Heroic Mobs much more difficult to tank (I'm taking much more dmg)

[Pokeun]

<div></div><div></div>I'm a level 36 monk in full mastercrafted gear and all adept III's.  I can barely solo level 26 and 27 ^^^ green heroics anymore.  Takes nearly a full health and power bar.  Not sure if this is intended or not, but it certainly makes things a lot harder for me.On an added note, if these changes are being felt across the board for everyone I'm okay with it.  It pretty much seems too easy and fast to level in this game and I'd welcome a change to make it more difficult as long as it is affecting everyone.If it's just affecting us monks, I'm a bit bummed about it.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Pokeundi on <span class="date_text">11-14-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:49 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Pokeundi on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 AM</span>

[terrified kill]

<div><blockquote><hr>Pokeundi wrote:<div></div>I'm a level 36 monk in full mastercrafted gear and all adept III's.  I can barely solo level 26 and 27 ^^^ green heroics anymore.  Takes nearly a full health and power bar.  Not sure if this is intended or not, but it certainly makes things a lot harder for me.On an added note, if these changes are being felt across the board for everyone I'm okay with it.  It pretty much seems too easy and fast to level in this game and I'd welcome a change to make it more difficult as long as it is affecting everyone.If it's just affecting us monks, I'm a bit bummed about it.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Pokeundi on <span class="date_text">11-14-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:49 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>boo hoo poor little soloer cant solo as good anymore quit your whining and realize that MMO's Yes you probably dont realize taht this is a mmo and werent designed to be a solo game tahts what console games are for <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and fps and any offline game there is you probably dont know that MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online game and wheres the multiplayer in solo <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so you need a group to take on anything tougher then that big deal <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[greyf]

<P>I was just remarking to the girlfriend that the OP was at least being honest about his angst (unlike many sky is falling posts) and then I scrolled down for the reply.  Why the acidic tone for someone simply expressing concern?  And we all pay to play... if soloing was never intended, then soloing wouldn't work and tools to do so would never be given.  That someone is concerned that the world they have enjoyed and become comfortable with might change doesn't deserve the acidic reply received.  Given the "other aspects" of the reply, I suspect this will sail right over the second posters head, but I tried.</P> <P>And to the OP; scanning through the other class boards and seeing similar sentiment in quite a few places, I get the impression this IS an overall change and not a Monk only thing.  I haven't been able to log in myself, since I didn't heed the patcher's sage advice and allow pre-downloading <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>The number one label I'd like to apply to EQ2 is --> Game.  Have fun and enjoy it in the whatever way you find possible!</P>

[jeffdo]

boo hoo poor little soloer cant solo as good anymore quit your whining and realize that MMO's Yes you probably dont realize taht this is a mmo and werent designed to be a solo game tahts what console games are for <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"> and fps and any offline game there is you probably dont know that MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online game and wheres the multiplayer in solo <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"> so you need a group to take on anything tougher then that big deal <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16">-------------------Useless post sir and logic would suggest that if we are less capable at solo killing green heroics, we're also less capable at tanking blue heroics in a group. Thank you for your input though.<div></div>

[Regpyr]

<DIV>Terrified Killer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The last two posters were pretty nice about it... but I have to say this, do you have any friends at all?<BR>Seriously, that post exhibited the worst form of disrespect and all around retarted social skills I have ever seen, you should seriously consider never making contact with another human being ever again, in fact the next time you think about making a post, just don't. Your response to the thread was rude, pointless, and it makes me think that you ought to be castrated before you can have a child, and thus plague the world with whatever horrible combination of genes caused you to be so worthless.</DIV>

[wesbarlow]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Regpyr wrote:<BR> <DIV>Terrified Killer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The last two posters were pretty nice about it... but I have to say this, do you have any friends at all?<BR>Seriously, that post exhibited the worst form of disrespect and all around retarted social skills I have ever seen, you should seriously consider never making contact with another human being ever again, in fact the next time you think about making a post, just don't. Your response to the thread was rude, pointless, and it makes me think that you ought to be castrated before you can have a child, and thus plague the world with whatever horrible combination of genes caused you to be so worthless.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>nicely put

[Pokeun]

Ya, I suppose my biggest concern really has little to do with my ability to solo as a monk, but rather my ability to tank for groups.I noticed that even while in my defensive stance (master I) I was getting hit far more often than I used to.  So much more, in fact, that switching to my offensive stance was vastly superior in terms of dmg put out vs. damage taken.I really wish I had other fighter classes of equivilant level to compare with.  Is there anyone out there with a guard or bruiser of around equal level to their brawler that can comment on any of this?<div></div>

[Fleaba]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pokeundi wrote:<BR> I'm a level 36 monk in full mastercrafted gear and all adept III's.  I can barely solo level 26 and 27 ^^^ green heroics anymore.  Takes nearly a full health and power bar.  Not sure if this is intended or not, but it certainly makes things a lot harder for me.<BR><BR><BR>On an added note, if these changes are being felt across the board for everyone I'm okay with it.  It pretty much seems too easy and fast to level in this game and I'd welcome a change to make it more difficult as long as it is affecting everyone.<BR><BR><BR>If it's just affecting us monks, I'm a bit bummed about it.<BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Pokeundi on <SPAN class=date_text>11-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:49 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Pokeundi on <SPAN class=date_text>11-15-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:13 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm about half legendary, half fabled for armor. I use the Staff of the Prismatic Keepers when I tank to slow down the ripostes, many masters and all def skills are adept 3. </P> <P>Today I tanked The Crypt of Valdoon and  the Obelisk of Blight to the end with no problem.  I used to shudder when guildies wanted a tank and asked me to do so, now I don't think I'll be so nervous.  I will admit that we had a few deaths...but that was cuz we did a few noobish things in those zones AND I need a bit more practice at tanking instead of just being a dps button masher.</P> <P>BTW my avoidance was just over 10k in the group...anyone know what the new cap is??</P>

[Befallen_Valgav]

<DIV>I am not normally one to jump in the forums and say...well much of anything...too many people bash due to having no power in their personal lives that they seem to get their jolies off with posts like....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>boo hoo poor little soloer cant solo as good anymore quit your whining and realize that MMO's Yes you probably dont realize taht this is a mmo and werent designed to be a solo game tahts what console games are for <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width=16 border=0> and fps and any offline game there is you probably dont know that MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online game and wheres the multiplayer in solo <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width=16 border=0> so you need a group to take on anything tougher then that big deal <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width=16 border=0><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*sigh</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No wonder people have a problem posting on the forums....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to this response...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>The last two posters were pretty nice about it... but I have to say this, do you have any friends at all?<BR>Seriously, that post exhibited the worst form of disrespect and all around retarted social skills I have ever seen, you should seriously consider never making contact with another human being ever again, in fact the next time you think about making a post, just don't. Your response to the thread was rude, pointless, and it makes me think that you ought to be castrated before you can have a child, and thus plague the world with whatever horrible combination of genes caused you to be so worthless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will say...NICE JOB...I wouldve been soooo much more abusive to him...however as my shrink says...this is where I should shut my mouth.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So to Terrified Killer....maybe your mommy should give you some more love...or a firm spanking...maybe you should seek therapy...maybe...oh the heck with it...welcome to my /ignore list of moronic useless individuals</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you all for bashing the basher!!!<BR></DIV> <DIV>GREAT JOB!! and if no one else says it ...Thank you</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Befallen_Valgav on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:43 AM</span>

[Dnoran]

There is always a way to beat the mobs. Stockpile resist potions in your inventory and agility potions. Keep them on at all times when fighting. It isn't as good as it was before but it will get you by. Post LU 29, I am level 57 still soloing 49 <FONT color=#66ff99>NAMES </FONT>but with a little more caution splitting up  the group. Another thing I noticed is that like the mobs I'm fighting now are laying some heavy trauma spells on me in areas I used to run through uninvised. You will need invis now too to plow through mobs.

[richard]

<DIV>Hello</DIV> <DIV>I'm sick and tired of people not understanding each other. If someone claims that this is MMO and there is no need to solo<BR>then why is there an ability to do so? Listen i have been playing Muds before most of you have even been born, i have had<BR>21k hp in muds and 17 years behind me, i was the biggest of them all. Now i have lot of experience and MMO's are like<BR>muds, there is fine balance between soloing and grouping. If there would be no ability to solo at all, i would not play the game.</DIV> <DIV>Solo = Gives freedom to do what ever you like, when ever you like.<BR>Group = You can encounter far more powerful enemies, with your friends.</DIV> <DIV>My self i prefer solo, cause im not a very good team player and now when i have quit smokeing i'm even worse. But please<BR>trye to understand each other.</DIV>

[GnomePow]

I have a 45 monk in full mastercrafted t5, I dual box with a 45 mystic. I am seeing the exact same thing as the OP.. Green and blue heroics, even 8 levels below me are much harder to kill now. A green heroic 8 lvls below me that pre patch would not have touched me now requires 2-3 heals from mystic to defeat.I was working on axe from the past / stilletos HQs, I have done CoD several times helping guildies with theirs. Last time I had done it I mentored to a 40 guildie to get the captain green and had no problem tanking him. Yesterday I tried him unmentored, 14 levels above him and could only get him down to half hp before mystic was oop. (I know it's an epic encounter not meant for solo blah blah save the flames I am only pointing out the change not trying to debate the solo/group game)I completly agree with the OP that if this is accross the board I'm fine with it, however I do not see many posts from other classes, and in game talking to friends most ppl say they don't notice a difference. Numbers wise in defensive my Mit is over 200 less, my avoidance 9% less than pre patch. I do notice a slight increase in DPS, appear to crit alot more and proc more but I would rather have my previous tanking abils.. Due to me being a higher lvl than most of my guild, and having better gear, I was playing MT role most of the time for guild groups / raids.. Looks like I better get a plate tank geared up.<div></div>

[xKHONSx]

<P><SPAN>The changes are intended.  I know there is a lot to read in the update notes, so I cut and pasted the part of the update notes that apply to this post.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>- Gray, Green, and Blue mobs can now present a bit more of a threat than they could previously.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>- High Yellow and </SPAN><SPAN>Orange</SPAN><SPAN> mobs are slightly less difficult than they were previously.</SPAN></P>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xKHONSx wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN>The changes are intended.  I know there is a lot to read in the update notes, so I cut and pasted the part of the update notes that apply to this post.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>- Gray, Green, and Blue mobs can now present a bit more of a threat than they could previously.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>- High Yellow and </SPAN><SPAN>Orange</SPAN><SPAN> mobs are slightly less difficult than they were previously.</SPAN></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Exactly.  I'll trade being able to trivially solo low con heroic nameds for being able to reliably tank yellow and orange heroic nameds any day of the week.</P> <P> </P> <P>Edit:  I can still solo heroic nameds up to 5 levels below me.  Are they tougher?  Yes.  Are they so hard that it seems impossible?  Not at all.</P><p>Message Edited by Bladewind on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:32 AM</span>

[Sslarrga]

<P>Well, that would be fine except for a few things.</P> <P>I spent all of yesterday tanking for our guild group.  Enough so that I ended up getting 10 AAs.</P> <P>Here's what I've noticed.</P> <P>Tanking is across the board worse than it used to be.  Now granted most of our members were having problems downloading the digital download and the patches for the CD version so the group wasn't even remotely optimal.</P> <P>Therefore, for most of the day I ended up with 3 healers in group.  First half of the day was a Templar, Defiler, and Fury.  Second half of the day was with a Templar, Fury, and Warden.</P> <P>I can't remember the names of the instances we did, but we did one in Loping plains, one by crushbone, and the Obelisk.  As well we did Mistmoore Castle for a bit.</P> <P>The instance by Crushbone was a walkover as expected with that much healing, everyone pretty much threw in all their AE's and everyone was pretty much tanking.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Obelisk was at least somewhat challenging.  Then again with 3 healers once again tanking wasn easy people actually somewhat watched their aggro.  Still not a huge deal if someone grabbed aggro.</P> <P>The instance in Loping Plains however started to show some weaknesses in tanking ability and the first real impression that Tanking overall has gotten significantly worse.  Still with 3 healers it wasn't that difficult to finish.  Just noticed getting hit more often than before.</P> <P>Mistmoore is where things fell apart.  Mostly because towards the end our guild guardian finally logged on and we brought him in.</P> <P>OK, whoever said Yellow and Orange would be "slightly" easier, bull pucky.  I had 71.4% avoidance while doing mistmoore.  Want to know how often  I was getting hit?  In worst cases I would avoid roughly 5% of the hits.  In best cases I would avoid roughly 45% of hits.  On AVERAGE, I was avoiding roughly 20% of hits.</P> <P>Now, here's where it gets fun.  The guardian once he joined was not only taking less damage, he was avoiding roughly the same or BETTER than I was.  Being that late at night (2am) and getting a bit torqued at seeing just how much better a mitigation tank was tanking, I forgot to check what his avoidance was.  I'll probably do that later today just to see.  As well to see what his Blocking percentage is.</P> <P>Now, granted, that was only 1 day.  And there's always a chance this was just an incredibly bad streak of luck for me in Mistmoore and an incredibly good streak of luck for him in Mistmoore...however...</P> <P>At least for the first day testing.  I'd say Guardians tank anywhere from 50% to 100% better than monks in there.  I'll know more as time goes on and I have a chance to tank and compare more.  But considering SoE's past ineptness when it comes to Monks I'm not holding my breath.</P> <P>Considering that compared to a Mitigation tank.  Our defensive stance provides less mitigation considering it's a percentage increase of your armors mitigation.  We took two hits to avoidance (deflection and parry) while they only took one hit to avoidance (parry).  And Block is uncontested by mob offensive skill while all of ours is contested and can be rendered virtually ineffective against a high level high offensive skill mob (IE - Mobs in Mistmoore). </P> <P>So yeah, from my experiences so far.</P> <P>Green Heroics - slightly harder.</P> <P>Blue Heroics - not noticably harder so far.</P> <P>White Heroics - maybe slightly harder.</P> <P>Yellow Heroics - Noticably harder.</P> <P>Orange Epic (Mistmoore) - Extremely hard but nothing really to compare it to other than Nizara.  EDIT - we didn't kill it, just tried as it was in the way of working on a quest.  </P> <P>No comment on solo ability as I rarely solo, and obviously being one of the only guild tanks on yesterday, didn't have the opportunity.</P> <P>Regards,</P> <P>Croaker</P> <P>PS - for those wondering, yes, I'm fully fabled so the experiences of non-fabled adventures may be quite different than mine.</P> <P>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <SPAN class=date_text>11-15-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:11 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Sslarrga on <span class=date_text>11-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:15 AM</span>

[Fleaba]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sslarrga wrote: <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Obelisk was at least somewhat challenging</FONT>.  Then again with 3 healers once again tanking wasn easy people actually somewhat watched their aggro.  Still not a huge deal if someone grabbed aggro.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Whoah! I thought Obelisk was cake with a Mystic and Warden healing me. I only bothered throwing up Tsunami when pulling the little Fae dudes back to the group cuz they kind of hit hard.</FONT></P> <P>OK, whoever said Yellow and Orange would be "slightly" easier, bull pucky.  <FONT color=#ffff00>I had 71.4% avoidance while doing mistmoore.</FONT>  Want to know how often  I was getting hit?  In worst cases I would avoid roughly 5% of the hits.  In best cases I would avoid roughly 45% of hits.  On AVERAGE, I was avoiding roughly 20% of hits.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Actually, no you didn't...unless you have some 3rd party UI. The new system is odd in a way...you probably showed a number like 9.5k Avoidance. (wish I knew what the new cap was cuz I had a bit over 10k the other day) Also, you must not be set up for def like I am. Just duoing with my duel boxed Warden I'd be running 75ish% avoidance with my part fabled/part legendary set up according to the old UI.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>I'm still confused on how well avoidance works..and surprised a lot of times on what I do avoid. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Example: Deathtoll, everyone dead but me (it all happened so fast I didn't realize I was the last one alive and didn't FD cuz I wanted to give someone a chance to rez anyone at all cuz it was our last pull on Tarinax) Tsunami wasn't up yet...just my ward. I swear I smacked him on the shin for 10 seconds with just a sliver of health left before he hit me. Could have been 5 seconds for all I know..but it seemed like forever. A guildy and I were talking about it the next day too...wondering how the heck I lasted so long........ Soooo avoidance still confuses me.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>