Bye bye training skills (fast taunt, fast heal,...)

[Turb]

In the latest test update:Training changes:- Every ten levels (level 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60) you can now choose from a list of four spells or arts to upgrade to Master II quality.- This replaces the previous Training abilities, which have been removed from your Knowledge bookSo will the Master II upgrade to heal reduce the timer from 90 to 60 seconds?Will the Master II upgrade to Shout reduce the timer fto 8 seconds?If not, we're further pooped.Mind you, Master II 100 hand slap would be nice.

[jordaann]

<div></div>definitly a 2 edged sword on this one.  1) will be bad to lose some of the abilities that are improvements over existing spells. (Our reduced time heal, templars got to be screamin loud about this - say bye bye to group cures 2) will be good to provide those of us that are not riding around on magic carpets a way to get some of our skills to Master. NOTE: this change is on BETA not test atm <div></div><p>Message Edited by jordaann on <span class=date_text>08-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:27 AM</span>

[kildarn]

Hmm, I see how this could suck.  I also see that they could have just simply not said it correctly and there are still the extra, nice, effects on the upgrades.

[Rumbi]

<P>They may have the same upgrades to our skills.. but maybe not.  I have a feeling that the Monkies have been complaining about their 3 minute heal so much, that Sony decided to get rid of our 60sec reuse timer and force us to use the 90sec timer.</P> <P>On the other hand, I do believe that we'll get some other nice abilities (though none will ever be as good as the 60sec heal) to make up for it.  We'll just have to wait and see what we get.</P>

[Winn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rumbite wrote:<BR> <P>They may have the same upgrades to our skills.. but maybe not.  I have a feeling that the Monkies have been complaining about their 3 minute heal so much, that Sony decided to get rid of our 60sec reuse timer and force us to use the 90sec timer.</P> <P>On the other hand, I do believe that we'll get some other nice abilities (though none will ever be as good as the 60sec heal) to make up for it.  We'll just have to wait and see what we get.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hey, I'm a monk, with good reason to be jealous. Now i'd never wanted Bruisers to get a longer heal, but always wanted ours to be strengthened and shortened in timer.</P> <P>FYI, we don't have a 3mins (180sec) heal,... yet.</P> <P>This is the situation NOW.</P> <P>Bruisers can heal 33% every 1mins or <STRONG>60secs</STRONG> (with training ability)<BR>Monks can heal 26% every 5mins <STRONG>300secs.</STRONG> Whoop. De. Doo. I get to cast it on others... anyone relying on a 5min heal to save them in a group, is clearly outmatched already.</P> <P> </P> <P>AFTER combat changes,</P> <P>Bruisers get to heal every 1.5mins (90sec)<BR>Monks get to heal every 3mins (180sec)</P> <P>We only got the reduced timer after combat changes, currently ours is 5mins compared to the lowest 1min.</P> <P> </P> <P>I don't think any of us get off hoping another class is nerfed, I for one would love to have bruisers keep their faster, better heal.... only wish that monks had the same thing but heal less to compensate for being able to cast on others.</P> <P>On another note of jealousy... after the combat changes, Bruisers end up being better than monks on DPS (as expected) but to rub salt, they still tank better. Bruisers do more damage, and monks avoid more... but avoidance is capped and Bruisers can reach much higher mitigation than monks. I for one would gladly trade 15% avoidance for 10% mitigation.</P> <P>In a group situation, i compared myself with another lvl50 Bruiser. I am wearing fabled chestpiece, necklace, bracer, pants. He has only rare crafted armor. I'm using Sixta's knuckles + prismatic, he was using sharlian maul.  Troubadour, Fury, Templar, Warlock in our group, and myself and him took turns to be MT.  When he was MTing, his avoidance was 8% lower than mine, but his mitigation was 9% higher. Oh well.... heck i'd even trade 15% of my avoidance for 10% mitigation.</P> <P>Like i said though I don't want Bruisers to get their mitigation reduced... but hope we monks get to the level bruisers are at.</P> <P>Just my thoughts, sorry for the long-winded and around-the-bush post.</P>

[Rumbi]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Winnoe wrote:<BR><BR> <P>AFTER combat changes,</P> <P>Bruisers get to heal every 1.5mins (90sec)<BR>Monks get to heal every 3mins (180sec)</P> <P>We only got the reduced timer after combat changes, currently ours is 5mins compared to the lowest 1min.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That makes up for the fact that you can use it on other people.  If i had to choose, I'd rather have a short-timer self-heal than a long-timer other/self-heal, as I assume most others would too.  This would make the classes even <EM>more</EM>  similar than they already are, though, and I think Sony want's the differentiation.</P> <P><EM>Besides, your Group Feign Death far outweighs our 100 damage, 15m teleport punch.</EM></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Winnoe wrote:</P> <P>In a group situation, i compared myself with another lvl50 Bruiser. I am wearing fabled chestpiece, necklace, bracer, pants. He has only rare crafted armor. I'm using Sixta's knuckles + prismatic, he was using sharlian maul.  Troubadour, Fury, Templar, Warlock in our group, and myself and him took turns to be MT.  When he was MTing, his avoidance was 8% lower than mine, but his mitigation was 9% higher. Oh well.... heck i'd even trade 15% of my avoidance for 10% mitigation.</P> <P>Like i said though I don't want Bruisers to get their mitigation reduced... but hope we monks get to the level bruisers are at.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I don't feel like pulling up the quote right now, but Bruisers are <EM>supposed</EM>  to have better mitigation than Monks.  Moorgard said this.  You will never have a higher mitigation than a Bruiser who has the same exact equipment and buffs as you.  On top of that, this Bruiser was defensively buffed by a Troubadour, Fury, Templar, and Warlock has higher mitigation than you.  Honestly, I'm surprised that his avoidance wasn't higher, too.  I'm sure if you two switched roles (and buffs), yours would be higher than his.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I understand that you don't want Bruisers to get nerfed... but when our counterpart complains that we are too powerful, that is what happens.  Your intentions may be to get yourself beefed up by Sony so that you are the same as Bruisers, but then we'd be the same class!</DIV>

[ganjookie]

<div></div><div></div><strike>here is a list of those skills..... <a href="http://www.eq2labs.com/article/Specialized-Training.php" target="_blank">http://www.eq2labs.com/article/Specialized-Training.php</a> [edit] ummm now that I looked at the WHOLE page..bruisers are not on the list... Horray for the underdogs </strike> <p><strike>Message Edited by ganjookie on <span class="date_text">08-25-2005</span> <span class="time_text">01:26 PM </span></strike></p><p>Message Edited by ganjookie on <span class=date_text>08-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:16 PM</span>

[Jezekie]

Retaliation, Fire Stance, Magmatic Fists and Ignore Agony is avaliable as the lvl 50 Training Arts.<div></div>

[Danan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jezekiell wrote:<BR>Retaliation, Fire Stance, Magmatic Fists and Ignore Agony is avaliable as the lvl 50 Training Arts.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And ignore agony arrives in the form of an attack that lowers crush/pierce/slash, this attack was named "Bruise" if i remember right

[Jezekie]

<div></div><hr>Posted below is a list of the revised Training abilities currently on the Beta server. For those of you who haven't read the update notes, existing Training options were removed and replaced with your choice of one of the following abilities at Master II quality.<p>This list is subject to change. Please also note that many of the distinct abilities that were granted only as Training choices (e.g. group cures, Dirge runspeed buff) have already been or will be added elsewhere in the spell line of the appropriate class.</p><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">Fighter</font></strong></p><p>10 Toughness10 Kick10 Shout10 Call to Arms</p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">Brawler</font></strong><p>20 Brawler's Stance20 Taunting Slap20 Flying Kick20 Rapid Strikes</p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">Bruiser</font></strong><p>30 Bob and Weave30 Bruising Spirit30 Eye Gouge30 Jolting Fists</p><p>40 Lava Fists40 Boast40 Burning Lunge40 Ignore Hurt</p><p>50 Retaliation50 Fire Stance50 Ignore Agony50 Magmatic Fists</p><p>60 Resolute Will60 Retribution60 Pressure60 Meteor Fist</p><hr>Source: Moorguard<p></p><strong><font color="#ffcc00"></font></strong><div></div>

[Turb]

Hmmm... Moorgard lies!The L10 training choices are:Jyson's Twirling Fists - advanced form of Assault, Master II, does more damageLu'sun's Spinning Kick - advanced form of Kick, Master II, does more damageVelan's Taunting Cry - advanced form of Shout, Master II, increases more hate with primary targetBeslin's Boastful Posture - advanced form of Taunt, Master II, increases attack speedI took the attack speed training.Beslin's Boastful Posture:Power 7Casting time 1.0 secRecovery time 0.5 secRecast time 8 secDuration 8 secRange 10 mIncreases threat by 116-143Increases attack speed by 7%But the bad news is the loss of a boosted (fast) group taunt.And since Provoke, Taunt and Beslin's share *one* timer, our taunting capability is actually worse at lower levels. Nice one Sony!

[Jezekie]

First off the Test server hasn't been patched with these changes yet, besides that the our Training arts were never revamped before these changes so they remain the same as on Live, only with minor alterations in some cases. Those four you listed are from Pre-revamp.<div></div>

[TheSummoned]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rumbite wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM></EM></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Winnoe wrote:</P> <P>In a group situation, i compared myself with another lvl50 Bruiser. I am wearing fabled chestpiece, necklace, bracer, pants. He has only rare crafted armor. I'm using Sixta's knuckles + prismatic, he was using sharlian maul.  Troubadour, Fury, Templar, Warlock in our group, and <FONT color=#ff0033>myself and him took turns to be MT</FONT>.  When he was MTing, his avoidance was 8% lower than mine, but his mitigation was 9% higher. Oh well.... heck i'd even trade 15% of my avoidance for 10% mitigation.</P> <P>Like i said though I don't want Bruisers to get their mitigation reduced... but hope we monks get to the level bruisers are at.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I don't feel like pulling up the quote right now, but Bruisers are <EM>supposed</EM>  to have better mitigation than Monks.  Moorgard said this.  You will never have a higher mitigation than a Bruiser who has the same exact equipment and buffs as you.  On top of that, this Bruiser was defensively buffed by a Troubadour, Fury, Templar, and Warlock has higher mitigation than you.  Honestly, I'm surprised that his avoidance wasn't higher, too.  I'm sure if you two switched roles (and buffs), yours would be higher than his.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I understand that you don't want Bruisers to get nerfed... but when our counterpart complains that we are too powerful, that is what happens.  Your intentions may be to get yourself beefed up by Sony so that you are the same as Bruisers, but then we'd be the same class!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>He clearly was in the same group as the bruiser as they took turns to be MT... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Danan]

<P>This is what we get when we choose the Ignore Agony as of today.</P> <P>I added the master of Eye rake to show the difference and what skill it actually is.</P> <P> </P> <P><IMG src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/[email protected]/bruisem2.JPG"></P>

[Turb]

Jez, if what I posted are old skills, why are they Master II??I think those *are* the new training choices.

[Rumbi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dananeb wrote:<BR> <P>This is what we get when we choose the Ignore Agony as of today.</P> <P>I added the master of Eye rake to show the difference and what skill it actually is.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Wait a minute.. so it actually upgrades Eye Rake instead of Ignore Agony?  That is odd.. what is the description it gives of the training spell in the window that pops up when you click the green " + " ?</DIV>

[jordaann]

Turbot, What you are looking at are the  training options on the the test server currently.  The list that MG posted is only alive on the beta server.  The test ones do seem to be a bit different than the current live ones.  If i recall the live ones are only adept2, however you are on the test server and the devs probably played around with the skills to see what effect Master2's would have.... That is just a guess <div></div>

[Jezekie]

The first four training upgrades currently avaliable.<a href="http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/1587/training11ji.jpg" target=_blank>Link 1</a><a href="http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/6789/training29au.jpg" target=_blank>Link 2</a><a href="http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/3892/training30za.jpg" target=_blank>Link 3</a><a href="http://img286.imageshack.us/img286/6540/training45hp.jpg" target=_blank>Link 4</a><div></div>

[Turb]

Booger, no heal lines in there <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seems to be a dps vs defence choice in each though.