2 handed weapons vs Dual Wield

[Oidan]

<DIV>SInce my mid to upper 20's, I have not been able to find any Dual Wield weapons that compare to 2 handed weapons dps. Is everyone else having the same dilemna? When I MT, I like using a big slow 2 hander but when I am not MT, I want to use Dual Wield not only for the look but the whole immersion aspect. Dps while using Dual Wield is way far behind IMO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My 2 hander is a Feysteel Great Flail</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Dual Wield is a Shrouded Mace and a Pristine Tailored Etched Cestii</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is everyone elses setup and have you came to the same conclusion or am I missing something? Even when using your arts, 2 handers will allow you to even more out distance dual wielding dps wise. The difference is so noticeable even without using a parsing program.</DIV>

[LadySyl]

I agree, I've found I do far more dps with a 2 hander because I can time my specials between swings and not loose any delay time unlike with dual weilding. The only thing that I could see luring me away would be 2 dual weild weapons with very high +agi on them for when I'm tanking.

[Jamboman]

<DIV>i find as i usually am in a group for dps duel weilding fighting sticks (currently nektus pirate batons) are the best way. speed 1.5 each, so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] fast, and do good dmg.</DIV> <DIV>compared to a two handed which'll have a min speed of about 1.8  i think the combined of the sticks are far mre. ( IMO - :smileytongue: )</DIV>

[Sabin the Gre]

<DIV>I'm not technically a bruiser yet (15 twink brawler) but on my 32 zerker I have a fight baton with +10 agi on it.  2x of these = 20 agi.  That is a ton.  Worth thinking about for the shear purpose of adding stats.  I've yet to see a 2-hand weapon with +20 agi or even +15.</DIV>

[benisbor]

<DIV>There are definitely good Dual Wield weapons at 50. The question is whether you want the added aggro of two weapons or the reduced riposte of a 2hb. </DIV>

[LadySyl]

I find a surprizing amount of people forget about swings lost while using specials. In EQ2, since there is no damage bonus or anything like that, a weapon that hits half as often for twice as much will do ~more~ dps because you will loose a much smaller percentage of your attack time to waiting for a special to finish. This trend will continue to be true until we (if ever) get the procs to make up for the difference. This is, of course, assuming equal quality weapons.. a green rusty 2 hander isn't going to out damage a shiny new orange dual weild weapon.

[Mihon]

<DIV>I have personally found duel wielding fists (tailor made) to be pretty effective 1.3 dly 14-41 at 38, I always start a fight using Homon's boxing stance(our martial focus line) and after I have went through my combat arts, I just sit back and rip them up while waiting for the recharge... I get mad dmg while waiting, also keeping in mind that after every combat art used I get an extra 1 or 2 duel wield attacks in.  You will also be able to get your atk up higher than you would with crushing weapons, using our roughhouse line.   I really haven't had any problems with taking agro from main tank using duel wield weapons, maybe I've just been lucky.</DIV>

[stewi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LadySylvi wrote:<BR>I find a surprizing amount of people forget about swings lost while using specials. In EQ2, since there is no damage bonus or anything like that, a weapon that hits half as often for twice as much will do ~more~ dps because you will loose a much smaller percentage of your attack time to waiting for a special to finish. This trend will continue to be true until we (if ever) get the procs to make up for the difference. This is, of course, assuming equal quality weapons.. a green rusty 2 hander isn't going to out damage a shiny new orange dual weild weapon.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Lady Sylvi is indeed correct.. when not using special, at just base auttoattack, DW will equal a slow 2hander. But with specials mixxed in, it is much better to be using that slow 2hander. reason is simple. while winding up for that special, you arent doing damage with your weapons, but the delay timer is still ticking away. so assuming you have 2 dw that have a 1s delay..</P> <P>0s -autoattack primary/secondary</P> <P>0.5s -initiate special</P> <P>1s- weapons should swing, but dont because of special</P> <P>1.5s  -special completed</P> <P>2s- weapons hit again</P> <P>Now pretend you have a weapon with a 2s delay..</P> <P>0s- weapon swings</P> <P>0.5s- initiate special</P> <P>1.5s- special completed</P> <P>2s- weapon swings</P> <P>The above exmples are very simplistic, but they illustrate what happens with autoattack for low delay and high delay weapons. Low delay weapons will do much less damage due to the fact that they are being blocked by specials winding up more often. </P>

[Oidan]

<DIV>I have a parser running everytime I play and even if I dont use my arts and just sit there with auto atk on, I still do more dps with my 2hb. While using arts the distance is greatly increased because you can time your arts for Maximum dps. It is a lot harder for dual wield because you will lose those fast small atks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Tanking I like 2 handers as well because of the riposte damage. You do have a point about the agi tho, stats are always nice but since I will have way less ripostes and my dps will be maxxed/aggro with a 2 hander,  I tend to favor the 2 handers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dalcor,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Could you give us some examples of dual wield weapons and 2 handed weapons at your level? If so that would be awesome man.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some day, I will clear the cobwebs out of my brain and study "the what is probably simple math" to regular human beings, to understand dps ratio formulas. Being Iksar is not easy.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Oidan on <span class=date_text>01-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:21 AM</span>

[LadySyl]

All you have to do to figure out a dps formula is take minimum damage+maximum damage and then divide it by the delay of the weapon. Then multiply it by 2 if it is a dual weild weapon. For instance 10-20 weapon on a 2.0 delay would be 10+20=30/2=15 Use the number 15 to compare it to other weapons, or 30 if it is a dual weild weapon.

[MadJa]

<DIV>Using dual Forged Carbonite Maces at level 26. I have played around with two handers a bit, but haven't found one that excited me damagewise (including the Bo Staff of the Exiled that I got as a drop in Nek Forest--it was blue to me, maces still yellow). It could be that I just haven't gotten my hands on the right one.</DIV>

[D]

<DIV>For the last 6 levels my scorched wood staff has been my favorite, but it will be out of date real soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While tanking I've noticed a big difference between DW and 2H weapons. Using DW while tanking seems to give a much larger chance of riposte damage, and when I reposte with a big hitting 2H staff the damage is a good bit larger as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fistwraps and bo staffs are my weapons of choice, but there are hardly any wraps on the market until my 30's. (so my slashing skill stinks atm)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't like maces very much...I just feel too much like a warrior when using them.</DIV>

[Tren]

I just made 20 withmy bruiser recently and ive have yet to use a 2h weapon. Ive been using fistwraps and DW Staff/fighting batons. I was in Nek last night destroying cackling cadavers that con yellow and orange to me and i was tearing them apart under 30secs with no specials. I was using 2 firwood fighting batons at 1.5 delay. I say under 30sec because the ward given to me by my deflier counterpart was still on when the mob was dead. sick fast damage.<p>Message Edited by Trench on <span class=date_text>01-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:10 PM</span>

[JonnyBlaaze]

<DIV><FONT size=2>Some people say you can do more damage without using any weapons, is there any truth to that? Ive been playing around with it but cant tell wihtout using a parser.</FONT></DIV>

[EQ2Adam]

I'm a level 50 bruiser on Najena and I have parsed 2HB against DW, DW does about 5 or 6 more DPS. For a 2HB I was using Hierophants Crook, probably the best 2HB weapon in the game. For DW I was using Master Cestiis.

[LadySyl]

"Some people say you can do more damage without using any weapons, is there any truth to that?"No. Maybe if you have a green or grey weapon(s), but if you keep your weapons anywhere near updated they will do more dps then your bare hands. Also they give stats.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Quite frankly.. I'll never see my self using a 2h unless they give us a staff with some decent stats. Here's what I'm facing right now (checking my weapons and the broker).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can try and go for the best 2hb on broker I can use (Ebon Eye War Maul) or what I currently have (2x Oakwood Fighting Batons).</DIV> <DIV><BR><STRONG>Ebon Eye War Maul</STRONG><BR>4 Int, 5 Agi, 1 Str, 4 Wis, 22 Health, 26 Power<BR>base 17-51, 2.4 seconds</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>DPS</EM> (base): <EM>14.167</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Oakwood Fighting Batons x2</STRONG><BR>20 Agi, 4 Str, 44 Health, 44 Power<BR>base 5-16, 1.5 seconds, each<BR></DIV> <DIV><EM>DPS</EM> (base): <EM>14</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>So I can sacrifice 0.167 DPS (plus whatever from between combat specials) and the 4 Int and Wis... and get 15 more Agi, 3 more Str, and double the HP and Power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What are my choices in a couple levels?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Feysteel Maul</STRONG><BR>5 Int, 3 Agi, 5 Str, 6 Wis, 40 Health, 26 Power<BR>20-59, 2.4 seconds<BR><EM>16.46 DPS</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Oakwood Quarterstaff x2</STRONG><BR>12 Agi, 12 Str, 38 Health, 50 Power<BR>7-22, 1.7 seconds, each<BR><EM>17.06 DPS</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Even better. Higher in theoretical DPS (closer in real DPS with the specials issue), and it has 9 more Agi and 7 more Str, and twice the Power. Toss in an Oakwood baton instead, and even better Agility over Strength</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I find stats play a major role in my ability to tank. Also, something people may not have noticed, but if you attack with multiple weapons you create aggro on a per hit basis greater than just the DPS itself. That's why a big hit for 500 won't always pull aggro onto the DPS person since you are plinking away at 4x 100s. I've found Rapid Strike + Eye Gouge to be just as effective (if not moreso) as Taunt skills. I don't know how many times I've pulled aggro <EM>after</EM> the MT uses his taunt <EM>heroic opportunity,</EM> by simply using Eye Gouge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing about lots of little hits... if you are on the top of the list for aggro, then hitting for more damage will do nothing. When the scout hits for lots of damage, or the healer does a group heal, and you are in between your 2.5+ second hits, you start to fall down on that list. I tried using the Skullsprainer... I constantly lost aggro in my normal groups using my normal tactics (well, prior to the wizard nerf.. could be different now). The more people that are doing heavy aggro pulling, the better it is for you to have more attacks being tossed in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course.. if your sole issue is to cause the highest DPS possible.... then why are you playing a tank? Just kidding :smileyvery-happy: ... if that's what you are looking for, then switching to a decently statted 2hb would be a good idea. I just find myself in a Tanking or Off Tanking situation far too often to bother with getting a 2hb on hand.</DIV>

[fur]

<DIV>Ok ive been using statilizer alot last week (s) and i get the direct opposite result, i tried using feystel cestis X2 vs Feysteel maul, now i tested this on those grove badgers (they are all level 32 so no differance in ac etc) i was teamed with a trouby who had my str pumped up to 180+ and same with agi also using haste.. First 5 kills i used cestis and no buffs with trouby just holdin back and lettin me kill the badger with only using autos (this took awhile btw=), then redid the same 5 kills with maul. Conclusion was that dw was about 2-4 dps higher in every fight , on these mobs i had a hit % of 100% as well. I now redid the same test but this time using intimidating as well as spamming damage skills, result this time around was 2h in the lead with 1-3 dps! I did a last test using Brawl (adept 1) and using skills and now dw was up by 3-5 dps, so my conclusion is that if your tanking 2h is very viable, however as i find myself in dps role 10 times as often as i do as tank dw is simply better, and the reason for that is brawl which boosts my fist skill with close to 20 which means im hitting with the accuracy of someone almost 4 levels above me. So in conclusion, if you tank alot then 2h is very viable , if you like me find yourself as 2nd tank / dps more often then dw is better (at least 37+), i truly wish they could add better stats to 2h staffs though, even with hiero you only get like 9 st and you can get the same with just 1 dw weap, the hp / mana is decent on most 2h though but the attributes are way to low.</DIV>