Tanking as a Bruiser

[benisbor]

<DIV> <P><SPAN>In a few recent posts people have still been saying Bruisers cannot tank. These people are falling into the trap that I and many others fell into at lower levels: thinking that lower level trends continue. At level 50, I scarcely ever group with Warriors or Crusaders. I form my own groups now with myself as tank because I truly prefer it -- Bruisers and Monks are just plain better tanks, in my opinion, because while they may take more damage when they get hit, they seldom if ever *do* get hit, and all the while doing amazing dps.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>What you will find at level 50 is that Guardians may take a tiny bit less damage than the Bruisers or Monks, but they do so little damage in return to the mob that fights take considerably longer, thus draining more mana to heal. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>At about level 42 I noticed the difference. Moving from Rivervale to Permafrost, I immediately became the main tank in all of my groups. At first I was somewhat worried -- only a few levels earlier mobs had eaten me alive. However, most of my concerns were not based in fact, but rather on inexperience. I had *assumed* that Bruisers couldn't tank well because whenever a Guardian lost agro and I got hit, I *really* got it. But this is a silly notion. Of course when the tank lost agro I took a lot of damage. I wasn't prepared to tank: I had no defensive buffs up, no deflection increases -- just a few shreds of light armor. Still, when out of the blue a Permafrost group (level 42+ zone, unless you quest for access) asked me to tank, I said no way; but I ended up going, and was more than surprised to see that I was tanking red mobs (level 47+), and doing it very, very well. I was only level 42. Then, the very next day, I figured I'd fall back on my own habits and form a group with myself as dps and a typical Guardian as the main tank. Low and behold, the group was not as good. The cleric was almost perpetually without mana and the other DPS members were lower on power because the fights were longer.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>This is what I did at level 42 to tank 47+ Giants:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>1)Keep your defensive buff on at all times. I believe at level 42 it was Bouncer. Later you will get Retaliate. This will significantly reduce damage taken, especially if you can pick up an App 3 version or higher. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>2)Engage the mob with a taunt (Slurred Insult, and later Instigate) to help keep agro. This is a no brainer.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>3)Immediately use your deflection skill (the Martial Focus line of skills). By level 42 you will have Battle Fury, and you will never replace it. Once Battle Fury is up, you should barely be being hit at all. Note that Battle Fury doesn't last very long. Sometimes it will last an entire fight, sometimes not, depending upon how fast you are putting down the mobs. It really doesn't matter. The fact that for a short amount of time for every single fight you become almost invincible should be a wakeup call to those who think we can't tank.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>These are the essential elements that I had to use every fight. However, on certain level 50 mobs that dealt out a lot more damage, I needed to relieve a bit more pressure. Luckily, the Bruiser has the tools to do this, as well.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>4) If still taking a bit too much, use Hammer Fist or your stunning ability. This will buy you about 4 seconds of clean, damage-free combat. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>5) In conjunction with this, use your knock-down ability. Your first is Haymaker, and you'll be using Crush 40+. This knocks the mob down and thus gives you a few more seconds of not needing heals.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>6) Jeer / Boast. It used to be that on ^^ mobs I found the Bruiser taking far less damage than on multiple ^ mobs. This makes sense, because your deflection abilities are less likely to succeed if the game has to make a roll for them on every hit from multiple mobs. On the other hand, however, I found that 42+ it generally does not matter. ^ mobs compared to ^^ mobs are wimps, so while they come in numbers they are less likely to succeed on a hit anyway and if they do they hit for significantly less. However, if you do get adds of any sort and simply want to relieve *even more pressure*, quickly switching targets and fearing away an add with Jeer or Boast, then switching back (you can switch back to the original target even while the cast meter is still going to fear the other), is an effective way to handle the situation. And as an added bonus you increase agro. Note that in a select few zones Jeer / Boast don't work. I've noticed that goblins tend to be more social than other mobs. However, in 99% of the zones I've fear-mezzed in, Jeer / Boast have been totally effective and have saved my butt countless times. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>When combined, these moves make the Bruiser a tank *every bit* as formidable, if not sometimes better than Guardians. There are entire fights were I will go without taking any damage. And to be true, as I starting moving up past level 42, it wasn't necessary to be so religious about using this routine. By level 50, for instance, I didn't even need Battle Fury or my defensive buff to tank better than Guardians because the mobs, being at maximum even cons to myself, just couldn't win the rolls against my deflection skill. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Folks, there is a reason Sony has given you your own line of taunts, the ability the stun, the ability to knock your enemies down, the ability to beef up your defense a slight amount permanently and a TON once<SPAN>  </SPAN>every fight – all of these gifts are gifts with a purpose: tanking. But they must be used together. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>I realize that at low levels you are feeling like you suck. Believe me. I posted about how much I hated Bruisers every night before level 40. But something just clicked around then. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Note also that the above series of tanking moves should be applicable to all levels as a formula for tanking.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P> <P><SPAN></SPAN></P></P></DIV><p>Message Edited by benisbored on <span class=date_text>01-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:50 PM</span>

[Kizr]

<DIV>you sound like a smart bruiser who knows your stuff. im level 30 and i can tank pretty well now and i think your right about it all. ppl think b/c we wear light armor we cant tank but even i know thats not true and im not high lvl. i tell you what this post makes me want to lvl up even more though to see how much better we get</DIV>

[NecroR]

<DIV>im only lvl 24, but i can tank good. some groups ive been in even recognize me and mention that i shoul play main tank over guardians and sk's. i have alot of agility, and top end gear tho, for tier 3. thats probably why.</DIV>

[Angelvar]

<DIV>a very good post, to which i fully agree.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since i started i have been tanking in my group(s)...my usual group only has one healer, a defiler and the mana consumption on heals when i am tanking is low...no problem either with multitanking.</DIV> <DIV>Many ppl just dont bother with Jeer / Intimidate...its a perfect ghetto crowd control combo...that added to our insane dps / huge mitigation make us indeed close to be the best tanking class if not the best.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did notice from experience that bruiser + defiler is the best combo in terms of heals, small patch heals + ward combined with most bruiser's offensive skills results in mob not hitting much, bruiser taking low to 0 dmg and defiler not burning all mana on heals...bruiser + cleric doesnt work as good tho.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Djaggernaut 31 bruiser</DIV> <DIV>Najena </DIV>

[Dzhoka]

<DIV>Good post. You make me eager to level up my brawler <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Roland_Descha]

<DIV>hello all</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  i'm currently playing a lv 25 sk on mistmoore and i got around to thinking about my class and tanking.  while i know from the traditional viewpoint (which is heavily encouraged by soe) warriors and offshoots are supposed to be the best tank i had a recent encounter that made me reconsider this.  I was grinding my way through aq after bloody aq until i hit upon a much better way to finish them than get into weak groups and get xp debt, i just enlisted the aid of a lv 31 assassin friend of mine (i would highly recommend this as i knocked out 3 aqs in about as many hours) anyways as i was watching him tank mobs that cond grey to him i was like hhhmmm they arent hitting him for much, which i commented on this, he responded to me they arent hitting me at all.  It then dawned on me that evasion is just as powerful (if not more so) a tool than "tanking".  Being a d&d player i naturally started to think monk as they have high evasion and upon further contemplation i 've even played campagins where monks were the front line fighters while fighters snuck around the back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I said all that to say i firmly believe that brawler offshoots can make very capable tanks and i'm glad to see a few people start to post on this, i am going to roll a brawler myself when i get home today and give this a shot.  Also i can definitely see where people are not going to be very receptive of brawlers as tanks because it goes against the image that soe has created around the classes, so when it comes to that there is just going to be alot of ignorace and prejudice towards brawlers until they can be convinced otherwise.</DIV>

[benisbor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Roland_Deschain wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so when it comes to that there is just going to be alot of ignorace and prejudice towards brawlers until they can be convinced otherwise.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Correct. People see light armor and scream like children; what they don't realize is that our armor is, on many bases, inconsequential. The method by which the Brawler tanks relies upon not getting hit, period -- and Brawlers are quite good at doing this. Such a tanking method is also increasingly effective against mobs that are a little lower than yourself. Whereas a guardian is guaranteed to be taking damage from virtually any mid-range mob, the Brawler is likely to breeze through any non-yellow encounter unscathed. </BLOCKQUOTE>

[benisbor]

<DIV>I posted a thread in the Priest forums, because I was angry that so many priests still held the misconception that Monks / Bruisers are as the Monk in EQ1 was. There is an enlightening discussion proceeding there, where I think some of you may benefit by talking some very ill-conceived notions out of some silly priests' heads. </DIV>

[justfr]

Nice post man... I'm normaly the tank for groups i put together in RV between 38-40. Whilst im great at tanking mobs that are facing me..Problems come if i start to get hit from my side or back , I go down like a lead balloon.Is there a new skill after 40 that solves that problem?

[Southe]

<DIV>I give up on convincing pick up groups that I can tank, truthfully i prefer to just dps, less work for me, but, i have been in groups when everyone is like, we need a tank, and ask, Krace, can you tank? and i tell um straight " I tank better then most guardians, but i lack the motivation to show others the light " which is true, my friends that i normally group with prefer me to tank, which is ok, cause i know they know their jobs, and I do mine. When it comes to pick up groups, the stigma of light armor monks/bruisers tanking is so deep rooted, i choose not to fight it, id rather sit back, relax, and dps rather then take a leadership role and smart tank. There have been occassions where the guardian/zerker sucks so much [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] that I just get fed up and take control, but thats rare.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can bruisers/monk tank? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For exp purposes, yep, do they tank better then guardians? yes, in certain situations, but who reads the " in certain situations " part of my response, all people who have EQ1 on the brain only see the " yes " in my response.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can bruiser/monk tank high end raid mobs? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dunno, i doubt it, but who knows, we kick so much [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] maybe we do. personally imo i feel a guardian with mitigation will always do better on high end content raids ex: vox blah blah blah..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do i care if people think we suck [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] at tanking? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nope, i prefer they do, cause once the masses realize how good we are, every other fighter class will be screaming for nerfs or want to be us, from an exp group stand point. I mean, seriously, hasn't the bruiser suffered enough? we got jacked on our break through skill, we got jacked, with off centered choppy animation on our AQ armor, or some skills dont scale up properly, hell, our lvl 40 and 50 " fun " spells get us made fun of... and yes, we getting fixed, which makes us even better then we already are but for the higher up bruisers, its little too late, we passed the skills or are passing them by the time it gets  fixed, minus the deflection increase from innate round shield.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im sure some guardian or cleric or what not will come onto this thread and start giving examples of why we suck at tanking yada yada yada, but who cares, I dont, to those whose opinions matter to me, know that I can tank, thats all I need to concern myself with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>plain and simple. smart playing by all classes, means that yes, bruisers/monks can tank. High end raid content, thats somethin totally different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/rant off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krace</DIV> <DIV>35 Iksar bruiser</DIV> <DIV>" I'm a fine wine, I only get better "</DIV> <DIV>Unrest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Southern on <span class=date_text>01-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:25 AM</span>

[D]

<DIV>Bruiser is such a blast...if you see something that needs to be done you go do it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If that means taunting and getting smacked around a bit then so be it...if that means flanking your target and whacking them in the head with your stick while letting some poor tin can get beat up that's fine too.</DIV>

[fur]

<DIV>I agree about us beeing able to tank, biggest boost to bruisers tanking ability though is agi buffs, i cant stress this enough, as i play in the same group every day and one of my rl friends in that group drives a troubadour (=)), who get an awesome line of stat buffs i know how big differance 50+ more agi makes, were all in the 30>40 range and are currently deployed in RE, we have played around with alot of his buffs as trobuys get alot of buffs but not enuff conc so we tried his proccs heals etc , as soon as we dropped the stats buffs though things took a turn for the worse, gobby ´slavers , yellow dual arrows who ripped my shammy ward mabbe once or twice tops in a fight (4-5 hits) were suddenly poppin them down almost as fast as the defiler could put em up, so remeber to get good agi gear thats my advice, i lean very strongly towards strength normally (barbarian bruiser) but as i progress in levels i notice that although str is good its also (just like in eq1) the easiest stat to buff while agi aint as easy to buff as most buff classes dont get agi buffs at all. Ive also noticed that for every 10 level range 10>20 , 20>30 etc there usually 3 or 4 different "sets" of armor easily available, they usually have very similar stats but they boost one stat higher then the other like +7str +5agi and another boost +5str +7agi, pre 30 i always went with str gear now im instead searching high and low for those extra agi+ .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yeah we tank with the best of em providing we have the right gear, buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gestalt79]

<DIV>Agi buffs one of the reasons I feel Fury are a good choice for healing Bruiser and Monks.  Shaman classes probably the best overall, but Druid lines get some very nice agi boosters.  Somewhere's around 40-60 atm for my Fury, between a couple group buffs I always keep up and Savagery and Predatory Salve (both of which are only app1, been looking to upgrade em both, but had cashflow problems, hehe).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even with my guilds SK tank, he notices mobs hit him less, particularly greens and low blues, when I'm grouped versus not.  Just yesterday we were duoing some treants in Nek, and we killed the named group.  He hardly, if at all, got touched and was kinda shocked.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if it helps SK, it definately helps the brawler types even more.</DIV>