A Reflection

[Schnaup]

<DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><FONT color=#993399> </FONT><FONT color=#993399> </FONT></FONT></P> <P>First off, let me say I love my class. Being a DPS class is always fun, because the results are immediate. We solo well, in groups we chainsaw like no other. Overall, this class is highly fun and exciting to play.</P> <P> </P> <P>However, it seems to me like we are a ‘sleeper’ class. Let me explain.</P> <P> </P> <P>A day or so ago I got into a group, and was asked by the Shadowknight what role I filled, because he was not familiar with bruisers. My answer to him was typical: “Well I can tank, but I prefer to be DPS.”</P> <P> </P> <P>The problem there was in fact I have been asking myself that very same question my whole class career. What DO we do as bruisers that is unique?</P> <P> </P> <P>Yes, as many posts on this board elaborate on, we CAN tank. But forgive me here, we can not tank WELL. A shadow knight can tank in ANY situation, we tank better then some, worse in others. (Here is a hint: get wards from shamans.) I won’t get into the argument of tanking, but I am sure all can agree that we need specific combinations of good players and classes to be able to tank efficiently. Which I am O.K. with, frankly we should be situational tanks.</P> <P> </P> <P>As far as DPS in concerned, yes we are GREAT DPS, steady damage output. Are we better then the assassin sitting next to you? The answer is yes in some situations, no on others. Comboed with a high damage output class, such as assassin or wizard, we rock. Realize that we do wonderful DPS in ANY situation, agroed or not, tanking or not, multiple mobs or not. (Hint 2: make sure the mobs are in your front arc.)</P> <P> </P> <P>With all that said, I still think we need loving care. I have taken an inventory of my abilities at level 32, and realize a lot of them are BROKEN. As in: not working as intended. Ignore Pain doesn’t increase whether or not you have App 1 or Adept 3, nor does Bob and Weave, Intimidation Orders or the plethora of other buffs we have. Our Stun abilities? Naw, they don’t work. How about Bouncer? It raises Tranquility: everyone celebrate! And don’t get me started on our ‘fun’ spells… I have resorted to collecting eyes to get illusions that are fun rather than insulting.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sony has been and is addressing a lot of these problems: I like the idea of raising our AC and evade skills. (Frankly I think we should be able to use chain, but oh well.) It looks like the abilities mentioned above are being looked at on the test server. It seems our best asset will be that we are going to be high DPS with wonderful side effects of our attacks. Look at the list and you see what I mean: debuff, self haste, additional damage etc all based on our attacks. I just hope they fix all those wonderful abilities so I can start seeing the results.</P> <P> </P> <P>The good news is: The class still is fun to play EVEN if we are broken. Every time they ‘fix’ something of ours it seems like a bonus because we do fairly well as we are now, broken and all. We are secondary as far as grouping goes, and probably always will be. When making a group, a leader will always insure a healer is included, a ‘true’ plate tank is there, and an evac or mez class is preferred. As bruisers, we will get into group as ‘additional’ DPS almost as an afterthought.</P> <P> </P> <P>In the end, I am O.K. with being a ‘secondary’ class. Go ahead and pick that shadow knight first: I do just fine standing behind him and beating the snot out of the mob. The assassin next to me does massive damage, I agree. I will just sit here quietly and do my comparable damage consistently while he gets all the ‘Wows, I hit for 800.’ (As I do multiple 100s at the same time.) Group needs a tank? I can fill the role just fine as long as the healer is good. Complain the whole time that you need a ‘real’ tank as we XP waiting for one, it doesn’t bother me. (Just realize that I did not die the whole time we waited. Or don’t, no worries.) Casting classes do WONDERFUL spells, debuffs mezzes etc. Congratulate them, they are absolutely a necessity. <SPAN> </SPAN>(My attacks lower AC, slow the mobs attacks, etc but do not need to be noticed, nor can be seen on a DPS parser.) In the end, we are secondary classes, but you will ALWAYS need us as secondary classes. Would you prefer two shadow knights over a shadow knight and a bruiser? How about two assassins? Two enchanters?</P> <P> </P> <P>So I have just begun to learn my role as a Bruiser. We are the silent sleeper class, steadily being a strong archetype in groups and solo, meanwhile just getting better as they implement improvements to fix the oversights of release.</P> <P> </P> <P>And yes, we get the break peoples faces the whole time this is occurring. What more can you ask for?</P> <P></P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Schnaupps on <span class=date_text>12-27-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:29 AM</span>

[Aelis]

<DIV>Excellent post.  I couldn't agree with you more.</DIV>

[gazz]

every people will choose asassins insted of our class as support for tank, cause the have EVAC. Most of our skills r useless for group and i dont think that we outdamage a scoutclass.... maybe we hav emore luck with more Dps or group buffs whatever

[NecroR]

<DIV>I do more damage then my bros brigand, hes [Removed for Content] and thinks bruiser need a nerf lol. but yeah, i dont care how [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty they are they are fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>me and a warlock duoed blues and greend with up arrows without a healer. since thats what will miss me alot more than evens + worked out nicely.</DIV>

[gazz]

with killing greens and blues u dont come far in this game....

[Southe]

<DIV>I only tank with defiler friends, we know each others strengths and weaknesses, for pick-up groups its straight dps, I find its alot easier for people to think we cant tank, less work for myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I enjoy the job just as much as when I played my 61 iksar monk, if not more. Play dead adept3 rocks, wanna up grade stop heart at lv42, should work really well at 50. alot of our nice master spells are huge dmg increasers for example. app3 grapple does around 240ish maybe more, at 35 master I grapple is 400+ , our utilities aren't useless even though they are broke, eye gouge, bob and weave, fierce punch all help for soloing and grouping and at 40+ the upgrades for them are even better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont mind all the negativity about the bruiser class, makes me more unique. but alot of people that group with lv30+ bruisers are starting to see how cool the class is if played by someone knowledgeable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>on a side note, i have seen alot of bruisers with some of the worst gear, even IoR or lv8 grey stuff, and wonder whats up, decent armor and weapons isnt hard to get at all, and even app3 arts are useful =(</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krace </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Iksar bruiser</DIV>

[Kwonryu_DragonFi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> gazzmo wrote:<BR>with killing greens and blues u dont come far in this game....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>All the way to 50 if he wants... </DIV>

[gazz]

the chance to get a masterspell or a rare for adept3 is small, and not every people want to harvest all day long.Scouts outdamage us without skillupdates and best items. Its the same in tanking, i parry the first and the second hit and at the third hit i get down to orange. how should i tank in a high end content and who would choose me as a serouisly tank... oh i forgot yay today i get hammerfist that should stun the enemy and i was lucky to have a adept for it, was testin it on a enemy and wow it stuns the mob for 3secs with 30 sec recast time wow what a great skill.....

[Ghaleon]

</FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> gazzmo wrote:<BR>the chance to get a masterspell or a rare for adept3 is small, and not every people want to harvest all day long.Scouts outdamage us without skillupdates and best items. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Adept 3's are very feasible to get, you just have to have the patience to get them.  Kinda the point ~.^   As for scouts...that's their job. </DIV>

[Ghaleon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Schnaupps wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3><FONT color=#993399> </FONT><FONT color=#993399> </FONT></FONT>How about Bouncer? It raises Tranquility: everyone celebrate! <HR> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>pretty sure that one is just a typo in the description=P<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>overall though, I know what you mean.  I have to say though that i enjoy my class very much, and i like the fact there are so few of us.  Honestly to me, this class plays and feels like my old Beastlord.  Starting weak, people not understand the role - getting a little sprucing up and shining in the end.  Not to mention the utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Manuel]

<DIV>/Agree</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Excellent post, end of that story.</DIV>

[Alexia_Wheaton]

My alt is a Bruiser and I really love the class also.One night in Edgewater for an AQ4 group I nearly didn't get an invite. There were 5 of them and they needed a "tank". They were dubious of my abilities to tank the mobs. It was fun when after about 3-4 fights the healers said I could way outtank the SK(yes the same level as me)that was with them earlier and we had a long successful night <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[runamonk]

Agreed, with the right healing an sk cannot tank us mob for mob and hit for hit because we get hit so much less. I tank all the golems in RoV all the time. Did it last night while our guardian was afk. Not a big surprise, I like dps and crowd control more, would be nice to have some additional skills for controlling mobs when a chanter isn't possible. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[gazz]

To tank the Golems is not a problem, there r alone....did u ever tank a group of 4 or more mobs?its nearly impossible to hold the aggro. Man we we have one Ae taunt and that is from lvl 3 with recast 30 seconds.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Stop using your grey skills and use your upgraded abilities. Use your group buffs (i keep posting this, but I continuously see "only 1 ae taunt"). You have exactly three AE taunting abilities that should be appropriate for your level: AE Taunt (one encounter only), AE Attack (dangerous if you aren't aware of surroundings... which you should be anyways), and Group Buffs (which also affects all things attacking your group, but no risk).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Using combinations of those three I've never had any issues with keeping aggro for groups. Also, it's a good idea to train your group to NOT use implicit assist, and have them target a single mob. That way you can toss a few of your single aggro abilities around (eye gouge, crush, fierce punch, etc) on other mobs to keep up aggro. Either have a Main Assist seperate from the Main Tank, or teach the group to latch onto your first target, then let you roam without them following you and nuking a random, lower taunted mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously.. if all people are doing is pounding the Shout ability in level 25+ encounters, it's no wonder they feel something is wrong. Try using the abilities that are given, and keep in mind that anything with an effect equals extra taunting power.</DIV>

[justfr]

Great post.. We are the most fun class to be by a mile.Got master1 Bouncer the other day.. hasnt helped me much so i agree bouncer upgrades are broken.Eh got master1 Grapple the other day , Hit a evil eye for 515 at lvl 36.. that was well worth the 20gp. Bruisers are machines....If u still believe u suck as bruiser after lvl 31 .. u will suck at any class, cause u just dont know how to play.

[gazz]

oh so then what to do as bruiser if u get one group of mobs added to the group were u in fight withit? U sounds really optimstic^^

[runamonk]

<blockquote><hr>gazzmo wrote:To tank the Golems is not a problem, there r alone....did u ever tank a group of 4 or more mobs?its nearly impossible to hold the aggro. Man we we have one Ae taunt and that is from lvl 3 with recast 30 seconds.<hr></blockquote>aye did it with golems last night and today. You're still trying to use old skills. I never have a problem holding aggro, sometimes have a problem stealing it back once it's fully taken hold on a caster who has gotten a little spam happy but thus far it's worked out well. Our level 31 taunt works decently, with that and casting my group buffs I hold aggro fine.

[runamonk]

<blockquote>Using combinations of those three I've never had any issues with keeping aggro for groups. Also, it's a good idea to train your group to NOT use implicit assist, and have them target a single mob. That way you can toss a few of your single aggro abilities around (eye gouge, crush, fierce punch, etc) on other mobs to keep up aggro. Either have a Main Assist seperate from the Main Tank, or teach the group to latch onto your first target, then let you roam without them following you and nuking a random, lower taunted mob.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Exactly, I couldn't have said it better myself. This is a good tactic for all tanks, not just bruisers.