my petition to change classes

[industrock]

<DIV>This is my actual in game petition in response to the new CU coming out soon.  Some of you may not agree with me, and that is fine.  BTW, i just saw the post about scrappers and evil monks, and absolutely love the idea.  I'm posting this anyways.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.industrock.com/bruiser.JPG"></DIV>

[Rumbi]

I wish it were that simple.  SOE has made an attempt to calm the outraged Bruisers (like myself heh) with the information shown in the below thread: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=7330 Enjoy. <div></div>

[industrock]

<DIV>Yes, i have seen this thread and i think that it is a great idea.  There are too many great people on both sides of the table to totally shut one side out.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, until SoE is the one to release this information, and until i know this information to be factual and correct, i will continue fighting for bruiser dps.</DIV>

[Chuut]

I would be very interested in seeing what the reply to your petition is.

[industrock]

<DIV> <DIV>servers are down right now, so i cannot get the proper quotes, but basically, it was an outsourced GM who replied stating (in newbie talk) that once i made my decision to pick my class and race, there is no way to change it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never expected anything to happen from this petition and only did it as a joke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on the other hand, i logged into test today to check everything out that a lvl 50 bruiser gets.</DIV> <DIV>to effectively use our stances (most of them) we must be unarmed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>while, this sounds like a good idea, we lose out on stat points, and the prismatic quest is virtually worthless to us.  Also, there is no dual weilding your bare hands.  You hit with 1 at a time, in the fashion of using a 1 handed weapon.  To me, it would make more sense to make unarmed combat dual weild, since we are losing out on stats that weapons would normally give us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magmatic Fists, lvl 49.6 buff seems pretty neat.  It's our primary offensive stance.  At apprentice 1, it has a 10% chance to inflict 357-595 damage, under certain conditions.  Also, inflicts 119-198 damage on target, under certain conditions.  Decreases defense of caster by 12, and increases crushing and ranged of caster by 6.4.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This seems like a pretty neat skill.  It would be, if bare handed fighting were faster.  I attack relatively slow with only 1 fist at a time when using no weapons.  To solve this, you can use a staff, or the like to increase your speed, but the extra damage that magmatic fists grants is drastically reduced. i'd say that the damage is probably dropped to roughly 15-20% of the normal damage done with no weapons equipped.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shocking Fists, a no concentration,until cancelled duration self buff can only be used when no weapons are equipped.  This is the skill that:</DIV> <DIV>Casts Thunder Fist on caster.  On a successful melee attack this spell has a 10% chance to:</DIV> <DIV>  Stun target (resist chance increased by 20%)</DIV> <DIV>       Under certain conditions</DIV> <DIV>   Inflicts 37-61 damage on target.</DIV> <DIV>       Under certain conditions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I, personally would like to be able to use at least fist wraps which will augment my speed and damge and give me stats,</DIV> <DIV>OR</DIV> <DIV>Increase the speed of fists while unarmed, and make them dual weild, making barehanded fighting a quicker delay than using other weapons, since we will have no stat points for these 2 slots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Granted, we can use the same weapons as before, but the bruiser cannot be used to his full capability unless weapons are unequipped.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, i would use 3 skills in a row to get maximum ammt of damage done in 3 seconds.  Hammerfist to stun and crush debuff the mob, followed by crushing fury, then savage blows or dirty punch.  Using the 2 skills after using hammerfist maximized the damage potential,as the mob was debuffed for crush.  Hammer fist no longer does this.  I am not happy about that, but that's A-OK with me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You wnt to know why that's ok?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only combat arts that have a cast time are AOE attacks.  The singletarget combat arts are instant cast.  Each skill has a .5 sec recovery time, which is how they used to be.  I feel that bruisers can still be the same DPS that they used to be, while sony has given us the chance to tank now.  Being a DPS bruiser will take more work than it used to, i will need haste items and such to maximize procs from self buffs, but i feel that it can be done.  I will make it happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My only wish now (since its too late to prevent Bruisers from becoming tanks) is that sony would make barehanded fighting attacks quicker and dual weild.  It makes no sense to me how 2 heavy staves can be quicker and both hit faster than a bruiser with bare hands.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will maintain that i am a DPS bruiser, until the day they give us plate armor, or COMPLETELY nerf this class.</DIV> <DIV>I'm off to everfrost where i can thoroughly test my character on Test.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this was a bit informative to those of you, such as myself, that would like to stay as a DPS class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're ever on Permafrost or Test, /m Pathogenn</DIV></DIV>

[industrock]

<DIV>Issue with unarmed fighting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ONE MORE THING.  went to everfrost to kill stuff my level.  A Congregation of Screams is immune to bare hands.  The message states:</DIV> <DIV> Your weapon is not potent enough to cause any harm.  Use a superior weapon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sony?  you make my stances unarmed based, then force me to use weapons for certain mobs, thus making my stances serve no purpose.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This issue may not have come up before, but it will be an issue on release day, as i am a raiding bruiser.</DIV> <DIV>I'll /feedback this on the test server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please fix this, thanks.</DIV>

[industrock]

<DIV>just went to Permafrost and found commander keg.  The lvl 49 fury and i could have easily duo'd that group.  AE taunts still suck, and i even pulled with abuse.  As soon as keg stopped running around aimlessly, he went straight for the healer, instigate didnt pull him off of the healer, and rescue wasnt up yet off its 10 minute timer.  Nice change there, 10 mins for rescue.</DIV>

[Redbed]

<DIV>Yeah I have to say, the stances being unarmed based is the most #$(*ing ridiculous thing Ive ever read.  And thats including the Monk Best of the Best Rules where they allowed the right clicky effect of the celestial fists and disallowed the right clicky effect of the Robe of the Whistling fist (the robe being a similer but less powerful version of the celestial fists buff).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it stays that way they need to just factor our Unarmed as Legendary.  Or different damage types to the stances.</DIV>

[industrock]

<DIV>bad news...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>our combat arts use tons more mana than they used to, and dont even think about getting breeze at a raid.</DIV> <DIV>I've been reading the enchanter forums as well, and their utility was nerfed to all hell.</DIV> <DIV>breeze does a fraction of mana per tick of what it used to, and uses conc slots.  So, i doubt a fighter will get breeze over a healer or mage class.  Also, their magi's shielding uses 3 conc slots, so that leaves 2 for breeze or other buffs/mez that they may use.  Their mez, group invis, and breeze spells will probably not be used.  Their mana drain was nerfed as well.  But, they got in increase in dps and solo ability, since that's what all enchanters wanted, not utility.... NOT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, brigands are going to be melee shaman, with their main role being to debuff mobs.  Non dps mage classes are getting dps upgrades while at the same time losing tons of utility.  Clerics are getting nerfed/upgraded.  Their healing spells dont heal for nearly as much, but will use very little mana, also their nukes are being upgraded.  Lvl 10 cleric with his app1 nuke, nukes for 85 points of magic damage while using 5 mana.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It really is quite apparant that SOE is going to just 4 basic archtypes, and not tons of distinction in between the subclasses.  I, personally would like to see subclasses play completely different roles, and not really have many of them become interchangeable.  Who would ever think of getting an enchanter in the group for his nuking ability?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is not just bruisers that are angry about the combat update.  It seems to be the majority of classes.  The CU will come, and we'll see where each class plays its role.  I'm not looking forward to it, at all.</DIV><p>Message Edited by industrock on <span class=date_text>08-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:33 AM</span>

[Trivon]

<P>OK this thread is just stupid. I am a ShadowKnight and I wish I could be a Bruiser. My class description yada yada is horribly distorted also. </P> <P>You people need to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and thank God you are'nt getting nerfed. Go look at my class and other classes and then come to your same conclusion.</P> <P>All the Bruisers in my guild cant wait for the changes. Things could be much MUCH worse for you guys so just be thankful for once STOP WHINNING.</P>

[ganjookie]

lol, thanks for the laughs.  I highly recomend this thread to all those bored at work and who need a good laugh. 5 S*T*A*R*S* <div></div>

[Rumbi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trivonus wrote:<BR> <P>OK this thread is just stupid. I am a ShadowKnight and I wish I could be a Bruiser. My class description yada yada is horribly distorted also. </P> <P>You people need to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and thank God you are'nt getting nerfed. Go look at my class and other classes and then come to your same conclusion.</P> <P>All the Bruisers in my guild cant wait for the changes. Things could be much MUCH worse for you guys so just be thankful for once STOP WHINNING.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It is remarkable how unbelievably wrong you are.  First of all we <EM>are</EM> getting nerfed.  We are going from being the highest DPS class to the 2nd bottom on the totem pole.</P> <P>If you are a Shadowknight (which I imply from your post) then guess what, buddy.. you are getting the <EM>opposite</EM> of a nerf.  You are getting better Lifetaps and a huge Harm Touch.</P> <P>Do you know the names of the Bruisers in your guild?  If so, ask them why they chose a Bruiser when they wanted to be the main tank.  If this is not the case, give me the names so I can /slap them because we are getting <STRONG>far </STRONG>from "are'nt getting nerfed."<BR></P>

[industrock]

<DIV>thanks knuckle, much appreaciated that theres more than just me out there on the forums who is pro dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also, why are the pro tanking bruisers/monks guildless? gaige was guildless till he did a server transfer and joined my guild.</DIV> <DIV>seems kinda weird to me that the protanking bruisers are alone.</DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> industrock wrote:<BR> <DIV>gaige was guildless till he did a server transfer and joined my guild. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>I was guildless by choice.  Actually, I wasn't even guildless, I just wasn't in a raiding guild.  I was in a smaller guild.<BR>

[Nikki2]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=22089" target=top><SPAN>industrock</SPAN></A>  how did you choose your character ? I hope you wren`t chosing it basing or what bruisers were but on what they should be. It was said all fighters will tank, so all fighters are TANKS and thats their MAIN role. Bruisers still will stay highest fighter DPS. You think we`re getting nerfed ? Well look at your CAs, stat changes and other class changes as well. You really thought it is right that highest fighter DPS class outdamages highest scout DPS class and continue to do so ? You`re not very good player and weren`t using all bruiser`s abilities if you think bruisers weren`t overpowered and didn`t need a little tune down... And don`t say that our DPS will be low, unless it is spetember and you are lvl 60 on DoF beta server.</DIV>

[Rumbi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nikki225 wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=22089" target=top><SPAN>industrock</SPAN></A>  how did you choose your character ? I hope you wren`t chosing it basing or what bruisers were but on what they should be. It was said all fighters will tank, so all fighters are TANKS and thats their MAIN role. Bruisers still will stay highest fighter DPS. You think we`re getting nerfed ? Well look at your CAs, stat changes and other class changes as well. You really thought it is right that highest fighter DPS class outdamages highest scout DPS class and continue to do so ? You`re not very good player and weren`t using all bruiser`s abilities if you think bruisers weren`t overpowered and didn`t need a little tune down... And don`t say that our DPS will be low, unless it is spetember and you are lvl 60 on DoF beta server.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Read the description of a Bruiser from the following and tell me that they are tanks: EQ2 handbook, online description, Fighter class trainer, Bruiser subclass trainer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing mentioned about tanking.. only fighting... and kicking the crap out of things with their bodies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, I would probably say that there are just about as many pro-tank Bruisers as there are pro-dps Bruisers.</DIV>

[Nikki2]

<FONT color=#ffffff>Fighters use brute strength and sturdy weapons to deal physical damage to their enemies. <STRONG>Always at the forefront of combat, fighters stand toe-to-toe with opponents while keeping their allies from harm</STRONG>. No matter the risk, fighters never back down from a challenge.</FONT> <DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT></DIV>

[Turb]

Bah, I want to find weapons to use, that's FUN. Where's the fun in having no weapons? Sigh.Not that we have much choice now...

[ganjookie]

It has also been stated by MG that the flavor text of each class description is for lore and RP  issues.. I spent 1 minute and found a <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=6463&query.id=0#M6463" target=_blank>quote on this board  </a>by one of the more wise posters, and since I couldnt find MGs  post this will have to suffice. <div></div>

[Nikki2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ganjookie wrote:<BR>It has also been stated by MG that the flavor text of each class description is for lore and RP  issues.. I spent 1 minute and found a <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=6463&query.id=0#M6463" target=_blank>quote on this board  </A>by one of the more wise posters, and since I couldnt find MGs  post this will have to suffice.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Thats I why I always said choose class that you enjoying in RPG and not the class basing on current situations becouse it was pretty obvios that game will change. Ohh and btw, don`t say we`re nerfed if you`re not playing on test. I`ve talked to test bruisers and they say our dps increase. /cheer

[Gaige]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> Moorgard wrote: <P></P> <P>Some posters are citing the two-sentence class description on the website as a definition of everything the class should be: "<STRONG>Berserkers are chaotic warriors who inflict heavy damage with all manner of weapons. Their furious attacks overwhelm their opponents, to whom they show no mercy</STRONG>." Some of you have invested your own emotional reactions into what you feel this is supposed to mean, but <STRONG>those descriptions were written to give lore-based flavor, not define everything a class is. It can just as easily be argued that berserkers as they stand today fit that description just fine.</STRONG> <HR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[ganjookie]

thanks G! <div></div>

[industrock]

<DIV>For the non-believers:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) i have a lvl 50 bruiser on test, and i have seen FIRST HAND what we are doing (as of now), so i can talk.  If you had read all of the posts that i made on this thread, you would see that i made detailed comments on what a lvl 50 bruiser on test is like.  Read before sounding like a complete idiot and trying to correct me plz.  k tnx.  OUR COMBAT ART DAMAGE IS INCREASED, for a rediculous ammt of power.   Dont think about getting clarity, as enchanters are being de-utilified and turning into dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) I created my character on release day and hit level 50 and was raiding before any controversy about dps or tank came into play.  Before the statements by MG too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) who'se to say that a FIGHER (one who fights) isnt as in tune with his weapons as a scout?  Who'se to say that a guy using fists and clubs wouldnt deal the same amount of damage as someone who uses knives?  Who'se to say that they SHOULDNT?  Why must all the melee DPS classes in this game use knives?  That doesnt make much sense to me that only knife users can deal lots of damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) Unless they do something about our AE agro, we will still not be good tanks (unless you dont fight mob groups, and only single targets)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5) we are going to be awesome tanks, for those of you who like to tank.  I duo'd with a lvl 49 fury in Permafrost (on the test server) and the fury made a comment about me not taking any damage.  Granted, we were able to duo the mobs, but they took an enormous amount of time to kill because of the lack of dps.  After 15 or 16 combat arts, you're out of power and relying on autoattack to do damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>6) Let us use at least fistwraps for our stances.   Either that, or make barehanded fighting dual weild and have a quicker delay.  We are losing out on stat points when we want to use our best stances.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this is enough for you.  If not, SCROLL UP AND READ before commenting.  Please, thanks.</DIV>

[Splatterpunk28]

<DIV>I see a lot of complaining from all classes about changes.  But, I'd really like to get some clarification on something about the changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are in a group and you are tanking, can you give a parse of your dps compared to other classes.  Now do the same with someone else tanking.  Now get on live and do the same, on the same mobs.  That would clear up everything for me and for many others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been leveling up a bruiser, because I love that on our raids they are always in the top 3classes for dps...AND they have loads of utility with FD and their ability to stun/stifle.  It's a lot more fun doing loads of damage with my fists, having a decent ability to solo and be an acceptable tank if necessary versus running around in a dress and dying in 2swats like I do with my other toons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From the sound of it, bruisers are taking a huge hit in dps (having to rely on combat arts solely that sap mega-power) with the ability to tank a little better, though still not as well as other tank types.  If you can provide the parses, people will have a much better idea of what is going on comparatively.</DIV>

[Nikki2]

<DIV>- Fighter spells and combat arts have received a balance pass. In general, Fighter combat abilities have been made more efficient, either by reducing their power cost or increasing their damage. Please examine your spells and arts, as some effects have changed.<BR> From update posted by Blackguard on 08 / 09 / 05.</DIV>

[Turb]

You say "from the sound of it" bruisers are being uber nerfed in dps.I agree we need relative numbers.Snag is there prolly are very very few bruisers on test of a high enough level.It seems the bulk of bruisers want better dps and less tankability than a guardian. I don't want to be as good as a guardian cos that means I get the dps of a guardian.Sigh.

[Rumbi]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nikki225 wrote:<BR> <DIV>- Fighter spells and combat arts have received a balance pass. In general, Fighter combat abilities have been made more efficient, either by reducing their power cost or increasing their damage. Please examine your spells and arts, as some effects have changed.<BR> From update posted by Blackguard on 08 / 09 / 05.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hmm... sounds promising, considering the only thing holding back our DPS on test is the lack of power, as stated above.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...could Jez, Parth, or anyone else on Test/Beta make a few comments on this change?  Does it help our DPS by a lot? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any info would be much appreciated. :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Jezekie]

<span><blockquote><hr>Rumbite wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr> Nikki225 wrote: <div>- Fighter spells and combat arts have received a balance pass. In general, Fighter combat abilities have been made more efficient, either by reducing their power cost or increasing their damage. Please examine your spells and arts, as some effects have changed. From update posted by Blackguard on 08 / 09 / 05.</div> <hr> </blockquote>Hmm... sounds promising, considering the only thing holding back our DPS on test is the lack of power, as stated above.</div> <div> </div> <div>...could Jez, Parth, or anyone else on Test/Beta make a few comments on this change?  Does it help our DPS by a lot? </div> <div> </div> <div>Any info would be much appreciated. :smileyhappy:</div><hr></blockquote>The Pics I took were after that change. Found <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=7295" target=_blank>here</a>.</span><div></div>

[Turb]

Bugger, that doesn't bode well for any further improvement then <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rumbi]

Thanks, Jez.  I didn't see that you updated your CA list on that thread.  Much appreciated, but I won't be asking any more questions. :smileywink: