Where are all the munk tanks?

[ReficulFonwaps]

<DIV>70 SK here just browsing the monk forum to find out more info on your class. Seems like every single time I group with a monk they don't wan to tank. I get tired of tanking sometimes and want to kick back and dps, so I'm like "hey bro, you want to mt now?" and they are all "um..uh...tank?". What gives, some monks (all the ones i've met) are giving monks the reputation of not being able to tank. Do most of you guys roll a monk to be a tank, or roll a monk to be some sort of second rate dps?</DIV>

[Kinless]

We are out here, just a bit fewer and farther between these days. A lot of monks never got to spend the time developing tanking skills as there were some rough spots for us untill recently. As for why did I roll a monk ? I liked the versatility of the class, and the challenge of playing it. <div></div>

[Bladewind]

<P>The image of a monk tank is pretty damaged right now because of the avoidance issues that were present in KoS and the first week or so of EoF. Unless a person made their toon more than a year ago, they had to cope with some pretty poor mechanics when tanking heroics and epics.  We're definitely fixed, though.  I was in the tanking rotation for Gorenaire last night and was told by the healers that healing me was no different than our regular guardian MT.</P> <P>I rolled a monk because I thought the idea of an avoidance tank sounded fun and because I enjoy eastern martial arts in general.  The added versitality is nice, but tanking was what what attracted me to the fighter archetype.  </P>

[Karamonde]

when i started a monk it was from my EQ1 feeling, now casual monk have more capacity to tank, well i still not equiped well enough to be our guild mt, and we suffer a lot of prejudice done in the past.But as debated often here, EQ2 monk is an odd bird, nor a full tank, nor a full dps.  SoE have give us detaunt skills, one day we might end in the scout tree, wouldnt hurt that much for a lot of people.  They even gave swashbuckler tanking capacity : pon a side note, since nda is left, Vanguard monk is full dps, a la EQ1 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> at least i found back my shoes there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[SouthernAvenger]

Aye before the new expansion monks wern't even considered a option as tank. I dont believe i was a mt for my group untill my late 50's and even then i was always thrown aside for a plate tank. The majority of monks out there just dont have the experince needed to succesfully be mt in a group. However since the recent changes i've been asked to tank alot more often then i was. We are finally getting to the point where we are becoming a viable option. For the monks who dont want to tank, their just lazy and should have rolled a true dps class.<div></div>

[psubull]

I join as DPS sometimes and end up tanking.  Usually I just tank off the bat.  However, I don't group out of guild often -- when I do, I end up with the most braindead healers.  Doesn't matter how good of a tank I am, the healer is half the battle.   <div></div>

[Bladewind]

<P>I don't have any issue at all with those choosing to focus on dps exclusively.  We have AA trees that allow you to focus one way or the other - like all fighters.  I just get upset when the blanket 'brawlers can't tank' statements get thrown around like feces at a zoo's chimpanzee exhibit.  If I join a group, I don't care if I am the tank or not so long as the existing tank is doing a decent job.  If they aren't very good, I might offer my services.  The flip side of our 'all fighters can tank' argument is letting those other fighters tank in our presence <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I wish more non brawlers would learn how to dps, though.  Even fully tank-specced, a skilled fighter in offensive stance with solid weapon(s) and some dps gear (imbued rings at the least) can pump out decent dps.</P> <P>I have a dpsing paladin.  I'll tank on him when asked, but gladly defer that responsibility to any other fighter in the group because he is geared completely for damage rather than defense.  Does that mean I run around claiming crusaders cannot tank just because I can lay down solid dps with mine?  Nope.</P> <P>Our raid alliance has put brawlers, warriors, and crusaders in front of end game epic mobs.  So long as the player's gear and skills were up to snuff, they have done fine, regardless of which class of fighter they were.  Certain encounters are naturally more-geared towards certain fighters, but things are finally balanced to where any fighter with appropriate skill and gear can tank just about any encounter.</P>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> psubullet wrote:<BR>I join as DPS sometimes and end up tanking.  Usually I just tank off the bat.  However, I don't group out of guild often -- when I do, I end up with the most braindead healers.  Doesn't matter how good of a tank I am, the healer is half the battle.   <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree fully here.

[Logan]

<P>I have been pretty lucky with my guild groups letting me tank lots all along for any 1 group instances we go to. I haven't raid tanked much since that's where I play my assassin but tanking is the best it has been for us monks now. I did gear my aa in that direction. Personally I would rather tank while playing monk than dps but that's just me. If I ever do pick up groups it is always a struggle to sell them on me tanking until they actually see it's pretty good. Not gonna say we are better than any other class at it but definitely more than adequate and my guildies enjoy taking a break from their tanks to dps or play their alt.</P> <P> </P> <P>Logann , Kithicor</P>

[Illustrious]

<P>for grp instances monks are pretty much as good as any tank these days better in some ways cause of good dps at same time. Epics still better left to the guards/zerks but monk can still tank epics when required tho not as efficiantly.</P> <P> </P> <P>and for me i play monk for fun, good grp play, good solo play (tho worse solo by far since eof) and medoichre raid play tho can do ok dps and ok tanking can be replaced by many classes that can do either of those much better.</P>

[Eugam]

Me sucks at tanking <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> My sense of orientation is non existend. I wanted a fighter alt, thats why i rolled a monk. But usually i am soloing. I really only tank if i am sure to know the zone, or when duoing. So most of time in guild and mentored down <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Kilgrim]

<P>Half the time I end up tanking, half the time dps.  Seems I do a good enough job at either role.  Not fabled apart from a couple of pieces, most masters.</P> <P>Oddly enough the reason I put so much time into this toon is the versatility -- I still think we have it all -- and my aa is again the generalist, splitting between getting the inproved taunting, 2h staff Twirl for group aggro, heal, crits!  I don't care about min-maxing:</P> <P> </P> <P><EM>Specialization is for insects.  </EM>Heinlein</P> <P> </P> <P>I am hardly uber, but I can tank any of the bread-and-butter instances in kos or eof, and raiding in pickup raids I sometimes lead the dps if the groups are made up in my favour.</P> <P> </P> <P>Besides, the real reason we are monks is that we look the coolest in a world of cardboard cut-outs!</P> <P> </P> <P>Gentle</P> <P>Knights of the White Shield</P> <P>Splitpaw</P>

[Almeric_CoS]

<DIV>I love to tank, though groups don't always want me to.  Sometimes I find it frustrating when a group would rather have a plate tank that is 3-5 levels (and anywhere up to 1500 or 2000 hitpoints) below me, just because his mitigation is higher.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BUT, the other day I was grouped with an SK in that situation and he said he would rather tank because "SK DPS sucks."  Never having played an SK, I don't know if that's true, but since we monks are so versitile I find myself taking pity on those poor plate tanks and just slide myself into the DPS slot <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Quind]

I personally love to tank, and will take any opportunity I can get to tank for people.  That said, I don't group much right now outside of my usual duo, and tanking for the dirge is pretty easy.I'm looking forward to gearing up and finishing out my build so I can get into some bigger and better tanking situations.  Just getting tired of having people laugh at me in 60-69 every time I ask for stat benchmarks or suggestions.  At least my guildmates aren't tools who tell me that I can't tank.  Think I'd have to guildremove if that crap started in /gu.<div></div>

[Isa]

<P>I have tanked with my monk ever since I came back to playing the game about 4 months ago.  I have had little to no problems (save for some minor hiccups right after EOF, came out).</P> <P>Done properly, we can do just about as well as most plate tanks and we get to enjoy a little better dps.</P>

[Aelona]

Well I am a 49 monk and I love to tank.  My rl bf is a 70 beserker and got me into the game, when I started playing my own character I picked a ranger.  I didnt like the ranger and after lvl 20 I told him, I want to do what you do, but I dont want to wear the plate armor.  (Cause as stupid as this sounds I am a girl and was totally new to the game so I was concerned about looking cute.)  So he said I could be a monk or a bruiser.  I picked Monk so I could start in Qeynos.  I am really good at tanking and I get really annoyed because I will get into groups with plate armor toons several levels lower than me that cant tank worth a crap but the group doesnt want me to do it because I am a monk.  Its bull!  Now there are a few people in my guild that always want me to tank so I play with them.  I hate all the crap and arguing about wether or not monks can tank. 

[RipFlex]

<P>We are just not efficient Tanks, sure I can do Heroics if I don't get lots of adds, and I never consider Epics unless x2.  Not that I suck I really consider brawlers have the worse toolset keeping Group aggro and managing adds, I know this because I Power Leveled a Rat Guardian to my Rat Monk and my Rat Guardian mostly Mastercrafted/AD3 out can tank yellows and oranges in Heroic instances way better than my Legendary/Mastered out Monk at 70th level in Survivability and holding Group+adds in Aggro.  It's Black and White IMO.</P> <P>My Monk now Harvest/Solo and collect shinies in danagerous areas...</P> <P>Why work 4x as hard holding agro when you do not have to ?</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by RipFlex on <span class=date_text>01-15-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:21 PM</span>

[JudyJudy]

<P><EM>I think it's really based on how you want to build your class - both with arts, skills and reputation.</EM></P> <P><EM>Some monks I know go the DPS route and don't even put taunts on their hotbar, others - live for the MT or MA position in any situation - heroic or epic.</EM></P> <P><EM>In my opinion, I believe many create the monk class to solo, do quests, enjoy the mediocrity of settling solely with class mechanics to level.  They use the monk as an alt to farm for plat, do quests, maybe even tradeskill.  Few take the reigns and reap the joy and skill from a fully played monk - DPS or tanking.</EM></P>

[Ryuugekitai]

<P>Well I do enjoy DPS and Tanking (especialy since my guilde lacks both dps and tanks, so I fill in where I'm most needed). I do like both play style as long as I can change from one day to the next. And I do ok tanking.</P> <P>Yesterday I tanked HoF. Everything went well from top to bottom, except for Septimus.</P> <P>Anyone tanked that monster lately ?<BR>The problem I have with this guy : His CA bypass avoidance completely. They go right trough Tsunami.<BR>He uses 2 for what I coudl see in my logs. Both hiting from 1500 to about 5000 (I have 50% mit) one in crushing and one in slash.<BR>I can't give you the named of the CA, being french, those names are in french and I doubt it will ring any bell.</P> <P>Though the lvl 68 Zerker that was with us got destroyed as well, so I'm starting to wonder wethere there is something wrong with that named, maybe since EoF (I never tried him before EoF).</P>

[RipFlex]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JudyJudy wrote:<BR> <P><EM>I think it's really based on how you want to build your class - both with arts, skills and reputation.</EM></P> <P><EM>Some monks I know go the DPS route and don't even put taunts on their hotbar, others - live for the MT or MA position in any situation - heroic or epic.</EM></P> <P><EM>In my opinion, I believe many create the monk class to solo, do quests, enjoy the mediocrity of settling solely with class mechanics to level.  They use the monk as an alt to farm for plat, do quests, maybe even tradeskill.  Few take the reigns and reap the joy and skill from a fully played monk - DPS or tanking.</EM></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>JudyJudy said it best.  I can elaborate on it.  The Monk is the Fighter/Scout Melee Hybrid.  With mad determinations, and knowing full well the Brawler has the "Short end of the stick" in it's toolset to be a good Group oriented tank, can Group tank all instances. One can gain a reputation being a great Monk Tank,  With hard efforts getting all the RARE brawler Fables and specially TAILER your raids, Moreso than a plate needs to, you can be a reputable Raid Tank (To be honest a MT raiding Brawler usually the Raid leader <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).  But that said you are doing it with the most difficult fighter type class.  My Sakkat hat goes to those few that do it... cheers.</P> <P>For me as I said before, Solo with my Monk, Harvest and collect in all areas even if they are hostile areas.  I Help out in Heroic names, 1 on 1 that guildies and some people need.  I perfer now to run Heroic instnaces now with my newish almost 70th level Guardian and in the near future Raid tank.  I also like my Monk in the MA part of heroic instances to.. comfortable in that area, many tools for me in that area Group FD, FD, Emergency heal the Plated MT... etc...</P> <P>More of a personal comfort zone for my Little Monk... oh and that he's high on the fun factor in general.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by RipFlex on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 AM</span>

[Shankonia]

<P>I've had little problem tanking anything i've faced in the games current state aside from losing aggro to a trigger happy Warlock or Zerker in a group situation (i'm guessing zerker was taunting though to belittle me the best he could).</P> <P>Hate transfer AA's come in quite handy and help us out alot, as do the taunt enhancements.</P> <P>As far as staying alive, I also feel as though I do pretty well after seeing beefy Guards tank the same encounters.  I get such good aggro now I find myself using the stone stance line quite a bit more frequently.</P>

[Illustrious]

<P>Top end raid encounters Warriors FTW no arguments. </P> <P> </P> <P>Heroic and easier Epic encounters pretty much any fighter can do with ease. Sure grp aggro management is a pain for brawlers but its still perfectly doable.</P> <P> </P> <P>2 grped Vraksakin and Pantrilla this week with my monk tanking and basically was Green entire fights. I know they are pretty [Removed for Content] encounters, but I have no doubt i could tank the majority of KoS epics with no problem (done a few but not many due to always have guard in raid)  and probably a decent amount of the EoF instance mobs also. Trouble is the harder the epic encounter, then generally it become more and more efficient to use a warrior and at the real top end im in no doubt that there are mobs impossible for brawlers to succesfully tank full stop. That i think is as it should be.</P>

[Junaru]

I'm one of those Monks that grew up never tanking. The 1st time I tanked for a group was in SH. The second time was in New Tunare. See the large gap there? This wasn't cause I didn't want to. More of the fact that I really wasn't let tank. Lately more and more I have been called on by guildies to tank things like Klak and Tunare. Not sure where the skill came from but when I told then it was my 1st time tanking they said they couldn't tell. Not like it's hard to tank normal group mobs anyways.As for why I started a Monk. Well my 1st toon was a Warlock the day EQ2 started. I got tired of the cast times and wanted to play a upfront in your grill class. I tired out the Monk and never looked back.<div></div>

[shaolen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JudyJudy wrote:<BR> <P><EM> Few take the reigns and reap the joy and skill from a fully played monk - DPS or tanking.</EM></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Well said my Brother.   I believe that most folks dont invest the time and effort it takes to become a good brawler tank or dps.   </P>

[Jakerf]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ryuugekitai wrote:<BR> <P>Well I do enjoy DPS and Tanking (especialy since my guilde lacks both dps and tanks, so I fill in where I'm most needed). I do like both play style as long as I can change from one day to the next. And I do ok tanking.</P> <P>Yesterday I tanked HoF. Everything went well from top to bottom, <FONT color=#cccc33>except for Septimus</FONT>.</P> <P>Anyone tanked that monster lately ?<BR>The problem I have with this guy : His CA bypass avoidance completely. They go right trough Tsunami.<BR>He uses 2 for what I coudl see in my logs. Both hiting from 1500 to about 5000 (I have 50% mit) one in crushing and one in slash.<BR>I can't give you the named of the CA, being french, those names are in french and I doubt it will ring any bell.</P> <P>Though the lvl 68 Zerker that was with us got destroyed as well, so I'm starting to wonder wethere there is something wrong with that named, maybe since EoF (I never tried him before EoF).</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I got wiped by this guy twice a few nights ago.  I was in a group who let me tank even though we had a 70 guard with us.  The guard was able to tank him but it was still pretty close.  Just wondering if any monks have tanked Septimus lately and if so how they did it?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Bladewind]

Judicious use of tsunami, the avoidance AA, our ward, and our mit buff usually sees me through.  I tank him in defensive since I usually have a warden along to nullify my stance penalties.  If you happen to have a dirge along, he is easy thanks to stoneskin.  Even without, he is doable with a single healer.  It gets hairy, but you can do it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[JudyJudy]

<P><EM>Tanked him a few nights ago - He has a huge 5k CA that he uses off the bat and most likely throughout the fight.  The rest of the fight wasn't bad at all.  We had just one healer who cured trauma, so that helped.    Didn't even have to mend.</EM></P> <P><EM>Stance dancing is good too.  When you're stuns and stifle are up, switch to your mid-stance to ensure they all hit, then "dance" back to your defensive stance while they refresh.</EM></P> <P><EM>Also, if you don't have any melee (or if they don't mind) - eagle spin works too.  Leading with eagle spin then spamming your stuns will usually buy you about 5 sec or so of the mob facing the other way.  This means no damage to you.  :smileywink:</EM></P> <P><EM>Good luck!</EM></P>

[selch]

<DIV>Long story short of all responses in this thread: There are more monks who suck at tanking in person and go for easy path of DPS, where there is no direct responsibility of failure or success, compared to last year... These are generally people who picked monk just to wear Gi to look good. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And ofcourse there are more players who plays roles "what their guilds needs" rather than "playing for their own joy" and eventually get bored of game and quit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>01-27-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:29 PM</span>

[Fleaba]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RipFlex wrote:<BR> <P>We are just not efficient Tanks, sure I can do Heroics if I don't get lots of adds, and I never consider Epics unless x2.  Not that I suck I really consider brawlers have the worse toolset keeping Group aggro and managing adds, I know this because I Power Leveled a Rat Guardian to my Rat Monk and my Rat Guardian mostly Mastercrafted/AD3 out can tank yellows and oranges in Heroic instances way better than my Legendary/Mastered out Monk at 70th level in Survivability and holding Group+adds in Aggro.  It's Black and White IMO.</P> <P>My Monk now Harvest/Solo and collect shinies in danagerous areas...</P> <P>Why work 4x as hard holding agro when you do not have to ?</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by RipFlex on <SPAN class=date_text>01-15-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:21 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I take it you haven't tried playing your monk lately......</P> <P>Just the other night our guardian died while fighting D'Lizta Cheroon an (Epic x 4 mob in Mistmoore Inner Sanctum), I nailed my Tsunami, rescue, turned the mob and changed to defensive stance. When Tsumani was about to die I tossed up my Mountain Stance and just kept taunting away. During this time at tanking the healers were rezzing and rebuffing our guardian and I don't think my health ever dropped below 75%. He actually took the time to buff up fully before saying he'd take it back. </P> <P>My guild of late has put me in the position of Main tank on the new epic EoF mobs quit more then I ever anticipated lately and that is because they are slowly getting more confident with me and my chosen class in that role.  I've always been a firm believer that SOE tries to design some epic encounters that are best suited for certain fighter classes that ARE NOT guardians. For instance, have you ever tried Lord Vyemm with a Pally tanking and amends on a good Assassin who is giving his hate to the Pally? Mem wipe?? What mem wipe?? Vyemm never turns with this combo if they can play there class.</P>

[Bladewind]

As a complete aside, I have not seen Vyemm memwipe since the release of EoF.  He memwiped with almost every aoe pre-EoF but has not done it to us since.  We hit the labs milk run almost every week.

[Jakerf]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JudyJudy wrote:<BR> <P><EM>Tanked him a few nights ago - He has a huge 5k CA that he uses off the bat and most likely throughout the fight.  The rest of the fight wasn't bad at all.  We had just one healer who cured trauma, so that helped.    Didn't even have to mend.</EM></P> <P><EM>Stance dancing is good too.  When you're stuns and stifle are up, switch to your mid-stance to ensure they all hit, then "dance" back to your defensive stance while they refresh.</EM></P> <P><EM>Also, if you don't have any melee (or if they don't mind) - eagle spin works too.  Leading with eagle spin then spamming your stuns will usually buy you about 5 sec or so of the mob facing the other way.  This means no damage to you.  :smileywink:</EM></P> <P><EM>Good luck!</EM></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thanks for the tips,  With some luck we'll do HOF tonight.  I do fine on the rest of the zone, just not complete without taking him down too.  I havn't switched stances on this fight before, usually stay in def,  idea of eagle spin then switching to spider for stuns, stifle up is good and I will be giving it a try.</P> <P>Thanks again.</P>

[Jobeson]

<cite>ReficulFonwaps wrote:</cite><blockquote> Do most of you guys roll a monk to be a tank, or roll a monk to be some sort of second rate dps?</blockquote> I rolled mine to be an off tank and second rate dps.  I have fun doing the two.  a real dps pulls agro off of the MT I can pick it up and hold it easy for 12 seconds.  Then if the MT takes it back great if not defensive and finish tanking it.  A very fun role to play.  I have MT'd every group instance many times but if I am grouped with an SK he would be tanking or I would find a class who would MT or a different role all together and I would MT.  I would not ask a guardian to dps and let me tank (if he is of equal tanking ability)

[DevilDwarf]

I play on The Bizzare and a better question to ask are "Where Are The Monks Period?"  The few that I have spoken to (including 2 uber 70 Monks in my guild) tell me that they have quit playing their characters mostly.  The reason given was that all other fighter classes have better stats and can out play the Monk Class including the Bruisers.  They all feel that at one time their Class was right up there but with updates SOE has pretty much nerf'd and killed their Class.  I don't know if this is fully correct but there sure doesn't seem to be many around and those that are don't group or raid.

[Avanya]

<p>I tank all the time and have been forever.  I love the puller/tank role.  I tend to group more with guildmates (who think I'm a great tank) but have also tanked in a number of pick up groups.  A lot of times people are pleasantly surprised and often say "I didn't know monks could tank that well".  How well you tank does depend on your armor choices, stats, AA's, keeping your related CA's at Adept III or Master (or as high as you can afford), and of course learning how to tank properly.  I am not in fabled, but in legendary, except for a fabled weapon I saved up to buy.  I was tanking in mostly treasured in the beginning though.  One major thing is knowing what ALL your CA's do and using them to their full advantage.</p><p>I picked a monk because I played one in EQ1 and really enjoyed it.  EQ2 monks are very different of course but I actually like EQ2 monks better.  I like the idea of wearing leather and using avoidance and the martial arts idea.  I also enjoy being a tank but still being able to do some decent damage.  A lot of versatility.  Monks are a lot of fun.</p>

[MageChild]

<p>50 MoNkIe here and I lOvE it!!!!!  I am currently sharing the guild MT title with another monk, and together we can do no wrong.  I have been tanking for my wife's Illusionist since EoF came out and honestly, together they are an insane combo (Max haste is currently 116 points, mouseover's at 106%!)  I have no problem tanking, and even raid tank when I can, since I generate massive hate and don't have a problem holding hate. I step in and beat on whatever it is for 30 seconds, 50% hate proc burning bright and other two taunts burning as fast as they can repop, while everyone else takes out the little guys, and then I Stone Stance and Walk like Mountain at the same time (yes, they stack for Mitigation) so the healers don't have to burn extra agro while keeping me alive.  I know that our class weakness is multiple groups, so when dealing with them I let the plate classes MT and I off-tank/DPS.  Or I let the Illusionists do their job and I just beat them all down one at a time (it's so nice of them to wait their turn for their beatings, isn't it?)</p><p>The spin/root maneuver would be fun for me to use, but since I fight bare handed, it's useless to me (check my profile to see my AchPts setup).</p><p>The bottom line here is:  I'M TANKING, AND LOVING IT!!</p>

[fre'do]

<p>i am a level 70 monk and i still play it the most.  yes i off tank the most and make sure the adds dont kill off the mages or healers to quickly<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  do i ever tank sometimes if the pally i am with gets open with a can opener.  as for my guild they tend to not trust my tanking skills only my trouble finding skills, so i tank it is with strangers or my friends outside the guild.  i have tanked once an epic x2 when half the raid was dead and main tank was still dead (thank the norrath gods for group fd), and yes i actually lived gotta love good healings.  For the most part i am never offered the main tank, but i understand people mind even though i hate it.  so i play the role of off tank and troublemaker well.  monk tanks are out there you just have to find them. </p><p> i was helpin out named for hertiage quest we had an odd group of 4 tanks, fury and a mage. So first main tank was a sk who got smacked around. then we let teh pally go for it and not much difference.  then the other monk step forward we wanted to give up and to try and tank, and he did a great job and the named went down.  after that i belived monks can tank<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

[RipFlex]

<p>It's true, I haven't REALLY been playing my Monk lately, and to do again Main Tanking or Assisting Mr. Uber Plate guy when they mess up... I would need new gear definately and respec my AAs again.  Strangely even the RAID Monks in our guild have shelfed their monks and playing Tank that really Tanks or a Scout that really DPSes.  I know a few Guilds that absolutely denied Monks and a few other classes in their raid set up... so tells you something.</p><p>Myself, I just gotten bored really... I jumped on my Templar, raided, got fabled out... bored again, jumped on my Dirge Power level him to 55th did a few of the fun HQs.... bored mainly no one wants a Dirge until they are 70th level, dunno why?</p><p>Out of all the toon I played my Templar demanded alot in every content group or raid... even asked for my Templar when on my other toons... ><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Neveer once my Monk was asked to join when he was my only toon at the time unless it was last resort FILLER or can;t fins a Plate tank. ><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[yusukekuwabara]

Posts like this really make me laugh. You guys have to be crazy. Not only can I tank just about anything in the game except a few mobs, but I usually finish top 3 on DPS on the zone parse in most raid zones in t7. I do have all my masters but before I did I was still DPSing pretty good. If people are skeptical to let a monk tank it may be because a lot of monks out there don't know how. Now I think I'll leave this post before I get mad hehe.

[Ganeden]

<p>First off to the troll who started this thread and hasn't come back: go away.</p><p>Brawlers CAN tank all the zones and instances that a guardian can, period. It's the other people in the game who need to get a clue and realize we can because I think many brawler's don't learn the tanking skills very well because they don't get many chances when leveling up to do it. I can't tell you the amount of times that there's been a plate tank in the group four or five levels lower with similar gear that insisted on tanking. A few nights ago I was grouped with a 62 guardian (6 levels lower then me) who was ovbiously mad that he wasn't tanking. He had some hate reduceing spell cast on me (i kept cancelling and he kept casting) and he was constantly taunting(taking lots of damage mind you, these mobs were mostly yellow to me). When I asked him about this in tells he told me that I was better at leading the group but he should be taunting and taking the damage, because he was a guardian. A couple weeks ago I was in a group in achedism (spelling, i know) and there was a swashbuckler like four levels higher that insisted on tanking because they had some defensive aa and ovbiously thought they were uber. I complained in the group for about 10 minutes before giving up, this was mostly a group of her friends so whatever. We wiped three times trying to clear the first room, after the third time I /disband and called out.</p><p>But the more I've leveled and the more I started tanking (mostly when no one else was lfg) people realized that brawlers are just fine to tank and now I get asked to tank all the time among friends and people that I regularly see in pick up groups. I'm known as a good tank because I work at it and now I'm tanking in 95% of the groups I'm in. I've tanked epic x2 and x3 mobs with no problems, I haven't tried x4 yet so I can't talk about that.</p><p>Here's a few tips for unexperienced brawler tanks: </p><p>Keep the taunts and the dps up, 1 point of damage=1 hate point, so dpsing is as important in keeping agro as spamming taunts is, some people complain about brawler taunts (atleast i've been it on the bruiser side) and I've never really had a big problem keeping agro. If there's a class that can transfer agro in the group get them to do it, dirges also have a song that increases hate. If you get a wizzy or someone that casts right as you pull a mob and constantly steals agro and it becomes a problem say something to them about it, dont be a shy, a dead wizzy is no good to a group. Save aoe CAs for groups to help with agro.</p><p>BODY PULL when in doubt and BE CAREFUL pulling. This is very important, if you're careful when pulling and don't get adds you don't have problems. This is where most groups get in trouble, the tank makes a bad pull and gets too many adds, he can't control agro/healer can't keep him up and the group goes down. </p><p>Feign off bad pulls as quick as you can if you get to many, if they keep running back to the group cause someone cast on you stand up and get agro, if you feigned quick enough you wont have problems getting agro.</p><p>Make sure you watch your own hps, if you get to low mend to help to healer.</p><p>KEEP THE GROUP MOVING. This, more then anything, keeps the group happy. Being able to lead a group through a dungeon is a very important part of tanking imo. If your group is good enough and there isn't a hard, power taxing pull, the group should be fine on power, you should be constantly moving. If it's your first time through a place maybe let someone else pull, if you're the only tank or if the other tank is too low look at the map and ask the group if someone else has been there, if they have they usually will gladly tell you where to go.</p><p> And finally don't believe it when other poeple tell you that you can't tank or you read it somewhere, because you can do it just fine.</p>

[Zutan]

<p>Once the "changes" for EoF where fixed I think Monk/Bruiser tank very well.  There is certainly no reason we cant tank in Instances. I was tanking Obelisk of Blight etc by 68 and had no fabled yet.  I lost agro on groups of mobs from time to time due to overzealous nukage but single target enemies never leave my control.  The healer never pulled agro either, just the wizzy types.</p><p> I have also tanked x4 epics when necessary (peeling agro off some folks who cant control themselves and overnuke)..  As long as healers are aware that I need to be healed I've not had issues tanking.  I usually Tsunami and or Mountain stance right away to make sure I survive as the healers switch to healing me or the MT regains control.  If its a single mob I can hold agro very well once I establish control of the mob.</p><p> I am starting to get more fabled gear and have noticed increased success in tanking when a mob starts to ping pong.  I generally try to leave my Taunt proc enabled in raids which doesnt hurt the MT/MA but does keep me high enough on the hate list that I can peel agro quickly if the mob goes after the scouts/mages.  </p><p> I also use my buff that allows a groupmate to use my avoidance if they get hit since that gives about 10.8 deflection to me which is pretty helpful.</p><p>I think the biggest issue is perception.  For most of EQ2 monks could not really tank raid mobs.  Now we can, but most people, including the ones in my guild, still dont believe it.  I have read about monks tanking high end mobs, such as tarinax etc without issues.  There is no reason we cant at least fill the MA role.  If the Monk is skilled and reasonably well equipped all we need is healers paying attention and we will do fine.</p><p> I dont necessarily want to be the MT in a raid but if it came down to a Monk tanking vs calling the raid off due to no properly equipped/trained Plate tank, I think we should at least give it a shot.</p>

[Jobeson]

<cite>yusukekuwabara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Posts like this really make me laugh. You guys have to be crazy. Not only can I tank just about anything in the game except a few mobs, but I usually finish top 3 on DPS on the zone parse in most raid zones in t7. I do have all my masters but before I did I was still DPSing pretty good. If people are skeptical to let a monk tank it may be because a lot of monks out there don't know how. Now I think I'll leave this post before I get mad hehe.</blockquote>This does not say too much for you but those you consider DPSers.  If you have any rangers, assassins, swashies, conj, necros, warlocks, wizards in your raid you should not be in the top.  Depending on the group setups I average 800-1100.  In the perfect group setup I can average a few hundred more but extra dirges / coercers are not too common in my guild to be taken out of MT group and put in a DPS group.  I am specced for dps in kos and aoe immunity (to stay in and dps) then 10 points in aoe taunt and agro transfer for when I want to tank / allow the warlocks to do more dps.  the real DPSers do 1500-2500 and usually average 1700.  So yeah If I completely respecced I could probably get an extra 150 dps that would not be the top 3.  With this said My guess is you are a liar (which I would hope is not the case) or your guildies are not in equal armor and masters to be considered a fair competition.  I can out dps any class that is only using app 4s and having only 42 aa yay me! I would like to add for Zutan: Tarinax is now a complete [Removed for Content].  You could have a caster tank him if he was in a MT group.  He is the easiest boss in DT.  (Yes I have tanked him)