers out of the scope entirely as validated tanks for epic encounters, as other classes sees much more of a boost to their defining ability, or at a minimum water it down even further while widen the gap that exists between Brawlers and the plate wearers. When the classes in fact needs quite the opposite, ie. a helping hand and something to better define us as Tanks among our brethren in arms in the Fighter Archtype.What lies ahead? We'll soon see the release of the next expansion Kingdom of Sky which explores what remains of the Plane of Sky islands which we saw a bit of in the previous expansion, and we'll see battles with huge dragons and new copy/pasted geometry and textures and new instances reused for both heroic and epic content. New quests, new items, more of the same in other words.With LU#20 comes the release of PvP, which for some is eagerly awaited, and having beta'ed it a fair bit, I'd say it's going to hit home for a lot of people, and hit a miss for others. It has a way to go, but the developers behind the PvP system has shown a lot of effort and passion and I'm fairly certain it won't just be dropped come release, and that we'll see the introduction of many new features as well as a ton of balancing especially during the first few months. PvP is also going to be my new home in EQ2, though undecided still wether it'll be as a Bruiser again or something new and different.My two copper pieces worth of thoughts</span></div>

Colossaltitan

02-21-2006, 02:43 AM

<div></div>/not worthy of Jezekiell.You write posts better than anyone I know, say exactly what needs to be said, how it needs to be said, when it needs to be said.Jezekiell > All Bruisers.

ShinmaRyche

02-21-2006, 02:56 AM

<div></div><font color="#ffff00">Wow, that wasnt 2c worth of opinion, it was 2p worth. You should make a new thread in Gameplay, with the title Jezekiell's thoughts on the Bruiser class, or something like that. A Dev really needs to read that.</font>

TheSummoned

02-21-2006, 08:51 AM

I'm also often pondering what our role in the game is... The devs have no vision for this class. I can tank, I enjoy tanking even epics but on the other hand why tank when there's a plate around? I want to hear healers say:" I don't care who tanks, I can keep both tanks up equally well."But with these AAs that won't be happening. The warrior AAs have me boggling wether the AA dev knows what he's doing. They have further widened the gap between warriors and other tanks. At this rate I wish I had picked a bard or rogue from the start, at least I'd know what my role is!Devs, don't let us go wondering in the dark here!The big issue I have is with itemization. It's very poorly done and the plate tanks in my guild were fully decked out in proper fabled while I was sporting some leather healer pants looking like a druid. I was surprised someone didn't come up to me wanting SoW. I truely hope that changes in KoS and brawlers see a fair share of truely brawler gear.And Jeze, always a joy to read your posts.<div></div>

shadyshab

02-21-2006, 09:23 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<div><font size="4">Due to NDAs I can't tell you whether I've been participating in any betas, but if I had (which I haven't) I'd <em>definitely</em> want you to know that the </font><font size="2">[-edited for legal reasons-]<font size="4"> is</font> [-edited for legal reasons-]</font><font size="4"> and quite a large amount of the <font size="2">[-edited for legal reasons-]</font><font size="4"> </font> doesn't <font size="2">[-edited for legal reasons-]</font> even if you <font size="2">[-edited for legal reasons-] </font>pretty hard.</font></div><div><font size="4"></font> </div><div><font size="4"></font> </div><hr></blockquote></span><font size="4"><font size="2"><font size="4"><b></b></font><font size="4">Well, you see </font></font></font><font size="2">[-edited for legal reasons-]<font size="4"> is</font> [-edited for legal reasons-]</font><font size="4"> and <font size="2">[-edited for legal reasons-] <font size="4"><b>is</b></font> </font></font><font size="4"><font size="2">[-edited for legal reasons-] <font size="4"><b>.....I think the tradeoff is that our class is a very viable soloer. We are not considered tanks nor dps at the moment. Sure, gaige with his fully raid fabled gear can MT a raid in a bind, but to what degree is he any better than a 60 guardian in treasured? Not much my friend, and i don't need stats to prove that. It's obvious.....</b></font></font></font><font size="4"><font size="2"></font></font><div></div>

Lareal

02-21-2006, 09:30 AM

Seems to be they are setting brawlers, or at least Monks up as pullers again. Tsunanmi/Outward calm were one step, the Mantis star STA debuff seems another.Now I loved pulling in EQ1, because there was almost an art form to it, but the mechanics in EQ2 make it much less interesting to pull in.Jezekial hit the nail on the head with the DPS/tank debate: there are always going to be two mindsets among brawlers about which role they want. The thing is, the AA's(if properly implemented) were a way to allow folks to choose their paths;all-out DPS, More robust tank, or a little of both.All they had to do is orient various trees towards various areas, such as STR granting more dmg per attack, double attacks, etc. STA granting more HP, Mitigation Etc. AGI= Avoidance, increased riposte ability, etc. Folks could choose to max out DPS lines, Tank lines, or spread out the skills a bit. We would still have our base brawler skills, but would be able to orient more to the way we wanted to play.A little thought put into the AA's would have made folks a lot happier.<div></div>

Jezekie

02-21-2006, 11:30 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Lareal wrote:All they had to do is orient various trees towards various areas, such as STR granting more dmg per attack, double attacks, etc. STA granting more HP, Mitigation Etc. AGI= Avoidance, increased riposte ability, etc. Folks could choose to max out DPS lines, Tank lines, or spread out the skills a bit. We would still have our base brawler skills, but would be able to orient more to the way we wanted to play.A little thought put into the AA's would have made folks a lot happier.<div></div><hr></blockquote>That was pretty much my, and others, original suggestions on the beta board after seeing the first drafts of the achievements available.I didn't bother writing more on it after the first draft, because the achievements were jumbled around all together shortly after, and I realized as well that they weren't going to make them separate DPS, Tank, Utility, ect lines.Anyway I pulled the draft I wrote from the beta boards. Keep in mind that most of these abilities are from before all the changes, and some are even added or removed to the list, that made more sense then what was available at the time. The blank spots were placeholders for other ideas that I never got around to writing because it was a waste of time.<span><blockquote><hr><span><font color="#cc0000">Strength</font>: (Primary DPS) Primal Brawn: Increases Strength by 5 per rank (passive) Momentum Punch: (It needs it's Primary/Secondary slot is empty requirement removed, bare minimum make it dependant on fist based weapons) Double Attack: Inflicts xxx melee damage on target, Inflicts yyy melee damage on target.</span><span> Tiger's Speed: Increase Attack Speed of caster by 2.5% per rank (passive)</span><span> Chi: Attack and Spell Haste (Maybe rename it to Chi Flow, or Chi Release, something more "dynamic" then just Chi) <font color="#ffff33">Agility</font>: (Primary Tanking) Reflexes of the Tiger: Increases Agility by 5 per rank (passive) Blank:</span><span> Way of the Tiger: Increases Defense by 2.9 per rank (passive)</span><span> Deflectin Pincers: Increases Deflection by 2.9 per rank (passive</span><span>) </span><span>Eagle's Talon</span><span>: Increase parry by 5.8 per rank (passive)</span><span> <font color="#00cc00">Stamina</font>: (Secondary Tanking) Heart of the Mantis: Increases Stamina by 5 per rank (passive) </span><span>Blank: Regeneration: Increases Health regeneration in combat by x% per rank </span><span>(passive)</span> <span></span><span>Bamboo Growth: Increases Max Health of caster by 0.5% per rank if Two-Handed weapon equipped. (passive) </span><span>(Remove the 2H requirement)</span><span> </span><span></span><span></span><span>Primal Toughness</span><span>: Increases Mitigation by 40 per rank (passive)</span><span> <font color="#0033ff">Wisdom</font>: (</span><span>Utility/Misc</span><span>) Wisdom of the leaves: Increases Wisdom by 5 per rank (passive) Blank:</span><span></span><span> Wisdom of Ages: Increases in combat power regeneration by x% per rank (passive)</span><span> </span><span>Blank:</span><span> Warding of the Ancient: Increases resistances vs all magical damage by xxx% per rank.</span><span></span><span> <font color="#999999">Intelligence</font>: (</span><span></span><span>Secondary DPS</span><span>) Insight of Eagle: Increases Intelligence by 5 per rank (passive) Pressure Point: Applies Pressure Point on target, increases Melee Crit chance of caster, req. must be flanking (Remove the Flanking requirement) Eagle's Fury: Increases melee crit chance of caster by 1.3 per rank (passive)</span><span> Bamboo Storm: On a successfull melee attack this will cast Bamboo Siphon on target of attack. Inflicts xxx damage on target. Heals caster for yyy.</span><span> </span><span> Eagle Shriek: Increases melee crit chance by 100 if under 20% health.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote></span></span></div>

Gaige

02-21-2006, 11:32 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>shadyshabby wrote:<span></span><font size="4"><font size="2"><font size="4"><b>I think the tradeoff is that our class is a very viable soloer. We are not considered tanks nor dps at the moment. Sure, gaige with his fully raid fabled gear can MT a raid in a bind, but to what degree is he any better than a 60 guardian in treasured? Not much my friend, and i don't need stats to prove that. It's obvious.....</b></font></font></font><hr></blockquote><p>What a joke.</p><p>1) I'm not fully fabled.</p><p>2) I outtank some guardians that are fully fabled, depending on the mob.</p><p>We can, and do, tank raids. Get over it.</p>

Grantr

02-21-2006, 03:12 PM

<div></div><div>Never mind.</div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Grantron on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:14 AM</span></p>

shadyshab

02-22-2006, 02:40 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>shadyshabby wrote:<span></span><font size="3"><b>I think the tradeoff is that our class is a very viable soloer. We are not considered tanks nor dps at the moment. Sure, gaige with his fully raid fabled gear can MT a raid in a bind, but to what degree is he any better than a 60 guardian in treasured? Not much my friend, and i don't need stats to prove that. It's obvious.....</b></font><hr></blockquote><p>What a joke.</p><p>2) I outtank some guardians that are fully fabled, depending on the mob.</p><hr></blockquote>Ah yes, I forgot to consider the v v deer in TS as a raid encounter. My apologees' sire <span>:smileywink:</span></span></div>

TheSummoned

02-22-2006, 03:58 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>shadyshabby wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>shadyshabby wrote:<span></span><font size="3"><b>I think the tradeoff is that our class is a very viable soloer. We are not considered tanks nor dps at the moment. Sure, gaige with his fully raid fabled gear can MT a raid in a bind, but to what degree is he any better than a 60 guardian in treasured? Not much my friend, and i don't need stats to prove that. It's obvious.....</b></font><hr></blockquote><p>What a joke.</p><p>2) I outtank some guardians that are fully fabled, depending on the mob.</p><hr></blockquote>Ah yes, I forgot to consider the v v deer in TS as a raid encounter. My apologees' sire <span>:smileywink:</span></span></div><hr></blockquote>Didn't I put you on my ignore? Bleh, time to reignore you.</span><div></div>

Linkdead_Phoen

02-22-2006, 04:39 AM

<div></div><div></div>Excuse me for perhaps rekindling an old flame, but while EQ2 is patching, I ran across this post and I would like to express my opinion.<span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<div></div><p><font size="4">You know how they work and choose to ignore them? You know how they work but believe they apply to everyone except you? Perhaps you imagine your 'l33t skillz' are proof against litigation*? I'm curious as to which particular mania animates you this time. Do tell.</font></p><p><font size="1">*Ok so maybe I'm over-dramatizing. But it makes the post funnier.</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Litigation? LoL. For saying that Sigil's game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes sucks?</p><p>/rofl</p><p>At any rate Vanguard sucks. Its not very fun, is full of time sinks, the devs refuse to consider the 'fun factor' in thier effort to make a hard MMO.</p><p>They fail to realize the difference between hard/challenging and tedious/time consuming.</p><p>I wish them luck getting 250k subscribers.</p><p><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>You also assume that I'm bound by the NDA Anna, why do you do that?</p><hr></blockquote>I don't make generalizations on games until I actually play them. I don't think you should be talking crap about a game that you probably haven't ever played. If you have ever even visited the main forums you will see that unlike the SOE GMs/customer service reps/whatever they are, they actually give worthwile posts and interact with the community instead of making painfully generic posts and sounding like robots with an automated responce generator. You're right, Vanguard may indeed turn out to be an extremely sucky game, but it looks a heck of a lot better than anything else out there at the moment. Also, the main goal of Vanguard, unlike EQ2, is not to get a crap load of subscribers and make the most money, although I'm sure that's what everyone in Sigil wants, but to make sure that the experience is enjoyable for those that enjoy this type of game. You may not be that person, but you shouldn't say all that about a game that you haven't even played yet (if you have you would have just broken the NDA). Also, I ask you to please give me an example of how EQ2 is such a challenging game. I'm sorry, but I don't find a game in which you can hit 60 in mere weeks, no death penalty, and complete soloability makes for a hard game. Seriously, I come back after a long break and hit permafrost for some XP and I could have sworn i was leveling even faster at 48 than I was when I was in my high 20s and low 30s. You wanna talk about a timesink? Well guess what, EQ2 has them as well. What do you call having to kill 120 different types of mobs that hardly ever even update your quest journal or killing 200 gnolls/orcs for a betrayal quest? That's more of a timesink than a death penalty, building a well balanced group, or grinding through the levels will ever be. EQ2 is by far the easiest MMORPG I have ever played, err well, second after WoW, and before you start throw a crapload of statistics and stories about you and your friend Noah, please understand that raiding does not equal the entire game. There is an entire 50 levels to go through before you hit all that.You see, you obviously know a great deal about your game, few will deny this, however, it is the way in which you present yourself that I believe causes you to get under the skin of so many people. All you come off as is a stuck up haughty little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Dont' be such an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and maybe people will actually listen to what you have to say.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Linkdead_Phoenix on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:43 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Linkdead_Phoenix on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:54 PM</span></p>

Gaige

02-22-2006, 06:54 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Linkdead_Phoenix wrote:<div></div><div></div><p><span>If you have ever even visited the main forums you will see that unlike the SOE GMs/customer service reps/whatever they are, they actually give worthwile posts and interact with the community instead of making painfully generic posts and sounding like robots with an automated responce generator. <font color="#ffff00"> I would too if I was trying to attract customers from other games and convince them my team and my game was going to be different and more worth thier money.</font></span></p><p><span>You're right, Vanguard may indeed turn out to be an extremely sucky game, but it looks a heck of a lot better than anything else out there at the moment. Also, the main goal of Vanguard, unlike EQ2, is not to get a crap load of subscribers and make the most money, although I'm sure that's what everyone in Sigil wants, but to make sure that the experience is enjoyable for those that enjoy this type of game. You may not be that person, but you shouldn't say all that about a game that you haven't even played yet (if you have you would have just broken the NDA). <font color="#ffff00">I'm sure Microsoft, who paid for Vanguard, doesn't want to make the most money. I'm sure Microsoft will be perfectly happy with Blizzard's MMO spanking the socks off of thiers.</font>Also, I ask you to please give me an example of how EQ2 is such a challenging game. <font color="#ffff00">Vanguard isn't hard, its time consuming and tedious.</font></span></p><p><span></span><span>You see, you obviously know a great deal about your game, few will deny this, however, it is the way in which you present yourself that I believe causes you to get under the skin of so many people. All you come off as is a stuck up haughty little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Dont' be such an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and maybe people will actually listen to what you have to say. <font color="#ffff00">Should follow the forum rules sir, personal insults are a no-no <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></span></p><hr></blockquote>

ChrisRay

02-22-2006, 07:50 AM

I'm with Gaige on this. People expecting vanguard to whipe the socks off the current MMORPG market are going to be "very" disapointed. High expectations yield high disapointments. I havent experienced a "hard" MMORPG. Thats including vanguard, EQ 1, WoW, and EQ 2. The only differences are emphasized style of gameplays. Different strokes for different folks. <div></div>

Linkdead_Phoen

02-22-2006, 08:04 AM

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<blockquote><hr>Linkdead_Phoenix wrote:<p><span>If you have ever even visited the main forums you will see that unlike the SOE GMs/customer service reps/whatever they are, they actually give worthwile posts and interact with the community instead of making painfully generic posts and sounding like robots with an automated responce generator. <font color="#ffff00"> I would too if I was trying to attract customers from other games and convince them my team and my game was going to be different and more worth thier money.</font></span></p><p><span>You're right, Vanguard may indeed turn out to be an extremely sucky game, but it looks a heck of a lot better than anything else out there at the moment. Also, the main goal of Vanguard, unlike EQ2, is not to get a crap load of subscribers and make the most money, although I'm sure that's what everyone in Sigil wants, but to make sure that the experience is enjoyable for those that enjoy this type of game. You may not be that person, but you shouldn't say all that about a game that you haven't even played yet (if you have you would have just broken the NDA). <font color="#ffff00">I'm sure Microsoft, who paid for Vanguard, doesn't want to make the most money. I'm sure Microsoft will be perfectly happy with Blizzard's MMO spanking the socks off of thiers.</font>Also, I ask you to please give me an example of how EQ2 is such a challenging game. <font color="#ffff00">Vanguard isn't hard, its time consuming and tedious.</font></span></p><p><span></span><span>You see, you obviously know a great deal about your game, few will deny this, however, it is the way in which you present yourself that I believe causes you to get under the skin of so many people. All you come off as is a stuck up haughty little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Dont' be such an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and maybe people will actually listen to what you have to say. <font color="#ffff00">Should follow the forum rules sir, personal insults are a no-no <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></span></p><hr></blockquote><hr></blockquote>Ok, for the sake of not quoting the same post 100 times, I'm not going to post inside my quote, instead respond to everything you said right here. First off, when EQ2 was in developement how many times did we see John Smedley posting on boards of all the pre release guilds, various fan sites and even the game's own beta forum? How many times did he write huge articles on instancing and the like? I'm not going to say there aren't any but if you can just show me "one" article or any way that Smedly has interacted with the community of this game other than the "state of the game" letters, I'll be grateful. Secondly, I believe I already said that Sigil and or Microsoft "wants" to make all the money in the world and become the most sucessful MMORPG company in existance, but it simply won't happen. WoW will always have a hold over the MMORPG market simply because of it's mainstream appeal. Do I think Vanguard may potentially be more sucessful than EQ2? Yes, I believe that it deffinately has a chance because of all the oldschool EQ players that still play EQ and several others currently left without a MMO to play. Do I think it will put EQ2 out of business? No I don't. EQ2 has found it's niche market and will continue to thrive. I believe Vanguard also has a niche market out there. FFXI is considered by many to be an even larger timesink and more tedious than EQ1 yet it is still played by arguably more people than EQ2. Vanguard will make a good amount of money. What's time consuming and tedious for some, isn't for others. I deffinately don't think Brad is going to sacrifice his "vision" for the almighty $$$ like SOE has done with this game. The entire reason Brad left SOE in the first place was because he felt that he was being pushed farther and farther away from his true passion and that is making video games, not cash cows. While everyone at Sigil wants Vanguard to be the best MMORPG ever, I highly doubt Brad would have left SOE to start his own company only to turn around, and focus more on the $$$s than the passion of making the video games that he loves.Also, take my "personal insults" as you call them as good advice, because that's really what they are. Nobody likes a smart alleck, and you're treading close to that territory. If you would just express your oppinions in a civilized manor it'd be a great start instead of making yourself look like a genious and everyone else look like they're stupid. I can guarantee that that will stop a lot of the "anti-Gaige" negativity going on in these forums.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Linkdead_Phoenix on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:06 PM</span></p>

Gaige

02-22-2006, 08:08 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Linkdead_Phoenix wrote:<div></div><div><span>Also, take my "personal insults" as you call them as good advice, because that's really what they are. Nobody likes a smart alleck, and you're treading close to that territory. If you would just express your oppinions in a civilized manor it'd be a great start instead of making yourself look like a genious and everyone else look like they're stupid. I can guarantee that that will stop a lot of the "anti-Gaige" negativity going on in these forums.</span><hr></div></blockquote><p>Insults are insults, but everyone is entitled to thier own opinion.</p><p>As for Anti-Gaige, I couldn't possibly careless.</p>

Linkdead_Phoen

02-22-2006, 08:16 AM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div>Insults are insults, but everyone is entitled to thier own opinion.<p>As for Anti-Gaige, I couldn't possibly careless.</p><hr></blockquote>1. I never called you anything2. I said you were acting like a .....3. I said you were "being" a ....This does not mean I am calling you anything. Goodness knows, we've all acted like ...... and have been a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] before. I just don't understand why you have to act the way you do when you post and why you can't just be a little more polite. Stop just picking specific parts out of my posts and answer the actual questions for once. You have yet to provide me with one community article by John Smedley, or even proven how EQ2 is a challenging game.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Linkdead_Phoenix on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:17 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Linkdead_Phoenix on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:20 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Linkdead_Phoenix on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:22 PM</span></p>

Gaige

02-22-2006, 08:28 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Linkdead_Phoenix wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><span>You have yet to provide me with one community article by John Smedley, or even proven how EQ2 is a challenging game.</span><hr></div></blockquote><p>How is Vanguard challenging?</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://blog.station.sony.com/">http://blog.station.sony.com/</a></p>

Linkdead_Phoen

02-22-2006, 08:49 AM

<div></div>ahhh, that's good, so Smed actually posts on the station blog. I still haven't seen a post by him on these boards or on another gaming site, but, then again, I didn't ask you to find one from a specific place now did I. I believe the question was how is "Everquest II" challenging, not Vanguard, but I will answer your question anyway in hopes that you will answer mine. My answer is that, well, no one knows for sure just how hard Vanguard is going to be, because we haven't played it. All we really have to go on is what Sigil tells us, and I'm sure a lot of what they say could perhaps be PR and some of it could be truth, but no one is really going to be able to tell just how hard Vanguard is until the game is released. Judging by what you post you seem to know a lot about how Vanguard actually plays. I would asume you aren't in the beta because you would be breaking the NDA, maybe you heard it from someone who was breaking the NDA, or perhaps you're just making assumptions.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Linkdead_Phoenix on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:52 PM</span></p>

Vorham

02-22-2006, 06:51 PM

I remember when SWG was coming out, all the hype... how it would be the best MMORPG ev4r etcSame with WoWSame with pretty much ever MMORPG since then, though only SWG and WoW got the universal fanboy acclaimIm sure Vanguard will be a good gameHowever, it will not be the end-all game of all time... despite all the hype and forum talkThere are always problems... rushed development schedules, producers saying "nix that feature" etc..Think about all that EQ2 promised... while its a good game, and KOS will suffice to keep my interest... a lot of promises made before the game went live were brokenVanguard WILL be the same and it will have its flaws, like every game out there<div></div>

Linkdead_Phoen

02-22-2006, 10:07 PM

<div></div><div>You're exactly right. no game can meet <strong><u>EVERY</u></strong> promise, and I'm sure there will be several flaws. I'm not trying to say it will be the greatest game ever, but I am trying to stop people from making horrible assumptions based on something they have never even played. Gaige says Vanguard sucks, isn't very fun, and is boring and tedious. Now how can he talk so much trash based on a game that he has never even experienced before?</div>

TheSummoned

02-22-2006, 10:21 PM

Anyone who says that Vanguard will be the best out there is either a fanboi or an idiot...Every game will have it's audience and Vanguard certainly has it's. Even SWG who many think was a total fluke has had a great deal of players with a pation towards the game. You can't say that SWG failed because it had a lack of players (was the devs screwing around).Every game is cattered towards a certain crowd, WoW and to an extent EQ2 being more of a casual aproach, EQ and Vanguard more to the gamers that can invest more time in the game. Noone can say for certain that a game sucks because that subjective opinion. I would rather hear the good sides and the bad sides from an objective review and base my opinion on that. I don't mind long walks around the landscape, done a lot of walking in SWG in search for rare tames. Camping for named quest mobs in Vanguard is one thing I think they did right based on the description of it. And the game is only in beta 2, close to going to beta 3, it can change a lot from there.<div></div>

vladsamier1

02-23-2006, 12:03 AM

<div><div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div>Considering Vanguard and DDO suck, no.<hr></blockquote>1 of those games has requirements that are unreal on beta... radeon 9800pro is the lowest card that can run the game right now and thats if you like playing with 20fps tops....</div></div>

shaolen

02-23-2006, 08:03 PM

<div></div><p>Greetings Bruisers, just thought I would toss in my two cents on the topic. I am actually finding that my interest in the game has been rekindled with the release of KOS. I enjoy the sense of exploration that comes with new areas of adventure. In addition it appears that they are finally putting some decent leather drops in the game geared toward Bruisers/Monks that don't require a full raid to get. Yes the nerfs do suck, but it is a constantly evolving game so they are bound to happen. I just make adjustments to my play style accordingly. As long as I can still play the game and be effective I wont be going anywhere. As I found out with the Matrix Online the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.</p><p>For those that do chose to leave I wish them well, and I hope they find what they seek.</p>

Fromingo

02-24-2006, 01:24 AM

<div></div><div></div><div>I don't believe KoS was ever the cause of any lack of interest although I refuse to buy it if the server merged instability/lag issues are not fixed. Hell KoS will probably help with lag as people stop filling up old world and PoF content to go fill up KoS. I also realize that nerfs happen and you need to adjust having been through my share since day 1 of EQ1. However while they could get away with royally [Removed for Content] off their customers every few months on EQ1, EQ2 has too much competition. The devs better start realizing they need to be smarter, listen to players more and make changes with a scalpal not a chainsaw. Small changes to reach a balance over time are much better received than swinging hard one way then saying "oops too far" swing hard the other way "doh that's not right either"...</div><div> </div><div>And since EQ2's playerbase has drastically shrunk and after talking friends to give it a try again only to see them get annoyed and start leaving again, I'm starting to think it's not worth it anymore. If SOE hasn't realized that 'EverCrack' is no longer enough to keep subscribers alone then they probably never will. There's other crack sources out there now like 'WoWarCrack', 'CoCrackHeroes/Villians', 'GuildCrack', and many others plus new crack sources upcoming like 'Dungeons and Crackheads' or 'VanCrack' from the original creators of 'EverCrack'. </div><div> </div><div>Matrix Online was never Crack anything and their only positive was the innovative idea for interactive combat. If you want to do a grass is greener comparison at least try something that <strong>had</strong> grass on the other side. :smileywink:</div><p>Message Edited by Fromingo on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:27 PM</span></p>

DarkMirrax

02-25-2006, 03:12 PM

<div></div>I lost interest a while back when my monk leveled up but since my bruiser and my little defiler nope not losing interest and doubt i will , a lot of content to be explored in KoS for sure and im still doing a lot of T6 content so got a lot to keep me occupied with :smileyvery-happy:

DarkMirrax

02-25-2006, 03:13 PM

<div>Oh and Gaige DDO doesnt suck at all its just not EQ2</div>

Gaige

02-25-2006, 05:14 PM

<div></div><div></div>DDO is guild wars except it isn't fun and its not free.<p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:14 AM</span></p>

Owa

02-25-2006, 08:47 PM

<div></div><p><font size="4">I got the impression DDO was designed for people buying their first computer - but I haven't played the retail version so maybe they've made it a little more challenging by now.</font></p><p><font size="4">With regards to MMORPGs I agree with the sentiment that SOE are still operating under the assumption that people will stay with the game no matter what they change/nerf. Old habits dies hard. However, I also think they're not stupid and can see that both Guild Wars AND WoW have far more subscribers than the Everquest franchise now. If they could find some way to reverse that statistic I'm sure they would - but how to do so? I don't know and clearly no one at SoE does either. In its quest to find out what sort of game it is, EQ2 has [Removed for Content] too many people off too many times and is destined to be a niche product in the same way its predecessor has become.</font></p><p><font size="4">The 'fanbois' will stay and proclaim loudly to all who listen that EQ2 is great and everything else is for [Removed for Content]. The recipients of the regular nerfbat madness will look elsewhere until they can find something less aggravating. Unfortunately for SoE the neerfbattees are rapidly outnumbering the fanbois and it must be only a matter of time before EQ2 reaches an equilibrium of population where everyone who's going to leave has left. Sadly I also suspect that by this point everyone will be able to fit onto one PvP and one non-PvP server...</font></p><p><font size="4">I imagine the 'Legend of EQ2' will become a salutory lesson for future games designers and future MMORPGS will be much more sparing with their use of the nerfbat. I wonder how many ex-players have left because of real or percieved nerfs? My guess would be nearly all of them. That's not to say that nerfs /changes weren't/aren't necessary - but only that most people don't like 'em and aren't sufficiently motivated to keep putting up with them.</font></p><p><font size="4">So - like I said, I think nerfs might become a thing of the past - or at least a rarity rather than an occupational hazard. After all, this game cost a LOT of money to produce and even companies as large as Sony are not going to want to design games that lose customers so readily.</font></p>

Gaige

02-26-2006, 12:27 AM

<div></div><p>People say the same about every MMO, including EQ1... yet its still going strong.</p><p>Oh, and technically, Guild Wars doesn't have subscribers <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Owa

02-26-2006, 03:12 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><p>People say the same about every MMO, including EQ1... yet its still going strong.</p><p>Oh, and technically, Guild Wars doesn't have subscribers <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote><p><font size="4">Thanks for pointing out that technicality. That's the last time I'm gonna use a prose contraction. Oops... just used another two there. Oh dear.</font></p><p><font size="4">Anyway, you're right - I know people always go on about the same stuff regarding MMOs. My point is that SoE's efforts with EQ2 and SWG may well prove to be a turning point in MMO design - after all this genre is young yet and if you think that the way they're designed and maintained nowadays will not improve hugely over time then I've got an old black and white televison I can sell you...Saying that the current problems with MMOs are always going to happen and we'll always have to put up with them is like people saying that having to edit your autoexec.bat files before you can play games is part of playing PC games. Things change, computer enteratinment gets slicker and more user friendly. The next generation of MMORPGs will be better. </font></p><p><font size="4">And EQ1 isn't really going strong is it? What does going strong mean?</font></p>

Ladicav

02-26-2006, 08:19 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<div></div><p><font size="4">With regards to MMORPGs I agree with the sentiment that SOE are still operating under the assumption that people will stay with the game no matter what they change/nerf. Old habits dies hard. However, I also think they're not stupid </font></p><p><font size="3" color="#66ffcc">People stay until they work out one day that it is no longer really worth staying. I got to that point yesterday, after a few weeks of taking a step back and evaluating EQ2 as a whole. I found, EQ2, to me, does not measure up to the standard that I want from an online game. It is inconsequential of new expansions etc. I just feel nothing for the game. It should excite me, provoke me, make me want to jump in and play. If a game can do this, it will never want for subscribers. To me EQ2 <em><strong>never</strong></em> had that effect, even from day one. But I gave EQ2 over a year of my time and money, to give it a fair time to play and evaluate and the conclusion is still the same. It doesn't measure up to what I want from an online game. So I retired, yesterday without much fanfare. It's a good feeling.</font></p><p><font size="4">The 'fanbois' will stay and proclaim loudly to all who listen that EQ2 is great and everything else is for [Removed for Content]. </font></p><p><font size="3" color="#66ffcc">The truth is fanbois never make an objective evaluation of their surroundings. If I want an honest upfront opinion of an in game issue, any issue, a fanboi is the last person I would want input from. If SOE are on some perceived vigil to retain the fans and slowly weed out the rest then EQ2 is already doomed.</font></p><p><font size="4">I imagine the 'Legend of EQ2' will become a salutory lesson for future games designers and future MMORPGS will be much more sparing with their use of the nerfbat. </font></p><p><font size="3" color="#66ffcc">The only legend of EQ2 I walked away with is, that there is no legend of EQ2. In the end I found EQ2 to be extremely underwhelming and at times it was a complete schamozzal. Unlike it's original counterpart EQ1 which was exactly the opposite. I will always remember EQ1. Don't get me wrong, EQ1 had its fair share of problems, some of them were huge, but to me EQ1 has a lasting legacy whilst I will forget about EQ2 in a week.</font></p><p><font size="4">So - like I said, I think nerfs might become a thing of the past - or at least a rarity rather than an occupational hazard. After all, this game cost a LOT of money to produce and even companies as large as Sony are not going to want to design games that lose customers so readily.</font></p><hr></blockquote><p><font size="3" color="#66ffcc">I just feel the whole MMORPG scene right now at this point in time is in a massive slump. I'm not talking about across the board subscriptions, since many players pay and play because there just isn't anything better out there currently, and I guess I was one of them also for a while. I am talking about game quality or rather the lack of it. Who would switch if there was a vastly better alternative? I know I would, in a heartbeat. But that vastly better alternative does not exist yet and it may not for a while yet. So instead of kidding myself and saying I'm going to WoW because EQ2 sucks yada yada like I have seen so many posts before, I've decided I won't be playing any other MMORPGs at all, since they are all equally unimaginative and basically follow the same basic crap formula. I'm not counting on Vanguard to provide anything that is vastly different than what is or has been already in existance. </font></p><p><font color="#66ffcc"><font size="3">The next gaming company which will recieve my time and money will be the one that releases the next generation game, that adheres to a <em>high <strong>standard</strong></em>, both in game development, attention to details, improved customer service and overall playing satisfaction. It WILL happen eventually. I think gamers are starting to salivate for one. I know I have been for a while. The MMORPG market is so vast there is a boatload of money to be made, so much so that the first prudent gaming company that comes along and releases something really immersive with all the other plusses will be the one to scoop the pool and people will flock to it. As to when that will be, who knows. All I know is that neither EQ2, nor WoW nor Vanguard will be the candidates for this to happen.</font> </font></p>

Owa

02-26-2006, 11:26 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ladicav wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p><font size="3" color="#66ffcc">People stay until they work out one day that it is no longer really worth staying. I got to that point yesterday, after a few weeks of taking a step back and evaluating EQ2 as a whole. I found, EQ2, to me, does not measure up to the standard that I want from an online game. It is inconsequential of new expansions etc. I just feel nothing for the game. It should excite me, provoke me, make me want to jump in and play. If a game can do this, it will never want for subscribers. To me EQ2 <em><strong>never</strong></em> had that effect, even from day one. But I gave EQ2 over a year of my time and money, to give it a fair time to play and evaluate and the conclusion is still the same. It doesn't measure up to what I want from an online game. So I retired, yesterday without much fanfare. It's a good feeling.</font></p></blockquote><hr></blockquote><p><font size="4">You make some compelling points, but....</font></p><p><font size="4">Just on the off-chance I'm not too late, may I suggest you try PvP? You've got nothing to lose if you're going to be quitting anyway, and I'm having so much fun on Venekor (RP PvP server) I have to recomend you at least give it a go. I 've had KoS installed for a couple of days now but like you I just can't face trudging throught the next 10 levels right now. </font></p><p><font size="4"><em>However</em> -</font></p><p><font size="4">Running round CL and the Ruins etc dodging dastardly Qeynosians with my baby bruiser is a real blast, and more enjoyment than I've had in a very, very long time with this game. Maybe the novelty will wear off - but for now it's completely revitalised my interest. Also, not everyone is a teenage w.anker on the PvP server - which was a surprise, frankly.</font></p><p><font size="4">Owain the British Bruiser <font size="2">-'Fighting in Pub Car Parks Since 1987'</font></font></p>

Fromingo

02-27-2006, 12:11 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><p>People say the same about every MMO, including EQ1... yet its still going strong.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>If by still going strong they are on one of the lower rungs of subscriber bases then yes they going strong. Kind of like Weinerschnitzel. They are still a fast food, they still are able to stay in business and make a small profit however they are not one of the big boys like McDonalds, Taco Bell, etc..but hey they are "going strong". You just have to drive 15 miles to find one instead of pick up a rock and throw it in any direction. :smileywink:

ganjookie

02-27-2006, 12:42 AM

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Fromingo wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><p>People say the same about every MMO, including EQ1... yet its still going strong.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>If by still going strong they are on one of the lower rungs of subscriber bases then yes they going strong. Kind of like Weinerschnitzel. They are still a fast food, they still are able to stay in business and make a small profit however they are not one of the big boys like McDonalds, Taco Bell, etc..but hey they are "going strong". You just have to drive 15 miles to find one instead of pick up a rock and throw it in any direction. :smileywink:<hr></blockquote>Dude they just came out rith Roast beef Dogs sandwhichws and more!!! I dont know about your area, but in NOr Cal, we have about 10 of em in a 30 mi radius or so.</span></div>

Gaige

02-27-2006, 02:45 AM

<div></div>There are like 5 Wienerschnitzel's right next to my house, lol.

ganjookie

02-27-2006, 05:26 AM

Apparently one of them by my place used to sell illegal green smoking substances in teh drive thru, I got some on accident . I guess I ordered the "special" that night.<div></div>

DarkMirrax

02-27-2006, 02:27 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<p><font size="4"><em>However</em> -</font></p><p><font size="4">Running round CL and the Ruins etc dodging dastardly Qeynosians with my baby bruiser is a real blast, and more enjoyment than I've had in a very, very long time with this game. Maybe the novelty will wear off - but for now it's completely revitalised my interest. Also, not everyone is a teenage w.anker on the PvP server - which was a surprise, frankly.</font></p><p><font size="4">Owain the British Bruiser <font size="2">-'Fighting in Pub Car Parks Since 1987'</font></font></p><hr></blockquote>Totally agree with you , did all the human racial quests and got some great items aswell with my defiler .. having a blast with him !!!! most fun in a looooong time though TBH im loving KoS atm

Fromingo

02-28-2006, 01:17 AM

<div></div>I love Wienerschnitzel but I can pass 5-10 McDonalds on my way to one. If you have that many Wienerschnitzel's I bet you have easily 5 times as many McDonalds. However I hope you are just making a fun comment because if you seriously believe that Wienerschnitzel is a contender versus McDonalds or Taco Bell in terms of annual customers or income then I'd think you'd gotten pounded by a bruiser IRL. :smileytongue:

Ladicav

03-02-2006, 01:39 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>annaspider wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ladicav wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p><font size="3" color="#66ffcc">People stay until they work out one day that it is no longer really worth staying. I got to that point yesterday, after a few weeks of taking a step back and evaluating EQ2 as a whole. I found, EQ2, to me, does not measure up to the standard that I want from an online game. It is inconsequential of new expansions etc. I just feel nothing for the game. It should excite me, provoke me, make me want to jump in and play. If a game can do this, it will never want for subscribers. To me EQ2 <em><strong>never</strong></em> had that effect, even from day one. But I gave EQ2 over a year of my time and money, to give it a fair time to play and evaluate and the conclusion is still the same. It doesn't measure up to what I want from an online game. So I retired, yesterday without much fanfare. It's a good feeling.</font></p></blockquote><hr></blockquote><p><font size="4">You make some compelling points, but....</font></p><p><font size="4">Just on the off-chance I'm not too late, may I suggest you try PvP? You've got nothing to lose if you're going to be quitting anyway, and I'm having so much fun on Venekor (RP PvP server) I have to recomend you at least give it a go. I 've had KoS installed for a couple of days now but like you I just can't face trudging throught the next 10 levels right now. </font></p><p><font size="4"><em>However</em> -</font></p><p><font size="4">Running round CL and the Ruins etc dodging dastardly Qeynosians with my baby bruiser is a real blast, and more enjoyment than I've had in a very, very long time with this game. Maybe the novelty will wear off - but for now it's completely revitalised my interest. Also, not everyone is a teenage w.anker on the PvP server - which was a surprise, frankly.</font></p><p><font size="4">Owain the British Bruiser <font size="2">-'Fighting in Pub Car Parks Since 1987'</font></font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks for your input Annaspider. Truth is, to go back and PVP, I'd have to pay money again to play a game I don't regard reaches my standard of what an online game should be and I would be further paying for a game I feel absolutely nothing for. I didn't reach this decision lightly. Everyone has a train stop where they have to get off at, and this is mine. Been enjoyable trading opinions with you here and on the Guardian forums in recent months, you were always someone who could see both sides of a coin.</p><p>I'm glad you're having a blast and enjoying PVP.</p><p>Ladicav out.</p>