Haste Cap and Floor

[Oidan]

<DIV>I am not in an Uber Guild, I have not been lucky in obtaining rare master Dual Wield weapons or 2 handers. I am currently using the Heirophants Crook. On another Brawler board we have been discussing 2 handers vs Dual Wield Weapons. Some things that I am curious about is the cap on Haste and what is the lowest possible delay a weapon can be? I heard 1.0 but that was speculation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my opinion, unless you get some uber rare master drop or are in top notch raiding guild, you will not get a pair of decent dual wield weapons that can compare to the Crook. Is this a false statement? If so pls enlighten me because for what I have seen on the broker or on drops from exp'n, dw weapons are pretty crappy from a dps stand point. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of our DPS comes from arts. I can time my hits with a slower weapon for greater dps. Fast dw weps will hit the haste floor and max haste buffs will have a loss in return thus making hard hitting slower delay 2 handers better in this regard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is about not being the tank although you could argue the same about tanking I guess to a point. Less ripostes for one (although % difference, I dont know) Yes the stats are better when you dw but are the stats really that much more meaningful</DIV> <DIV>than a 2 hander? I dont think so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use eqpixie primarily as a parser but I just downloaded combat stats not too long ago and trying to figure it out heh. I have not parsed since my 30's but this is when I started feeling this. If anyone could enlighten me on some things that would be awesome. I dont like when people break out the math because there are too many variables that will change. Everything is not just black and white and besides that, it gives me a headache to say the least.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would love to see some T5 weapon comparisons irt dw and 2 handers that are popular or rare.</DIV>

[Jezekie]

The Crook is pretty much The weapon until raid drops from silver chests. And the reason why is because it has that slow but high dammage hit that fits in perfectly between Combat Arts.

[Grift]

I find the proc on the Crook helps a lot with Tanking. It helps keep you on top of the hate list. For DPS I still use fist weapons but the Crook does almost as much DPS in those situations.

[Oidan]

<DIV>So what about Haste Cap and Floor? What is the lowest delay we can make our weapons through the use of outside buffs?</DIV>

[Jezekie]

<blockquote><hr>Oidan wrote:<DIV>So what about Haste Cap and Floor? What is the lowest delay we can make our weapons through the use of outside buffs?</DIV><hr></blockquote>0.1 I guess. Fairly certain it's not 1.0 though.

[Follier]

A tenth of a second? If I was dual-wielding weapons that had 0.1 delay on each I think I'd spam myself to death. Think about it, thats 20 hits per second! If you ever saw anyone hitting like that you'd know it LOL.I think a floor of 1.0 or 0.9 or something like that is far more likely, but thats just speculation on my part.

[Jezekie]

<blockquote><hr>Follier wrote:A tenth of a second? If I was dual-wielding weapons that had 0.1 delay on each I think I'd spam myself to death. Think about it, thats 20 hits per second! If you ever saw anyone hitting like that you'd know it LOL.I think a floor of 1.0 or 0.9 or something like that is far more likely, but thats just speculation on my part.<hr></blockquote>Hehe, point taken. I just vaguely remember someone saying once that the weapons wasn't capped at 1.0, or maybe that's just the voices in my head speaking.

[Rumbi]

I have done some research with the Heiro Crook's damage versus otehr dual weild weapons. Using a Thulian Claw (23-70 @ 1.7) and a pristine conditioned teak quarrer staff (25-75 @1.<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, the Heiro Crook outdamaged them by 2- 4 DPS. Now this is WITHOUT the Earthquake proc, because I was using it on grey mobs. Now I know that there are better weapons out there on the marked (cedar staffs, for example) but it seems that until higher end raiding or new expansions, this is the best bet for dmg output.

[SageMarrow]

(the monks on eq1 hit that fast, i was like quadruple attack with all the hast stacking)

[industrock]

<DIV> <DIV>The chances that anyone has hit haste cap is pretty rare.  The haste that you see in your mainHUD window is not a percentage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>at 100 haste, you are at half your weapon speed.  at 200 haste, you are at half the half (one quarter of your weapon speed)</DIV> <DIV>it keeps going by halves.  I.E. at 300 attack speed, you are doing one-eighth the weapon attack speed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have personally seen my DW weapons hit quicker than 1 sec.   Sometimes it is actually too quick for me to use my stopwatch on  However, this was when all haste effects stacked. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT::</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, just about all T5 rare crafted and metal chest drop weapons for a brawler have the same damage/delay ratio.  This would be 1 two handed weapon ratio compared to (1 DW weapon + 1 DW weapon ratios).  IMO, 2 DW quick weapons are better than a 2h in a long fight due to the fact that missing with a 2h is detrimental to dps parsing, while missing a few times with a DW wep isnt so bad, as you have a 50% chance to do half damage that round, while missing with a 2h wep is a 100% loss in damage for that round).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this is just my opinion, and i could be wrong.</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by industrock on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:46 PM</span>

[Oidan]

I would imagine the hit/miss ratio would be exactly the same for either dw or 2 handed. The dps would scale the same on all mobs.

[CaradosC]

<DIV>I have to disagree with Industrock. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"IMO, 2 DW quick weapons are better than a 2h in a long fight due to the fact that missing with a 2h is detrimental to dps parsing, while missing a few times with a DW wep isnt so bad, as you have a 50% chance to do half damage that round, while missing with a 2h wep is a 100% loss in damage for that round)."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A purely theoritical example but this is how it goes: </DIV> <DIV>Lets say your hit% is 75 with both wield styles. You are in fight 100 secs and are using 2h weapon with 2.0sec delay (dmg 60-100) vs dw weapons having 1.0sec delays (dmg 15-25). That means you have chance to hit 200 times with dual wield, but because of misses you'll hit only 150 times and with avg dmg of 20  ((15+25)/2) you'd do 3000 points of damage. With 2h weapon 50 chances equals 37.5 hits and avg damage was 80/hit means 3000 points of damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> As far as I understand melee dps is purely "average hit damage"/"delay" if you aren't using CA's. BUT when you are using CA you'll loose more (in total number AND in percentage) hits using DW weapons compared to 2H weapon while waiting those skills to land resulting worser melee dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've seen this statement on many posts, thou not really fully explained but it's correct. I even tested it with parser and it looks like the more CA the more dualwielding is suffering. And of course at former example please keep in mind that if you were soloing or MT there you'd received a quadruple amount of ripostes whend dual wielding compared to 2h weps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So imho dual wielding sucks compared to 2h weapons when using weapons of same quality. You do less damage, you receive more dmg. Only positive thing is a bit higher stat bonuses you get when dual wielding but that doesnt compensate even closely drawbacks. So imho only reason using dw is prolly when combining it with brawl. And of course if your dw weapons are much better than your 2h ones. </DIV>