Proc changes on beta

[Danter]

<div>Saw this on the Ranger forums that this got put into Beta:</div><div> </div><div><span class="headline">Beta Update Notes : February 14, 2006<i> 2/14/2005 8:15 pm</i></span>*** Combat ***- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack.</div><div> </div><div>If this goes live, it's a pretty big nerf to our DPS.  Rangers probably get affected more than we do, but we're right behind them, if not side by side.</div><div> </div><div>This will affect Quarrel, Engulf, and the weapon procs on Savage Blows and Crushing Fury.</div><div> </div><div>Now I see absolutely no point in ever using a 2h weapon over dual wielding, even with 3.8s delay imbued great flails.  With Monk's new level 65 CA, I wouldn't be surprised if they out DPS'd us now, either.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>-Kald, 60 Bruiser Permafrost</div>

[Ansla-S]

???This is a serious kick in the groin....if it goes live that is.

[Sirlutt]

yeah huge nerf to ranger DPS with this.. we rely on our poison/offensive buff/weapon procs for our damage.I think I see the way for them to realign the DPS tiers, to put the wizzies back on top... as usualy its via nerf's, not improving lacking classes.<div></div>

[Danter]

<div></div><p>This will also nerf our AoE aggro which already kind of sucks along with our single target aggro, so it's a double kick to the nuts.  I agree that we were overpowered in holding aggro on yellow cons and below on single targets, but we can't afford to lose any AoE aggro.</p><p>-Kald, 60 Bruiser Permafrost</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<div>guys... I thought you all knew.....</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>   We have AA's coming out soon.... Sony has to nerf the hell out of us so that when we get our AAs were back up to normal.  so this way we THINK were awesome. </div><div> </div><div>Thinking back.... you remember pre-LU13(DoF) when Intimidate Master 1 coudl keep any epic mezzed almost indefinetley?   SIgh...... those were the days!</div>

[Cornbread Muffin]

<div></div><p>But wait, there's more! Blackguard has also said that weapon delay will no longer calculate proc rate based on weapon delay, but will instead use the casting time of the CA.</p><p>So, where before (using 1.5DW weapons and 3.8s 2h weapons respectively) a CA would use these formulas:</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p>(1.5/3.0)*proc% = .5 * listed proc percentage (So, 5% for engulf, 2.5% for imbues, etc.)(3.8/3.0)*proc% = 1.26 * listed proc percentage (So, 12.6% for engulf, 6.3% for imbues, etc.)</p></blockquote><p>They will now us casting time (.5 seconds for most, 2 seconds for AEs) so a CA would use these formulas:</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p>(0.5/3.0)*proc% = .16 * listed proc percentage (So, 1.6% for engulf, .83% for imbues, etc.)(2.0/3.0)*proc% = .66 * listed proc percentage (So, 6.6% for engulf, 3.3% for imbues, etc.)</p></blockquote><p></p><hr><p>So...this sucks. I wish they would just make it so CAs used the baseline proc rate, which is 3.0 right now. So a 10% proc would have a 10% chance of going off on a CA.</p><p></p>

[Junaru]

You are reading that wrong. Auto-attack will still be based off weapon delay. Buffs and Applied that normally proc off CA's will now be based off the CA cast times.The reason for this change is cause Ranger would put a 7 second delay bow in their range slot and spam CA's since their CA's only have 1 to 2 second delay they could spam like normal classes BUT each time they did a CA (only taking 1 to 2 seconds to cast) they were proccing based off a 7 second delay weapon. Basically each time a Ranger used a CA he had a 75% change to proc poison regardless of how long or short his cast times were.The only chance that effect the Brawler class is the only proccing off the 1st swing of a multi swing CA's. Which really isn't a big deal since you will proc the rest on your next swings.<div></div>

[x0rtrun]

I'm not worried about these changes at all. This is the way I expected things to work, and it finally makes sense. We were basically getting DPS for free last time, and certain weapons had advantages they shouldn't have had.The only thing I disagree with is multi-attack CAs only procing once. I'd rather that each hit of the CA used up one charge of the proc. This would then leave us with some nice burst DPS for having to peel off a mob.<div></div>

[neon_24]

<div>DMAN there goes Storming fists and Savage Blows i loved that!!!!11</div>

[Cornbread Muffin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Junaru wrote:You are reading that wrong. Auto-attack will still be based off weapon delay. Buffs and Applied that normally proc off CA's will now be based off the CA cast times.The reason for this change is cause Ranger would put a 7 second delay bow in their range slot and spam CA's since their CA's only have 1 to 2 second delay they could spam like normal classes BUT each time they did a CA (only taking 1 to 2 seconds to cast) they were proccing based off a 7 second delay weapon. Basically each time a Ranger used a CA he had a 75% change to proc poison regardless of how long or short his cast times were.The only chance that effect the Brawler class is the only proccing off the 1st swing of a multi swing CA's. Which really isn't a big deal since you will proc the rest on your next swings.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>No, I've got it right I just think we're not connecting as to what I am trying to say. Autoattack is still the same, but where a CA would previously use the weapon delay (as noted in my first set of stats) it now uses the CA cast time (as noted in my second set of stats).</p><p>So the % chance that we will proc off of a CA goes down significantly. I did a calculation of the damage M1 Blistering Fists (T7) adds and it worked out to 8.6 damage added per CA. That's pretty crappy if you ask me.</p><p> </p>

[x0rtrun]

Yeah, it is pretty lame that the chance to proc will be lowered so dramatically for CAs now, since they reduced casting time so drastically.<div></div>

[Temvaria]

<div></div>Argh!  :smileymad:

[Vorham]

<div></div><div>this annoys me... not like our procs were ever that much dps but they still keep getting nerfed because of other classes</div><div> </div><div>the advantage of our procs was that they could proc on combat arts, where monks have constant high haste for autoattack... our procs dont work on ranged attack, now we cant proc on the offhand, multistrikes only proc 1 time, and combat arts will have extremely reduced chance to even proc</div><div> </div><div>why dont they just get rid of our procs and turn them into some +dps on our stances like monks get with haste</div>

[TheSummoned]

<span><blockquote><hr>Quicksilver74 wrote:<div>guys... I thought you all knew.....</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>   We have AA's coming out soon.... Sony has to nerf the hell out of us so that when we get our AAs were back up to normal.  so this way we THINK were awesome. </div><div> </div><div>Thinking back.... you remember pre-LU13(DoF) when Intimidate Master 1 coudl keep any epic mezzed almost indefinetley?   SIgh...... those were the days!</div><hr></blockquote>Yea... /sighAnd with the 30 training AE taunt we could fear them too.</span><div></div>

[Voliere]

Sadly no matter how many people complain I still see this going into effect. To compensate allot, of spells and CA's (and items) proc rates need to be increased as this will lower the damage of so MANY classes. Remember the off hand change? You would be hard pressed to find ANYONE on the forums that thought removing the chance to proc abilities with your off hand a good idea. And still it went into effect. I remain optomistic of the Devs, but certain things really weigh on my doubts of how much attention they pay to the player base. I mean when certain things are unanimously disliked why do they still go into effect?I agree with the ranger they were getting some rather insane procs with their bows, but was making procs based on casting speed the best idea for a fix? Heck most CA's for anyone that does meele have 1/2 second cast times. Which will in turn give them horrendously low proc rates! The only combat abilities meele's will have that will maintain the 10% proc rate is the universal 3 second aoe CA's. But really, I dont know why im typing this. I wont say they need to change our AA's. I just wont say anything. Because what good has ever come from it?<p>Message Edited by Voliere on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:02 AM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div></div>Im only a noob bruiser but the 1 proc pr ca rule seems pretty bad, i have problems as it is holding ae aggro and if i cant get roughhousing procs on mobs from savage blows and bone crusher, not to forget ancient flame and engulf procs, its gonna be alot harder. And it seems like a big blow to dps to me, i get alot of procs on savage blows and crushing fury from things. Mainly the reason i love the rgf is this. Its great for holding aggro with all the procs helping.

[Vorham]

<div></div>yeah its a bad change... pretty much kills our extra stance damage.after LU13 it was like this:  Monks get sweet haste, works for every autoattack                                                                                      Bruis ers get procs, less reliable, not workin on ranged attacks.. can proc several times in row if get luckySince then we've lost the ability to proc on offhand attacks... now our combat art chance is getting hosed... 1.7% chance for a proc multi-strike or not... compared to our monk brothers we are basically losing our stance dmg unless they drastically up the % to procon the stances which they wont... surprising there hasn't been more of an outcry among bruisers about this change<div></div><p>Message Edited by Vorham on <span class="date_text">02-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:58 AM</span></p>

[Ge]

<div></div>I totally agree with you guys.  Trying to clarify same thing in: In-Testing feedback.  <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=48901">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=48901</a> .  Basically, long time ago, it goes from nice and easy straight % per hit (as advertised), too now where procs chances are nerfed into almost nill (no offhand proc, once per trigger [not per hit], normalized off 3 second trigger [instead of per hit].  I understand long time ago the "need" to make dual wields not as uber as 2-handers because of x2 % chance to proc (basically because of those who couldnt dual-wield..? Lack of variety..?) BUT jezhaus, this whole thing with behind-the-scenes proc calculations is nuts and over complicated.  Is it just me, or doesnt it make sense that every time any weapon hits you it should proc whatever effect is attached to that item (and your melee effects)?  I think this whole line of balancing/nerfing procs came from that initial change (3 second trigger compare) and now changes are at the point of affecting everyone that trys and procs something uneccessarily.  They need make procs less prevalent in game, ie change them to other effects (since apparrently they are unbalancing the game so much) OR at least change the descriptions in items to reflect actual proc rates (which would be depressing once you saw it).  This is what I am seeing here.  

[Fromingo]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>x0rtrunks wrote:I'm not worried about these changes at all. This is the way I expected things to work, and it finally makes sense. We were basically getting DPS for free last time, and certain weapons had advantages they shouldn't have had.The only thing I disagree with is multi-attack CAs only procing once. I'd rather that each hit of the CA used up one charge of the proc. This would then leave us with some nice burst DPS for having to peel off a mob.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Completely agree.  Stop the lazy programming.  Fix so you don't get extra free procs but multiple hit CA's shouls still be able to use up one proc.