All stance CHANGED??

[Skyr]

<div>How come  the Magmatic fist doesnt have the same spec as it normaly has?  Like if you do not have any weapon equiped, it does much more damage??? Someone saw a thread with any changes made to our stance?? even our half and half stance got nerfed, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with that??</div><div> </div><div>Skyrak Lvl 60 bruiser</div>

[Danter]

<div></div><p>Read the rest of the threads in this forum, it's already been discussed.</p><p>Obviously, though, if you just noticed this change now, then why do you care?</p><p>Kald, 60 Bruiser Permafrost</p>

[Zolragas]

<div></div><div></div><p>We should all care cause they made it a [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] aa ability.  We should all care cause its a lazy way to fix unarmed combat.  We should all care cause not all of us are running around swinging legendary or fabled weapons.</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=13238">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=13238</a></p><p> </p><p>link for discussion about stance proc change</p><p>Message Edited by Zolragason on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:46 AM</span></p>

[Quicksilver74]

<div>The AA line for unarmed fighting is terrible.   AA lines for weapon types are supposed to be for those who like to use a certain weapon type... giving them the ability to specialize in that type, IE Duel wield, 2handed staff, etc....</div><div> </div><div>  However theres no point to fight unarmed, and there hasn't been for quite some time.   aside of the fact that we loose massive stat points by removing weapons, we can't hit epic mobs with fists, and the damage is terrible.   the only redeeming factor, was the extra amage proc  of engulf which would deal some nice damage. </div><div> </div><div> Now if they changed fistwraps to count as bare fisted... things  woudl be great!</div>

[Danter]

<div></div><p>Anyone can get legendary weapons considering Cobalt and Ironwood sell for like 35g on my server.</p><p>If you used fist in combat, you were gimping your toon and doing everyone else in your group a disservice.</p><p>Here's why:</p><p>Fists provide no stats, have a damage rating worse than treasured, and are one handed.  Fists delay time is about 1.5s.</p><p>Fists do not have gleaming strike.</p><p>Using Fists:</p><p>1.5/3.0 * 10% = 5% chance to proc 1k Engulf unarmed</p><p>1.5/3.0 * 25% = 12.5% chance to proc Quarrel</p><p>Using an imbued cesti:</p><p>2.0/3.0 * 10% = 6.67% chance to proc 400 Engulf</p><p>2.0/3.0 * 25% = 16.67% chance to proc Quarrel</p><p>2.0/3.0 * 5% = 3.35% chance to proc gleaming strike</p><p>You also gain a lot of stats, the ability to dual wield,  the ability to hit nameds and epics, and a much, much higher damage rating.</p><p>Now if you're still [Removed for Content] about unarmed combat, then SOE has come to rescue with our fantastic strength AA line, so feel free to be the only brawler to max it out.</p><p>-Kald, 60 Bruiser Permafrost</p><p> </p>

[Junaru]

Yeah if you are running around unarmed you either "want" to or need to find a broker. There is NO reason why everyone can't have atleast legendary weapons.<div></div>

[Zolragas]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Danterus wrote:<div></div><p>Anyone can get legendary weapons considering Cobalt and Ironwood sell for like 35g on my server.</p><p>If you used fist in combat, you were gimping your toon and doing everyone else in your group a disservice.</p><p>Here's why:</p><p>Fists provide no stats, have a damage rating worse than treasured, and are one handed.  Fists delay time is about 1.5s.</p><p>Fists do not have gleaming strike.</p><p>Using Fists:</p><p>1.5/3.0 * 10% = 5% chance to proc 1k Engulf unarmed</p><p>1.5/3.0 * 25% = 12.5% chance to proc Quarrel</p><p>Using an imbued cesti:</p><p>2.0/3.0 * 10% = 6.67% chance to proc 400 Engulf</p><p>2.0/3.0 * 25% = 16.67% chance to proc Quarrel</p><p>2.0/3.0 * 5% = 3.35% chance to proc gleaming strike</p><p>You also gain a lot of stats, the ability to dual wield,  the ability to hit nameds and epics, and a much, much higher damage rating.</p><p>Now if you're still [Removed for Content] about unarmed combat, then SOE has come to rescue with our fantastic strength AA line, so feel free to be the only brawler to max it out.</p><p>-Kald, 60 Bruiser Permafrost</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ff3300">Anyone can get legendary weapons considering Cobalt and Ironwood sell for like 35g on my server</font>Umn and at what lvl was 35g  cheap?  For people just starting out in the game it provided a viable means of having a decent weapon while focusing money on ca upgrades.  Not to mention those that play more than one toon.</p><p><font color="#ff3300">Fists provide no stats, have a damage rating worse than treasured, and are one handed.  Fists delay time is about 1.5s.</font></p><p>That was the whole point of having the proc do double damage.  OMG 1.5 as comapared to what 1.4?  Yeah unarmed was slower but I did more damage unarmed than I ever did with weapons under legendary.  Main reason was the proc the other was I did more damage per hit.  I may of hit slower but the combined proc and damage out did under legendary weapons.  I never tried legendary imbued till after the update so i cant compare.  I did and had on many ocasion compared treasured to unarmed and unarmed blew it away.  The combination of stance proc with stun and our multi hit line was devistating.  You can not tell me that at lvl 30 using treasued weapons you are going to do 1k damage in that combo.  Sorry if im using "low" lvl examples but in varsoons I would drop triple up clay golems about 25% faster than if i had regular crafted or treasued weapons.  The proc made that much of a difference. I two box a druid with my bruiser and I tested this a lot because I wanted the stats that weapons gave.  I just didn't want to give up the damage. I would love to test legendary imbued but since its gone totally there is no point.</p><p>I never asserted that you did more damage unarmed than legendary especially imbued.  I always noted that you are limited to what you could attack with it.  I was perfectly fine with how it worked.  there should be limitions on how powerful and how useful something that powerful should be.  I have to ask the  question though.  What now seperates us from the monks?  What is our one kick [Removed for Content] ability?.  I have no knowledge of what skills they get besides the fact that they get haste in thier stance and invis.</p><p>All in all its a mute point.  SOE will do whatever it has to do to make a game sell.  If they need to keep changing game play to fit expansion so be it.  Nothing new from SOE.  At least they do change stuff.  As far as whining about it.  What else are these boards for?  You have to let out frustration some how.  Main point for the "few" people that are upset about the change is the fact that we were comfortable in how we played our class and without warning that way of playing is gone.  We can all be cookie cutter so we are not doing a "disservice" to our groups.  YAY. I'll be sure to be wearing my AQ gear too.</p><p>Message Edited by Zolragason on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:41 PM</span></p>

[Junaru]

"Umn and at what lvl was 35g  cheap?  For people just starting out in the game it provided a viable means of having a decent weapon while focusing money on ca upgrades.  Not to mention those that play more than one toon."By the time you can use Cobalt or Ironwood, 35g is easy to come back. Besides the fact that you could just harvest it yourself and make your own weapons. That = free ya know.Sorry but there is no excuse not to have legendary or better weapons in the game.<div></div>

[Zolragas]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Junaru wrote:Yeah if you are running around unarmed you either "want" to or need to find a broker. There is NO reason why everyone can't have atleast legendary weapons.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Do you people forget what it was like when you first started?  You can't tell me that at lvl 30 first time ever playuing through the game you can afford to drop 1 plat for two weapons and still upgrade your CA's to at least adept 1.  OMG did he just say adept 1.  Yeah not all of us rush through the lvls or craft like mad men to come up with money.  Pricing is not reflected by what the "average income" is for that lvl when talking about rares.  Sure its fine if you are going to twink a toon out but not as a first timer. 

[Zolragas]

<div>Oh and you if you want to get really out of wack look at your att rate  "display bug" when going from unarmed, to just secondary, then just primary, then both prime and secondary equipped.  Not to mention watching your avoidance chance  as you progress in your lvl.  That was my fav.  At the end of a lvl you will have your highest avoidance then you ding and you drop down.  Nice "display" bugs.  Guess I'm expecting too much from a game that was rushed out to beat the realease of WoW.  Like that game was worth not completing this one for.  BTW isn't WoW coming out with an expansion soon?  Tiem to rush another one through the door..............................................</div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div></div><p>My first time soloing in Sinking Sands (late 40s, early 50s zone) I was making about 75g a day on average. That's just random crap from mobs, like the orcs, goblins and scorpions.</p><p>And you don't have to be a twink to kill solo mobs decently fast. And it's not like I knew where to get quick cash, or was exploiting anything...</p><p> </p><p>Seriously.. for tier 6, 35g is NOTHING. Cobalt still sells for about a plat on my server, but ironwood was down to less than 50g. Even a plat is easy enough... just solo for a few days, 3-4 hours a day and you've got yourself two t6 Legendary weapons.</p><p>As for the 30s, that's the PRIME level to finish HQ's... fully half of them are perfect right in the low 30s. And I know as a Bruiser, you won't be able to use 99% of them, so you can just sell for cash.</p><p> </p><p>Unless you are just sitting there grinding off mobs that give no loot drops so you can level, then you are going to practically fall into cash in some shape or another.</p><p>I'm playing on test right now since the servers are always coming down right when I want to play. Not twinked at all, and I have 5 legendary pieces for my lvl 18 noob, 3 of em harvested (ie. FREE).</p><p>There's really no room to complain.. you practically have to actively try NOT to.</p>

[Zolragas]

<div></div><p>Sell my HQ's but they look so nice in my room........ oh and tonight was the first night i got to play around with legendary imbued and umn well i still think how it was before lu 19 i did more damage.  With that said it should of been changed.  I would proc a lot more than what I proc both from stance and imbue.  I could almost garentee i would proc 2x off of 100 hand slap.  Then at least 2 or 3 more times during te fight if mob lived long enough.  Mind you i don't play with a full group so mobs would last a refresh of 100 hand slap but not much and depending on con.  As far as the money goes sure if you sell your hq's and did some named farming for masters but untill you get higher lvl its still a little on the pricy side when you factor in everything else you need to upgrade.  Could be server too but when i totally stopped playing on guk to play on perma prices seemed to be evening out.  For a while guk was high.  As i said before just frustating when you get settled into a play style and then have it changed or in this case taken away. Such is the life of an online game.  You can never be certain of anything for it will always change with time.  </p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zolragason wrote:<div></div><p>Sell my HQ's but they look so nice in my room........ oh and tonight was the first night i got to play around with legendary imbued and umn well i still think how it was before lu 19 i did more damage.  With that said it should of been changed.  I would proc a lot more than what I proc both from stance and imbue.  I could almost garentee i would proc 2x off of 100 hand slap.  Then at least 2 or 3 more times during te fight if mob lived long enough.  Mind you i don't play with a full group so mobs would last a refresh of 100 hand slap but not much and depending on con.  As far as the money goes sure if you sell your hq's and did some named farming for masters but untill you get higher lvl its still a little on the pricy side when you factor in everything else you need to upgrade.  Could be server too but when i totally stopped playing on guk to play on perma prices seemed to be evening out.  For a while guk was high.  As i said before just frustating when you get settled into a play style and then have it changed or in this case taken away. Such is the life of an online game.  You can never be certain of anything for it will always change with time.  </p><p><font color="#ff0000">NEVER SETTLE INTO A STYLE OF PLAY SOE WONT ALLOW IT :smileywink: Just Remeber it will all come good in the end we are moors chosen</font></p><hr></blockquote>

[Reposa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Quicksilver74 wrote:<div>The AA line for unarmed fighting is terrible.   AA lines for weapon types are supposed to be for those who like to use a certain weapon type... giving them the ability to specialize in that type, IE Duel wield, 2handed staff, etc....</div><div> </div><div>  However theres no point to fight unarmed, and there hasn't been for quite some time.   aside of the fact that we loose massive stat points by removing weapons, <font color="#ffcc00">we can't hit epic mobs with fists</font>, and the damage is terrible.   the only redeeming factor, was the extra amage proc  of engulf which would deal some nice damage. </div><div> </div><div> Now if they changed fistwraps to count as bare fisted... things  woudl be great!</div><hr></blockquote>Yes, we can hit epic mobs with fists.  It isn't really worth it.. but we can hit EVERY mob with fists.  Brawlers are the only class that has a "fist" skill.  We can hit epic mobs fine with no wepons, and surprisingly, it's pretty decent damage.</span><div></div>

[RustyB]

<div></div>since when?  ever since I've been killing epics  we've needed no worse than Legendary

[Skyr]

<div>Tell me how i can hit epic with my fist cause i never been able to hit them...</div>

[RustyB]

<div></div>you can't....   come to think of it  you couldn't even hit herioc named barefist. 

[Junaru]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Zolragason wrote:<blockquote><hr>Junaru wrote:Yeah if you are running around unarmed you either "want" to or need to find a broker. There is NO reason why everyone can't have atleast legendary weapons.<hr></blockquote>Do you people forget what it was like when you first started?  You can't tell me that at lvl 30 first time ever playuing through the game you can afford to drop 1 plat for two weapons and still upgrade your CA's to at least adept 1.  OMG did he just say adept 1.  Yeah not all of us rush through the lvls or craft like mad men to come up with money.  Pricing is not reflected by what the "average income" is for that lvl when talking about rares.  Sure its fine if you are going to twink a toon out but not as a first timer. <hr></blockquote>What are you talking about? My Monk is L48 and is my highest level toon. I have no problems making enough money to have full rare crafted armor and weapons. No top of that a good 80% of my useable CA's are master I. My crafting toon is a provisional(L44) and makes crap money. I mainly just make for myself and guildies.As someone else stated about, in SS you can clear a plat or close to it in a day. Sorry but unless you level 3 times aday you will have enough money to guy crafted weapons.Again there is NO reason why you shouldn't have atleast </span>legendary <span>weapons. And for the record if you are using crap weapons and upgrading your CA's to Adept I. Don't. You will get more out of good weapons then you will upgrading from App I to Adept I..</span></div>

[Zolragas]

<div><blockquote><hr>Junaru wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Zolragason wrote:<blockquote><hr>Junaru wrote:Yeah if you are running around unarmed you either "want" to or need to find a broker. There is NO reason why everyone can't have atleast legendary weapons.<hr></blockquote>Do you people forget what it was like when you first started?  You can't tell me that at lvl 30 first time ever playuing through the game you can afford to drop 1 plat for two weapons and still upgrade your CA's to at least adept 1.  OMG did he just say adept 1.  Yeah not all of us rush through the lvls or craft like mad men to come up with money.  Pricing is not reflected by what the "average income" is for that lvl when talking about rares.  Sure its fine if you are going to twink a toon out but not as a first timer. <hr></blockquote>What are you talking about? My Monk is L48 and is my highest level toon. I have no problems making enough money to have full rare crafted armor and weapons. No top of that a good 80% of my useable CA's are master I. My crafting toon is a provisional(L44) and makes crap money. I mainly just make for myself and guildies.As someone else stated about, in SS you can clear a plat or close to it in a day. Sorry but unless you level 3 times aday you will have enough money to guy crafted weapons.Again there is NO reason why you shouldn't have atleast </span>legendary <span>weapons. And for the record if you are using crap weapons and upgrading your CA's to Adept I. Don't. You will get more out of good weapons then you will upgrading from App I to Adept I..</span></div><hr></blockquote>I was mainly focusing on the under 40 crowd. I understand that as you get higher lvl prices lvl out for income.  But at 30th lvl to drop 60g-1p on a weapon was a waste when you could go bear-fisted. (I still think I did more damage without weapons but can't back up that claim)  Same goes for buying above adept 1.  Why spend 30+g on a CA that will get upgraded in a days play time. (day= 24 hours played).  Lets put it this way; at lvl 35 you are justifying having spent 1p on weapons, another 3p on CA's, and close to another 5p on armor if you are just going legendary. That's 9p spent just half way through the 30's.  It was not and is still not feasible to do.  Thats almost as bad as buying any CA upgrade pre 20's with maybe the exception of taunts.  You just lvl too fast to get any return on the money spent.  Now this may be a good case for inflated prices on items under 40 but thats another topic and this one has gone way off its orginal post.  As far as I'm conserned I've vented and thats the end of it.  I've played eq2 since release with a few month breaks and played eq1 for 5 years.  I'm used to getting nerfed and especially with this game, watching things get drasticly changed around.  A lot has changed since launch and a lot will change in the future.  It's the nature of the beast.</div>

[Vorham]

next raid im going to try unarmed, if it lands im going to crap my pants with quasi-gleenot cuz unarmed rocks, it doesnt, but because that means SOE thought outside their little paradigm box<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div>Nope Tried Bare Fists on Drayek and not one hit landed , tried it on a named mob and i got a few hits in :smileyvery-happy:

[Zolragas]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>RustyBallz wrote:<div></div>you can't....   come to think of it  you couldn't even hit herioc named barefist. <hr></blockquote>You could depending on lvl pre lu 19.  If I understand the change now we can hit anything unarmed unless it requires legendary or better.  As I have always stated I'm basing this off my experience in the mid 30's pre lu 19.  I know in SH for instance you could hit every named there cept the hulking lizard or whaterever it was called.  I would say at  30 a little less than half of the named you ran into would of been immune and tats being generous on the immune side.  So blanket statements don't work you have to take into consideration the entire lvl range.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div></div><p>Hmmm.. as of the patch on the 25th, it says this:</p><p>- Lower quality weapons and bare fists can now hit epic targets.</p><p>And they took out the effect on the first ability of the Strength line that decreases their magical rating. So it looks like they are trying to make unarmed a more viable option. To what end, I have no clue.. since it would give us quite an advantage if it becomes an equal option PRIOR to AAs (don't have to spend money on weapons).</p><p>I think the lack of stats and proc will always be an issue though... they'd have to make the damage rating on unarmed phenominal in order to counter that. Or give some other inherent benefit (like riposte from all directions, etc).</p><p> </p><p>Question about the scaling of some of the AAs. To anyone who actually tested the Strength line on beta (or who's willing to check it out now), how does the Double Attack and +DPS% increase with ranks? It's not really +20% DPS per rank is it? That'd catch my attention.. +160% DPS with 96% chance to double attack... and can always hit epics.</p><p>It's gotta be just a flat +20% DPS and just the double attack % that increases, right?</p>