Thundering Fists working as intended?

[Bootstwadd]

<div>Is it?  Rolled a noob Bruiser, just got this skill, and nowhere in the description does it say that it's charge/use based.</div><div> </div><div>Yet in my maintained spells area it's telling me 5 charges remain after I cast it...and yes, after I hit the mob 5 times, it's gone.</div><div>Is this how it's meant to work?  Cause the 5 charges line in the maintained window looks like it was just tossed in there.</div><div> </div><div>Or, is it because it's only App I at the moment that it sucks so bad.</div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><div>Yep Working as intended 5 Charges hitting for x amount of damage , All the Fist upgrades work in exactly the same way and yea it might suck but it does add a little extra damage and TBH i've allways got it up before i pull but thats just me ..</div>

[Bootstwadd]

<div></div><p>Ahhh. okee.  Could just be the description that's screwed then...under duration it says "until cancelled"...whereas it should probably say "5 procs" or "5 charges" ...</p>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>The description is a little 'iffy' but this is working as intended.  And Bruisers as of LU19 Thundering Fists no longer stacks with Storming Fists <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Storm_Runner]

<div></div>I've got a newby bruiser as well (just hit level 13) and was wondering about Heated Fists.  The description says that this is "until canceled" and is our offensive stance.  Thing is...in the maintained window it looks like it's on a 15 minute timer.  Which is correct?  I can't believe our offensive stance is on a 15 minute timer.  It would kind of defeat the purpose of it being a stance.

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>Its not its a bug.When you first put it on it will say "Until Canceled" or whatever.However, if you zone (bug been happening since lu1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> it will "pretend" to be on a 12-15minute timer.After the time is up, the skill is still active though.  And their is no recharge so if for some unknown *bug* happens you can just take it down and put it back on.

[Moorgard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Boombahyay wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yet in my maintained spells area it's telling me 5 charges remain after I cast it...and yes, after I hit the mob 5 times, it's gone.</DIV> <DIV>Is this how it's meant to work?  Cause the 5 charges line in the maintained window looks like it was just tossed in there. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Though the prose description may not be the clearest, it will last for five hits or until you cancel the buff. Not that you'd ever cancel it, but technically you could.</P> <P>I might as well point out that a change I warned folks of long ago is coming to this spell line. Currently if you have this buff active and use a mulit-attack combat art (such as Rapid Swings), you will get a proc on every hit that lands--even if it lands more than five times. This trick is used by bruisers to do extra damage on AE attacks, but I pointed out around the time of the combat revamp that this wasn't intentional and would be fixed.</P> <P>As of LU20, the Fists line of procs will only trigger on the first hit of any art that launches more than one attack. In other words, the days of landing more than five procs are soon to be over.</P> <P>Do not cry nerf; I told you this was coming. After the next live update, the spell will behave as the description says it should. This is a bug fix, not a nerf.</P>

[Marillion]

Does this include the fix for the current bug thats happened when this was put in on test and beta, where no procs are currently working at all?

[Icarii_Raven`Lyon]

<div>Wow, I never even realized that it did that in the first place =) Shows how much attention i paid =)</div>

[Bootstwadd]

<div></div>Aw crap...now look what I did...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] YOU MOOR!Bruisers is gonna hate me real big now.Nothing personal, still love ya Moorgard...just not in a non-Bruiser way. In other words, I will punch you in the troat as a sign of respect.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Boombahyay on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:57 PM</span></p>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:Do not cry nerf; <strong><font color="#ff3300">I told you this was coming</font></strong>. After the next live update, the spell will behave as the description says it should. This is a bug fix, not a nerf.<hr></blockquote>Nothing to worry about my friend.

[Mythilt]

Actually, I always assumed that it lasted for the first 8 hits (The monk version is 8 hits) and that every hit with a multi-strike line counted as a hit...ie, if the multi-strike was 5 blows landing, and you had only 3 hits left in the powerfist art, then only the first three proc'd, the remaining 2 did not.  I won't complain because I don't see it as a nerf exactly.  I'd prefer it work as outlined above, because its more realistic with the idea, but do agree that it counting as only one proc while procing more than once is bad.<div></div>

[Dahlrek]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<p>I might as well point out that a change I warned folks of long ago is coming to this spell line. Currently if you have this buff active and use a mulit-attack combat art (such as Rapid Swings), you will get a proc on every hit that lands--even if it lands more than five times. This trick is used by bruisers to do extra damage on AE attacks, but I pointed out around the time of the combat revamp that this wasn't intentional and would be fixed.</p><p>As of LU20, the Fists line of procs will only trigger on the first hit of any art that launches more than one attack. In other words, the days of landing more than five procs are soon to be over.</p><hr></blockquote>This is a hack fix.  I certainly don't want to reduce my own DPS, but if you're going to fix it you need to get your engineers to fix it correctly, including all the corner cases.  I'm assuming the fix is for the mechanic, because it's not just a brawler issue.  How does this fix interact with the upcoming double-attack mechanic?  How does it interact with triggered multi-target auto-attack effects like Open Wounds?  How does it interact with Hail of Steel/Arrows?  Seriously, fix it right.  Let it proc whenever it wants, up to n, and then stop letting it fire.</span><div></div>

[selch]

<div></div><div>Actually Moorguard,</div><div> </div><div>I'm a monk and using Rapid Swings with thundering fists line. How it works is not the way you think it does.</div><div> </div><div>With Rapid Swing (multi attack -- which is not AE) actually lands TF as it is intended. If it hits, it uses all of your TF usages. Which means, 5 attacks as RS, eats 5 of TF usages and 3 left to go for next attacks and when you have done with Rapid Swings, no Thundering Fists is left.</div><div> </div><div>"Bug" or "Fix", whatever, hope you don't "fix" something working as intended (and as in description, not wrong way around)</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:21 PM</span></p>

[littleman17]

<div>Yeah I am getting the same thing as Selch... My thundering fist line only works on the first 5 hits of my one hundred hand slap line. Nerf... *cough* fixing it so that it on gives one proc (if I am reading that right) on the very first hit of the combo would severely ruin one of my main combos (fierce punch -> Most recent ts upgrade -> rapid swings line).</div><div> </div><div>It may be bugged on AE spells but not on multi attack single target attacks so please don't nerf this part of it and call it a fix.</div>

[MrMartin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Boombahyay wrote:<div>Is it?  Rolled a noob Bruiser, just got this skill, and nowhere in the description does it say that it's charge/use based.</div><div> </div><div>Yet in my maintained spells area it's telling me 5 charges remain after I cast it...and yes, after I hit the mob 5 times, it's gone.</div><div>Is this how it's meant to work?  Cause the 5 charges line in the maintained window looks like it was just tossed in there.</div><div> </div><div>Or, is it because it's only App I at the moment that it sucks so bad.</div><hr></blockquote><p>I can tell you that this spell rocks! I made to Adept III and im kicking some serious behind now. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Adept III = 22 dmg per proc.</p><p>(Have to brag a little <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - I got server first when making the Adept III spell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div><div>Actually Moorguard,</div><div> </div><div>I'm a monk and using Rapid Swings with thundering fists line. How it works is not the way you think it does.</div><div> </div><div>With Rapid Swing (multi attack -- which is not AE) actually lands TF as it is intended. If it hits, it uses all of your TF usages. Which means, 5 attacks as RS, eats 5 of TF usages and 3 left to go for next attacks and when you have done with Rapid Swings, no Thundering Fists is left.</div><div> </div><div>"Bug" or "Fix", whatever, hope you don't "fix" something working as intended (and as in description, not wrong way around)<hr></div></blockquote><p>Nope.  Sorry you're wrong.</p><p>If you throw up storming palm and then hit rapid swings immeditately followed by your AE you will get a ton of procs.. including probably 5 or 6 auto attacks after the AE.</p><p>It needs to be fixed.</p>

[Dahlrek]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><p>If you throw up storming palm and then hit rapid swings immeditately followed by your AE you will get a ton of procs.. including probably 5 or 6 auto attacks after the AE.</p><hr></blockquote>Monks might get post-flurry procs.  Bruisers get an 8-hit flurry and the proc is only for 5.  Once we've flurried, it is in fact over and done with (assuming we hit 5 or more times).  I've got hours and hours of logs showing this explicitly, over and over.  Of course, the strategy is to activate fists, autoattack a couple times, stun, get behind and then flurry, netting at least 12 procs.  It does need to be fixed, if only for how abusive it would be if I had a pocket Illusionist.</span><div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><div>/Sob My Favorite Trick , Banished  :smileysad: how about fixing the crushing damage aswell please moor :smileywink:</div>

[DrMod]

<span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Boombahyay wrote:<div>Yet in my maintained spells area it's telling me 5 charges remain after I cast it...and yes, after I hit the mob 5 times, it's gone.</div><div>Is this how it's meant to work?  Cause the 5 charges line in the maintained window looks like it was just tossed in there.<hr></div></blockquote><p>Though the prose description may not be the clearest, it will last for five hits or until you cancel the buff. Not that you'd ever cancel it, but technically you could.</p><p>I might as well point out that a change I warned folks of long ago is coming to this spell line. Currently if you have this buff active and use a mulit-attack combat art (such as Rapid Swings), you will get a proc on every hit that lands--even if it lands more than five times. This trick is used by bruisers to do extra damage on AE attacks, but I pointed out around the time of the combat revamp that this wasn't intentional and would be fixed.</p><p>As of LU20, the Fists line of procs will only trigger on the first hit of any art that launches more than one attack. In other words, the days of landing more than five procs are soon to be over.</p><p>Do not cry nerf; I told you this was coming. After the next live update, the spell will behave as the description says it should. This is a bug fix, not a nerf.</p><hr></blockquote>Is it not actually possible then for it to proc just off the first 5 attacks of the flurry?</span><div></div>

[Elerri]

How will this affect our hate-proc (i.e. "Quarrel&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?Does that mean if I use my AE attack only the main target will be hit by the hate increasing proc or do the other targets get hit as well?I got a nice AE attack at 50 that allowed cause quite some hate to a group every 2 minutes or so thanks to the chance of getting 4 hits + potential procs on 6 mobs around me. As I had serious problems in the past with keeping agro in group encounters (compared to my berserker) I would hate to lose part of that ability again.That to some degree is also an issue with the rapid swing attack. Right now it can be sort of used like an "emergency taunt" for a single mob, as the chance you might get 1+2 procs of Quarrel when using it is pretty good. I don't believe that we generate agro that good that changing how Quarrel works on multi, AE single and AE multi hit attacks.

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Boombahyay wrote:<div>Yet in my maintained spells area it's telling me 5 charges remain after I cast it...and yes, after I hit the mob 5 times, it's gone.</div><div>Is this how it's meant to work? Cause the 5 charges line in the maintained window looks like it was just tossed in there.<hr></div></blockquote><p>Though the prose description may not be the clearest, it will last for five hits or until you cancel the buff. Not that you'd ever cancel it, but technically you could.</p><p>I might as well point out that a change I warned folks of long ago is coming to this spell line. Currently if you have this buff active and use a mulit-attack combat art (such as Rapid Swings), you will get a proc on every hit that lands--even if it lands more than five times. This trick is used by bruisers to do extra damage on AE attacks, but I pointed out around the time of the combat revamp that this wasn't intentional and would be fixed.</p><p>As of LU20, the Fists line of procs will only trigger on the first hit of any art that launches more than one attack. In other words, the days of landing more than five procs are soon to be over.</p><p>Do not cry nerf; I told you this was coming. After the next live update, the spell will behave as the description says it should. This is a bug fix, not a nerf.</p><hr></blockquote>So long tier 3 DPS, Illusionists barely knew ye. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (Not that I didn't already hear about this in beta or even disagree with you, but a loss is a loss.)<p>Message Edited by WAPCE on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:09 AM</span></p>

[Junaru]

This fix isn't a big deal. It's not like you wont get in all 5 shots on the mob if it only procs on one swing of rapid swing. In the end you will still get the same amount of damage unless your rapid swing kills the mob. At that point does it really matter that you only got one proc?<div></div>

[Mentla]

<span><blockquote><hr>WAPCE wrote:So long tier 3 DPS, Illusionists barely knew ye. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (Not that I didn't already hear about this in beta or even disagree with you, but a loss is a loss.)<p>Message Edited by WAPCE on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:09 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>What DO we do?  On a raid I mean?  There are loads of people that do much higher dps, we offer little in the way of utility and we aren't the best choice of tank for a raid?Not complaining, rolled my Bruisa! <font size="1">(TM)</font> for solo action, just curious.</span><div></div>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div><div>Actually Moorguard,</div><div> </div><div>I'm a monk and using Rapid Swings with thundering fists line. How it works is not the way you think it does.</div><div> </div><div>With Rapid Swing (multi attack -- which is not AE) actually lands TF as it is intended. If it hits, it uses all of your TF usages. Which means, 5 attacks as RS, eats 5 of TF usages and 3 left to go for next attacks and when you have done with Rapid Swings, no Thundering Fists is left.</div><div> </div><div>"Bug" or "Fix", whatever, hope you don't "fix" something working as intended (and as in description, not wrong way around)<hr></div></blockquote><p>Nope.  Sorry you're wrong.</p><p>If you throw up storming palm and then hit rapid swings immeditately followed by your AE you will get a ton of procs.. including probably 5 or 6 auto attacks after the AE.</p><p>It needs to be fixed.</p><hr></blockquote>Nope, just tested.</div><div> </div><div>I am L49, so I'm using, Adept III Lunging Mangoose (Flurry of 5 attacks, Rapid Swings update) and Shocking Hand (Adept I) (8 uses)</div><div> </div><div>Used Shocking Hand, and after used Lunging Mangoose and after that 3 uses left.</div><div> </div><div>All of the single hits in flurry attack having Shocking Hand and all counts from counter of Shocking hand. If it was the way you think it needs fixing ofcourse, but it is not that way.. At least till my level... Not sure post L50 updates.  Oh and where Moorguard might be wrong is confusing "Flurry" with AE attack such as Hydra.</div><div> </div><div>But no need to change Flurry side but it is AE side then. Because I'm quite certain, Every single hit in Flurry Attack uses counter.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Here is LOG (Magic damage is Shocking Hand, Lunging Mangoose as well). You can actually see magic damage only hit 8 no matter if I use Flurry and every single Flurry counts. <strong><font color="#ccff00">So it IS NOT bug with Flurry Attacks + Thundering Fists</font></strong>, so please bring in more logs to testify your theory and you can repeat my test at any time you want to reproduce it.:</div><div> </div><div>(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] You start fighting.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Lunging Mongoose hits a Samiel corsair for 120 points of slashing damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Jolting Strike hits a Samiel corsair for 59 points of magic damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] A Samiel corsair is struck by a Thundering Fist.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Lunging Mongoose hits a Samiel corsair for 114 points of slashing damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Jolting Strike hits a Samiel corsair for 38 points of magic damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] A Samiel corsair is struck by a Thundering Fist.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Lunging Mongoose hits a Samiel corsair for 163 points of slashing damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Jolting Strike hits a Samiel corsair for 50 points of magic damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] A Samiel corsair is struck by a Thundering Fist.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Lunging Mongoose hits a Samiel corsair for 171 points of slashing damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Jolting Strike hits a Samiel corsair for 42 points of magic damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] A Samiel corsair is struck by a Thundering Fist.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Lunging Mongoose hits a Samiel corsair for 131 points of slashing damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] YOUR Jolting Strike hits a Samiel corsair for 40 points of magic damage.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] A Samiel corsair is struck by a Thundering Fist.(1139939144)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:44 2006] A Samiel corsair is hit with a lunging mongoose attack.(1139939145)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:45 2006] YOU try to slash a Samiel corsair, but miss.(1139939145)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:45 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 57 points of slashing damage.(1139939146)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:46 2006] a Samiel corsair tries to pierce YOU, but YOU deflect.(1139939146)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:46 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 64 points of slashing damage.(1139939146)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:46 2006] YOUR Jolting Strike hits a Samiel corsair for 41 points of magic damage.(1139939146)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:46 2006] A Samiel corsair is struck by a Thundering Fist.(1139939146)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:46 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 73 points of slashing damage.(1139939147)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:47 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 60 points of slashing damage.(1139939147)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:47 2006] YOUR Jolting Strike hits a Samiel corsair for 54 points of magic damage.(1139939147)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:47 2006] A Samiel corsair is struck by a Thundering Fist.(1139939147)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:47 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 53 points of slashing damage.(113993914<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Tue Feb 14 19:45:48 2006] a Samiel corsair's Flurry of Arms hits YOU for 62 points of piercing damage.(113993914<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Tue Feb 14 19:45:48 2006] a Samiel corsair tries to pierce YOU with Flurry of Arms, but YOU deflect.(113993914<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Tue Feb 14 19:45:48 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 76 points of slashing damage.(113993914<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Tue Feb 14 19:45:48 2006] YOUR Jolting Strike hits a Samiel corsair for 54 points of magic damage.(113993914<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Tue Feb 14 19:45:48 2006] A Samiel corsair is struck by a Thundering Fist.(113993914<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Tue Feb 14 19:45:48 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 61 points of slashing damage.(113993914<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Tue Feb 14 19:45:48 2006] Your hands return to normal.(1139939149)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:49 2006] a Samiel corsair tries to pierce YOU, but YOU parry.(1139939150)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:50 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 75 points of slashing damage.(1139939150)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:50 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 83 points of slashing damage.(1139939151)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:51 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 79 points of slashing damage.(1139939151)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:51 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 35 points of slashing damage.(1139939152)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:52 2006] a Samiel corsair tries to pierce YOU, but YOU parry.(1139939152)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:52 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 62 points of slashing damage.(1139939152)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:52 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 70 points of slashing damage.(1139939153)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:53 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 69 points of slashing damage.(1139939153)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:53 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 83 points of slashing damage.(1139939155)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:55 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 80 points of slashing damage.(1139939155)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:55 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 79 points of slashing damage.(1139939155)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:55 2006] a Samiel corsair hits YOU for 104 points of piercing damage.(1139939156)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:56 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 76 points of slashing damage.(1139939156)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:56 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 53 points of slashing damage.(1139939157)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:57 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 39 points of slashing damage.(1139939157)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:57 2006] YOU hit a Samiel corsair for 56 points of slashing damage.(1139939157)[Tue Feb 14 19:45:57 2006] a Samiel corsair tries to pierce YOU, but YOU deflect.</div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text">I'm not very good at maths, and not to brag, but to be honest, my old game SWG developers sure used my log to redefine "armor break" that they claimed "working as intended" which was not post CU. (Salute to Blixtev & TH)</span></p><p><span class="time_text">Ofcourse I want all bugs to be fixed, but I don't want something to be broken that is working as intended. Such as Flurry attacks + Thundering fist combo. (Not talking about AE, even I'm pretty sure AE works same method too, just need logs before actually saying it is working as exploit)</span></p><p><span class="time_text">So, don't touch my Flurry using my TF usages, but use only what is left behind from TF.</span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:56 AM</span></p>

[x0rtrun]

selch - you and gaige are both correctbut you are looking at it in a very limited fashion, you're using lunging as soon as you cast fists.but if you cast fists, use up 7 of it's procs, and THEN cast lunging, you'll actually get 5 full procs off lunging for a total of 12 procs.this is tested and varified, and you'll see it happen to if you try it like that.<div></div>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>x0rtrunks wrote:selch - you and gaige are both correctbut you are looking at it in a very limited fashion, you're using lunging as soon as you cast fists.but if you cast fists, use up 7 of it's procs, and THEN cast lunging, you'll actually get 5 full procs off lunging for a total of 12 procs.this is tested and varified, and you'll see it happen to if you try it like that.<div></div><hr></blockquote>If it IS that way, then should be counted "exactly" not "nerfed" <em>for only "first attack" of any special.</em> I use my fists, use my lunging and getting proc of my every hit. According to moorguard, I will get only one proc from my speed flurry attack, thus not just being low-end tank, loosing DPS name as well.</div><div> </div><div>I mean "fix" should work like this:</div><div> </div><div>1. If I have 2 uses left for TF</div><div>2. If I use Flurry, 2 uses SHOULD does extra proc in Flurry sequence (First 2 hit of flurry should add proc, last 3 not, since no TF left) instead of only first one and leaving 1 for next attack.</div><div><span class="time_text"></span> </div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:52 AM</span></p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>selch wrote:<p>Nope.  Sorry you're wrong.</p><p>If you throw up storming palm and then hit rapid swings immeditately followed by your AE you will get a ton of procs.. including probably 5 or 6 auto attacks after the AE.</p><p>It needs to be fixed.</p><hr>Nope, just tested.<hr></blockquote><p>...</p><p><img src="http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5347/imright5yl.jpg"></p><p>12 procs, kthxu.  Like X said, if you use Jolting then wait until it has one charge left it will proc off of all 5 lunging swings.</p><p>I admire what you're trying to do, but don't call me wrong unless you're right, thanks.</p><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>If it IS that way, then should be counted "exactly" not "nerfed" <em>for only "first attack" of any special.</em><hr></div></blockquote><p>No, it shouldn't.  It should go off of 7 auto attacks and one lunging.  Whether the auto attacks are before or after Lunging it doesn't matter.</p><p>Also, your whining about not being a tank and losing dps don't belong in this thread about a *<strong>BUG</strong>* fix.</p><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:50 AM</span></p>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><div>Okay, I got the point of extending usage by these attacks is bug, however so you are saying "using 5 of my TF" in 1 attack of 5 hit is BUG too?</div><div> </div><div>If so why? Aren't those hits register individually?</div><div><span class="time_text"></span> </div><div><span class="time_text"></span> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:01 PM</span></p>

[x0rtrun]

While it is a loss of dps compared to how it is now (because atm it's broken) having all the hits proc off of only the first hit of lunging doesn't really *reduce* our dps. It just spreads out what used to be burst dps out over more attacks.This is unfortunate because the high burst dps of lunging + thunder was a great way to peel mobs in time of need. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I also weep for the loss of aoe damage from combining our aoe with fists. in very large groups getting 8 procs for the price of 5 was invaluable in holding all that agro.sure it's a fix, but it stings just as bad, especially since it's taken several months to address it. you begin to get used to the way things are, and suddenly the rules are changed.<div></div>

[Keldo]

Prismatic Havok + Fae Fires + Jolting Fist + Savage Blows = carnage<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div><div>CoB + shocking fists + thundering fists + pre-savg blows nerf + prismatic havoc + fae fires + dispatch in opening of pp:r = ....crashed zone =X</div>

[Keldo]

ohh CoB, thats a good one to add<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>could really go on and on =p.  apply poison (assassin, lvl52), that wizard dd heat proc thingy <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, umm, that uh..the conjy heat dd proc ;pThe warlock one.. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] could go on and on lol

[Krooner]

<div>Just remember CoB is subject to the same proc limitations that hit sme many classes.</div><div>1 proc primary hand every 3 seconds. CoB lasts for 12 seconds so that a possible 4 procs.</div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>what about combo skills like crushing fury & savage blows tho?

[Krooner]

<div></div><p>As far as I can tell its once per strike every three seconds.</p><p>Hopefully someone out there can parse it and see but you can kinda tell from the sounds and the damage that its only not doing as much as it used to.</p>

[Keldo]

That is wrong, CoB procs for every primary hand swing, and every melee CA activation including ones with multiple hits.  The nerf was it no longer procs on off hand auto attack swings.<div></div>

[Krooner]

<div>But there is still the 3 sec proc rate right ?</div><div> </div>

[Keldo]

Percentage based procs (IE: 10% chance on a melee strike) are weighted based on weapon delay, yes.  Higher than 3 delay means more procs (which is why on a 7 second delay bow Rangers recieve a huge amount of procs).But CoB is not a percentage based proc - it reads: 'For each successful melee strike, deal x disease damage', thus, there is no 'proc rate' it simply fires for every auto attack with the main hand and every melee CA.<div></div>

[TheSummoned]

<span><blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:<div></div><div>CoB + shocking fists + thundering fists + pre-savg blows nerf + prismatic havoc + fae fires + dispatch in opening of pp:r = ....crashed zone =X</div><hr></blockquote>Hahaha!I'm sad prismatic is taken away from us and the illusionists though...</span><div></div>

[Krooner]

<div>From the few parses I have seen its been working like this for even auto attacks.</div><div> </div><div>start fighting</div><div>CoB up</div><div><font color="#ffff00">you hit X mob for x amount of damage</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00">your blade chime hits for x amount of desease damage.</font></div><div><div>you hit X mob for x amount of damage</div><div><div>you hit X mob for x amount of damage</div><div><div>you hit X mob for x amount of damage</div><div><div><font color="#ffff00">you hit X mob for x amount of damage</font></div></div></div><div><div><font color="#ffff00">your blade chime hits for x amount of desease damage</font>.</div><div> </div><div> even if you throw in a CA it doesnt <u>reproc</u> for 3 seconds.</div><div>The last parse we looked at this was about a week ago.</div><div> </div></div><div> </div></div></div>

[Keldo]

Well, I can't say I've parsed it this week because I don't have a dirge, my last parse of CoB is from about 2 or 3 weeks ago (it worked how I described then).  But, Swashbucklers get a spell called Inspired Daring which does essentially the same thing as CoB, but self only.  I can confirm that as of 30 seconds ago, it procs on every main hand swing + every combat art used and I would be extremely suprised if CoB was any different.<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>w/ an ae like savg blows imo it would have a chance to proc off every mob in aoe off each combo hit

[LoreLady]

So then what about scouts then? Are poisons only going to work on more than one attack - if so I see this change putting many scouts behind in dps (namely, assassins, and even possibly rangers). And, will our procs still hit on single target abilities.

[Quicksilver74]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<p>As of LU20, the Fists line of procs will only trigger on the first hit of any art that launches more than one attack. In other words, the days of landing more than five procs are soon to be over.</p><hr></blockquote><p>the big question, is weather or not this will affect weapon procs, stance procs, and hate/dmg procs as well. </p><p>As a bruiser, I realize that without proc damage, I'll be dpsing alot less,.... almost as badly as a tree hugging monk. </p><p>Please tell me that only the fists line is being affected this way.</p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Quicksilver74 wrote:<div></div><p>As a bruiser, I realize that without proc damage, I'll be dpsing alot less,.... almost as badly as a tree hugging monk. </p><p>Please tell me that only the fists line is being affected this way.</p><hr></blockquote><div>You aren't really a DPS class so I don't see how the impact on your playstyle would be huge.</div><div> </div><div>My impression is that all procs should work this way on CAs that hit multiple times.</div>

[Quicksilver74]

<div>I disagree.  I think bruisers are a pretty descent DPS class.  wer are versatile enough to gear ourselves up to fill multiple roles, but most common for us is DPS.  I for one, consistently do over 500 dps on raid mobs, usually averaging around 600.  This usually puts me within the top 5 of every raid. </div>

[Gaige]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Quicksilver74 wrote:<div>I disagree.  I think bruisers are a pretty descent DPS class.  wer are versatile enough to gear ourselves up to fill multiple roles, but most common for us is DPS.  I for one, consistently do over 500 dps on raid mobs, usually averaging around 600.  This usually puts me within the top 5 of every raid. </div><hr></blockquote><p>/shrug</p><p>I guess I feel sorry for your brigands, rangers, swashs, assassins and casters then.</p><p>At any rate if something procs and you're doing a flurry attack I think it should only proc once as the flurry is one attack.  We'll see when it goes live I suppose.</p>

[Danter]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<p>At any rate if something procs and you're doing a flurry attack I think it should only proc once as the flurry is one attack.  We'll see when it goes live I suppose.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I would agree with this if the successive attacks did not automatically miss if the first attack missed.  That's what you're gaining when you use these multi-hit CAs, the additional proc chances.  The pro is that it has a chance to proc on each hit, the con is that against challenging mobs, it's never going to do anywhere near full damage.</p><p>I think the Thundering Fist bug where it procs 8-12 times should be fixed, but just making multi-hit CAs only proc once is a band aid fix and requires the least amount of effort from SOEs coders.</p><p>Savage Blows and Crushing Fury are a huge chunk of DPS because of Engulf, Quarrel, and the weapon proc.  It's already bad enough that Savage Blows and Crushing Fury never hit orange cons and brawler mobs completely.</p><p>-Kald, 60 Bruiser Permafrost</p>

[Dahlrek]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Danterus wrote:<div></div><p>Savage Blows and Crushing Fury are a huge chunk of DPS because of Engulf, Quarrel, and the weapon proc.  It's already bad enough that Savage Blows and Crushing Fury never hit orange cons and brawler mobs completely.</p><hr></blockquote>Well, with this fix and the other changes to procs (CA proc probability is now independent of weapon speed), 2h weapons are now officially worse than DW in every way that matters in the long run.  Exactly the opposite of release.  I'm not surprised about the status quo flux, balance is always cyclical, I'm just surprised it took so long.  I haven't verified if they're using CA activation time or some static value to determine CA proc prob, but it's basically a gamewide nerf to procs, and while I'm not happy about it (it's going to cost me about 15% of my solo dps), I guess I'm glad I'm not a Ranger.</span><div></div>

[Aaliel Stonefists]

<div></div><div></div>Hopefully since they are taking the time to fix this direly urgent issue of making it so storming fists does not get any extra procs, that they can find the time to make it so that our stuns show up in the maintained window again.  However I'm guessing they probably haven't.<p>Message Edited by Aaliel Stonefists on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:02 PM</span></p>

[FAJud]

<div>As of yesterdays patch on the pvp beta, Thundering Fists has a 30 sec duration, which definately sucks...</div><div> </div><div>With the new proc changes, anyone else think our offensive stance needs to be changed?</div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>/sigh-

[Bootstwadd]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>FAJudge wrote:<div>As of yesterdays patch on the pvp beta, Thundering Fists has a 30 sec duration, which definately sucks...</div><div> </div><div>With the new proc changes, anyone else think our offensive stance needs to be changed?</div><hr></blockquote>What's the re-cast time?  Did it stay the same?  It should be less...shouldn't it?

[ShinmaRyche]

<div></div><font color="#ffff00">Recast time is the same, 1 min.</font>