So whats everyone's thoughts on monk now ???

[Barok]

<DIV>happy , sad ,  angry ???  just looking for opinions on how you guys like the changes  and the new AA's now that everyone can see what we got .</DIV>

[Untalent]

sad<div></div>

[selch]

<DIV>sad</DIV>

[Microphage]

Disapointed and sad. 

[Pyrdian]

sad =(

[Drussna]

I'm so disappointed I just want to curl up in the feotal position, rock back and forth and cry softly into my pillow. I was hoping we'd get an AA that would allow us to wear plate armour, increase our mitigation to the point that I can easily solo lvl 74^^^ epic mobs, use FD on an entire raid party, heal for up to 10K across a raid, leap tall buildings in a single bound and maybe fly across the sky instead of walking. We've been robbed of our chance to be the best class in the game, so I'm suggesting that we all go on strike. As of now, all Monks (especially on the Najena server) will roll a new class main. I'll keep playing my Monk just to see if SOE make any changes, and I'll be sure to keep you well informed. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Vorona]

Very very sad.I stop play my monkMelda - Monk 70 on StormsVorona - Ranger 70 on Storms<div></div>

[Harbing]

<div></div>Very dissapointing. I had the fun of beeing lvl 70 for 2 weeks or so and enjoyed my monk through all this process; but in his current state its just not the class i started with. I really hope they untweak this a bit.CaineBladesDarathar<div></div>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>Happy and tanking fine <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As the voice of opposition... I'm getting slammed alot.  I agree that deflection should be "uncontested." But I don't see things as bleak as all the others do. I'm up to 55% mit now.  From 40% before.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by DynamicPerformance on <span class=date_text>11-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:39 AM</span>

[Rokujou]

Pretty happy, I feel stronger, although mobs feel harder. But I guess thats what they were going for.

[Deathspell]

How can you feel stronger when mobs became harder?<div></div>

[Cirth_Beer]

<div></div>sad, disapointed and useless.<div></div><p>Message modifié par Cirth_Beer le <span class=date_text>11-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:58 PM</span>

[BenYitzh]

I haven't gotten to try any of the new Achievement Abilities, so I don't really know about them, some look interesting.However, I really dislike the reduction to base deflection and base parry.<div></div>

[JinjAB]

<DIV>Sad</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I used to be able to hit autoattack and look away. Now I have to do things properly, stun, run round behind mobs, stance dance etc! I think it got a bit too easy tbh, at least for me doing solo/group stuff in the not too hard zones :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, it is a bit harder, but that's pretty much the same for everyone. Get up to date with new armor sets, adornments, cloaks, earings and I think it will feel more balanced again... :smileyindifferent:</DIV>

[Prodigus]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mo wrote:<div></div> <div>Sad</div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#6633ff"><b>I used to be able to hit autoattack and look away. Now I have to do things properly, stun, run round behind mobs, stance dance etc! I think it got a bit too easy tbh</b></font>, at least for me doing solo/group stuff in the not too hard zones :smileyhappy:</div> <div> </div> <div>Seriously, it is a bit harder, but that's pretty much the same for everyone. Get up to date with new armor sets, adornments, cloaks, earings and I think it will feel more balanced again... :smileyindifferent:</div><hr></blockquote>Exactly.  Like I posted in another thread, while 3-boxing Mines of Meldrath I was VERY busy healing and using some abilities I didnt normally have to use (ie: rooted stances).  So yes it was harder but not impossible and I cleared the zone without much trouble and being careful to not get adds.  And this is without a decent cloak and only about 23ish AA's (mostly into STR which I may respec now).  With some upgrades and respec'd AA's I think it will balance out some more.</div>

[fre'do]

what changes?:smileywink: i have not notice the difference.  i can still do the same stuff and get myself into trouble so i am pleased.

[Morrolan V]

<DIV>Pretty much like before the update.  Things seem to be balanced across the majority of content, but avoidance is still useless at the highest end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was happy with my monk before the update, but was looking forward to being happier after.  So, for that reason, I am disappointed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We'll see if they will do something about it.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Morrolan V on <span class=date_text>11-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:49 AM</span>

[BruenoB]

<P>as it stands currently, very sad.  this is with almost no new AAs and also without my diety abilities but.....</P> <P>really want to go play my assassin now....:smileysurprised:</P>

[Cyngii]

<P>One word answer... Dissappointed.</P> <P>Multi word explanation...  During development they made a bid deal about a) how avoidance was broken and b) they were going to increase survivability across the board.  Well a) they didn't fix avoidance (somewhere along the line it seems someone forgot brawlers have a class specifc skill called deflection that can be adjusted independantly of other classes) and b) the only increase in survivability i've seen is NPC survivability.  Quite honestly this feels like pre live update 13 where without having the perfect group makeup  and tank/healer combos things are stupid rough (please keep in mind i'm talking about tanking yellow heroic NPCs... i don't have any issues with even con NPCs and lower).  Without a lot of DPS and a mezzer, i'm not sure how far a monk tank group is getting in Mistmoore with only 1 healer.  Then again I'm not sure if plate tanks are having much better luck with only 1 healer either.  Nonetheless, if what we are experiencing is "increased survivability" I would hate to see what this expansion would be like if they hadn't made and changes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  </P>

[Karamonde]

SadDo us a Favor and put us in scout tree, or as we can see in char creation, just leave us as we are and stop making false promise, monks ar enot tank and wont be as it seem.And for the people saying we are tank and they happy to have 50+ mitig and less avoir ==> Guardian <div></div>

[Tarmagin]

<P>Sad is an understatement.  [Removed for Content] off is a better way to sum it up.  I have actually gone back to playing my wizard.  <EM>"gasp"</EM></P> <P>Monks have been broken in regards to tanking versus the rest of the tank class for a while and we were even woefully behind Bruisers.  The expansion combat "tweaks" were supposed to help fix this.  It is worse now than it has ever been.  Even fully fabled and using all the tricks and potions and AA's available, I suck now.  If their intention was to get rid of the Monk as a class I think they are well on their way to accomplishing this.  If this was not the intent then they need to get back to the drawing board fast.</P>

[KazzySoJaz]

Angry, See my siggy, I should be adding my assassin to it once he hits 40(3 levels to go).  I cannot even farm with my monk now, wish I would have moved him to station exchange and sold him.<div></div>

[Waung]

haven't had a chance to play really since expansion release, but man that sux to hear.  need to get in and see for myself.  if i do end up agreeing with everyone else though, i'd have to say sad but not as sad as troubs/bards.  man they got the SHAFT yet again, poor guys.  mana regen overall reduced by 5 regen, and they get an AA to increase by 5? makes any of our AA's looks GREAT!<div></div>

[Ramius613]

Indifferent-moderately pleased.  I just got done doing a marathon weekend(26 hrs) with my group of RL friends that I play with.  And I must say that overall I did not notice that much change in how my monk performed.  Granted the mobs were more of a challenge as expected, but we did not have any problems with any of the zones until we got to Mistmoore (Shudder).  I will say that I am the off tank in our group, and the Mongoose Stance is a god send (4 ranks currently).  However when the S**T hit the fan, I was able to quickly swich to Storm advance and keep the mobs aggro until the encounter was finished.  As for the AA abilities, I am torn, because as an off tank I want to take all of the punch, kick, and Jab AA, to increase my DPS.  However, I would like to have the Body AAs for my role in guild raids as Mob puller.<div></div>

[RipFlex]

<P>Sad... even my guildies really don't care about the Monks in the raids unless just one pulls.</P> <P>I feel more worth playing my Templar, at least my templar's roll is clear and primary roll needed in raids.. no grey area, or weakness.</P> <P>I dunno what to feel anymore for my monk... just put so much into him...</P> <P> </P>

[Sslarrga]

<DIV>Well my experiences so far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our Guardian avoids as well or BETTER than I do on high end content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Difference between Guardian and Monk is even greater than before EoF.  It's noticeable in Crypt and EXTREMELY noticeable in Mistmoore Castle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I won't go into details, but Shield classes have MUCH better options for DPS adornments due to being able to use some of the shield adornments.  While secondary DW weapon adornments are virtually worthless in comparison.  Yay for the DPS gap between Zerker and Monk widening even more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>There's an item in game that gives ANY class 100% FD with unlimited duration.</FONT></STRONG>  No I won't say what it is, but I've already /bugged it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruisers get better tanking AAs.  And our increase DPS AA's don't increase DPS by very much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the bright side.  The cure line is relatively nice.  Tsunami recharging slightly faster is nice.  Although I prefer the Bruiser cutting FD reuse in Half (to 4 seconds I believe?) even better.  The increase to our Heal is VERY nice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But overall I'm extremely PO'd at SoE right now.  Our tanking at the highend was passable at best and it's only gotten worse.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV> <DIV>70 Monk Deaths Door on Everfrost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Darem0]

<DIV>What would a 70 Fabled Monk be worth on exchange anyway?</DIV>

[lagerone]

<DIV>Alright I'm not sure if the sky is falling but someone better start cleaning up the big chunks of blue stuff that are littering the street!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with Torpian that we need to wait on the next update and see if some of our concerns are addressed.  Right now though our </DIV> <DIV>tankage is bustage....I'm speaking of brawlers in general.  Out of innate compassion I put my 70 Monk into receivership.  My 70</DIV> <DIV>Bruiser is on credit watch.  My 70 Berserker is may or may not become my main depending on how things pan out in the next few weeks.</DIV> <DIV>She is only in Legendary but seems to be working fine and I can still have a raid role with this class.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We need to wait-and-see to some extent.  It may be this isn't a vision thing but just a side effect of unbalanced game dynamics atm.</DIV>

[Barok]

ok thanks for the replies . me ?? im sad also and the monki will go back on the shelf .  not gonna go into details to bring in drama . hopefully 1 day they will read our forums and see that the majority of the monk community is not happy . i know on my server there are a ton of monks but you see them on other toons nowadays.

[bks6721]

I've found my best use lately is to just mentor a new Fae guildie and put myself on autofollow and let them get some bonus exp while I read the forums.  lol <div></div>

[psubull]

sad panda<div></div>

[Stew2782]

Can't comment on the top line performance as I'm only lvl 56 in mastercrafted gear with adept 3's, but I've not noticed much of a difference. While working solo or tanking for a group against heroic mobs everything "feels" about the same. Perhaps if I was wanting to MT on raids I'd be dissapointed but otherwise I'm quite happy. Not used any AA's on the monk tree yet, got about 36 pumped into the brawler tree and currently working on increasing my chance for critical hits. Rebound - 56 monk Darathar <div></div>

[artophwar]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc>Pump 5 aa's into our heal line and we will have the single largest instant heal in the game. 50% heal on a raid buffed tank sitting at around 11-12k hp will pretty much guarantee us a spot at a raid. Combine that with our avoidance buff on the mt and we are beginning to become the best off tank class. If you use Tsunami, toss up Intercede, and once Tsunami is down hit Evade during a fight the MT will avoid almost every attack (50% reroll on our 100% avoid.) This will effectively keep an MT alive in a raid for around 35 secs every 3 mins with just our abilities alone. IMO this is what our class is beginning to become. I know it isn’t a glorious job but someone has to do it, and unfortunately the parses will be mediocre when you are in defensive stance. We do not have the ability to be one of the top 3 tanks, and we will not be in the top 5 for dps. Our roll has become strictly support and a lot of monks/raid leaders should accept it and learn to use our abilities to be more effective at end game content. <SPAN>Once they make our deflection uncontested we will still be in the same situation, but now the MT will have a second uncontested roll. (his block and our deflect)</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV><p>Message Edited by artophwar on <span class=date_text>11-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 AM</span>

[Rah]

<P>Sad.</P> <P> </P> <P>Oh sorry thought this was the Guardian forums <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Rahge </P> <P>70 Guardian</P>

[RipFlex]

<P>"Group looking for a PLATE TANK, PST." (over and over again in high level Herioc dungeons in EoF.</P> <P>Need I say more?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Arcanos]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RipFlex wrote:<BR> <P>"Group looking for a PLATE TANK, PST." (over and over again in high level Herioc dungeons in EoF.</P> <P>Need I say more?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is precisely the point.  Even if SOE finally figured out that monks are inferior tanks at present and boosted them to equal status, how long would it take for this stigma to go away??  Even when playing one of my other toons and we have a group ready to go just looking for a tank and there is a level appropriate brawler type the group will refuse to use him and prefer to wait for a plate tank.  EVEN IF Sony's numbers say that brawlers are where they are supposed to be, the simple fact that the majority of people won't tackly significant content without a plate tank should be a total giveaway that something is wrong.<BR>

[DarkSkador]

<DIV>Sad very sad I having more fun with my healer :/</DIV>

[Dak]

<P>So far I have played my Conj, bruiser, Brigand, and Warden, From that my brigand has gotten then worst end of it, my Bruiser is actually doing better as is my Warden, and my Conj is doing much better, even soloed 2 lvls well going against 4-5 lvls above him which he could not before with good armor, adept III's and master spells. Will play my monk today and see how she does and what effects the LU has on her.</P> <P> </P>

[Quind]

Personally, I'm happy with the direction things are going.  There's room for improvement, like making some of our rolls uncontested or giving us a chance to block with staves/fighting batons or something, but I don't feel particularly worse off than I was a week ago.  I can still solo stale heroic content (-4 ^^^ is the best I've managed so far, I think), and duo just fine with a dirge in dungeons.  We're having to be a little more careful than we used to be, sure, but that's the way it should be.  Onoes, I've had to learn how to pull since starting into EoF content.  Whatever shall I do?From what I've seen, the changes mean I have to be a little more on than I used to.  I have to actually use face of the mountain, and I can't do yellows or heroics happily with just my offensive stance up.  I still haven't gotten the hang of stance dancing, but I'm working on it.  Hopefully by the time I've hit the next tier, I'l lhave it.  Really looking forward to getting some groups in Perma.After some crazy exploration and questing in Steamfont, I got a godzillion AAs and managed to work my way down to the martial order enhancement.  Still filling it out, but I think the extra little bit of hate transfer from the dirge will make it less likely that he'll steal aggro from me while making me sexy.  It's not amends, but I'll do whatever I can for a little extra aggro holding, I think.  Tentatively, the other ones I'm going for are the two cure enhancements, the mend enhancement, and the single target taunt enhancement.  The others I don't know much about yet, and I'm not sure if I'm even going to bother going for one of the top tier skills.  It seems like all of the ones I really want lead up to a detaunt, which isn't exactly something I need.  We'll see, I suppose.As for groups preferring plate tanks- hell.  There have been times when I requested plate tanks for groups, just to spare the healers some twitching.  They're good at what they do, and if all you're wanting is something to take some hits, then a plate tank is your man.  Of course, I've seen same-level plate tanks that I could out-mitigate /and/ out-evade, but their gear was utter crap and they had empty slots.  Some groups prefer having a tank they can just throw in front of things and forget.  (It's kinda like having a buff you can just click when you log in and not worry about until you die or run out of concentration spots.)  That's just part of being an evade tank.  I was expecting something like that when I signed on.And the new AA trees?  Web thingy?  Whatever?  I like them.  For the most part, they're offering me things I want, and where they're not, I'm sure someone else will find them useful.  Right now I'm working on my aggro control and survivability, for the most part, since I'm the tank for my duo (which may be becoming a trio soon, once this newbie we adopted gets EoF).  I should probably go back to working on my brawler tree at some point, since right now I'm sitting with four points in int that are laughing at me, but the monk AAs seem to offer a little bit more of an edge right away.I'm wondering though, if it would be worth it to invest in adornments now, or if I should wait until I'm into the next tier of gear (or to seventy).  They're kinda pricey atm, but I know some transmuters who could hook me up with mats if I got my books, and I've been making good enough money on mastercrafted cloaks that I don't mind spending some if it'll make life easier for me and the dirge.  The deflection augs I was seeing look totally sweet, and I'd love to marry them and have their manbabies.  Er.  *cough*  Ending the post now before I embarass myself more.<div></div>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>UPDATE:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With 24 points into the new AA tree, a 10% chance to proc a 200 pt ward (from my cloak), and shorter cast timers on the mit stances I'm enjoying the tanking scene.  Mistmoore is difficult for even the best geared plate tanks (x3 of 70's with a fully fabled paladin tank wiped several times) but when I get the right group together and watch my pulls, I've cleared the first area.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The new changes look nice, though I rarely tank in defensive.</DIV>

[Dak]

<P>Without using the new tree, as I do not have the expansion, I did not see much of a difference in my Monk. She was kicking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in Nek and TS without a hitch. Atleast not until she went into ROV, then all the heroics were just too much for a Monk/Conj pair up.</P> <P> </P>

[Quind]

If you guys are at all into getting beaten on, I recommend you do the first set of quests in Steamfont, from Watchman Plarg (right by the crossroads when you zone in from Gfay).  The reward (I forget how many quests in- not many) is the Gnomeland Security Cloak.  It procs a 200pt ward, and was well worth sacrificing the five haste and the +skills from my mastercrafted cloak.  It goes off regularly, and is a nice supplement to heal potions and mend.Also, the enhancements to mend make a lovely difference.  The stuff on the way is useful too, which seems rare for AA trees.  I'm not high enough to have Tsunami or some of the other defensive skills, so I have absolutely no idea how useful the upgrades to those are.  I've noticed a healthy increase in my aggro-getting and aggro-maintaining with the taunt AAs, though.  Once I'm done with the mend AAs and the cure AAs, I'll probably go back and work on my single target taunt.  I wish the hate transfer % on enhance:martial order were higher, but I'll take what I can get.I'm tanking a lot better than I was before, near as I can tell.  The dirge and I are tearing up Steamfont, taking heroics and nameds pretty easily.  Though I'll admit, the duck quest there is annoying me.  Can't stealth past the high steam elementals for the last one yet.  Another level, hopefully, should fix that.  (Not that a quested duck pet matters.  Or that I have room to complain about not being able to do a level forty-whatever quest at thirty-nine.)I /have/ noticed that whether I'm in defensive or offensive makes a huge difference, especially when we're doing yellow and up cons.  The extra bit of evade and especially the mitigation helps a ton.  So does popping face of the mountain.  I expect that when I get the other stoney mitigation skill, I'll be using that as well.  (Though, probably less religiously, since I'm 1/2 the group's dps, and being stifled doesn't help things die at all.)So far, I'm pleased.  I feel more than capable, and quite useful to the people I group with.  I just wish there was a way I could make other people see the same things I do.  I still twitch every time I see "group looking for PLATE TANK."  Guess I'll get over it eventually.<div></div>

[scalzo]

I have been tanking and soloing fine. Our deflection and mitigation on defensive stance has been increased. On the update notes.<p>Message Edited by scalzo on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:06 AM</span>

[Mala-Shea]

Yeah I've noticed a difference since the last patch Duggie...tanked all instances yesterday with just a fury...never went out of the green...

[KnAdidas25]

<div></div>In any zone below the 60-70 EoF zones its the same as it ever was if not a little stronger.  Was soloing blue 2 ups in KoS tonight and barley getting into the yellow.  Went to Limping plains and almost got stomped twice by an even con no arrow wolf.  I think when everyone gets their aa's filled out the balance is going to be waaay off.<div></div><p>Message Edited by KnAdidas25 on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:27 AM</span>

[Untalent]

<div></div>nm<div></div><p>Message Edited by Untalented on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:52 AM</span>

[Untalent]

<div></div><div></div>For cloak quest who do you talk to after you finish with Klipp? Cuz everything is grey so I can't see any orange dots. And not many quests? Man I've done quite a few.The first guy ended up giving me a Security Buckle... then he sent me into the town and I did some quests from the guy right at the top there and then a girl in one of the houses and then Klipp on the outside. Then when I finished those Klipp just tells me not to tell anyone about what was going on.What do I need to do now?<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Untalented on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:16 AM</span>

[Spidubic]

"<span><font color="#cccccc">Pump 5 aa's into our heal line and we will have the single largest instant heal in the game. 50% heal on a raid buffed tank sitting at around 11-12k hp will pretty much guarantee us a spot at a raid."I was wondering about goign that route. Would be nice to have a big heal. But recast timer reduction of other AA's also seems nice.As for feelings after EoF. I solo mostly and have so far notice I do seem to take more damage over the course of a fight. But I also seem to do a little more damage. I have swung slightly more to DPS and away from Tank. </font></span><div></div>

[Untalent]

Can someone plz tell me how to get passed this part for cloak quest? What do I need to do?<div></div>

[Illustrious]

<DIV>Nothings changed, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can still 1 healer tank pretty much all heroic content (apart from nizzara and MM) and still sucky at epic tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DPS still pretty good but not uber.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>no great strides forward but not really gimped either tbh</DIV>

[Quind]

Spidubic, the AAs for the mend line are well worth it.  Being able to go from the red to almost green again is invaluable when trying to do crazy things that are not intended.  It's helpful even in normal gameplay (when you're not pulling +7 mobs), for overpull, slow resists, or oom healers.  The damage increase/reuse decreases are nice, but with how high this is in the tree (second tier), I really think it's one every monk should invest in.  Now if only we could get an aa to decrease mend's refresh a little bit.  Mmm.  I can dream, anyway.<div></div>

[KnAdidas25]

Illustrious could you fill us in on your set up.  I have several masters alot of adept3's and a few adept1's, several pieces of legendary armor.  Im still lacking abit in aa's but im not bad off by any means and Im a joke in EoF.   But i have absolutly no problem anywhere else.  Im at a loss and quite disappointed so far.  How are you doing Solo in EoF?  Things that should be easily soloable are ripping me to shreds.<div></div>

[HaginNetherbla]

My first eq2 char was a monk.  I wanted a mix of decent tanking and decent soloability.  As far as I can tell that held up reasonably well until in T6 we slid somewhat and in T7 we went to hell.My list of grievances pre-EOF were:- Terrible mitigation and NOTHING we can do about it (no AAs and only the mountain CAs);- Damage really falling behind dps classes at 70 while tanking falling way behind plate tanks;- Terrible AAs.  We get modest boosts to avoidance, nothing for mitigation and nothing major for dps.  The str line is supposedly for dps but if you have 2 fabled DWs (like i do) its no better.  Compare this to my zerker who has 78% double attack using a shield and 1h weapon.  My swashie has about the same double attack chance (with offhand free and 1h main);- Plate tanks got almost as much avoidance and way more mitigation plus afaik shield blocks don't even count in avoidance.Pre-EOF I switched to swashie and zerker (playing both chars within vitality limits so it wasn't terribly fast; say 3-4 levels per week each).  My zerker is now 70 (swashie 55) and can out tank and out dps my monk by a wide margin.  Plus, more than the base stats/abilities, zerkers have the tools to be real tanks.  Three temp tanking buffs, two single target taunts, a blue AE taunt which is superb and AE dmg abilities.I'd hoped the changes in EoF would address this but its business as usual, if not worse.  The net effect of the changes is that everyone probably starts off slightly worse.  What I wanted for my monk was:- Something to fix the mitigation gap;- A DPS AA setup;- Some decent EoF AAs.  We have mediocre AAs at best.  Whats all this deaggro nonsense?  We're crap dps.  If a group or raid wants a dps they'll get a swashie, assassin or ranger (or brigand, but they can be problematic due to lack of deaggro).At 52 my swashie got an ability that has a 44% chance of my weapon dmg being AE in front of me as a constant buff.  My zerker can get to 24% multidirectional version of that with 8 AA (KoS) in the AGI line.  What was the monk AE damage version?  8% at 8 ranks.  Now figure that one out for me.EoF demonstrated to me that I made the correct decision in mothballing my monk.  I thought if the changes were positive I might bring it out but no.  I am a zerker and a swashie now but a monk no more.<div></div>

[Jinry]

I've heard about Monk's avoidance problems since EoF and I decided to come see it on this forum. I'm a conjuror and I decided to create a Monk Fae with a friend. At the moment we are level 28 and we can fight against lvl 30 +++. It's long and hard but not impossible. I've heard to that some monks can MT in the Crypt or Obelisk with 2 heals.So, I didn't know if before EoF monks were more powerfull but I find my monk very pleasant <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[KnAdidas25]

Lower lvls are no problem.  I rerolled a fae Monk to check it out after seeing how bad mine was on the high lvl stuff.  Low lvl feels just the same as before, no probs what so ever(possably a bit stronger).<div></div>

[ArcticBlue182]

im not sure about the avarage or even good geared monk tanking the new Obelisk with just 2 healers... maybe 1 thats fully fabled..i was in there the other day full grp we had a pally who wanted to main tank but by the 1st named i was given MT roll as they were pulling the whole room everytime.. they didnt seem to have any idea.. anyway...tanked no probs till last name then the problems began, the 2 linked 72^^^ heroics (i thnk they are?) were suddenly 2 hitting me and taking me out, i am full leganday gear inc all claymore line down to raid parts 2 LCR from den, after 3 goes and some massive lag we had to let the pally go back to MT to finish the instance.<div></div>

[Kainsei]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>ArcticBlue182 wrote:im not sure about the avarage or even good geared monk tanking the new Obelisk with just 2 healers... maybe 1 thats fully fabled..i was in there the other day full grp we had a pally who wanted to main tank but by the 1st named i was given MT roll as they were pulling the whole room everytime.. they didnt seem to have any idea.. anyway...tanked no probs till last name then the problems began, the 2 linked 72^^^ heroics (i thnk they are?) were suddenly 2 hitting me and taking me out, i am full leganday gear inc all claymore line down to raid parts 2 LCR from den, after 3 goes and some massive lag we had to let the pally go back to MT to finish the instance.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I've tanked the zone with a mystic and a fury without too much trouble.The only issue was the necro who kept insisting on using his mage pet, needless to say he died a lot. /shrugThings get a bit difficult from the moment you enter in the room where the 'Key' named is, the yellow mobs are hitting way harder than the white mobs in the previous rooms.</div><p>Message Edited by Kainsei on <span class=date_text>11-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:35 PM</span>

[PrimusPilus]

For the 200 point ward proc cloak, the one that starts it seems to be some guy who is called a "regent" up in Gnomeland Security, just get to entrance, and take on eof the first building doors to the right. I do not believe you need to do any other quests, the first one he gives is the one with the cloak.

[Quind]

I stand corrected, then.  I could have sworn that one came from the creepy little guy at the entrance. <div></div>

[Lildebbie]

<P>isn't this what happened with Monks in EQ1?  one minute they were viable option to tank and then BAM.  well if we get moved into DPS roll i would really not have a problem with that.  i like tanking but my monk in eq1 wearing bazaar gear did quite well even into Wall Of Slaughter.  i say as long as monks have a distinct roll and that it is something useful, i don't really care.  the truth is i play a monk cause the Coolie hat is Boss rofl.  </P> <P>ok now that i have revealed myself as a perman00b i would just like to say that my monk atm is 43.  she does wear nice gear (seems alchey stuff sells well on PvP servers) and definitely better off than most monks i see that are my level.  i can tank mobs still but it is way way harder.  Mountain is a must on heroics and many fights have me spending the last 10-15% in stone stance hitting taunt when it comes up.  i NEVER used that before.  now it is AdeptIII.  i am adapting but hoping for a viable change since it seems obvious that SoE no longer wants monks tanking any interesting content.  till then i have a fae conjy and a halfling guardian who are leveling quickly.</P><p>Message Edited by smootheemaker on <span class=date_text>11-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:43 PM</span>

[lostu]

<DIV>I'm kinda new to having a monk, however I do enjoy the monk's fighting techniques, I have more fun assisting a tank when I'm grouped! I find that the monk's armor picking is SOOO confusing, I spent more money then I should on picking armor for my monk, deciding Leather or Cloth? hmmm! I got 4 other characters/classes in eq2 and I have to say, I NEVER had this much trouble with my palladin, templar, fury, and illusionist! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't want to sound like an idiot when I say this, however it's just how I feel about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Would be cool if a monk is going to wear cloth, why doesn't the cloth armor have high mitigation, and maybe inbued to it, so the monk has SOME advantage? As it is, there is NOT much of a selection on dual wield, and I saved my level 10 knuckles, and got another level 10 dual wield, because I'm just confused on which to use???? And I got a level 20 monk!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Granit, I love Eq2, but the monk thing needs to be more organized? More fair maybe? ...  In any event, I still enjoy my monk, however, when I was fighting 10 levels lower then me (gnolls for quest) I was still getting the hell beaten out of me. When I was fighting gnolls 10 levels lower then me with my templar, (level 20 at the time) the gnolls didn't do any damage to my templar, and with NO heals to my templar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see a difference in armor, with each class, and how great it works for the class, but with the monks it just doesn't seem right. </DIV> <DIV>Just wish the monks didn't get the short end of the stick when it comes to having the advantage with fighting. ...  I understand the monk's position, but yea just how I feel about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[FatedByChan]

I made my monk knowing they were not very adept tanks. (at least not anymore) I made him as a dps machine, so his avoidance has never been above 55%. After the update his avoidance went down to 46.5% That's a relatively big chunk of avoidance, but I don't get hit so I don't really care hehe. As for the dps aa's being kinda shoddy, well, my mains a bard so trust me guys...it could have been way worse.

[superdave]

I can tank any group instance in the game pre and post eof. As for heroics i still take on about lvl 65 triple up. i am glad they changed where you cant solo these anymore. they are meant for groups not soloers. Yes i am in a mix of legendary(claymore) and fabled. My build is went agi-8 stamina 4-4-4-8 int 4-4-6-8 i currently going the mend line to our ward and tsunami. i dont see the changes here bad and it will help the game grow for future expansions.

[Spidubic]

<div></div>Thanks Quind. I am really tempted to go that route. Having even more healing power even if it is on a long timer would be nice.Question. If I reset my AA's are they avaliable to both trees or only the tree they were originally spent in?EDIT: Found my answer. No. The points stay in the tree they are spent in.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Spidubic on <span class=date_text>11-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

[Deathspell]

Maybe it's me, but ever since EOF came out, I find it really hard to find a group.In fact, it seems I can only find a group with the people that I know.Maybe it's server related too, but since EOF, I see people asking LFG in public chat and the majority of those is always the bruisers/monks.Also more and more, people specifically request "plate tanks" for instance or groups, despite the many brawlers that are LFG. To me that's a clear sign nobody wants us.Even in an instance when the plate tank left, the group nearly dissolved coz it wasn't even an option of having me tanking to finish the instance. Only when I insisted to at least try it (coz of the 18-hour lockout) they would have a go at it, and we finished the instance as well.So, no I don't think it's going well with us.

[Quind]

People haven't gotten it into their heads yet that things have changed since the bad old days directly after release.  And hey, if monks can't get a group?  Make an all monk group.  Five monks and a dirge would be a fairly sexy chunk of hawtness, imo.  Each of those five monks has mend up every three minutes, so you've got at least one a minute with two to spare.  If your appointed tank is taking more damage than the menders can handle, swap a monk out for some poor inquisitor or warden or paladin who can't get a group.  And make the paladin heal like he's supposed to.  ^^(I love you Pallies, I really do.  It just seems like sometimes SoE is building you guys up to be second string tank/healers like we're being built towards second string tank/dps things.)Just have to hope manasong can keep up with the pally's mana useage.<div></div>

[Illustrious]

<P>Illustrious could you fill us in on your set up.  I have several masters alot of adept3's and a few adept1's, several pieces of legendary armor.  Im still lacking abit in aa's but im not bad off by any means and Im a joke in EoF.   But i have absolutly no problem anywhere else.  Im at a loss and quite disappointed so far.  How are you doing Solo in EoF?  Things that should be easily soloable are ripping me to shreds.<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Well tbh im not your average equiped monk, fully fabled and fully mastered. Still only 65 AA tho so not many of the new ones yet as i havent had a lot of time to play yet in EoF due to raid schedues and rl work/family etc.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Havent tried to solo at all really on EoF, but i did try to take out some namers in SoS to compare what it was like both pre and post eof.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Pre EoF i could kill every namer in the zone apart from the ring event in the pit.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Post EoF I tried the first few green namers and really struggled but just about managed them, i then tried a couple of blue namers further in and decided it wasnt to be. We have lost 10% avoidance and green/blue mobs have been buffed so what used to be close fights are now imossible for me at least. People may argue we should never have been able to kill them anyway, but whatever i sure cant anymore anyways. In fact all lower level mobs hit harder, killed the grey ring in Klack the other day for Clockwork manace zone in key and even greys were taking chunks of hp away where b4 they would not have damaged me hardly at all.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Grp wise on EoF tho i have had no problems at all, single healer in Crypt and Obelisk are doable if you got decent grp dps to support u also, but the way they now put several ^^^ mobs in a single encounter does make things harder i have to say, I certainly use the rooted miti increasers now and tsunami is used a lot more than it used to be and of course heal needs to be up b4 u go pulling those namers.</P>

[Deathspell]

The major problem that monks have, and why people don't want brawlers for tank, is that we don't hold aggro on grouped encounters. And that's exactly what they have in instances, 80% are group encounters and it's in that department where we are lacking severely. Loose aggro once and it's near impossible to get it back before the mob (or the mage) has died.FWIW, more then once I see plate tanks working hard to maintain aggro and saying "Crazy dps people, I'm taunting like fuçk."

[Timaarit]

Aggro on groups just require some work from the monk. Last night in Obelisk, I lost aggro to a warlock on the groups at first till I remembered how to tank again. Once I started cycling on the targets, the warlock stayed safe for most of the time, sometimes I just switched a bit too late and the warlock was already unleashing his spells. He tanked pretty fine though (only died 4 times out of countless encounters). But I really couldn't do anything besides rescue to pick up the mob again if I lost it. But like said, if I started switching targets early enough, the warlock never got aggro from any of the mobs in group. <div></div>

[Deathspell]

It "requires some work", well, yeh, but our aggro control on grouped encounters is nowhere near as good as that of a plate class.You can chain cast taunts, hit AE damage, toggle targets... you can work as hard as you want, but if you have serious dps classes in your group, wizard + conjuror + ranger (which are not uncommon) they can steal aggro whenever they want really.I also have a Warlock and I do know that I've to adjust to my playstyle, coz to be honest, I rather not have a monk as a tank when I'm playing my Warlock.<div></div>

[SouthernAvenger]

Aye i had a conj in my group a few hours ago and he would just take the agro like he was a gaurdian. I just couldnt get it off him, no matter how hard i tried.But i play a monk cause i love my monk.<div></div>

[Quind]

I see nothing wrong with each tank class having its strong points and weak points.  Some are better at single target, some are better at AE, and some fall somwhere in between.  Some classes have a lot of okay snap aggro, some classes have none, some classes have a single, golden skill.  There is an ideal tank for any given situation, and each flavor has its niche.  They function well outside of those niches, but there will always be one which fits the best.  It's how archetype systems work.  You have a lot of viable choices, and while one may be your absolute best choice for a given encounter, zone, or whatever, the others perform just as well- especially when their groups are willing to be flexible and adjust to the group's structure.<div></div>

[Deathspell]

I'm sure all classes have their advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation, etc...BUT, the major problem is how all other players view your class.Brawlers have always been the underdog when it comes to tanking, coz they were never (and will never be) as good as the classic plate classes when it comes to tanking.Add to that that brawlers have crap grouptaunt/aggrocontrol... and as far as the big crowd is concerned, you are out of the picture for the tanking role. (Unfortunately, coz I think monks are a fun class to play).

[Timaarit]

<blockquote><hr>Deathspell wrote:It "requires some work", well, yeh, but our aggro control on grouped encounters is nowhere near as good as that of a plate class.You can chain cast taunts, hit AE damage, toggle targets... you can work as hard as you want, but if you have serious dps classes in your group, wizard + conjuror + ranger (which are not uncommon) they can steal aggro whenever they want really.I also have a Warlock and I do know that I've to adjust to my playstyle, coz to be honest, I rather not have a monk as a tank when I'm playing my Warlock.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yes they will. But they will do that with plate classes also. Though some classes do have skills to help with that (like amends).<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cyngii wrote:<BR> <P>Without a lot of DPS and a mezzer, i'm not sure how far a monk tank group is getting in Mistmoore with only 1 healer.  Then again I'm not sure if plate tanks are having much better luck with only 1 healer either. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Our fully fabled MT gets pwnd in the face in MMC with only one healer.  The respawn is too fast and those mobs are super hard.  So if you're basing the entire monk class being worthless on MMC, you're probably setting yourself up.<BR>

[Mala-Shea]

<P>/agree...don't really matter what kind of tank in there...if you dont have the right classes in your group go jump of a cliff....it's the same result</P> <P> </P>

[Jinry]

One more question. I had played a swashy just before EoF for 2 weeks and I found that he can tank very well.With EoF do you think that a swash can MT netter than a monk ? Because I agree that a zerk must tank better than me but a swashy....<div></div>