Need Help with AGI/STR/STA

[pwn6000]

<DIV>Hi there I need to ask the community a few questions here for the "end game" bruiser.. I level relatively fast and play often in all MMORPGs I play so I wanted to get some info from the people who know what they are talkin about since it seems its a one shot deal. I usually like to min/max chars so can you guys help me out with...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) From what I understand AGI is mitigation and how well you hit.  If I max this and go all AGI what type of bruiser will I be? Will my DPS go up more as I hit more often on raid mobs and/or solo play?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) STR obviously this affects max dmg, if this is maxxed will I hit for more but miss more often than if I had more AGI plus lose the benefit of more avoidance?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not really interested in being a "tank" beyond solo play and groups.. Wasnt even thinking the class should be a tank given the description and  that we dont get plate armor so I assume I should be going for max DPS..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From my know nothing perspective I think I would rather be DPS than a tank and I should max AGI with my choices and +def and such would suit a bruiser better than +sta and a HP number... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any input from informed high level players that are happy with their toon are appreciated : ) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Opa]

<DIV>I would say if you want to be nothing but DPS, the class isn't for you. The devs see it as at least a type of tank, and thus not to compete in terms of pure dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, if you want to play a bruiser and want your DPS to be as high as possible, you should maximize strength. The way the current combat engine works, auto-attack to-hit is extremely high. I have about 150 agi (I think) in dps mode, and I rarely miss at all with autoattack. The DPS yield will be better if you increase strength.</DIV>

[Redbed]

<DIV>Like anything its about hitting gates and points of diminishing returns.  In most raid situations you will be buffed up so pretty much aiming for 200 in your primary choice and 150-175 in your others is a good goal.  What your goal is, is up to you.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Damage - You want to get STR</DIV> <DIV>Avoidance- Agility</DIV> <DIV>HPs - Stamina</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the end of the day if you want balance you should probley go for 150 in each.  I think I have str past 175 and agility nearing 150 but I woefully lack stamina.  No reason for me too since I have 3 figwart leaves I could get made into hex dolls if I wasnt so darn (Is darn okay you #$(*ING filter) lazy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"I wanted to get some info from the people who know what they are talkin "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think your gonna be disapointed.  But who am I to dissuade you.</DIV>

[pwn6000]

<span><blockquote><hr>Redbed wrote:<div>Like anything its about hitting gates and points of diminishing returns.  In most raid situations you will be buffed up so pretty much aiming for 200 in your primary choice and 150-175 in your others is a good goal.  What your goal is, is up to you.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Damage - You want to get STR</div> <div>Avoidance- Agility</div> <div>HPs - Stamina</div> <div> </div> <div>At the end of the day if you want balance you should probley go for 150 in each.  I think I have str past 175 and agility nearing 150 but I woefully lack stamina.  No reason for me too since I have 3 figwart leaves I could get made into hex dolls if I wasnt so darn (Is darn okay you #$(*ING filter) lazy.</div> <div> </div> <div>"I wanted to get some info from the people who know what they are talkin "</div> <div> </div> <div>I think your gonna be disapointed.  But who am I to dissuade you.</div><hr></blockquote>Dissapointed how? Everyone here is an idiot? </span><div></div>

[Opa]

Redbed suffers from an inability to respect anyone who sees things differently than him. <div></div>

[pwn6000]

<span><blockquote><hr>Opaki wrote:Redbed suffers from an inability to respect anyone who sees things differently than him. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Well common sense tells you without plate and massive mitigation you are not tanking at a raid.. So I figured bruisers are situational tanks with higher DPS.. That to me is fine and will work out.. I have read the excerpts people have posted from the devs saying all fighters are tanks but I really dont believe for an instant that we are not by class description and practice a situational tank with higher DPS than the other classes.. I never thought I would be a guardian style tank at all, if I end up that way after combat respec no biggie I had a lvl 65 plane of time warrior I know how to play it and I wont have a ton of other viable tank classes competing for my armor or weapons either.. Or I could stay doing nice DPS either way it sounds like a winner.. But if I were to bet large sums of cash, brawlers turning into guardians is a pipe dream. Hopefully they up our DPS a little, make the scouts better still, and make the raid mobs harder to compensate  FTW. Nothing in the char description leads me to believe we are a tank.. Guardians however clearly states they are tanks.. I doubt they are going to [Removed for Content] off a ton of people cause 4 out of 40 bruisers wants to lose DPS and become a guardian. </span><div></div>

[Opa]

<span><blockquote><hr>pwn6000 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Opaki wrote:Redbed suffers from an inability to respect anyone who sees things differently than him. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Well common sense tells you without plate and massive mitigation you are not tanking at a raid.. So I figured bruisers are situational tanks with higher DPS.. That to me is fine and will work out.. I have read the excerpts people have posted from the devs saying all fighters are tanks but I really dont believe for an instant that we are not by class description and practice a situational tank with higher DPS than the other classes.. But if I were to bet large sums of cash, brawlers turning into guardians is a pipe dream. Hopefully they up our DPS a little, make the scouts better still, and make the raid mobs harder to compensate  FTW. Nothing in the char description leads me to believe we are a tank.. Guardians however clearly states they are tanks.. I doubt they are going to [Removed for Content] off a ton of people cause 4 out of 40 bruisers wants to lose DPS and become a guardian. </span><div></div><hr></blockquote> A few questions: 1) Exactly whose position do you think ideas like "bruiser turn into guardians" belong to? I hope you're not saying that's my position; so who exactly is your foil? 2) Are you aware that Lore descriptions are LORE? They're there for RP purposes, Moorguard has made clear enough that they mean diddley poo. 3) Do you really think Sony cares what any of us envision our class to be? It's their game and their vision, I doubt dps fanboi or tanking fanboi will have anything to say in the situation. 4) What exactly does that rant about DPS have to do with stats?</span><div></div>

[pwn6000]

<span><blockquote><hr>Opaki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>pwn6000 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Opaki wrote:Redbed suffers from an inability to respect anyone who sees things differently than him. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Well common sense tells you without plate and massive mitigation you are not tanking at a raid.. So I figured bruisers are situational tanks with higher DPS.. That to me is fine and will work out.. I have read the excerpts people have posted from the devs saying all fighters are tanks but I really dont believe for an instant that we are not by class description and practice a situational tank with higher DPS than the other classes.. But if I were to bet large sums of cash, brawlers turning into guardians is a pipe dream. Hopefully they up our DPS a little, make the scouts better still, and make the raid mobs harder to compensate  FTW. Nothing in the char description leads me to believe we are a tank.. Guardians however clearly states they are tanks.. I doubt they are going to [Removed for Content] off a ton of people cause 4 out of 40 bruisers wants to lose DPS and become a guardian. </span><div></div><hr></blockquote> A few questions: 1) Exactly whose position do you think ideas like "bruiser turn into guardians" belong to? I hope you're not saying that's my position; so who exactly is your foil? 2) Are you aware that Lore descriptions are LORE? They're there for RP purposes, Moorguard has made clear enough that they mean diddley poo. 3) Do you really think Sony cares what any of us envision our class to be? It's their game and their vision, I doubt dps fanboi or tanking fanboi will have anything to say in the situation. 4) What exactly does that rant about DPS have to do with stats?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote> First of all I dont "rant" I was making a statement..  That being said I am done posting here already as I still have no answers from you theorycraft what if someday dev post hounds.. Thanks!! </span><div></div>

[Redbed]

<DIV>"Redbed suffers from an inability to respect anyone who sees things differently than him."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually its exactly the opposite.  I have the inability to respect anyone who sees things different from themselves.  If you look at the pattern of most arguments.  I will make a statement, someone will refute it using questionable sources, I will call them on their questionable sources, they will ask me proof for my reasoning, I will explain my reasoning, they will laugh and summarily reject it for either no reason or the same questionable sources, I will call them a #$(*ing [Removed for Content], they will act all injured and say Im a uncouth barbarian, I will point out that their a pollyanna princess who shouldnt be a bruiser, and it generally goes downhill from their.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No really, go back in a few threads and re-check the pattern.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But thanks for attempting to explain my personality with such a limited ability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hell, check out that thread on the rapid swings Opaki....I explained the issue much more detailed then you...and provided a solution but who does Jezekial side with and support?  Well, you two must be special friends if you know what I mean!  And I know you know what I mean. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But whatever.</DIV>

[Opa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Redbed wrote: <div>Hell, check out that thread on the rapid swings Opaki....I explained the issue much more detailed then you...and provided a solution but who does Jezekial side with and support?  Well, you two must be special friends if you know what I mean!  And I know you know what I mean. </div><hr></blockquote>I can't even express how hilarious this is. I didn't know you took every question someone posts as an opportunity to compete for the attentions of others who post on this board. Your remarks are homophobic, absurd, and offensive. Not to mention childish and, quite frankly, pathetic. You have done more to prove my point than I could have asked. Can I get a lock?</span><div></div>

[Opa]

<span><blockquote><hr><span>First of all I dont "rant" I was making a statement..  That being said I am done posting here already as I still have no answers from you theorycraft what if someday dev post hounds.. Thanks!!</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>You asked a simple question, and you got a simple answer. Even Redbed and I, sworn mortal enemies, both told you to go for STR. I found your "statement" about what bruisers are and are destined to be speculative, partisan, and longwinded. Rants and statements are not mutually exclusive. Thanks for your patronage. Your departure will make it easier for me to rule this board with an iron fist.</span><div></div>

[Redbed]

<DIV>"Can I get a lock?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Uh...no.  See your trying to end the conversation once again without substantiating anything.  All you did was reverse the blame onto me.  I stated you were wrong, explained why you were wrong and even showed evidence how wrong you are and how you and another person conspire to limit the vision and visions of anyone who doesnt toe the tanking line.  And the best you can do is call me a child....right...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you can get a lock....</DIV>

[Spice-uh-nat]

<P>Seriously, do you two ever shut up? it's freaken annoying - Opaki and other bruisers have the thought of wanting to be better tanks, Redbed has thought of being the dps, both are right and both can have their opinion, now stick that opinion in your pants and leave it there.  No one wants to hear who's more right than the other, whether they are or not.</P> <P>Now, back to the original poster - I'd go with str myself, agi can be beefed up pretty easily and the extra attack and power can't hurt from getting higher STR, but don't go too overboard w/ any of the stats - balanced is probably your best bet, because they all have a use to us bruisers in some way or another.</P><p>Message Edited by Spice-uh-natuh on <span class=date_text>05-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:23 PM</span>

[Opa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Spice-uh-natuh wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Seriously, do you two ever shut up? it's freaken annoying - Opaki and other bruisers have the thought of wanting to be better tanks, Redbed has thought of being the dps, both are right and both can have their opinion, now stick that opinion in your pants and leave it there.  No one wants to hear who's more right than the other, whether they are or not.</p><hr></blockquote>Sometimes I shut up. Others I like to intellectually slum it and engage these debates. If you are annoyed by what I say, or what Red says, or what we say to one another (an increasingly nasty trend) you are free not to read the post. If it bothers you, I suggest you don't. As I've said in the past, I have all kinds of respect for bruisers who think of themselves as DPS. I don't think there's any right or wrong in this situation. I don't remember ever trying to claim I was right, but rather explain my thinking. Doing that and consequently being called a homosexual, I think, has nothing to do with the tank vs. dps debate. It has to do with someone lacking the maturity to have a discussion. There's a concept in law called provocation.</span><div></div>

[Opa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Redbed wrote: <div> I stated you were wrong, explained why you were wrong and even showed evidence how wrong you are and how you and another person conspire to limit the vision and visions of anyone who doesnt toe the tanking line.  And the best you can do is call me a child....right...</div><hr></blockquote>I don't recall when you said I was wrong. In fact, in both this post and the infamous rapid swings post, we both said substantively similar things. That is to say: we agreed. Not only have you not explained how I was wrong about whatever you're referring to, but you have not even disagreed with me lately! In short, I have no idea what you're referring to. I don't believe telling someone to go STR for DPS constitutes a conspiracy to limit the "vision" of the DPS fanbois. Nor do I believe stating that the Rapid Swings range issue constitutes the same. Calling you a child is far from the "best" I can do, but so long as it's most accurate, I will use it. Now, really, just what are you referring to when you claim that (1) we disagreed about something (2) you explained the faults in my position. Also, please explain how making allegations about sexual preference is anything other than childish. </span><div></div>

[WaachBack]

<DIV>Hmm so what about STA? Ive been building my bruiser around STA and AGI, I hope that was the right choice. </DIV>

[Redbed]

<DIV>"Doing that and consequently being called a homosexual"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never called you a homosexual and if thats what you read from "Special Friends" then thats your problem.  That is certainly one connotation and theirs a myriad of others.  Personally I could care less who or what you are doing.  As Long as Im not forced to watch, It really doesnt concern me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unfortunatley if the Mentality you promote takes root and hold I can find my class a different one from the one Ive been playing....AGAIN.  Id rather that didnt happen....least not till some other good games come out to fill them empty spaces in my time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just to add something on topic, I went from 132 - 144 in Agility and all I got was +.8% added to my avoidance....not really a big leap....thats POINT Eight percent....not even one full percent but eight tenths of a percent avoidance increase.  Thats pretty @#(*ed up right there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh hey, want Ironic.  Check this out.  Look for a post by me (Alexyi) 3/4s the way down.  Almost 2 years ago.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://p204.ezboard.com/fmonklybizeq2frm2.showMessage?topicID=20.topic" target=_blank>http://p204.ezboard.com/fmonklybizeq2frm2.showMessage?topicID=20.topic</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I should get a psychic hotline going.  </DIV>