Updated Combat changes (updated 09/05/2005)

[ganjookie]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"><font color="#ff9900">Since so many changes are taking place, I thought I would just make this thread into the changes affecting fighters/brawlers/bruisers.All information can be found <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=5780#M5780" target="_blank">here</a><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=5780#M5780" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=5780#M5780</a></font> <b></b></font><hr><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"><font color="#ffff00"><b>***09.05.05***</b></font></font><b>Bruiser changes:</b> - The level 30 art Instill Doubt now has a level cap of 50. <b></b><b>Stances:</b> - All fighter and rogue stances are now 5s reuse, 0.5s cast time, 0 concentration, and should overwrite a previous stance when the next one is cast. <b>General Changes:</b> - Spells and arts should now be much more likely to hit within the damage range specified in their examine information, instead of being significantly mitigated by NPCs. - Interrupts should now occur less frequently. - Buffing/debuffing attributes, defense, parry, deflection, focus, and casting skills should now have a more noticeable effect. <hr><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"><b>***8.08.05***</b>Fighter changes:- Call to Arms had its duration removed and can now be toggled.<b>***8.09.05***</b> Fighter spells and combat arts have received a balance pass. In general, Fighter combat abilities have been made more efficient, either by reducing their power cost or increasing their damage. Please examine your spells and arts, as some effects have changed.<b>***8.17.05***</b>- Increasing your Strength now acts as a melee damage bonus and is no longer compared to the target's Agility.- Increasing your Agility improves your avoidance and no longer mitigates your opponent's Strength bonus.- Increasing your Intelligence now acts as a spell damage bonus and is no longer compared to the target's Wisdom.- Increasing your Wisdom improves your resistances to arcane damage types (Heat, Cold, Poison, Disease, Magic, Divine, and Mental) and no longer mitigates your opponent's Intelligence bonus.- The effectiveness of Strength, Agility, Intelligence, and Wisdom buffs has been increased. The effective cap is set at 10 times the character's level. For example, a level 30 fighter will receive an increasing melee damage bonus up to 300 Strength, while a level 40 wizard will receive an increasing bonus to spell damage up to 400 Intelligence.- Reactive procs that are triggered when taking damage will now activate properly even if the hit is fully mitigated or warded.- Defense and Deflection can now be buffed and debuffed across a wider range, making buffs and debuffs to these skills more meaningful.- The impact of the Parry skill has been adjusted to provide a more meaningful distinction between avoidance-based tanks and mitigation-based tanks.- Spell examine information will now show the range at which spells and combat arts can be cast.<b>***8.22.05***</b>Feign Death changes: - Maintained spells and pets are no longer cancelled on a successful feign. - You cannot issue commands to your pet while feigned, though you can still bring up a list of commands. - You cannot gain adventure experience while successfully feigned. - If feign fails, you now receive a "fallen to the ground" message.<b>***8.23.05***</b>Bruiser changes:- Bruisers no longer need to be weaponless to use Storming Fists.- Fire Stance can once again be canceled via the maintained spell window.<b>***8.26.05***</b>Bruiser changes:- The level 50 Training choice for Ignore Agony should now scribe properly.<b>***8.29.05***</b>ruiser changes:- The range of Sonic Fists has been adjusted, and use of the art should no longer trigger a loading screen.<b>***8.30.05***</b>Bruiser changes:- Bruisers now gain a single-target fear spell line: Instill Doubt at 30 and Instill Panic at 50.- The final upgrade to the Intimidate line is now called Unnerve.- Sonic Fists now has a minimum range of 10 meters. Its maximum range remains 30 meters.- Brawlers can now only riposte frontal attacks. They continue to parry and deflect attacks from behind them.- Brawlers/Monks/Bruisers now have slightly higher base health and slightly lower base power than Warriors/Guardians/Berserkers.<b>***8.31.05***</b>Bruiser changes:- Resolute Will now dispells Magic and Divine effects like the previous spells in the line.- Battle Fury and Battle Lust will now give the intended increases to both strength and agility. </font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"><b>***09.02.05***</b></font> <font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"> </font>Stances: - Fighter defensive stances now provide less physical damage mitigation and have greater offensive penalties. - Fighter offensive stances now provide an increased bonus to offense and steeper defensive penalties. <font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"><b>***09.03.05***</b></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"><b></b>MG made a lil posting<b> </b></font><font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=6168#M6168" target="_blank">Here</a></font> <font color="#ffffff" face="Arial"><b></b></font> <div>"There were two issues with the stances. First, that the amount of physical mitigation given was too high, and second, that the tradeoff in offensive capability was meaningless. There was little reason for a fighter to be in anything but their defensive stance all the time.</div> <div>Now the tradeoff is much more substantial. If you're the tank in a group, you'll want to go defensive. If you're not tanking in a group, you'll probably want to use the offensive stance. If you're soloing, you're likely better off going with a bunch of self buffs instead. I encourage you to experiment and see what kind of results you get against the things you typically fight.</div> <div>The mitigation reduction came after taking a hard look at the numbers and taking into account other types of buffs." <b>***09.02.05*** </b><b>Stances:</b> - Fighter defensive stances now provide less physical damage mitigation and have greater offensive penalties. - Fighter offensive stances now provide an increased bonus to offense and steeper defensive penalties. - Scout defensive stances also have DPS and offensive skill penalties, but their defensive benefits have increased. - Scout offensive stances now have increased offensive skills and a proc, but have steeper defensive penalties. The positional requirement has been removed. - Where other Scouts receive stances, the Troubador/Dirge/Bard spell line that starts with Insatiable Ardor was changed to a group buff. Troubadors buff Defense, while Dirges buff Parry. <b> </b></div> <p>Message Edited by ganjookie on <span class=date_text>09-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:12 PM</span>

[Groovemeist]

Doesn't look like the hp's changed much.  They raised our base health, but it still looks like guardians have more base hp.

[vorek]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Groovemeister wrote:<BR> Doesn't look like the hp's changed much.  They raised our base health, but it still looks like guardians have more base hp.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Just like they are supposed to....but restoring some Bruiser/Monk HPS will recover what they took (almost all of it from what I have seen).</P> <P>Remember....as I understand it....Bruiser/Monk should be able to tank NORMAL mobs as needed without too much effort. Guardians should still be the ONLY raid tank.</P>

[Moski]

<span><blockquote><hr>vorek wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Groovemeister wrote: <div></div>Doesn't look like the hp's changed much.  They raised our base health, but it still looks like guardians have more base hp. <hr> </blockquote> <p>Just like they are supposed to....but restoring some Bruiser/Monk HPS will recover what they took (almost all of it from what I have seen). </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Wrong, we get some HP back [read: SOME]: lvl 50 on live 5200 HP unbuffed, Copy of that char [same equipment, same Race, same Traits etc] on beta today [after we got "the hp boost"] 4.200 HP unbuffed. Copy of the Char 2 days ago lvl 52 same Equiment etc. 4.190 HP on beta.</font> </p> <p>Remember....<font color="#ffff00">as I understand it</font>....Bruiser/Monk should be able to tank NORMAL mobs as needed without too much effort. Guardians should still be the ONLY raid tank. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">I dont even want to comment that, i am tired of it.</font> </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Gungo]

<P>What are you guys talking about obviously Guards are the most defensive tank so they should be the raid tank, and the only fighters needed on raid, obviously the templar is the suppose to be the best healer so raids shouldn't use other healers, and of course warlocks are suppose to be the best dam/dps so there should be no need for other dps. all other classes can do an adequte job in groups. this revamp is obviously just here to stop whining and has nothing to do with balance.</P> <P>now if u don't get that was sarcasm i feel sorry for ya. the fact is no brawler believes scouts/caster should do less dps then us. And if scouts and casters do more dam then brawlers, where does that leave us 3rd rate dps and 3rd rate tanks. we don't have any real utility. The combat revamp is here to set up our intended role of avoidance tanking and yes that includes raid mobs. no one healer type can do all raids alone, no one caster is best at all raids for dps, and so shall it be no one fighter should be the best in all raids. If you dont see that is causing a problem then i feel sorry for you as you are surely blinded by your own ego.</P> <P>Variety leads to more tactics/strategies required. Which in turn leads to a greater sense of acomplishment. Which will ultimately lead to a better enjoyment of the game for all.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>08-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>

[MakhailSamma]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moskito wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vorek wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Groovemeister wrote:<BR> Doesn't look like the hp's changed much.  They raised our base health, but it still looks like guardians have more base hp.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Just like they are supposed to....but restoring some Bruiser/Monk HPS will recover what they took (almost all of it from what I have seen).<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Wrong, we get some HP back [read: SOME]: lvl 50 on live 5200 HP unbuffed, Copy of that char [same equipment, same Race, same Traits etc] on beta today [after we got "the hp boost"] 4.200 HP unbuffed. Copy of the Char 2 days ago lvl 52 same Equiment etc. 4.190 HP on beta.</FONT><BR></P> <P>Remember....<FONT color=#ffff00>as I understand it</FONT>....Bruiser/Monk should be able to tank NORMAL mobs as needed without too much effort. Guardians should still be the ONLY raid tank.<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I dont even want to comment that, i am tired of it.</FONT><BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> So when they said more HP's, they meant 10 more? </P> <P> That is rediculous. </P>

[Moski]

<span><blockquote><hr>MakhailSammael wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Moskito wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> vorek wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Groovemeister wrote: <div></div>Doesn't look like the hp's changed much.  They raised our base health, but it still looks like guardians have more base hp. <hr> </blockquote> <p>Just like they are supposed to....but restoring some Bruiser/Monk HPS will recover what they took (almost all of it from what I have seen).</p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Wrong, we get some HP back [read: SOME]: lvl 50 on live 5200 HP unbuffed, Copy of that char [same equipment, same Race, same Traits etc] on beta today [after we got "the hp boost"] 4.200 HP unbuffed. Copy of the Char 2 days ago lvl 52 same Equiment etc. 4.190 HP on beta.</font></p> <p>Remember....<font color="#ffff00">as I understand it</font>....Bruiser/Monk should be able to tank NORMAL mobs as needed without too much effort. Guardians should still be the ONLY raid tank.</p> <p><font color="#ff0000">I dont even want to comment that, i am tired of it.</font></p> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote></span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p> So when they said more HP's, they meant 10 more? </p> <p> That is rediculous. </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> no, you didnt notice the difference in 2 lvls. I have 4200 after patch in lvl 50 i had 4190 before patch in lvl 52 (i have 2 copies of my char on beta, Fanelia and Faneliax)  </span><div></div>

[JonnyBlaaze]

<DIV>Good update finally</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>removing fear was about as pointless as using Shrug Off or Fiery Fists</DIV>

[Turb]

/Agree <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonnyBlaaze wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>pointless as using Shrug Off <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Well that proves you don't know how shrug off works.  While it isn't quite as good as our buffs, its still quite nice.<BR>

[Moski]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote: <blockquote> <hr> JonnyBlaaze wrote: <div> </div> <div>pointless as using Shrug Off <hr> </div></blockquote>Well that proves you don't know how shrug off works.  While it isn't quite as good as our buffs, its still quite nice. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Deflection from Monks buff is far better then our agi but well, Monks are the defensive brawler and bruiser the offensive ones, so i guess its all right as it is.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Moskito on <span class=date_text>08-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:34 PM</span>

[Turb]

What I meant was I agree that removing fear line was pointless. Glad it's back <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[JonnyBlaaze]

<P><EM></EM> </P> <P><EM>Gaige</EM> <EM>wrote: Well that proves you don't know how shrug off works. While it isn't quite as good as our buffs, its still quite nice. </EM></P> <P> </P> <P>Explain then please, cause Ive been using it for months and not one person Ive used it on has noticed any difference. They used to put me in the MT group to use it, but it really made no noticable difference. The description sounds great, but I dont think Ive ever seen it increase more then 1% of what its suppose to. (think the description is something like 45%)</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by JonnyBlaaze on <span class=date_text>09-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:35 AM</span>

[TheSummoned]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonnyBlaaze wrote:<BR> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P><EM>Gaige</EM> <EM>wrote: Well that proves you don't know how shrug off works. While it isn't quite as good as our buffs, its still quite nice. </EM></P> <P> </P> <P>Explain then please, cause Ive been using it for months and not one person Ive used it on has noticed any difference. They used to put me in the MT group to use it, but it really made no noticable difference. The description sounds great, but I dont think Ive ever seen it increase more then 1% of what its suppose to. (think the description is something like 45%)</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by JonnyBlaaze on <SPAN class=date_text>09-01-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:35 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's the chance of YOU blocking/deflecting/parrying/riptosing the attack launched at the MT. And trust me, it does work. Look at combat spam once in a while. You see something like this "Encounter tries to crush MT, but YOU block". The increase you see on the MT in their persona window prolly comes from the AGI you give them.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[kildarn]

Yep, to see how shrug off works you have to view your combat stats.  It works by allowing you to deflect the shots from the mob headed for your MT.  You don't really see a stat increase on the buffed person from it but if you read the text and check power usage by your healers you can see the effects.

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JonnyBlaaze wrote:<BR> <P>Explain then please, cause Ive been using it for months and not one person Ive used it on has noticed any difference. They used to put me in the MT group to use it, but it really made no noticable difference. The description sounds great, but I dont think Ive ever seen it increase more then 1% of what its suppose to. (think the description is something like 45%)</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Lets say you are fighting a contested and you are in the MT group and you cast SO on the MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, because of your buff the MT effectively has two avoidance rolls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Also, to see when SO works turn on other's misses I believe it is in combat spam).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you guys are fighting Nagalik and he tries to crush the MT.  The first thing that happens is that it checks his avoidance roll.  If he fails he then has a 45% or whatever chance to use YOUR avoidance roll against Nagalik's melee.  So then say your avoidance roll suceeds, you'll now get the spam that says "Lord Nagalik tries to crush MT, but JonnyBlaze parries."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is how it works.  That is also why it gives you an agility bonus, because its upp'ing your avoidance which benefits the target of the spell by having a better avoidance score to roll with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which is why when I'm using this buff on Noah I'm in defensive mode with my ACGF and two +12 agility dolls.  Getting my avoidance as high as I can for his benefit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In numerous parses we've found that me using TV master I on Noah considerably lowers the damage he takes and the amount of times he gets hit.</DIV>

[JonnyBlaaze]

<DIV>Thanks for the explaination, hopefully will get to test that tonight. I normally have alot of that spam turned off so that may have been why I never noticed those messages. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> One last question, TV is suppose to be about the same as SO?</DIV>

[Gaige]

It is except I think your avoidance % is higher and we get deflection instead of agility.

[Gungo]

<DIV>gaige wrote</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is except I think your avoidance % is higher and we get deflection instead of agility. </DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ ___________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>that sucks deflection > agi, but at least it does support moorgard comments that monks have a greater avoid then bruisers</DIV> <DIV>at least we are compensated by the fact we cna buff others avoid better then monks i hope.</DIV>

[Colin MacLaren]

I read we get new Training Choices at 14,24, 34, 44 and 54 now instead of every ten levels.Can someone one beta please list the T4 options ?

[TheSummoned]

<DIV><STRONG>Stances:<BR></STRONG>- All fighter and rogue stances are now 5s reuse, 0.5s cast time, <STRONG>0 concentration</STRONG>, and should overwrite a previous stance when the next one is cast.<BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyindifferent:</DIV>