AGI? Does a 10% difference in avoidance equate to a 1.5k difference in mitigation?

[Tsunam]

<div></div><div>Curious to find others opinions on this, is agi becoming a waste of time to focus on?</div><div> </div><div>Grouped (on a raid) with a 60th monk, 60th zerker, dirge, fury and defiler. My agi was 418, some 204 higher than the monk and in excess of 250 higher than the zerker. The monk and i were both in offensive stance (both master1) the difference in avoidance, was 0.8%, same when we swapped to half stance and defensive stance. The zerker was in defensive stance and his avoidance was 3% lower, when i swapped to defensive stance it was 11% lower however his mitigation was over 1.5k ahead.</div><div> </div><div>So my questions are:</div><div> </div><div>1) at what point should i stop worrying about agi and focus on all out str/sta?</div><div>2) Why do we not get the same effect from grp buffs to our avoidance as plate tanks do, we have no way of closing the mitigation gap so surely we should maintain a wide avoidance gap. Seeing as SOE seem to want our dps to drop down and us become more pure tanking should there not be equity in this area. Yes we tank jsut fine in grps 99% of the time, against orange cons and certainly on orange con raid mobs we are extremely shakey</div><div> </div><div>Illl</div><div>Bruiser</div>

[TimUK]

<div></div><p>Now this is a great question, i dont know the answer, im not a hardcore player of the game anymore, but i know exactly what you mean, both the monk/bruiser have the bad side of the stick when it comes to the avoidance vs mitigation question</p><p> </p><p>Its been since LU13 that this has been true, im sure when i had 79% avoidance i was much better at tanking compared to my now 64.5%</p><p> </p><p>Most monks/bruisers dont recognise this problem yet, saying they can tank just fine, but the fact is no one can tank as good, when was the last time you saw someone above 72% avoidance? and if you did, thats one hell of a raid/group you got going</p><p> </p><p>The fact of the matter is, if there was a choice between a plate tank and us light armourers, the plate tank allways gets chosen first, we get left out, sometimes some people dont even regard us as tanks, i can remember one time when someone said "is the monk a healer"? omg [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lol</p><p> </p><p>I know its a bit off topic and doesnt answer your question  but its just my views of our class really</p>

[x0rtrun]

<div></div><div></div>I guess you didn't get the memo. AGI has been a waste of time since LU13.But to answer your questions...Lvl 1 (one) is the point to focus on str/sta wis agi/int In that order.And if you look at brawler VS warrior AAs you can start to get the picture that they don't really want us to be tanks anymore. We're offtanks and group tanks now at best. We fill in in a pinch, but for the big leagues you want the meatcans.<div></div><p><span class="date_text"></span><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by x0rtrunks on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:33 PM</span></p>

[narcoleptic_l]

<div></div><div>Ok so AGI sucks now... I've been out of the game for about 7-8 months and just now coming back, what is the point of wis/int for a melee toon now? I think I heard wis is for spell avoidance, but not sure</div>

[x0rtrun]

Check <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=24258">THIS </a>out.1 wis = 3 resistint affects proc damage.I won't go through all of it cause it's all in the link.<div></div>

[Tsunam]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the reply, maybe it was poorly phrased but i am aware of lack of usefullness of agi. I was indrectly asking given tat all fighters are supposed to be able to tank and the way avoidance buffs dont effect us in the way they do other tank classes should we not get some other effect from them e.g. mit boost.</p><p>To say we are dps on raids isnt my idea of funny</p><p> </p><p>Illl</p><p>Bruiser</p>

[x0rtrun]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tsunamai wrote:<div></div><p>To say we are dps on raids isnt my idea of funny</p><hr>Get used to it. With the AAs warriors will be raid tanks hands down, and we make be emergency off tanks. But basically we'll be tier4 dps with stupid weapon constraints.After all the talk of equal tanking they finally caved to guardian whining and gave them what they wanted, their godly tanking ability back.If you want to have a chance of tanking in T7 i suggest you respec to +hp%, take the stam traits, take crush resistance, get as much t6 fabled as you can, and focus on the AAs tht give +hp% and any avoidance increase.</blockquote></span></div>

[Sanamien]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>TimUK wrote:<div></div><p>when was the last time you saw someone above 72% avoidance? and if you did, thats one hell of a raid/group you got going</p></blockquote></span></div>10 mins ago on my 49 bruiser in a group with a vl 50 warden and a 48 defiler. 76% <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />But it still is a valid point...

[Vrnogracan]

Sanamien u would have had 76% avoidance because of the buffs but the biggest reason is because you were probobly 90%+ into 49, when u hit 50 that avoidance would have dropped significantly, and the same thing will happen when u get to 60, u will go down to your lowest avoidance and the thing is you cannot work it up except with buffs,ofcourse KoS will be out in a few days so the lvl thing applies again till 70 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TimUK wrote:<div></div><p>Most monks/bruisers dont recognise this problem yet, saying they can tank just fine, but the fact is no one can tank as good, when was the last time you saw someone above 72% avoidance? and if you did, thats one hell of a raid/group you got going</p><hr></blockquote><p>I've broken 80.1% avoidance with less than 250 agility before.</p><p>I'm routinely around 75/76% raiding.</p>

[shadyshab]

<div></div>I rememmber when your AGI actually meant something... Those were the days eh.<span><blockquote><hr>TimUK wrote:<p>The fact of the matter is, if there was a choice between a plate tank and us light armourers, the plate tank allways gets chosen first, we get left out, sometimes some people dont even regard us as tanks, i can remember one time when someone said "is the monk a healer"? omg [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lol</p><hr></blockquote></span>Most people Think we are 3rd string dps/tank. They would be right...I just tried tanking for poets group as a 58 monk with fabled/legendary gear and inq/templar/coercer/wiz/[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to back me up... Needless to say, i was worked to the bone. I could not survive first melee of boss mob. I have a good feeling a 58 Warrior/Crusader would do just fine in same situation.<div></div><p>Message Edited by shadyshabby on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:18 PM</span></p>

[PhozFa]

<span><blockquote><hr>shadyshabby wrote:<div></div>I rememmber when your AGI actually meant something... Those were the days eh.<span><blockquote><hr>TimUK wrote:<p>The fact of the matter is, if there was a choice between a plate tank and us light armourers, the plate tank allways gets chosen first, we get left out, sometimes some people dont even regard us as tanks, i can remember one time when someone said "is the monk a healer"? omg [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lol<font color="#ff0000"> A group that asks if a monk is a healer pry doesn't even know how to play thier own toon. Come on now i could understand if you made the mistake and think a monk is a DPS class but not a healer.</font></p><hr></blockquote></span>Most people Think we are 3rd string dps/tank. They would be right...I just tried tanking for poets group as a 58 monk with fabled/legendary gear and inq/templar/coercer/wiz/[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to back me up... Needless to say, i was worked to the bone. I could not survive first melee of boss mob. I have a good feeling a 58 Warrior/Crusader would do just fine in same situation. <font color="#ff0000">I was able to tank poets at 58 (in legendary) with 2 healers. The last guy was tricky and i died the first time but doable. Dunno how a 58 warrior would do. My SK at 58 pry did about as good except for it was freaking hard to hold agro on oranges without a warlock (dis debuffer in general)</font><div></div><p>Message Edited by shadyshabby on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:18 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ff0000">Most people (that i know, pick up groups are diffrent) when i'm on my bruiser would take me as a tank over a plate class. I wouldn't even say i'm one of the elite bruisers. Epic fights are a diffrent situation thou. I'm sure some bruisers tank epic fights but I'd much rather use my SK on those than my bruiser due to mit being more reliable. </font></span><div></div>

[Tsunam]

<div></div><p>Gaige,</p><p> </p><p>How does that avoidance help if u are raid tank on an orange mob? I assume u are at least 1.5k behind on mit to a plate tank. You also, i believe tank in defensive stance most times, i imagine not on orange cons as you would have trouble maintaing aggro due to low hits and not landing stuns?</p><p> </p><p>Illl</p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tsunamai wrote:<div></div><p>Gaige,</p><p>How does that avoidance help if u are raid tank on an orange mob? I assume u are at least 1.5k behind on mit to a plate tank. You also, i believe tank in defensive stance most times, i imagine not on orange cons as you would have trouble maintaing aggro due to low hits and not landing stuns?</p><p>Illl</p><hr></blockquote><p>Avoidance works... although not huge.  I've avoided hits from 65+++x4 and higher mobs before but I do tend to get my head knocked around more.</p><p>Usually when I'm tanking orange epics I'm around 10,200+ HP, 3k+ mit and 75%+ avoidance and then I try to get over 5k of whatever resist I need.</p><p>I've found this setup and 3 healers (just like any MT group, though I've done it with less) makes it pretty manageable for the healing team to keep me up honestly.  I would say its not any more or less hard than keeping up a plate on most encounters. </p><p>Healers just have to realize that to heal brawlers you need to be proactive instead of reactive.  They need to assume we're going to get hit and heal prior to that to avoid the streaks.  You'll see most good healers doing that on any kind of tank against orange cons though, since they skew the avoid/mit balance so much.</p><p>As for the stances... I normally start off in offensive with tsunami/ward up.  When those are about to drop I'll either switch to balanced/defensive depending on the mob we're fighting.  Although with a warden and my gear I can easily top 1300 atk in defensive stance which makes hitting orange cons pretty easy, cept maybe the 68s on 4th floor PPR where I use offensive almost entire fight.</p>

[Vorham]

<div></div><p>yeah its true about the pro-active thing, even the best tank will drop vs the really hard hitters if they aren't planning ahead and paying attention</p><p>against mobs like higher level epics id probably rather have the 1.5k mit, just to make it a bit smoother for the healers since you ARE going to get hit</p><p>though for lesser mobs or lower level mobs avoidance can be better than mit, zero dmg taken vs lesser dmg</p><p>like most things in EQ2 it seems situational, depends on what your killing</p>

[Nophie]

for once in my whole time posting i gotta agree with gaige and previous poster made a valid point....way i see it is we need balance but ive raid tanked many times cause i got pure agi equiptment going off into str then sta...........and to get over mid prob int AA final 1k+ mid i think bout balances it when i got 30% hp which is couple hits well then that 1k mid gives healers enough time to heal us back up plus self heal also helps cause it gives mad hate and heals (ive tested) so point i am trying to make is it is totaly possible to tank and be near equiv mid and more avoid and assuming your not talking about uhhh cant think right now but w/e spirit and w/e scaring again i cant think got KoF updating if we use those and like i said assuming we dont have em on switch em on and your very close<div></div>