Quarrel proc's

[Danan]

<DIV>According to the skill description Quarrel Master II Increases your chance at an additional attack with increased hate every time you strike in melee.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Effects</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>On a successful melee attack this spell has a 25% chance to cast Roughhousing on target of attack</LI> <UL> <LI>Increase threat by 194</LI> <LI>Inflicts 71 - 119 damage on target</LI></UL></UL> <P>According to the parse i did in a duo tonight the percentage of the proc is more like 5% rather than the 25% listed</P> <P>Parse can be seen <A href="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/[email protected]//Quarrel.html" target=_blank>here</A>.</P> <P>The mobs fought the entire time was ranging from level 48 ^ up to a named at level 52 ^^^ , we never could kill the final mob since he nuked a LOT!</P> <P> </P> <P>Has anyone found similiar experience with the proc rate of Quarrel, maybe its even the same with monks hate proc that is supposedly at 50% if i remember right.</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>I am unfamiliar with your parser info, so I can't tell where you get 5% proc rate from (I see a number of hits, but I have no clue how many auto attack hits you got since most of our abilities count for crushing/slashing,etc).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing you may not know is that 25% proc rate doesn't mean you will proc every 4th attack. It means that 25% of the time, you will be procing.</DIV> <DIV>Which means if you have really fast weapons, you may have lots of hits before you proc, while a really slow weapon will need less attacks before procing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It balances out the procs, taking weapon delay out of the picture. You will always proc 25% of your total time spent fighting, regardless of how many attacks you actually get in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note that Gleaming Strike is a proc on an imbued weapon, which is at a listed 5%. It only got a listed 70 hits in compared to the 547 of Roughhousing. That's about 7x the proc rate in comparison... a little high. So either you switched up weapons in the middle somewhere (thus not counting Gleaming Strikes properly), you were fighting something that had a better chance at resisting the gleaming strike than the roughhousing (i've seen mine get resisted before), or Quarrel has a chance to proc off your combat abilities, since it's not attached to a weapon, and gleaming strike doesn't (not sure on this one, I though gleaming strike did).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In either case.. it's not that you will be procing every 4th attack... so if you have 10,000 hits, it's not that you'll have 2500 procs. You'll only get the 500.</DIV> <DIV>You may only get 2000 hits in with a slower weapon, but still get those 500 procs as well. Which makes it so slower weapons are still viable weapons to meleers.</DIV>

[Quicksilver74]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <DIV>I am unfamiliar with your parser info, so I can't tell where you get 5% proc rate from (I see a number of hits, but I have no clue how many auto attack hits you got since most of our abilities count for crushing/slashing,etc).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing you may not know is that 25% proc rate doesn't mean you will proc every 4th attack. It means that 25% of the time, you will be procing.</DIV> <DIV>Which means if you have really fast weapons, you may have lots of hits before you proc, while a really slow weapon will need less attacks before procing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It balances out the procs, taking weapon delay out of the picture. You will always proc 25% of your total time spent fighting, regardless of how many attacks you actually get in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note that Gleaming Strike is a proc on an imbued weapon, which is at a listed 5%. It only got a listed 70 hits in compared to the 547 of Roughhousing. That's about 7x the proc rate in comparison... a little high. So either you switched up weapons in the middle somewhere (thus not counting Gleaming Strikes properly), you were fighting something that had a better chance at resisting the gleaming strike than the roughhousing (i've seen mine get resisted before), or Quarrel has a chance to proc off your combat abilities, since it's not attached to a weapon, and gleaming strike doesn't (not sure on this one, I though gleaming strike did).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In either case.. it's not that you will be procing every 4th attack... so if you have 10,000 hits, it's not that you'll have 2500 procs. You'll only get the 500.</DIV> <DIV>You may only get 2000 hits in with a slower weapon, but still get those 500 procs as well. Which makes it so slower weapons are still viable weapons to meleers.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I disagree with this post very much.  It's the same argument that I have heard over and over again, and I shoudl probably start a new thread about it.  </P> <P> </P> <P>     I don't want to start a flame war, but I'm like 99.999% positive that you are wrong.  a 25% proc, means that on a successful attack, you have a 25% chance to proc.... so basicaly if you attack 100 times, odds are that you will get in about 25 procs.  Imagine doing a /random 100 each time you attack, and only procing if the number is 1-25.  </P> <P>   What you are saying, is that it is based on time attacking.... and theres no way thats true, because the description on EVERY SINGLE PROC says it's based on each hit.  If it were based on time attacking, it would say that.  Are you saying that Sony just made weapon proccing one way and has it listed a totally different way?  </P> <P> </P> <P>   Based on what I have seen, it really boils down to the per-hit thing.   Ever use crushing fury, or savage blows and get 3 or more procs with something like RGF that was a 12% rate?   I have.... thats because it's based a Per-Hit calculation.... not time.   </P> <P>   If anything is messed up, it may be sony's Random Number generator.   I run random numbers quite often, usually /random 100, and alot more often than not I'm ending up with 65 or higher.... which, statistically, I shoudln't get as much as 64 or lower.   </P> <P>Well, I hope you understand what I was trying to say about procs.  I don't mean to start a fight.  Just wanted to get this straight. <BR></P>

[Gungo]

He is right though. The developers posted prior that Proc rate is not tied to wpn delay. In other words a wpn w a delay of 1.0 does not proc twice as often as a wpn w 2.0 delay. They essentially proc the same amount of times in a given time period. OF course it could stil be bugged and procing a lower % then it should too.

[Jezekie]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Actual proc rates on weapons depend on a ratio of the delay of the weapon and the displayed chance to proc. The actual chance to proc is:<BR> <BR>(Weapon Delay / 3.0 Delay ) * Proc Percentage.<BR> <BR>You can think of every procing weapon has having its proc percent chance to trigger every 3 seconds. That way, a longsword and a dagger will proc the same amount over time, even though a dagger may swing faster and yield a smaller proc chance per hit. <P>===========================<BR>Jared Sweatt<BR>EverQuest II Items Designer<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Another thing, I took a quick look at that parse of yours, assuming you combined all fights in to the top one?</DIV> <DIV>It could be that you're only proccing off main hand with procs like roughhousing, which would put the proc percentage at around 20%, much more inline with the stated 25% of the spell. But it could also be using weapon delays, in which case the true % would be dependant on the delay of the weapons used. Much like in the above quote the true proc (per swing) varies depending on delay of weapons.</DIV>

[Danan]

<P>Even if its time delayed or procs only off the main hand, the description is very misleading.</P> <P>Weapons used was Pristine imbued scaled leather cestii (2.0 delay) and prismatic baton of the scale (1.5 delay), The cestii was in the main hand making it 2597 hits and 547 procs, that is roughly 21% proc rate.</P> <P>Time delayed it would rougly be 106 minuttes and 547 procs, or just about 5 procs a minutte.</P> <P>Engulf that procs from Firestance i had up seems to support that its 25% since from firestance its 5% chance to proc, and it proc'ed about 1/5 of roughhousing.</P> <P>The descriptions seem flawed to me though.</P>

[Vorham]

seems tied to weapon speed/haste from what ive seen.  I kind of hate dual wield because the engulf and roughhousing procs seem way more rare, lowering DPS even if weap ratios are equivalent.  Not uncommon to stand there with autoattack on, fire a crushing fury and maybe see 1 proc out of the 10-15 hits. Then equip RGF and the engulfs, roughhousing and ancient flame procs flow -- maybe a couple procs of each on a crushing fury, and maybe every 3'rd or 4th CA/autoattack swing. I havent parsed it, so they aren't hard numbers, but it's definitely noticeable.

[Sanamien]

Since its calculated from 3.0s delay, 5 procs per minute is actually exactly what it should be:(25 procs / 100 swings) * (1 swing / (3s / 60 s/min )) = 5 procs/min<p>Message Edited by Sanamien on <span class=date_text>10-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:06 AM</span>

[Quicksilver74]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jezekiell wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Actual proc rates on weapons depend on a ratio of the delay of the weapon and the displayed chance to proc. The actual chance to proc is:<BR> <BR>(Weapon Delay / 3.0 Delay ) * Proc Percentage.<BR> <BR>You can think of every procing weapon has having its proc percent chance to trigger every 3 seconds. That way, a longsword and a dagger will proc the same amount over time, even though a dagger may swing faster and yield a smaller proc chance per hit. <P>===========================<BR>Jared Sweatt<BR>EverQuest II Items Designer<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Another thing, I took a quick look at that parse of yours, assuming you combined all fights in to the top one?</DIV> <DIV>It could be that you're only proccing off main hand with procs like roughhousing, which would put the proc percentage at around 20%, much more inline with the stated 25% of the spell. But it could also be using weapon delays, in which case the true % would be dependant on the delay of the weapons used. Much like in the above quote the true proc (per swing) varies depending on delay of weapons.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wow, Well Jez, your the first person I have seen who actually has shown some evidence to the whole delay thing.   Ok, so maybe the Dev's tied in delay into procs, (Which is dumb), they need to change the way it is listed on items.   a 1.6 delay item with a 5% chance proc, and a 3.0 delay item with the same proc Certainly do NOT have the same proc rate.  So they need to adjust ALL proc rates.  </P> <P> </P> <P>  Either make it based on a % chance every hit, and possibly change the numbers to eflect this (quick weapons having a lower %), or rewrite the way it looks when you examine a weapon.   It's really disturbing for an item's description to blatantly mislead you. </P> <P>Mite as well make a leather tunic with 10,000 mitigation and +100 to all stats... and when you equip it it gives 5 mitigation and nothing to stats.   Thats about how dumb the whole proccing percentage is. </P> <P><BR></P>

[industrock]

<DIV>Thanks jez</DIV>