Bruiser: the lamest subclass in eq2?

[benisbor]

<DIV>I'm a Brawler, level 17, and haven't a clue still whether I want to be a Bruiser or Monk. I was a Monk in Eq1 and loved it. In eq1 monks were not the best damage or the best tanks, but they had a concrete roll as pullers. Now, in Eq2, I don't see any concrete roll for either the Brusier or the Monk. But if forced to choose between the two (and at 17 I'd rather not start over), I'm really turned off of the Bruiser</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Bruisers are just ridiculous. Their skills range from "Eye gouge" to "Slurred Insult" to "Bouncer." They're like drunken bar-fighters, which is fine in commonlands but becomes a fantasy game laughing-stock when you start killing high-end dragons by gouging their eyes out (when they're fifty feet too high).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beyond this, I'm still conflicted, however. I've still *no clue* which class is more useful or better. I do know that I hate the idea of the bruiser, though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ben</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[psubull]

<DIV>It is a fitting title if you're a troll, :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Teche]

<DIV>Please dont choose bruiser.</DIV>

[AsheBail]

<DIV>Actually I think they have picked a better name for the class.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think maybe pugilist would sound better.  </DIV>

[KBB]

<DIV>Benisbored said he didnt know whether to be a bruiser or a monk. well if ur good you have no other chose than to be a monk if ur bad u have to be a bruiser. BTW if u dont like the class just change it.</DIV>

[p0p-he]

<DIV> <DIV>K, Ben? yer talkin about how unrealistic it is fer a bruiser to gouge out a 50 foot dragons eyes. let me ask you, how realistic is it for a gnome to totally tank and destroy a war elephant? which happens to be like 10 times bigger than the gnome? or how about snakes kicking, explain that one? before you go on about the games realism think about all the other stuff that dosent quite fit into the "real  world". all I have to say is, learn something before you start complaining.</DIV></DIV>

[DrWigg]

Well not to harp on reality, it's actually an inconsistancy in the game. If the gnome that tanked the war elephant did it with a skill named "Super Claw Block" then you would have the same situation.edited for a more correct situation.<p>Message Edited by DrWiggly on <span class=date_text>11-25-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:30 PM</span>

[Goris]

The only thing wrong with the Bruiser subclass is the name IMO, as has been stated before. Stating that skill names like 'eye gouge' aren't fitting is rather silly, as you didn't contrast to any of the better sounding names "Meteor Punch" or "Iron Skin Style".

[RDescha]

<DIV>You, sir, deserve a /bonk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You said yourself in EQ1 monks weren't the best tanks or the best DPS...Sure they were good pullers, but so were bards, pallies, rangers, hell even clerics and enchanters. (The classes all had a harmo or paci of some sort, don't bother arguing. ;p ) I realize monks might have been one of the best along with bards and maybe rangers (Depending on the situation), but I wouldn't really choose a class to be my group's pull-bitz...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruisers are like an EQ1 monk, not the BEST tank...But sure ain't the worst either. Not the BEST dps, but also, far from being bad. In fact, I'd like to parse my DPS compared to some of these scouts...I think you might be surprised...Why? Not saying bruisers are built for better tanking and dps, but they can do it pretty close near equal if you know how to play your class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many times I have noticed myself putting out just as much damage (If not more) than a scout, or tanking just as efficiently (If not better) than some warriors...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To quote some citizen of FP I heard on the street..(And this quote is probably not exact, I'll just sum it up...but you'll remember it if you've heard it possibly...) Your birthright isn't everything, greatness must be earned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm pretty sure SoE dropped that in for a reason. Not to say it's JUST for bruisers...I'm saying I think it's there to remind players you can't pick a class expecting it do everything for you. Any class can be great, YOU must make it great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plus, if you've noticed, bruisers aren't very common...This might because the class is difficult. The easy way isn't always the best way...Adversity is a good thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you don't feel a brawler/bruiser is for you, I'd change classes. I'm level 17 as well, and I love it...Keep in mind you haven't even developed the classes full potential yet...And I've seen a few 20+ bruisers, I'm friends with them actually...All they've told me is I can look foward to making it there.</DIV> <DIV><BR>So, to summarize, here's what I'd say your best options are...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Double check to see if you really dislike the class that much, take a look at other 17s....not that impressive, I promise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) If you really don't wanna be a bruiser, look into a monk, read their forums, etc...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) If all else fails, research other classes, and make a new char. There is NO point in playing this game if you're unhappy with your character..It's all about fun man. Do what makes you the most happy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[benisbor]

<DIV>Please do not infer that clerics, wizards, etc., came close to being pullers in high end raids. They all had specific harmony type gigs and could be pullers in strange, unique situations, but the monk was the puller for 99% of the high end game. That was the monks role. Now, the bruiser doesn't seem to have much of a role. I take back what I said about eye-gouge, etc... I was a bit putoff by those ability names, but the game is inconsistent in many other ways, as well. More than anything, however, I am angry about the lack of balance with the Bruiser. They seem to have about 2/3 the AC of most classes of the same level, including rogues, who do twice as much damage as them. I've grouped with Assassins the same level as me who can tank twice as well and outdamage me *even while tanking.* I have the Bruiser cestus and all orange gear -- this is not an issue of bad equipment. I'm very dissatisfied. At the moment--and yes this is premature--I can think of no role for the Bruiser to play that some other class can't play better. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RDescha]

<DIV>Level 17, right? Keep in mind you're not a bruiser yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And like I said, if you're idea of a "role" is being the group's pull-bitz, maybe a bruiser isn't for you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You must be doing something wrong, because I tank better than some crusaders and a few warriors. And I also do more damage than some scouts. And again I'll say, we're not even BRUISERS yet, only brawlers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wouldn't complain about being bruiser if you're actually not a bruiser yet...</DIV>

[Roddy]

<DIV>Give it time your just level 17 most of the people saying stuff are only 17 20 21 just play it out stick with it. Find the uber loot to make you the best lol. Iam to far in to quit 30++. Like i said before i always hear them praising assassins in my group for a mob going down fast. Which in reality it was me that dropped it like it was hawt. But i dont care i have a feeling that sooner something big will happen for bruisers have hope we still kinda in beta.</DIV>

[TheVipeR]

<DIV>I thought Bruisers were supposed to be major damage dealers! **ZOMG**? Are you telling me now that a Bruiser's DPS sucks? I just became a Brawler and was thinking about becoming a Warrior... am I gonna get screwed?!?</DIV>

[jedi-te]

<DIV>i just hit lvl 20 yesterday. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for the last few levels i have deffinitly been doing TONS of damage. </DIV> <DIV>my dps for sure has been the best in any group i've been in. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my tanking is litteraly hit and miss. </DIV> <DIV>when i get hit, i usually get hit pretty hard. but i barely ever get hit. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>an inquisitor i grouped with last night said it was the first time she'd ever seen a bruiser. </DIV> <DIV>she said, "wow, i guess bruiser is really great!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>overall, i'm very happy with this class. i just love to see a the non-stop flurry of orange numbers above my targets head. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Alphab]

<DIV>First like the others said.. ' if you dont like it, switch.' besides at 17 your still a brawler maybe wait till 20 to give it a valid opinion.  And another thing i was a monk in eq1 as well, so you should know as much as i do how bad they screwed that class.  Of course it would be nice to tank better and have an overall higher dps, but ya know what.  You can't have your cake and eat it too</DIV>

[IPCDoll]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheVipeR21 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I thought Bruisers were supposed to be major damage dealers! **ZOMG**? Are you telling me now that a Bruiser's DPS sucks? I just became a Brawler and was thinking about becoming a Warrior... am I gonna get screwed?!?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Nah, Bruiser DPS is great.  I am a Brigand and I think my DPS is quite good but I am always thrilled to have a Bruiser in group.  Just don't set your expectations so high that you want to vastly outdamage everyone else in group and you will be satisfied.  Keep in mind also that a lot of people compare raw DPS to the scout classes, and our damage is pretty steady and good I agree, but rarely to people consider that Bruisers/Berserkers, etc. pump out that killer damage even when facing their target.  If I get agro or am forced to attempt to off-tank, my DPS is in the toilet.  (When I am on Brigand break, I play a Qeynos brawler and I appreciate that luxury)

[psubull]

<DIV>Bruisers rock with damage.  PLUS, if they equip a weapon, the damage cap on the weapon increases a little more than any other class.  Look at it.  Have a SK or a Guardian or a zerker, or even a scout equip something like a staff, and you'll see that a bruiser, with the same/less skill will have HIGHER max damage cap with the weapon than other classes.  Pretty nifty eh?<BR><BR>The point is, everyone tries to define a class.  "Soandso is DPS" or "Thisclass is a tank".   Stop.  It doesn't do anything but frustrate yourself.  Eye gouge is a TREMENDOUS ability.  It takes a huge steaming dump on the mob's accuracy, which helps GREATLY for whomever tanks.  Don't knock it til you try it </DIV>

[Sheperd]

I have gotten frustrated along the path of the bruiser as well but I still love it. I think the one thing that really bothered me is when I was being the mt at 21 for giant wretches in fg. I went to pull them and before I got back it had hit me twice for over 900 damage. Like a double attack in eq1. Of course I died instantly even with group buffs. It was close I almost survived but Not quite. Now that sucked. It was orange ^^ tho. I have noticed that anything thats like blue ^^ or below is pretty easy to take on as long as it doesn't have some good special move or spells, anything white ^^ or above just rocks me. Pretty good for mobs you are supposed to group to kill.

[NoodleNogg]

I love the name and the concept. I wish our armour was skin tight WWF wrestling outfits."Hah! Little Elf squash good!"

[Quickfingers]

<DIV>At lvl 24, Im not disappointed with the class, just with the names of the skills and some of the animations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why couldnt we have cool skill names like, Head Butt, Body Slam, Pile Drive, Throat Punch, Rib Crack, Knee Crush, stuff that sounds and looks more fitting of the "raw physical damage" we are supposed to be portraying.  <FONT color=#0033cc>Oh well... color me partialy disppointed. :smileysad:</FONT></DIV>

[psubull]

<FONT size=3></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sheperd_b wrote:<BR>I have gotten frustrated along the path of the bruiser as well but I still love it. I think the one thing that really bothered me is when I was being the mt at 21 for giant wretches in fg. I went to pull them and before I got back it had hit me twice for over 900 damage. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG>FG IS NOT A LEVELING ZONE.  STOP LEVELING THERE:  THAT IS THE ONLY PROBLEM. </STRONG></FONT><FONT size=3>Now that I've gotten that across... Try leveling in a non-raid zone, like Nek(at rumbleroot saplings) or FG (anywhere)</FONT></DIV>

[Windy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quickfingers wrote:<BR> <DIV>At lvl 24, Im not disappointed with the class, just with the names of the skills and some of the animations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why couldnt we have cool skill names like, Head Butt, Body Slam, Pile Drive, Throat Punch, Rib Crack, Knee Crush, stuff that sounds and looks more fitting of the "raw physical damage" we are supposed to be portraying.  <FONT color=#0033cc>Oh well... color me partialy disppointed. :smileysad:</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Throat punch is L33.  I found the adept book for it yesterday. =P</P> <P>Really, you start off pretty strong at 20, due to having a huge deflection ( 139/100 ) this is kind of a tease though, since you won't gain deflection for another 8 levels.  At 27 you'll be 139/135, and 28 140/140.  In the mid 20's it sucks, and sucks hard.  You get several pretty lame abilities, and your defense doesn't get much better, while the mobs get stronger.  </P> <P>I'm 29 now, almost 30, and i'm slowing recovering for the 8-level rut.  I've been getting some nice abilities each level, and I got Play Dead, which at adept I, actually works!  FD worked sometimes, but it was only a last ditch move, since it was pretty much going to fail most of the itme, which assured your death as you lost all chance of avoidance.</P> <P>One of the things i've found that hurts the most, is the very large amount of kick'n cloth, chain and plate armor everywhere, along with tons of swords, axes and spears.  There are a few fairly nice crushing weapons, but they are rare, and good leather armor is almost non-existent.  You can find a few drops that mimic the teir 3 rare crafted, but I haven't seen anything cool for teir 4 yet.  In leather that is, i've seen some cool teir 4 cloth, chain and plate.  I can only hope it's just bad luck.</P>

[Windy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> psubullet wrote:<BR> <FONT size=3></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sheperd_b wrote:<BR>I have gotten frustrated along the path of the bruiser as well but I still love it. I think the one thing that really bothered me is when I was being the mt at 21 for giant wretches in fg. I went to pull them and before I got back it had hit me twice for over 900 damage. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG>FG IS NOT A LEVELING ZONE.  STOP LEVELING THERE:  THAT IS THE ONLY PROBLEM. </STRONG></FONT><FONT size=3>Now that I've gotten that across... Try leveling in a non-raid zone, like Nek(at rumbleroot saplings) or FG (anywhere)</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Wha...?  Fallen Gate isn't a leveling zone, it's a raid zone?  Says who?  You, obviously, but wherever did you come up with it I wonder.</P> <P>Fallen gate is a great place for exp.  It's not as easy or as profitable as the land of milk and honey aka qeynos areas, but it's got several cool quests, some nice drops and plenty of mobs.  And it instances, so the lag isn't as bad as Nek, which doesn't instance and is always overcrowded.</P>

[Sheperd]

First of all I never said I was leveling there. I was in a full group at the time just trying to do an aq with them and they needed wretches. There were two healers in the party. If I had been warded before I pulled I woulda been fine. We had just killed a giant wretch or two before I pulled this one and they were wooping my **mods 4 teh win!!1!** but we still beat em. It really isn't going to matter what zone I go to because It's not about fighting an easier mob to stay alive. It's about not being able to tank something a plate class can. I had been killing wretches down there a couple times before and tank classes could tank em no prob. It's not just the wretches that destroy me either. It's anythiing that is above a certain level in there that starts do do insane dmg like at least 100+ normal hits and then 200-400 plus on special hits. That HURTS! I have soloed down there on the mobs that were just 1 or 2 levels lower that were green and blue ^^ to me at 21 to 22 in like 2 hours or something. Plus I was completing aq3 and boots of malic and skullcrusher. That was some of the best exp I hve gotten because that pond is mostly safe at level 21 and u just pull what you want with shurikens. At level 21 anything white ^^ or above would destroy me completely while anything blue ^^ or green ^^ I could solo with no worries! As soon as I leveled it became the blue^^ that would destroy me. I don't think any mobs with ^^ should be able to be soloed but I do think we should be able to tank ^^ mobs that a plate class of equal level can tank. I have tanked these mobs before and been kept alive but it's always close and if there is an add that is tough attacking me too it's over no matter what. You can't even chain heal/ward me fast enough with 2 healers, without mez on the other mov it's over. Maybe in a couple of levels I'll be able to tank them but by then they would be green and the plate classes will still be able to tank em better. I do use brawlers stance and martial focus but really it doesn't make to much of a difference. Bruising spirit might be the key to help us but I don't think I wanna wait that long and besides we can't keep that skill up all the time. This is just my experience in my last week of playing. I am level 22 now and dissapointed that I ran into a wall. I never had a problem tanking before that at all. Now that I can't really tank those mobs but the plate classes can I really feel put out. I don't even like being the mt it's a lot of work pulling but I have to be in some groups where there aren't 2 tanks and I just won't do it now because I know I'm just going to put my group in exp debt. I think I'm going to switch over to my alt gnome dirge. I think I would have more fun as a utility class. Bruisers might fluctuate on their abilities in levels right now because the game is still out early so I urge the rest of you to push on through those levels or hope you group with really good healers all the time heh.<p>Message Edited by Sheperd_b on <span class=date_text>12-11-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:39 AM</span>

[benisbor]

<DIV>I wish I never posted this. I'd like the Bruiser to be tuned a bit, but I absolutely love it now -- love it. </DIV>

[Pauleh]

<DIV>I see bruiser as a class who can do DPS and Save groups, I mean when ive had adds in groups id jeer em away etc, or if we are really in trouble id take all agro run off and feign death and let my group get away, its all good.</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<DIV>Totally agreed Pauleh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It might be a bit "different" from the standard, but when you get area taunt + fear, a self heal, and feign death, you can control "crap happens" situation very well. I've consistantly saved a group from adds before, by simply hitting Jeer, running the enemy away, and as long as no one else did any aggro, FD and watch them wander away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The unfortunate side effect can be that FD doesn't work (woot for Master I !!), and you might be too far to get xp/quest credit/loot if you need to run far or stay away too long.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing I like doing is grabbing aggro off the healer/wizard. They usually have to run far to get to them, which means the MT following to get aggro can really screw up the rest of the mobs and attackers.</DIV> <DIV>I can run up, taunt and lay on the damage, and almost always grab aggro (unless something weird is going on, like those mobs that ignore taunt or "stick" to people). If it's going to be too tough for me, I bring it towards the MT, he taunts, and I FD clearing aggro (if it works). It's like an instant de-aggro, as I often get right back up after it turns to the MT and I can start wailing on things again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scouts get evade. We get the last ditch effort FD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We seem to be a class that fulfills it's role by flirting with danger. If deflection doesn't take.. if that FD didn't work.. you can drop pretty quick.</DIV> <DIV>Definately a rush playing a Bruiser in a tight situation.</DIV>

[Pauleh]

<DIV>Nicely said</DIV>

[strykfa]

<DIV>First of all I am happy that so many people love this game there are a few thing I dislike about the game but I look past that and deal with it because it does not hinder my play experience.  Second of all I am glad to see so many people from EQ 1 comming to try a NEW experience.  Now as for people complaining about "in EQ1 Monks did this and Monks did that and I dont know what I am supposed to be and blah blah blah"  one thing for all you complaining <STRONG>WELCOME TO EQ 2</STRONG> its on every load screen this is not an expantion this is not a rerealese it is <STRONG>EQ2</STRONG> and dont forget to read the load screen befor opening your mouth or typing about "well in EQ1 this happend and in EQ1 this happend to".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shadowstryk  </DIV> <DIV>Strykmidnight</DIV> <DIV>blackburrow </DIV> <DIV>lvl 17 brawler</DIV> <DIV>lvl 21 defiler</DIV> <DIV>guild <Hate></DIV>

[Kulpr]

I personally start getting frustrated with a class when its the only one I play on a daily basis, took a bit of break from my bruiser rolled up a druid. Went back few days later to find myself enjoying the class once again. Prolly just me but playing the same class constantly burns me out and I start to pick it apart to the point where i start whining about it. Roll up another toon take a break you might be suprised how much it helps. Also you quickly realize that the grass always looks greener on the other side.

[X-Kevl]

<blockquote><hr>Windy99 wrote:Really, you start off pretty strong at 20, due to having a huge deflection ( 139/100 ) this is kind of a tease though, since you won't gain deflection for another 8 levels. At 27 you'll be 139/135, and 28 140/140.</P><hr></blockquote>I am almost certain that this is a bug. I remember that I have read somewhere that it has been reported, but I cant remember if there has been an answer from a dev or not...Though if they fix it, it will certainly be 100/100 at level 20, going up over 135/135 at lvl 27 and so on, so it will be fixed, but somehow nerfed at the same time.<blockquote><hr>Windy99 wrote:There are a few fairly nice crushing weapons, but they are rare, and good leather armor is almost non-existent. You can find a few drops that mimic the teir 3 rare crafted, but I haven't seen anything cool for teir 4 yet. In leather that is, i've seen some cool teir 4 cloth, chain and plate. I can only hope it's just bad luck.</P><hr></blockquote>This is soooo true. I have NEVER come across a good Staff or Knucklers or even Fistwraps. All good drops are for plate wearing classes as far as I have seen. I think they are leaving us a bit behind there, maybe because our voice is not so loud, because there arent so many Bruisers... But this problem is known in all other MMORPGs.The classes that are played the least get the short stick.

[fur]

<DIV>Ok thought i would add my 2cp's to this thread, as a former zerk now bruiser i must say that the the notion about all warrior arch's beeing "able to perform the same job", i found abit doubtful. First of all, having alot less ac is truly hampering the tanking, yes deflection is very good at times but sadly abit on the chaotic side, we do get tools to neutralize when deflection takes a break mainly fd but you cant use fd when beeing the mt. I dont think were supposed to be mt's to be honestly and im actually glad about that, we CAN do the mt's job but as i see it we perform better as the mt's sidekick or just plain and simple dps. And concerning our dps.. we blow every other warrior arch out of the water, and not by a little. I truly look forward to some parsing done when ppl start to hit 50 and i would be surpsrised if we dont come very close to scout classes in consistent dps, sure they might get "spikes" of higher damage but we shouldnt be far behind. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alot of people are still locked into the notion of "ol" eq where you had a tank then added a healer / buffer and then just added dps (rogues/wizzez) and thats how a group was meant to be and any deviations to this "core" group was frowned upon, In eq 2 i think alot of old eq players (me included) is starting to realise that here there isnt truly a perfect group setting as even shadow knights can be useful (hehe i had to say that sry =).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I have no doubt whatsoever about bruisers beeing just as needed and wanted as the other warrior archs maybe even more so, however it takes time for people to realise that we are actually a very solid choice for a group and the best way to make that process of understanding go faster is to keep showing people what we are capable of . Keep the faith brothers and sisters!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Skull" Kithicor server</DIV>

[Paradoxcl]

<DIV>I have difference in opinion about the bruiser....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pros: -Its a fun class to play</DIV> <DIV>          -animations are uber</DIV> <DIV>          -its a rare class</DIV> <DIV>          -You solo, tank and DPS pretty well</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cons: -People rather choose scout over bruiser as DPS</DIV> <DIV>           -People rather choose a real tank instead of bruiser</DIV> <DIV>           -It can be tough to find a group from time to time</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2cent</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Paradoxclaw Maggotmuncher</DIV> <DIV>35 Iksar Bruiser</DIV> <DIV>Runnyeye</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>