Avoidance

[Quicksilver74]

<div>I've been doing some tweaking with armor pieces, and trying to figure out all there is to possibly know about avoidance.   I'd like to have an open discussion here for everything related to avoidance.  For example, bruisers as well as monks have a built in shield, which works at the same effectiveness as a round shield(as of Live Update #1)... and I'm sure there are some people who didn't know that. </div><div> </div><div>   As far as trying to increase avoidance as a whole, I've been doing some number crunching and heres what I came up with:</div><div> </div><div>10 Agility = .3% avoidance</div><div>2 Parry = .3% avoidance</div><div>1 Defelction = .2% avoidance</div><div>1 Defense = .25% avoidance</div><div> </div><div>It seems that defense is more important than avoidance, but deflection is more important than parry. </div><div> </div><div>My questions for all you number crunchers out there.... is where does Riposte fit in to this?  Is riposte calculated using defense? </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[ganjookie]

I dont know but your new sig is great!  kinda MK'ishbesides "I crunch numbers like that for breakfast"<div></div>

[WaachBack]

<div></div>Nice info!

[Stiffn]

<div></div>To make a guess......i would have to say that riposte is based off of parry.  In "commonsense" thinking (yeah right) you have to parry an attack to do a counter attack.  So riposte follows a parry.  Just a guess though.

[Jezekie]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Quicksilver74 wrote:<div> </div><div>My questions for all you number crunchers out there.... is where does Riposte fit in to this?  Is riposte calculated using defense? </div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>Parry.</span></div>

[Quicksilver74]

<div>thanks.   That makes up for parry having the least avoidance value... as a riposte is way better than a deflect.  </div><div> </div><div>So from what I have.... Defense = 360 degrees</div><div>                                     Deflectio n - 360 degrees</div><div>                                     Parry = 90 degree frontal arc.</div><div> </div><div>That sound right to you guys?</div>

[Morrgan_Soerenson]

<div></div>One important thing I have noted is, that the numbers are dependant on each other...lets say you have    40% base avoidance (derived from deflection skill, agility and a malus based on armour)    20%  parry    10% deflection    so that adds up to 40% + (100-40) *20% +  (100-40-(60*20%))*10% = 56.8%I think they removed the "shield"factor for brawlers and added the deflection back in... as in the old description it read as if deflection was some kind of mitigation thing... and our avoidance stat does not have a block rating.So to sum it up... if you have more base avoidance the deflection and parry part loses influence... on the other hand... +5 avoidance as a racial trait gets really nifty! My Mage has an avoidance of about 40% because of the dwarven trait... agility on the other hand is not so important IMHO. As it gets less influence the more you divert from the level cap.Therefore... dwarves, iksar, etc and especially humans make good brawlers at the moment, because of the +5 defense trait.  +5 is a whole level., mind you. humans have the +3 defense buff on top of that. thats +8, gives them probably some 43 or so base avoidance... add to that any defense buffs from sweeping crane or whatnot and they are less likely to get hit than a wood elf on speed. (as they get only +2 to defense and +2 to parry... but IF repostes are based on parry, wood elves get more repostes)This was different at the beginning when wood elves, halflings and ratonga got +2 to their avoidance rating... go figure.cheersOlaf (who finally knows what avoidance +2 meant) <p>Message Edited by Morrgan_Soerenson on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:57 AM</span></p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Quicksilver74 wrote:<div>thanks.   That makes up for parry having the least avoidance value... as a riposte is way better than a deflect.  </div><div> </div><div>So from what I have.... Defense = 360 degrees</div><div>                                     Deflectio n - 360 degrees</div><div>                                     Parry = 90 degree frontal arc.</div><div> </div><div>That sound right to you guys?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Everything we have is 360, except we only riposte in the front 180.</p><blockquote><hr>Morrgan_Soerenson wrote:<div></div>Therefore... dwarves, iksar, etc and especially humans make good brawlers at the moment, because of the +5 defense trait.  +5 is a whole level., mind you.<hr></blockquote><p>It doesn't work like that anymore, defense is just a straight avoidance addition.</p><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:37 AM</span></p>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>Nice info Crabbok.  It'd be interesting to see if a monk gets more out of those stats than a Bruiser does since they are more avoidance based rather than mitigation based.Am curious to see if thats base Avoi (Just like Brawlers HP is base higher than Warriors).  Or if it does go up more with each deflection/etc than a Bruiser gets.

[Quicksilver74]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Morrgan_Soerenson wrote:<div></div>Therefore... dwarves, iksar, etc and especially humans make good brawlers at the moment, because of the +5 defense trait.  +5 is a whole level., mind you. humans have the +3 defense buff on top of that. thats +8, gives them probably some 43 or so base avoidance... add to that any defense buffs from sweeping crane or whatnot and they are less likely to get hit than a wood elf on speed. (as they get only +2 to defense and +2 to parry... but IF repostes are based on parry, wood elves get more repostes)<p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>Fool.... you totally discount the sexiest race for defense.    OGRES!   We get +5 defense permanent, and then get an additional +5 as a buff.   +10 defense just for being a sexy ogre!   Humans are in second place with 5 perm and +3 buff for a total of 8. </p><p> </p><p>And Phay,  I'm pretty sure the reason that monks get more avoidance is because they self buff deflection alot more than we do.  Our avoidance buff gives us bonus Agility.  Their gives them like 15 more deflection. (not sure the exact number). </p>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>Nah Crabbok. The whole logic of Monk&Bruiser.  Bruiser mitigates more, monk avoids more.  I was just wondering how that comes into play: if they get the same ammount of avoidance as we do per deflection,avoidance,agility, defense.

[Gungo]

<div></div>Thier TV line gives deflection ours gives agi. AGi is easier to max out then deflection. and deflection gives more per point then agi. i checked it out previously jsut to see how much of a difference deflection was vs agi mainly because i wanted to see if it was still wqorth using staggering stance (which now has had its deflection removed for the bruiser equivalant). and staggering stance adept3 lvl 22 buff was only 0.8% less avodiance then shrug off master 1. truly it would of made more sense to have given monks an agi buff and bruisers the wis buff if they wanted to seperate mitgation and avodiance, but imho wis works out better for monks. Its one of the harder stats to raise for a tank. so in essence a monk w the same agi as a bruiser should have mroe avodiance since they will have more deflection.

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>Thats not at all the question I'm asking.First off.  A Monk shouldn't be able to get the same ammount of agility as a Bruiser.  I just don't see it happening, between Shake Off and Battle Lust.Second off.  My question was, how does deflection/defense/agility effect Monks.  Crabbok showed the stats earlier as to how it effects Bruisers, but do monks get the same ammount of avoidance bonus from those items like Bruisers? Or do they get a small ammount more per each stat increase due to the overall idea of monks being more avoidance, less mitigation.

[Quicksilver74]

<div>Now I see yoru question Phay... makes more sense now.  Unfortunatley I don't have an answer.  I'll await a response from Gaige. </div><div> </div><div>Another fun fact.....</div><div> </div><div>  If you are a bruiser who goesin the Main Tank group to use yoru avoidance buff on the MT.... Defense becomes less important, as you cannot dodge an attack for him, you can only Parry/Riposet or Deflect for him.   Being that defense is the mobs chance of missing you, it won't apply to your main tank blocks. </div>