EoF Monk Achievements

[Coccinea_Maga]

<div></div>The list of Monk Achievements as it stands so far --  to be updated as achievements change.All effects given at rank 1 (for level 70).Latest changes are in <font color="#ff0000">red</font>Last Updated -- <font color="#ff0000">11/8</font><font color="#ff0000"></font><font color="#ff0000"></font> <hr size="2" width="100%"> <p><font color="#6699ff"><b>1. Enhance: Kick</b></font> -- Classification:  Kicks -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  NoneIncreases the damage of Kick and its higher level upgrades</p> <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Increases damage by 2%</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases damage by 5%</font></li></ul> <p><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>2.  Enhance: Cobra Circle</b></font> -- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  NoneIncreases the radius of Cobra Circle and its higher level upgrades</p> <ul><li>Increases radius by 1</li></ul><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><b><font color="#6699ff"></font><font color="#6699ff">3.  Enhance: Forward Strike </font></b>-- Classification:  Jabs -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  NoneImproves the casting and recovery speed of Forward Strike and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Improves casting speed by 0.1 seconds</strike></font></li><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Improves recovery speed by 0.05 seconds</strike></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves casting and recovery speed by 20%</font><font color="#ffffff"></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves reuse speed by 0.5 seconds</font></li></ul><font color="#999999"><strike><b></b></strike></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>4.  Enhance: Sprint </b></font>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  NoneIncreases the movement speed and reduces the power cost of Sprint <ul><li>Reduces power cost by 5.0%</li><li>Increases sprint movement speed by 5.0%</li></ul><font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>5.  Enhance:  Cold Fist </b></font>-- Classification:  Punches -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  NoneReduces the health cost of Cold Fist and its higher level upgrades. <ul><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Reduces health cost by 3%</strike></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Reduces health cost by 7%</font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases the hit chance by 5%</font><strike><font color="#cccccc"></font></strike></li></ul><font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><b><font color="#6699ff"></font><font color="#6699ff">6.  Enhance:  Beckon </font></b>-- Classification:  Awareness-- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 1 or 2 @ rank 3Increases the taunt amount of Beckon and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Increases taunt amount by 3%</strike></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases taunt amount by 4%</font></li></ul><font color="#33cc33"><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font></font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><b><font color="#6699ff"></font><font color="#6699ff">7.  Enhance:  Martial Order </font></b>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 2 or 3 @ rank 3<font color="#999999"><strike>Adds hate transfer to Martial Order and its higher level upgrades</strike></font><font color="#ff0000">Martial Order and its upgrades also cause opponents attacking your protected target to focus some of their hatred at you.</font> <ul><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Adds hate transfer by 1%</strike></font></li><li><font color="#ff0000">1% of target's hate is transfered to you</font></li></ul><strike><font color="#999999"><b></b></font></strike><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>8.  Enhance: Focus </b></font>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 3 or 4 @ rank 3Increases the healing amount of Focus and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Increases heal amount by 1%</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases heal amount by 2%</font></li></ul><font color="#33cc33"><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>9.  Enhance:  Will of the Void</b></font><font color="#6699ff"><b> </b></font>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  3 --  Ranks:  1 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 4 or 5 @ rank 3Adds Magic and Divine curing to Will of the Void and its higher level upgrades <ul><li>Adds magic and divine curing</li></ul><font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font><b><font color="#6699ff"></font><font color="#6699ff">10.  Enhance:  Thrust Kick</font></b><font color="#6699ff"><b> </b></font>-- Classification:  Kicks -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 1 or 6 @ rank 3Increases the damage of Thrust Kick and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Increases damage by 2%</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases damage by 5%</font></li></ul> <font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><b><font color="#6699ff">11.  Alternate:  Mongoose Stance</font></b><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 6 or 7 @ rank 3As an alternative to Dragon Stance, this stance has a chance of refucing the target's hate towards the monk on a successful strike <ul><li>On a successful strike this spell has a <strike><font color="#999999">higher than normal</font></strike><font color="#999999"> <font color="#ffffff">50% </font></font><font color="#ffffff">cha</font>nce to cast Mongoose Dodge on target of attack.  If a melee attack is used, only the primary weapon can trigger this effect.</li><ul><li>Decreases Threat to target by 98</li></ul></ul><font color="#33cc33"><b></b></font><b><font color="#6699ff"></font><font color="#6699ff">12.  Enhance:  Mantis Jabs</font></b><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Jabs -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 7 or 8 @ rank 3Improves the casting and recovery speed of Mantis Jabs and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Improves casting speed by 0.1 seconds</strike></font></li><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Improves recovery speed by 0.05 seconds</strike></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves casting and recovery speed by 20%</font><font color="#ffffff"> </font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves reuse speed by 1.5 seconds</font></li></ul><font color="#999999"><strike><b></b></strike></font><b><font color="#6699ff"></font><font color="#6699ff">13.  Enhance:  Will of the Void II</font></b><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 8 or 9 @ rank 3<font color="#ffffff">Improves reuse speed of Will of the Void and its higher level upgrades</font> <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Improves reuse speed by 5 seconds</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves reuse speed by 6 seconds</font></li></ul><font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>14.  Enhance:  Power Strike</b></font><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Punches -- Cost per rank:  1 --  Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 5 or 9 @ rank 3Reduces the power cost of Power Strike and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Reduces power cost by 3%</strike></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Reduces power cost by 7%</font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases the hit chance by 5%</font><strike><font color="#cccccc"> </font></strike></li></ul><font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>15.  Enhance:  Will of the Void III</b></font><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  3 -- Ranks:  1 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 12 or 13 @ rank 3Adds Physical curing to Will of the Void and its higher level upgrades <ul><li>Adds crush, slash, and pierce curing</li></ul><font color="#33cc33"><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font></font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><b><font color="#6699ff">16.  Enhance:  Face of the Mountain</font></b><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 13 or 14 @ rank 3Increases the mitigation of Face of the Mountain and its higher level upgrades <ul><li>I<strike><font color="#999999">ncreases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 3%</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 10%</font></li></ul><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><b><font color="#6699ff">17.  Enhance: Swooping Dragon</font></b> -- Classification:  Kicks-- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 10 or 18 @ rank 3Increases the damage of Swooping Dragon and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Increases damage by 2%</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases damage by 5%</font></li></ul> <font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>18.  Enhance:  Dragonbreath</b></font><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 11 or 17 @ rank 3Increases the radius of Dragonbreath and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Increases radius by 1</strike></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases radius by 2</font></li></ul><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>19.  Enhance:  Silent Palm</b></font> -- Classification:  Jabs -- Cost per rank:  1 --  Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 12 or 15 @ rank 1Improves the casting and recovery speed of Silent Palm and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Improves casting speed by 0.1</font></strike></li><li><strike><font color="#999999">Improves recovery speed by 0.05</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves casting and recovery speed by 20%</font> </li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves reuse speed by 1.5 seconds</font></li></ul><font color="#999999"><strike><b></b></strike></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>20.  Enhance:  Stone Stance</b></font> -- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 --  Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires both 15 and 16 @ rank 1Adds spell mitigation to Stone Stance and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Adds spell resistance by 2%</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Adds spell resistance by 4%</font></li></ul><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><font color="#ffcc00"><font color="#6699ff"></font></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>21.  Enhance:  Winter's Talon</b></font> -- Classification:  Punches -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 14 or 16 @ rank 3Reduces the power cost of Winter's Talon and its higher level upgrades <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Reduces power cost by 3%</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Reduces power cost by 7%</font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Increases the hit chance by 5%</font><strike><font color="#cccccc"> </font></strike></li></ul><font color="#ffcc00"><b></b></font><b><font color="#6699ff">22.  Enhance:  Outward Calm</font></b> -- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 --  Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 19 or 20 @ rank 3Improves the reuse speed of Outward Calm <ul><li><strike><font color="#999999">Improves reuse speed by 2 seconds</font></strike></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves reuse speed by 5 seconds</font></li></ul><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>23.  Enhance:  Tsunami</b></font> -- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 20 or 21 @ rank 3Improves the reuse speed of Tsunami <ul><li><font color="#999999"><strike>Improves reuse speed by 4 seconds</strike></font></li><li><font color="#ffffff">Improves reuse speed by 7 seconds</font></li></ul><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><b><font color="#6699ff">24.  Combination</font></b> -- Classification:  Combination -- Cost per rank:  5 -<font color="#ffffff">- Ranks</font><font color="#ffffff">:  1 </font><font color="#ffffff">-- </font>Prerequisite:  Requires 17 @ rank 3Combination is an additional attack that can only be used after a successful Jab, Kick, and Punch type ability has recently struck a target.  Combination does not have any power cost and cannot miss. <ul><li>Inflicts <font color="#999999"><strike>296-493</strike></font> <font color="#ffffff">338-564</font><font color="#ffffff"> </font>melee damage on target</li><li>You need to have used a Jab ability recently on your target to use the ability</li><li>You need to have used a Kick ability recently on your target to use the ability</li><li>You need to have used a Punch ability recently on your target to use the ability</li></ul><font color="#33cc33"><b>COMMENT</b> -- Damage indicated is at 451 strength</font><b><font color="#6699ff">25.  Evade</font></b><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  5 <font color="#ffffff">-- </font><font color="#ffffff">Ranks:  1</font><font color="#ffffff"> -- </font>Prerequisite:  <font color="#ffffff">Requires 15 points in Awareness</font>Reduces the target's hate towards the monk <ul><li>Decreases Threat to target by <font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff">661-1102</font> </font></li></ul><font color="#ff6600"><b></b></font><font color="#6699ff"><b>26.  <font color="#999999"><strike>Dodge</strike></font></b></font><b><font color="#6699ff"> <font color="#ff0000">Master's Evasion</font> </font></b>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  5 -- <font color="#ffffff">Ranks:  1</font><font color="#ffffff"> -- Prerequisite:  </font><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff">Requires 15 points in Body</font></font><font color="#999999"><strike>Allows the monk to automatically dodge the next melee attack and any non-direct area effect abilities within the next few seconds.  This disable the monk's autoattack and use of abilities while in effect.</strike></font><font color="#ff0000">You automatically dodge incoming attacks and any non-direct area effect abilities within the next few seconds.  While evading, you are unable to attack or use abilities.</font> <ul><li><font color="#ff0000">Casting:  0.25 seconds</font></li><li><font color="#ff0000">Recast:  1 minute</font></li><li>Duration: <font color="#999999"><strike>5.0</strike> <font color="#ffffff">10.0</font> </font>seconds</li><li>Prevents AOE (except when direct)</li><li>Dazes caster</li><li>Stifles caster</li><li>Caster will Dodge 100% of incoming attacks</li><li>Dispelled when target receives hostile action</li><li>Epic targets gain an immunity to Stifle and Daze effects of <font color="#999999"><strike>15.0</strike></font> <font color="#ffffff">30.0</font><font color="#ffffff"> </font>seconds and duration is reduced to<font color="#999999"> </font><font color="#999999"><strike>1.7</strike></font><font color="#ff0000"> <font color="#ffffff">3.3 </font></font><font color="#ffffff">s</font>econds</li></ul><font color="#ff6600"></font> <p><span class="time_text"></span></p><span class="time_text"></span><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Coccinea_Maga on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:37 PM</span>

[Shankonia]

<P>Thanks Lorelily.</P> <P>After looking at them i'll probably run down the wisdom line and throw everything else into avoidance.</P> <P> </P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shankonia wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks Lorelily.</P> <P>After looking at them i'll probably run down the wisdom line and throw everything else into avoidance.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It doesn't work that way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Each skill is intertwined with the next. You must spend 3 points in one skill to open a branch to the next.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These new achievements only enhance our current existing combat abilities like Dragon Breath, Tsunami, Outward Calm, Flying Dragon, Swooping Crane, Will of the Void, Sprint, Skin like Mountain, and others by increasing damage, decreasing reuse timers, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are seperated into 5 catagories.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jab</DIV> <DIV>Punch</DIV> <DIV>Kick</DIV> <DIV>Awareness</DIV> <DIV>Body</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the Awareness skills is a defense stance that decreases our agro with every hit. What use this has as a tank, I do not know, unless you're trying to prevent yourself from stealing agro on a raid.</DIV>

[Illustrious]

<P>Hmm so thats 490 de-aggro for the de-aggro proc at level 5.</P> <P>A max 5% aggro transfer with martial order</P> <P>and a 1.1k+ castable de-aggro</P> <P> </P> <P>Wondering why we need all this, yes a little de-aggro would be nice at times on raids, and in grps where the MT (if not the monk of course) has no additional aggro buff i can see some of it being handy. But all 3 of those things seem kinda over the top to me unless they are somehow going to forget that they ever wanted us to be tanks in the first place and turn us into a leather wearing scout doing a lot more dps. Unfortunatly looking at the other AA options there doesnt seem to be a whole lot to increase dps(not by a huge amount anyway) so it seems that isnt happening.</P>

[scalzo]

By the looks of the de-agro procs and the increase damage it looks like us monks are DPS :smileyhappy:

[KazzySoJaz]

<DIV>From what I have seen, and heard (not in beta), the aa's will just be giving us the dps back from the nerf they will be doing due to combat changes.  It is like taking two steps back, to go 1.5 forward imo...  This is why I am very glad I retired the monk, and now I just feel sorry for everyone else who had high hopes :/</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">It seems we are also getting another skill, Awareness. Someone want to give the 411 on it? Also is it possible to get shots of the "tree" might make it clearer for those not in Beta, now the NDA is lifted. </font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class=date_text>11-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:50 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote:<BR> <FONT color=#66ff00><FONT size=2><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">It seems we are also getting another skill, Awareness. Someone want to give the 411 on it?<BR><BR>Also is it possible to get shots of the "tree" might make it clearer for those not in Beta, now the NDA is lifted.<BR></FONT></FONT></FONT> <P>Message Edited by Zabjade on <SPAN class=date_text>11-04-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:50 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Just the name of the catagory for the achievement spells.</P> <P> </P> <P>The Awareness catagory are: Crescent Strike, Agitate Spirit, Dragonbreath, the De-agro stance, and Martial Order line of abilities.</P>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">We need some dev comment on why a DE-aggro stance....and I still want to see the branch offs ^_^ </font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class=date_text>11-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:38 AM</span>

[selch]

<P>AA's sucks big time... on most classes...</P> <P>however bruisers getting 10% more health... where is our equivalent?</P> <P>Where is our tanking AA's that is promised, not deaggro for sissies?</P> <P>Whoever the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] wanted deaggro can go for scout but leave a fighter class alone...</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>And that is NOT Enchance, it is ALTERNATE</SPAN></P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#6699ff>7.  Enhance:  Martial Order </FONT></STRONG>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 2 or 3 @ rank 3<BR>Adds hate transfer to Martial Order and its higher level upgrades<BR> <UL> <LI>Adds hate transfer by 1%</LI></UL> <DIV><BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>11-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:21 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV><IMG src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/Cusashorn/monktree.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The beast mark in the 3rd row is the de-agro stance. The three Will of the Void icons add new properties in which the spell is capable of curing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The three icons on the bottom require about 15 points spent in previous requirements each.</DIV>

[Yojimbo99]

<P>well i see they gave us a deagrro stance stance and a evade.. lol. well wheres my evac, disarm, smuggle, track,  big debuffs , poison use??</P> <P>this is gonna seal the entire class as melee dps forever now and its about the worst thing that could have happened.</P> <P>its now gonna be expected for monks to have these aa lines and i have a feeling alot of monks where gona take em anyway.. i give up completely on this class as a tank..</P> <P>I have yet to see the guardian or zerk aa's but im going to go  out on a limb here and guess that they are not going to have a deaggro ability much less 2. And im sure its a also a safe bet that neither crusaders will either.</P> <P>its a sad sad day for me i was so looking forward to real increases in tanking preformance. im just glad i took all that "monks will never be tanks" advice to roll up a plate tank .saves me from months of abuse trying play a class that is obvisoully a melee dps class that can solo .. hooray.. </P> <P>2yrs and they still just dont want to come out and say it.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>BTW: In case you can't figure it out, You have to start at any of the skills in the first row and work your way down. How you choose it is all up to you.</DIV>

[TheSummoned]

<blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>AA's sucks big time... on most classes...</p> <p><b><font color="#ffff33">however bruisers getting 10% more health... where is our equivalent?</font></b></p> <p>Where is our tanking AA's that is promised, not deaggro for sissies?</p> <p>Whoever the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] wanted deaggro can go for scout but leave a fighter class alone...</p> <p><span class="time_text">And that is NOT Enchance, it is ALTERNATE</span></p> <p><strong><font color="#6699ff">7.  Enhance:  Martial Order </font></strong>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 2 or 3 @ rank 3Adds hate transfer to Martial Order and its higher level upgrades </p><ul> <li>Adds hate transfer by 1%</li></ul> <div></div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">11-04-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:21 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yea, but we have to waste our AA points in Intervene, Interecede and another intercede spell for spell reduction and we only get the 10% health boost while intervene/intercede/whatever is active, which it most probably won't be on most AE mobs... Can't even put it on the brigand anymore since AR is nerfed to pretty much next to useless.<div></div>

[selch]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>TheSummoned wrote:</P> <P>Yea, but we have to waste our AA points in Intervene, Interecede and another intercede spell for spell reduction and we only get the 10% health boost while intervene/intercede/whatever is active, which it most probably won't be on most AE mobs... Can't even put it on the brigand anymore since AR is nerfed to pretty much next to useless.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh don't forget every riposte triggering Stone Skin as well. Monks are way [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed down to inferiror scouts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>11-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:55 AM</span>

[EvilIguana9]

<hr size="2" width="100%"><b><font color="#6699ff">7.  Enhance:  Martial Order </font></b>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 2 or 3 @ rank 3Adds hate transfer to Martial Order and its higher level upgrades <ul><li>Adds hate transfer by 1%</li></ul> <div><hr size="2" width="100%">Do not get this.  It will make the spell useless when grouping with paladins.  Hate transfers don't stack, throw martial order on the paladin for the extra avoidance and you just killed his ability to hold aggro with amends.  Smart thinking SOE.</div><div></div>

[TheSummoned]

<blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> <p>TheSummoned wrote:</p> <p>Yea, but we have to waste our AA points in Intervene, Interecede and another intercede spell for spell reduction and we only get the 10% health boost while intervene/intercede/whatever is active, which it most probably won't be on most AE mobs... Can't even put it on the brigand anymore since AR is nerfed to pretty much next to useless.</p> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Oh don't forget every riposte triggering Stone Skin as well. Monks are way [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed down to inferiror scouts.</div> <div> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">11-04-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:55 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b> <hr size="2" width="100%"><b><font color="#6699ff"> 16.  Enhance:  Face of the Mountain</font></b><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 13 or 14 @ rank 3 Increases the mitigation of Face of the Mountain and its higher level upgrades <ul> <li>Increases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 3%</li> </ul> <b><font color="#6699ff"></font><font color="#6699ff">6.  Enhance:  Beckon </font></b>-- Classification:  Awareness-- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 1 or 2 @ rank 3 Increases the taunt amount of Beckon and its higher level upgrades <ul> <li>Increases taunt amount by 3%</li> </ul> <font color="#6699ff"><b>26.  Dodge</b></font><b><font color="#6699ff"> </font></b>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  5 -- <font color="#ffffff">Ranks:  1</font><font color="#ffffff"> -- Prerequisite:  </font><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff">Requires 15 points in Body</font></font>Allows the monk to automatically dodge the next melee attack and any non-direct area effect abilities within the next few seconds.  This disable the monk's autoattack and use of abilities while in effect <ul> <li>Duration: 5.0 seconds</li><li>Prevents AOE (except when direct)</li><li>Dazes caster</li><li>Stifles caster</li><li>Caster will Dodge 100% of incoming attacks</li><li>Dispelled when target receives hostile action</li><li>Epic targets gain an immunity to Stifle and Daze effects of 15.0 seconds and duration is reduced to 1.7 seconds</li> </ul> <hr size="2" width="100%"> Not to mention that a reposte happens every 1 year on yellow and orange mobs and might have a CHANCE at procing the stoneskin on a reposte and both brawlers are already good tanks against whites, blues and greens as is. <div></div>

[Bladewind]

<P>Sweet, about 180 degrees away from what we have been begging for...  We ask for better tools to control group aggro and an avoidance fix.  We get.. 3 de-aggro tools.  That's great for tanking!  I'm glad I didn't preorder yet - this just sucks.</P> <P> </P> <P>Monks are fighters.  Fighters are tanks.  /sigh</P>

[Coccinea_Maga]

Posted the changes from the 11/4 update.<div></div>

[Nerill]

<P>OK, this may come as a surprize to some of you ... so you better sit down.</P> <P>We will <STRONG>never</STRONG> tank as well as our plate wearing brothers and sisters.</P> <P>There is this fighter tree .... more like a totem pole. When it comes to tanking, at the top are Guardians, followed by the other plate tanks and at the <STRONG>bottom</STRONG> is us and Bruisers.</P> <P>When it comes to DPS .... Bruisers and Monks are at the top and it sclaes down to the bottom where you find the Guardians.</P> <P>Here is another shocker .... "avoidance" tanking will never be better than your "mitigation" tanking and only Monks / Bruisers with the absolute <STRONG>best</STRONG> gear and in the <STRONG>perfect</STRONG> group make up will ever be able to tank Epic MOBs and even at that I doubt it will be more than just <U>trash MOBs.</U></P> <P>If you were to picture a totem pole of <STRONG>all</STRONG> EQ2 classes based on DPS or Tanking ability, you would find us somewhere in the middle of both of them. We are a jack of all trades / master of none<STRONG>. The Brawler classes are the <U>most </U>versitle classes in the game</STRONG>.<U> </U></P> <P>If after <EM><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000><U>2 years </U></FONT></STRONG></EM>of playing this class some of this seems new to some of you then you simply have not been playing the same game as the rest of us. I don't know about you, but I can tank <EM>just fine</EM> in expierence groups and provide decent DPS in my guild's raids.</P> <P>It appears that the devs have finally figured out that the Brawler class is used as DPS in 80%+ of this game and our EoF AA's are steering us more in that direction.</P> <P>Honestly people, if you want to tank better it is time to make a plate wearing alt. If you want to DPS much better then go scout or some of the silk wearing classes. If you want to be <STRONG>versitile</STRONG> then continue to enjoy this class.</P> <P>I can not state it any simpler than that.</P> <P> </P>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>Wow, do you guys know how to do anything OTHER than whine? Monks are not JUST tanks, we're a hybrid. We are tank/dps. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way I see the tree, its split pretty evenly between tanking, and dpsing.  I know I am completely useless in a raid for DPS, as I pull aggro when I go over 500dps (pathetic compared to a swashy I know).  For monks who like to DPS, there seems to be alot of good options.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the other side, the tanking side. We get the ability to cure more, increased defensises on our emergency defense stances, faster recast on Tsunami and Outward calm. AND! an aditionaly ability that looks like it would work similarly to tsunami.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am PERSONALLY very happy with the abilities in this tree, and I already have my 50 points planned out.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good job sony! I salute you on a well planned tree that tries to satisfy everyone, but apparently has just made evident the rift between tanking monks and DPSing monks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dynamicman out...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nerill]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DynamicPerformance wrote:<BR> <DIV>Monks are not JUST tanks, we're a hybrid. We are tank/dps. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way I see the tree, its split pretty evenly between tanking, and dpsing.  I know I am completely useless in a raid for DPS, as I pull aggro when I go over 500dps (pathetic compared to a swashy I know).  For monks who like to DPS, there seems to be alot of good options.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Let me make two points.</P> <P>1) I am not sure if you support my last post or disagree with it. It <EM>seems</EM> as though you understand what I had said. Basically, we are a hybrid.</P> <P>2) If you are pulling agro in raids by doing 500 DPS then there is a major problem. Either you need to turn off the storm advance buff as it builds hate and for God's sake .... DON'T TAUNT MOBs. Lastly if your MT can not hold agro from you then he quite frankly is not a very good MT. I never have issues pulling agro from our MT during our raids and I parse between 700 - 800 DPS and sometimes even higher in the right fights. Maybe someone needs to put a scout with hate dump in the MT group ?<BR></P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Every single tank class got maybe 1-3 abilities for increasing aggro control. None got a full line, or any crazy special nice abilities for it. So we aren't exactly being given the shaft in AA's compared to other tanks.It's not the "big fix" for our aggro issues that we wanted, that's for sure. I'd rather that they make a legitimate fix to our basic abilities though, and not have to rely on "add ons" to become the tanks we are supposed to be.As it is.. the detaunts can be considered an addition to DPS, since it'll let us DPS more without pulling aggro. Or at least do more consistant DPS, as it'll help vs spike damage.<div></div>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by DynamicPerformance on <span class=date_text>11-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:12 AM</span>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>Your being very condescending <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I know how to play the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was parsing top 3 last raid I was in, pulling aggro If  I did more than sneeze at the mob. Alot of people had adept1 spells still, and treasured armor (I just finished mastering all my spells)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But still, Monk dps with these AA's set up right could skyrocket to the 1000's, so maybe some deaggro is waranted? Thats all i'm saying <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> A 25% damage increase would be huge.  hum... 1.25 of 800 is...  1000. So looks like we could be drawing some serious aggro.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really like the way sony is going with this, you Can choose to go deep Tank:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1: 3 ranks</DIV> <DIV>4: 3 ranks</DIV> <DIV>6: 5 ranks</DIV> <DIV>8: 5 ranks</DIV> <DIV>9: 1 rank</DIV> <DIV>13: 5 ranks</DIV> <DIV>15: 1 rank</DIV> <DIV>16: 5 ranks</DIV> <DIV>20: 3 ranks</DIV> <DIV>22: 5 ranks</DIV> <DIV>23: 5 ranks</DIV> <DIV>16: 1 rank</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or go for DPS:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Havn't planned a DPS route as I don't plan to be dps ^_^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or stay as a hybrid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Theres a choice here, Choice is good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[JudyJudy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>TheSummoned wrote:</P> <P><B><FONT color=#6699ff><BR></FONT><FONT color=#6699ff>6.  Enhance:  Beckon </FONT></B>-- Classification:  Awareness-- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 1 or 2 @ rank 3<BR>Increases the taunt amount of Beckon and its higher level upgrades<BR></P> <UL> <LI>Increases taunt amount by 3%<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </LI></UL></BLOCKQUOTE><EM>Well, the beckon line is our group taunt - so that makes me a happy camper.</EM><BR> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>I agree also that this bodes well for the DPS geared monk.  I'll be the first to admit - I was looking for more tanking tools.  </EM><EM>We've still some time, however, before things go live.  Who knows?  Things may change.  :smileywink:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>And for some reason if this is etched in stone, then we'll make due with what we have.</EM></DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">...As always, in the end it is all we can do. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Yojimbo99]

<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#6699ff>7.  Enhance:  Martial Order </FONT></STRONG>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 2 or 3 @ rank 3<BR>Adds hate transfer to Martial Order and its higher level upgrades<BR> <UL> <LI>Adds hate transfer by 1%</LI></UL><STRIKE><FONT color=#999999><B></B></FONT></STRIKE><BR>can anyone pls explain this better .. im guessing this is a hate transfer in the sense it siphons hate off another player and builds our hate up...at least thats what i would hope for..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or is this another deagro-shedding transfer .. lowers our hate?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thnx in advance</DIV>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Yojimbo99 wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#6699ff>7.  Enhance:  Martial Order </FONT></STRONG>-- Classification:  Awareness -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 2 or 3 @ rank 3<BR>Adds hate transfer to Martial Order and its higher level upgrades<BR> <UL> <LI>Adds hate transfer by 1%</LI></UL><STRIKE><FONT color=#999999><B></B></FONT></STRIKE><BR>can anyone pls explain this better .. im guessing this is a hate transfer in the sense it siphons hate off another player and builds our hate up...at least thats what i would hope for..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or is this another deagro-shedding transfer .. lowers our hate?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thnx in advance</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is a de-aggro, it transfer percent of your hate to player that you used ability for.. For "I-am-a-sissy-I-dont-want-to-tank" people, opposite of what you, me, many of us hoping for.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>11-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:49 PM</span>

[Yojimbo99]

<P>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] even worse.. i thought the 2 scout deagros where bad enough... but 3 is kinda overkill even for dps'n isnt it?</P> <P>what gonna be the new job... auto attk  and be a hate dump for assasins or something?</P>

[selch]

<DIV>Soon they will give us ability to use bows, wear chain, neutralise traps and ability to see npc's in a radius, then we are completely scout.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Yojimbo99]

<P>im just a bit disapointed to say the least my monk has been in pretty much retirement since a few weeks after kos... i got to 68 in the first month or 2 and went to play alts..</P> <P>i was a unhappy with the tanking ability in comparison to other calsses and was having fun playing a brig and a zerk.. but had alwasy hoped that with eof coming and a hint at balancing things out more between the tanks was goimg to happen</P> <P>so a few weeks ago i finnally hit 70 and although under geared to tank( i blew alot of cash on alts :smileyvery-happy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i figured i would just do the dps role as i had been doing and try and save some cash up and grab what lil gear i would have time for.</P> <P>but with lil in the way of actually improving tanking in the new aa's ( although alot of it looks good for the soloing/dps'n monks) i guess im gonna stay pretty much retired as i have plate class to tank and a brig( ar change really sucks esp to al those raiding brigs.. hell to the whoel raid dps now) to dps with and both of those are by far more accepted in those roles as the monk is in either.</P> <P>i just dont see anyoen ever taking the monk as a serious atlernative to plate tanking with these lines.. its a nail in the tank coffin.</P> <P>preception + fact = accepted truth  or in another way</P> <P>monks are considered dps by alot of folks + monks do decent dps and now have 3 deaggros = monks are dps </P>

[Nerill]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>This is a de-aggro, it transfer percent of your hate to player that you used ability for.. For "I-am-a-sissy-I-dont-want-to-tank" people, opposite of what you, me, many of us hoping for.</P> <P> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You will never, ever, ever, ever be chosen to be the MT of a raid .... ever. Never. Ever. Guardians will always, always, always be chosen to raid tank unless another <STRONG>plate tank </STRONG>is better equiped. Understand ? Do you raid ? I raid and I do <STRONG>everything</STRONG> I can in order for <STRONG>our</STRONG> raid to be a success. This means <STRONG>DPS </STRONG>and using our Heal alot on the initial pull so that our healers can catch up easier without pulling agro. </P> <P>Are you able to tank in xp groups ? I can tank <STRONG>absolutely just fine</STRONG> in an xp group. That is about all you will ever be tanking. Accept it. As it is, 90%+ of groups will want a plate tank anyway. This bias will never change. We are seen as DPS. I have accepted this. You should try to.</P> <P>An increase in my DPS will <U>benefit</U> <STRONG>my guild on raids.</STRONG> That is what the raiding Monk does. If you weren't being so selfish about being the center of attention at a raid you would see that it <STRONG>does not matter</STRONG> who the MT is .... as long as the raid is a success ! Let me repeat that .... <U>it does not matter who the MT at a raid is as long as the raid is a success</U> ! Also, you are aware that in most cases there is only <STRONG>one</STRONG> spot in a raid for a tank. Then there is a second spot for the back up tank in the event your primary tank goes down. That's it ! Everyone else is expected to do 2 <STRONG>basic</STRONG> things .... heal and DPS.</P> <P>We are stuck in the <U>middle</U> of the DPS and Tanking totem poles. We always have and always will be. If you thought that you could play a fighter with some of the best DPS and <STRONG>still</STRONG> be the raid MT than you made a poor choice. Sorry. :smileysad:</P> <P>We are a very versitile class. If you do not like the class after 2 years of seeing where we were and where we are now, then you may want to change classes. After 2 years this whole "I wanna tank Epic encounters !!!!!!!" cry is getting quite stale. It is not going to happen. Again, if after 2 years you have yet to come to this realization then you are in denial. I like my versitility. If I want to be at the <STRONG>top</STRONG> of the parse in DPS then I would roll up a scout or mage. If I want to be the best tank then I will roll up a Guardian. </P> <P>I wish for neither. I enjoy playing one of the most versitile classes in this game and AA's to increase our DPS and our <STRONG>targetabgle</STRONG> heal will help out many Monks and their raiding guilds.</P> <P>So not all of us Monks are upset that SOE is giving us ways to increase the 2 things that we bring to a raid. Now, we might even get back to "pulling" some encounters for a raid. Again, another way that we can help our raid's success.</P> <P>Keep up the good work SOE and understand that some of us appreciate your understanding of what our class has become.<BR></P>

[selch]

<P>I dont give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about tank raiding for your info, and this class will never ever be DPS class, will be seen as DPS class, considering so far even Brigands were tanking good in heroics with their mit if they wanted to, that does not make them tank. Monk is a fighter class, will remain as it is. </P> <P>And mark my words, whenever your DPS will go up than a scout or mage, you will get nerfed each time. So don't keep your hopes high.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nerill wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>You will never, ever, ever, ever be chosen to be the MT of a raid .... ever. Never. Ever.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Technically, you just said that we will be chosen as the MT of a raid.</P>

[Nerill]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <P>I dont give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about tank raiding for your info, and this class will never ever be DPS class, will be seen as DPS class, considering so far even Brigands were tanking good in heroics with their mit if they wanted to, that does not make them tank. Monk is a fighter class, will remain as it is. </P> <P>And mark my words, whenever your DPS will go up than a scout or mage, you will get nerfed each time. So don't keep your hopes high.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Then what are you whining about !?!? Are you having problems tanking Heroic MOBs ? I can give you some pointers if you need them.</P> <P>Secondly, I never said we would out DPS scouts or mages. Reading comprehension is lacking with you. I said we were in the <STRONG>middle</STRONG> of the DPS totem. </P> <P>Honestly, what are you thinking ?</P>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Maybe he was thinking that by your explanation of what the class is supposed to be, why would anyone bother bringing one on a raid where everyone knows how to play their class?<div></div>

[Drussna]

I actually agree with Nerill. Its pretty simple. If you want to purely tank - roll a guard. If you want big dps, roll a mage. If you want to be the jack of all trades and the master of none, stick with the Monk. Personally I was hoping for more utility, I wasnt really expecting the new branch of the AA line to simply improve existing abilities. I love my class, and the new AA lines wont change that. A lot more utility would have made me happy - I enjoy being utilised on raids for my tsunami skill, safe fall, group fd, solo fd. I do moderate damage, and with outward calm and tsunami I can easily pull mobs off the casters when they stray and bring them back to the main tank. Hit FD and lose aggro and you may have just saved the raid. Some nice abilities I would have liked would have been an evac, spirit of the wolf, the ability to cast our own feather to rez groups - basically more utility. But then by the sounds of it, I'm in the minority. I just enjoy playing the game. I dont get my calculator out and break down figures to see what the Bruisers are doing. I dont care what other classes get. If I did, I'd probably roll an alt and try that class for a while.. or betray and become that class.I just have one question for some of the hardcore players here: Do you still enjoy the game? It sounds like your turning it into a mathematical equation which must be studied and balanced. Its a computer game, try to have some fun.<div></div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Here's an interesting thought, we loose so much aggro that the mob's actually switch sides and fight with us??? <span>:smileytongue:</span> Sorry, half sleep, my sister drank most of a 2 liter Volt and thinks I should make her food rather then sleep. </font></font></font><div></div>

[QQ-Fatman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nerill wrote: <P>If you thought that you could play <FONT color=#ffff00>a fighter with some of the best DPS and <STRONG>still</STRONG> be the raid MT</FONT> than you made a poor choice. Sorry. :smileysad:<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> that's called a berserker lol<BR>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drussnaga wrote:<BR>If you want to purely tank - roll a guard. If you want big dps, roll a mage. If you want to be the jack of all trades and the master of none, stick with the Monk. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That's a flawed explanation, let me correct...</P> <P>If you want purely a tank, roll a guard;</P> <P>If you want purely a melee DPS, roll a Scout;</P> <P>If you want our AA's be purely on DPS, roll a scout;</P> <P>If you want to be survivable DPS based jack of all trades, roll a swashbuckler or brigand...</P> <P>Monks and Bruisers are "tank" based jack of all trades, not DPS based.. and should be as it is...</P> <P> </P> <P>That's what I'm talking about, our AA's benefit no visible whatsoever tanking wise improvement. 3 deaggros to be a scout is a bit much while Martial Order line should work like amends, you can have all your DPS and deaggros whatever. But you can't say and I can't accept "We are DPS class" argument that you agree with while we are still in TANK archetype. </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[KazzySoJaz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nerill wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>This is a de-aggro, it transfer percent of your hate to player that you used ability for.. For "I-am-a-sissy-I-dont-want-to-tank" people, opposite of what you, me, many of us hoping for.</P> <P> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff66><STRONG><FONT size=5><EM>You will never, ever, ever, ever be chosen to be the MT of a raid .... ever. Never. Ever. Guardians will always, always, always be chosen to raid tank unless another plate tank is better equiped</EM></FONT></STRONG>.</FONT> Understand ? Do you raid ? I raid and I do <STRONG>everything</STRONG> I can in order for <STRONG>our</STRONG> raid to be a success. This means <STRONG>DPS </STRONG>and using our Heal alot on the initial pull so that our healers can catch up easier without pulling agro. </P> <P>Are you able to tank in xp groups ? I can tank <STRONG>absolutely just fine</STRONG> in an xp group. That is about all you will ever be tanking. Accept it. As it is, 90%+ of groups will want a plate tank anyway. This bias will never change. We are seen as DPS. I have accepted this. You should try to.</P> <P>An increase in my DPS will <U>benefit</U> <STRONG>my guild on raids.</STRONG> That is what the raiding Monk does. If you weren't being so selfish about being the center of attention at a raid you would see that it <STRONG>does not matter</STRONG> who the MT is .... as long as the raid is a success ! Let me repeat that .... <U><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff99 size=5><EM>it does not matter who the MT at a raid is as long as the raid is a success</EM></FONT></STRONG></U> ! Also, you are aware that in most cases there is only <STRONG>one</STRONG> spot in a raid for a tank. Then there is a second spot for the back up tank in the event your primary tank goes down. That's it ! Everyone else is expected to do 2 <STRONG>basic</STRONG> things .... heal and DPS.</P> <P>We are stuck in the <U>middle</U> of the DPS and Tanking totem poles. We always have and always will be. If you thought that you could play a fighter with some of the best DPS and <STRONG>still</STRONG> be the raid MT than you made a poor choice. Sorry. :smileysad:</P> <P>We are a very versitile class. If you do not like the class after 2 years of seeing where we were and where we are now, then you may want to change classes. After 2 years this whole "I wanna tank Epic encounters !!!!!!!" cry is getting quite stale. It is not going to happen. Again, if after 2 years you have yet to come to this realization then you are in denial. I like my versitility. If I want to be at the <STRONG>top</STRONG> of the parse in DPS then I would roll up a scout or mage. If I want to be the best tank then I will roll up a Guardian. </P> <P>I wish for neither. I enjoy playing one of the most versitile classes in this game and AA's to increase our DPS and our <STRONG>targetabgle</STRONG> heal will help out many Monks and their raiding guilds.</P> <P>So not all of us Monks are upset that SOE is giving us ways to increase the 2 things that we bring to a raid. Now, we might even get back to "pulling" some encounters for a raid. Again, another way that we can help our raid's success.</P> <P>Keep up the good work SOE and understand that some of us appreciate your understanding of what our class has become.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I find it funny that someone from nightcap talks about raiding as if they are the best guild at it, hell as if they are even the 5th best guild on their server at it (which they are not) =P</P> <P> </P> <P>I also highlighted just one contradiction within your post, among the many.</P><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:56 AM</span>

[Jagen]

<DIV>      I think I can sum this up for everyone. Ok, brawlers are a fighter class right? When you look under the "fighter" class what options do you get? A. brawler B. Crusader C. Warrior... Keep in mind all of these classes are technically supposed to be considered a tank class, given their innital title. I can understand why brawlers are upset because their class is inferior when it comes to a guardian. If you remember back in eq1 Monks were DPS, how often did a monk tank for your group? Not nearly as often as they do in eq2. Tanking was left to the "Warrior", "SK" or "Pally". They took a different approach with the eq2 "Monk/Bruiser" ( brawler ).</DIV> <DIV>The class is "Versitile".. meaning your not stuck doing or performing the same thing over and over again. You can sometimes tank and you can some times dps... better yet, you can also solo ( pretty well imo ). Your not limited to doing perfoming a single role.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    </DIV> <DIV>     Sure, I agree with deaggro with EoF is simply rediculous and poorly planned, given the fact we ( brawlers ) can simply FD their aggro off; because you know as soon as the mob turns on you, the guardian is going to go on a taunt frenzy, in return allowing you to simply stand back up; rinse and repeat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    I think now is the time where patience is needed. I think now is the time where we need to just "wait and see".. Who knows, maybe Sony got everything right this time. /em holds his breath.. We'll just have to see, until then you can't really speculate or complain about anything, because its not warrented at this time, or needed. </DIV>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> spiphictus wrote:<BR> <DIV>*snip*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    </DIV> <DIV> <STRONG>    Sure, I agree with deaggro with EoF is simply rediculous and poorly planned, given the fact we ( brawlers ) can simply FD their aggro off; because you know as soon as the mob turns on you, the guardian is going to go on a taunt frenzy, in return allowing you to simply stand back up; rinse and repeat.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    I think now is the time where patience is needed. I think now is the time where we need to just "wait and see".. Who knows, maybe Sony got everything right this time. /em holds his breath.. We'll just have to see, until then you can't really speculate or complain about anything, because its not warrented at this time, or needed. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Precisely, FD is all the de-aggro we need.  I guess I can see giving us a negative threat stance for when we are dpsing, but also adding evasion and putting a hate drain on our avoidance buff is way too much.  Quite a bit of the new AA lines were wasted on de-aggro skills that are completely un-necessary while desperately needed tanking improvements (passive and aoe aggro generation) are not adressed nearly enough.  An extra 100-200 threat on my area taunt is not going to cut it...</P> <P>There are raid mobs out there that are best suited for a brawler to tank.  If you just throw a guard at everything you fight, you are being very inefficient.  All fighters are tanks, and there are mobs out there that are designed for non-guardians to tank much better than guardians.  I really doubt most of the people you see complaining about our primary function being ignored want to tank every raid mob - they just want to be a viable tank in raiding situations some of the time.  Brawler viability passively decreases on even the 'brawler mobs,' though, since our new AAs are dps-focused.  3 deaggros but only a minor buff to an already-existing aggro skill?  That is not balanced for a hybrid class - it almost completely favors the dps aspect.<BR></P>

[Yojimbo99]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drussnaga wrote:<BR>I actually agree with Nerill. Its pretty simple. If you want to purely tank - roll a guard. If you want big dps, roll a mage. If you want to be the jack of all trades and the master of none, stick with the Monk. Personally I was hoping for more utility, I wasnt really expecting the new branch of the AA line to simply improve existing abilities. I love my class, and the new AA lines wont change that. A lot more utility would have made me happy - I enjoy being utilised on raids for my tsunami skill, safe fall, group fd, solo fd. I do moderate damage, and with outward calm and tsunami I can easily pull mobs off the casters when they stray and bring them back to the main tank. Hit FD and lose aggro and you may have just saved the raid. Some nice abilities I would have liked would have been an evac, spirit of the wolf, the ability to cast our own feather to rez groups - basically more utility. But then by the sounds of it, I'm in the minority. I just enjoy playing the game. I dont get my calculator out and break down figures to see what the Bruisers are doing. I dont care what other classes get. If I did, I'd probably roll an alt and try that class for a while.. or betray and become that class.<BR><BR>I just have one question for some of the hardcore players here: Do you still enjoy the game? It sounds like your turning it into a mathematical equation which must be studied and balanced. Its a computer game, try to have some fun.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well im glad you agree with nerrill. Your side has been  speaking up now for going on two years. your side looks to have won and i humbly bow out and it looks like soe gave in. Congrats are in order. </P> <P>From release the brawler classes have been billed as tanks. We can sit here and go through dev quote after dev quote where it states as such. We can go over all the updates and combat changes since then as well and see where they have tried to make advoidance tanking a viable option. But in the end it came down to those who said "not in my fanasty game" for whatever reason. People wanted an easy melee dps class to play.They wanted to solo nameds and play tank when they wanted to. People are hung up on preception and old games and realized posions are expensive and scout positioning reqiuired some degree of motor skills. So we are now at the point we are at now. Where  monks  will be bastardized into a lame dps class. Easy mode melee.</P> <P> </P> <P>This forever will change the way the class is veiwed by the player base and there more then likely will not be a step back towards tanking in any signifagant way form here on out. Im not upset, ready to quit or so angry that im goin to quit but i am disapointed.</P> <P> </P>

[JudyJudy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nerill wrote: <P>That is about all you will ever be tanking. Accept it. As it is, 90%+ of groups will want a plate tank anyway. This bias will never change. We are seen as DPS. I have accepted this. You should try to.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>You know...  I respect that you'll do what it takes to ensure that your guild family is successful on raids.  I think everyone should have that outlook in every aspect of the game.</EM></P> <P><EM>But I'll be damned if I accept the bias of the community.</EM></P> <P><EM>Point:  We don't raid very often, but when we do - I'm the designated raid MA in our family guild.  Yes I'll pull agro when told too - Yes I tank adds - Yes I do my best - and YES I want to ensure that the raid is a success.</EM></P> <P><EM>And now you're telling me that I should accept the community's bias and take on the role of DPS and not ask for tools to allow me to fullfill my primary role as a fighter?</EM></P> <P><EM>The role you've chosen for your guild is obviously different then mine.</EM></P> <P><EM>No, I may not be asked to MT yellow/orange encounter raids - but using the tools given to me by SOE, I've on NUMEROUS occasions saved the raid from a total wipe when the MT falls - and no, I don't mean by group FD.  Why not give us the tools to do this more efficiently?</EM></P> <P><BR></P> <HR> Nerill wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Keep up the good work SOE and understand that some of us appreciate your understanding of what our class has become.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><EM>I too appreciate what SOE has done.  I love the class.  Even from a point of view so different than your own.</EM><BR>

[Drussna]

I'd like to here from JudyJudy exactly what it would take to make the new AA line better. What would you remove and put in its place? I've always valued your opinion on these forums and I'm sure you can be constructive in your criticism. I'm guessing from the Monk tank perspective you want some kind of added avoidance or mitigation buff? Or the ability to properly taunt a group and keep aggro on a group encounter? I just view each class type (fighter, mage, scout, healer) as being pretty well balanced. They all have their 'pure' class, and they all scale down to their 'mixed' class. Troubadors dont expect to be on the same dps lvl as an assassin. Coercers dont expect to be on the same dps lvl as a wizard. Fury's dont expect to be on the same healer lvl as a templar. A number of healers have already told us that our avoidance doesnt help in a raid, because on the occasions when we do get hit, we get hit hard and they cant keep us up. You cant expect our mitigation to be the same as a plate wearer, we wear leather not plate. Apparently we keep getting 'nerfed'. I'm yet to see it. I played a Guardian for the first year of EQ2, and I recall LU13 quite clearly. From what the Guardian was pre LU13 to what he became after it is what I'd consider a nerf. I've been playing EoF beta for a week now and I dont see that we're any different now to how we've been.Everything in the game less than epic is easy to tank as a Monk. You guys want new AA's that can help you tank Epics? Or do you just want a hate proc that affects a group encounter? Personally I hope we get it, just so I can read a happy comment on these boards for once.<div></div>

[Yojimbo99]

well im not Judy but i think i could give few insights here<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drussnaga wrote:<BR>I'd like to here from JudyJudy exactly what it would take to make the new AA line better. What would you remove and put in its place? I've always valued your opinion on these forums and I'm sure you can be constructive in your criticism. I'm guessing from the Monk tank perspective you want some kind of added avoidance or mitigation buff?<FONT color=#ffff00> althought a mitigation/adviod buff would be much loved a simple increase in csating times of our temp mit buffs would have been good or even better removing the root/stun componants and making it a snare or  attk speed loss or something else</FONT> Or the ability to properly taunt a group and keep aggro on a group encounter? <FONT color=#ffff00>this would have been ideal in some fashion.. a blue ae taunt..passive hate gain.. amends like art ..or some idea that no one has thought of.</FONT><BR><BR>I just view each class type (fighter, mage, scout, healer) as being pretty well balanced. They all have their 'pure' class, and they all scale down to their 'mixed' class. Troubadors dont expect to be on the same dps lvl as an assassin. Coercers dont expect to be on the same dps lvl as a wizard. Fury's dont expect to be on the same healer lvl as a templar. <BR><BR>A number of healers have already told us that our avoidance doesnt help in a raid, because on the occasions when we do get hit, we get hit hard and they cant keep us up. You cant expect our mitigation to be the same as a plate wearer, we wear leather not plate. <FONT color=#ffff00>no but i did expect advoidance and mitigation to even out  and that our primary role(well what i thought it was anyway) would have recieved more attention. and spike damage and plate vs leather gaps i thought where part of the issue with the new combat rework</FONT><BR><BR>Apparently we keep getting 'nerfed'. I'm yet to see it. I played a Guardian for the first year of EQ2, and I recall LU13 quite clearly. From what the Guardian was pre LU13 to what he became after it is what I'd consider a nerf. <U>I've been playing EoF beta for a week now and I dont see that we're any different now to how we've been. </U><FONT color=#ffff00>that in itself says volumes on the roles of monks then as soe sees them in the future</FONT><BR><BR>Everything in the game less than epic is easy to tank as a Monk.<FONT color=#ffff00> not as a flame but heoric content is easy for swashie/brigs, both preds if they are geared good and agruably pet classes also and prob a host of other classes even it means not having a true tank in any sense of the word </FONT> You guys want new AA's that can help you tank Epics?<FONT color=#ffff00> no not my major concern here but again i think they should have stuck to the fighter primary role here and at least given a better toolset to handle grp/heroic content better</FONT> Or do you just want a hate proc that affects a group encounter?<FONT color=#ffff00> again sweet idea but i would be very open to anythign that would help with ae hate, maybe a proc on temp mit stun lien that would proc hat e to al incoming attks?</FONT> Personally I hope we get it, just so I can read a happy comment on these boards for once.<FONT color=#ffff00> and i am happy :smileyhappy:  im not just up  in arms joy over the eof monk lines</FONT><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>but like i said monk retired(again)  dps brawlers seem to have won and im glad that its going to help alot of ppl out in allowing them to play thier monks as they want .. no hard feelings.. game is still alot of fun and i got alts .. but it does seem to be a back peddaling move on soe's part of what they have been saying since release now..</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Nerill]

<P>First of all, Nightcap is one of the best raiding guilds on the server IMO.</P> <P>Second, when did I ever speak as if it was ? I spoke about <STRONG>MY</STRONG> role in a raid and what I bring to the raid as a <STRONG>MONK.</STRONG><EM> </EM>I have played a Monk since <STRONG>BETA</STRONG> ! I think I know a thing or 2 about my class.</P> <P>I have never proposed for us to be a DPS class. I have never said that we are not in the fighter / tank tree. However, and I'll type slowly for some of  you ..... of .... the ... fighter .... classes .... we ( Brawlers ) .... are .... the .... <STRONG>worst</STRONG> ... tank ... <STRONG>by </STRONG>... <STRONG>design.</STRONG> Of .... the .... fighters .... we .... provide .... some .... of .... the .... highest .... DPS ... <STRONG>by .... design ! </STRONG>Yes, zerkers out-dps us. That is a flaw that should be adjusted. </P> <P>Versatility, versatility, versatility, versatility, versatility !!!!!!!!!</P> <P>As a raiding Monk here is what I bring to the raid:</P> <P>1) DPS - I try to add as much DPS as my class allows in order to bring down the MOB</P> <P>2) Heal - We have one of the largest <STRONG>targetable</STRONG> direct heals in the game. On a 10,000+ HP raid buffed MT we heal on average about 3,000 HPs</P> <P>3) Avoidance Buff - targeable avoidance buff to put on the MT if in their group or place it on the secondary tank if in their group</P> <P>4) Group Haste - I believe mine is 21%</P> <P>5) Stamina Debuff - Mantis Star AA line. I have mine at level 5 and I think it debuffs for 132 points</P> <P>6) Feign Death / Group FD - More of a time saver or an armor saver ( damage on armor can take it's toll )</P> <P> </P> <P>It looks to me like we have a good deal to offer as a class but in a raid ( the way I play my monk ) my <STRONG>main</STRONG> contributions are <U>DPS and a large heal</U>. The EoF AA's help to make both of those <STRONG>better.</STRONG></P> <P> </P> <P>And for the love of God ..... please .... stop whining and tell me ... <FONT size=5>What is it that you can't tank in EQ2 ?</FONT><FONT size=3><STRONG> </STRONG></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>Aside from <STRONG>Epic</STRONG> <STRONG>Raid</STRONG> encounters, what are you whining about that you can not tank ?</FONT></P>

[Morrolan V]

<DIV>Nerill, you're pretty insufferably condescending.  Lots of us here have played Monks for a long time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, I agree EXACTLY with your assessment of our current raid utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also agree that we can tank anything in the game except for epic names.  The tougher names in HoF, however, are way tougher than they should be for us, due to the insane to hit bonuses that cause them to ignore our avoidance.  (Which is the majority of the problem on epic names, as well.)  I can tank those with one healer, but I am top to bottom fabled -- I would imagine that it might be very tough for a mastercrafted/group legendary monk to tank those encounters with only one healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am very disappointed in the current state of the EoF AA tree.  I had hoped for the possiblity of some real differentiation.  The real question I have is why, with AAs, we should not be able to spec our monks to be raid tanks?  Create different trees for tanking (increased avoidance, mitigation, health, hate) and DPS, where the tank tree would allow us to be as good as any other tank at raid tanking.  The choices would be mutually exclusive -- I am not suggesting that we should be able to out DPS other fighters and tank as well as they do -- I'm not asking to be a zerker, for instance  :smileywink:.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really, it remains to be seen whether the rebalancing will allow us to stand in front of epic names.  The proof will be in the pudding.</DIV>

[JudyJudy]

<DIV><EM>Thank you, Torpian, for your interest in my opinion.  I try not to disrespect the thoughts of others, but sometimes I fail.  Especially recently.  So if I do blast someone, my apologies.  :smileywink:</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><EM>With that said...</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morrolan V wrote:<BR> <DIV>The real question I have is why, with AAs, we should not be able to spec our monks to be raid tanks?  Create different trees for tanking (increased avoidance, mitigation, health, hate) and DPS, where the tank tree would allow us to be as good as any other tank at raid tanking.  The choices would be mutually exclusive -- I am not suggesting that we should be able to out DPS other fighters and tank as well as they do -- I'm not asking to be a zerker, for instance  :smileywink:.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><EM>This sums it up in a great statement.  If I may add:</EM></DIV> <P><EM>1) Reduce the timers on the skin like mountain and mountain stance lines.  This in itself will do wonders by allowing many tanking monks the edge to receive the benefit of the mitigation instead of PRAYING it goes off before the epic mob one shots us.</EM></P> <P><EM>2)  Add mitigation to the AA line.  Nothing to take away from our plate brethren, but enough to separate the DPS monk the tanking monk.  Maybe add a % base of the monk's current mitigation total to slash, pierce and crush per rank.  A descent plan may include a 1/2 percentage per rank.  At rank 8 the monk would have a bonus of 4% mitigation to the monk's current mitigation value.</EM></P> <P><EM>3500 mitigation self buffed + 4% = 3640 mitigation</EM></P> <P><EM>A whopping 140 mitigation bonus.  Not ground breaking, but a small edge non-the-less.</EM></P> <P><EM>Or...  A flat mitigation value in itself.  Perhaps 15-20 mitigation per rank.  This would equate to a flat bonus of 120-160 to our mitigation value at rank 8.</EM></P> <P><EM>3)  Take away our Dragon Stance.  In my opinion, we really don't need it as our haste and high DPS potential keep us locked on single targets with no problem.</EM></P> <DIV><EM>4) Concerning our avoidance - I really need to see how it is once EoF goes live.  But from what I've read, it seems solo'ing is becoming a bit harder while tanking the harder epic mobs are becoming a bit easier - but don't quote me on that.  I'm not on test, nor beta.</EM></DIV> <P><EM>Over all I believe we do have good skills to hold agro.  It's just our ability to stand in front of epics and try not to get run over.  It's known mitigation will rule over avoidance.  However, we as fighters have our roles in raids that our not traditional.  I believe it's up to the individual to make that role possible - not for the sake of the individual, but instead for the success of the encounter.</EM></P> <DIV><BR></DIV>

[selch]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I don't quote you on that Kaio, but 4200 self buffed monk is now 3250 self buffed, 3500 selfbuffed monk, now 2800 selfbuffed. New equipment does not bring much better mitigation on top of it. Beside with the diminishing curves, you get lesser and lesser each mitigation increase. So 4% wouldn't be noticeable. (15% mit with more with defensive stance makes +250 mit even much lower degrees than 4000, which is supposed to be gaining better with that in the curve graphics. (So there is a lot of change there to make number comprasion)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I agree our dps is nice without dragon stance, I don't think keeping aggro through massive nukes would be possible even on same target (because nukes = faster, bigger , better than all our CA's, auto-attack etc.) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I am saying for AA's:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Martial Order to work like Amends: "2% per rank of hate generated by the target should be transfered "to" monk", not to opposite way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Instead of adding Will of Heavens abilities --you can't tank solo, can you if not this is healers work--, with single pick, removing negatives of Mountain Stance or Skin Like Mountain</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Adding aditional hate every hit we have parried, deflected, or got missed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But more importanlty "reducing deflection to 5% more and making it uncontested roll just like block" releasing from mob offense checks. After new system, a plate tank will avoid much better than you guys because of uncontested block rate which does not calculated by mobs offense. Shame and R.I.P of "avoidance tanking" </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:08 PM</span>

[mr23sgte]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> QQFatman wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nerill wrote: <P>If you thought that you could play <FONT color=#ffff00>a fighter with some of the best DPS and <STRONG>still</STRONG> be the raid MT</FONT> than you made a poor choice. Sorry. :smileysad:<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>that's called a berserker lol<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thats so True --- LOL ............................. I'm a little underwhelmed myself, our AA's aren't what I was expecting.<BR>

[Nerill]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morrolan V wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nerill, you're pretty insufferably condescending.  Lots of us here have played Monks for a long time.</DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Condescending eh ? Whew ... I was hoping that came across. It is hard to convey emotion sometimes with just text. :smileywink:</P> <P>I am being condescending to those who like to twist my words and make it seem like I am asking for somthing that I am not. I also can not stand when some of us insist that we can't tank when in fact we can. In the beginning we were <STRONG>horrible</STRONG> tanks. SOE has come a long way with our class and we can tank 99% of Heroic encounters just fine. ( Yes, some of the named in HoF are ridiculously hard for us to tank as is Nizara ). We just can't tank Epic encounters. We are at the bottom of the tanking tree. In return we have had the ability to contribute better than average DPS to groups and Raids.</P> <P>Also, as I have pointed out, we actually have a well-rounded skill set and decent amount of utility as well.</P> <P>So we can:</P> <P>1) <U>Tank</U> <EM>Heroic</EM> content just fine</P> <P>2) <U>DPS</U> a respectable amount of damage</P> <P>3) <U>Heal</U> a single target every 3 minutes with one of the single most powerfull heals in the game</P> <P>4) <U>Buff</U> group haste and a target's avoidance as well as <U>de-buff</U> stamina by a decent amount ( Using the AA ability Mantis Star )</P> <P>I'm sorry but I think the Monk class is one of the most well-rounded / versitile classes in the game and for someone to say otherwise just shows a lack of knowledge of this classes abilities.</P> <P>If SOE gives our class the ability to tank <U>Epic</U> content ... great ! I just don't see it happening as we ( Brawler sub-class ) are the <EM>worst</EM> of all tanks by design.</P>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nerill wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>So we can:</P> <P>1) <U>Tank</U> <EM>Heroic</EM> content just fine  <FONT color=#ffff00>Even Rogues tank them;  as fighters we should be much better than this.  Let alone raid tanking to a side, every single fighter should do HoF nameds, Nizara just as same difficulty if that was the case.</FONT></P> <P>2) <U>DPS</U> a respectable amount of damage<FONT color=#ffff00> Every Predator or Rogue does better and their own rights to do this (may be you can pick that option). </FONT></P> <P>3) <U>Heal</U> a single target every 3 minutes with one of the single most powerfull heals in the game. <FONT color=#ffff00>42% , 1.5 minute self heal with addition of AA's 52% ftw, because it is generally monk needing heal.</FONT></P> <P>4) <U>Buff</U> group haste and a target's avoidance as well as <U>de-buff</U> stamina by a decent amount ( Using the AA ability Mantis Star ) <FONT color=#ffff00>While every fighter and scout having 150 self haste with adornments, cloaks and items stacking, 3% extra they will gain from you does not worth your placeholding in group (Yes, 150+21 means 3% difference... )</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:15 PM</span>

[Nerill]

<P>Interesting .... I just read this:</P> <P>Scroll down to the "Siberia275" post.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=38038" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=38038</A></P> <P> </P> <P>A couple highlights:</P> <P>"As a 70 Monk on beta, full AAs and high(er) end T7 gear, <STRONG>I can honestly say that I was able to main and offtank orange x2 named mobs in castle mistmoore with little problems.</STRONG> I was avoiding as if the mob was yellow (6/10 avoids) and rarely did it spike(1.5k - 2.5k Hits, 4k CAs). I was sitting around ~55% Mit and ~65 Avoidance. Definatly a change."</P> <P>"Monk's AAs have potential - lots of it. The only problem is organization, amounts, and negatives."</P> <P>"One line for tanking, utility and DPS."</P> <P>So, for those of you in the Pro-Epic-Tank camp .... it appears like we may be able to actually tank ( at least x2 ) Epic MOBs. At least for now.<BR></P> <P>Oh, and yes Selch, the Monk class is horrible and the sky is indeed falling there chicken little. :smileywink:</P><p>Message Edited by Nerill on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:17 PM</span>

[selch]

<P>Nerill, your I.D problems does not concern me, but as far it goes, this class is not DPS class , will not be DPS class because you please... Your discussion started with Monks are DPS and with new AA's we should be happy. Now, get your high heels down and accept the fact that monk is a tank class, however inferior on this even to Bruisers. </P> <P>Jack of all trades: a.) Main role: Tank, b.) Uses DPS to keep aggro, you should be thankful to reason why DPS is given to you.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Nerill]

<DIV>You really do have a reading comprehension problem !</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nerill on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:32 PM</span>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div></div>He reads perfectly fine, have to remember english is prolly his 2nd or 3rd language.Also, nightcap being a good guild, ha ha ha ha  hahaha. (big big big period)Next, I bet I was in beta before you, what is your point on how long you have played?  Doesn't prove your skill level, especially being in the guild you are in.As for us being ok DPS, we are barely even acceptable on DPS in the raiding environment, hell my level 30 assassin can almost out dps my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] monk with his CAs alone.  With the same buffs, a zerker can out DPS us (if you have people of equal skill levels).  Anyways, when you go to a better DPSing guild, you will notice this.  I was in your shoes a few months ago, until my eyes were opened by my experiences.*edit*Forgot to add that we should be able to tank epics, maybe not as well as a warrior/crusader can, but we should be doing it a lot better than a scout can (which we don't for your info).<div></div><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:42 PM</span>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>From the raids perspective, having a monk tank should be no different from a plate tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From a monk's perspetive, tanking an epic mob should be much harder to do than it would be had that player rolled a plate tank.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks should have the harder time because we are more versitile, and focusing is tough.  BUT the raid as a whole should not suffer difficulties becuase of this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A few months ago, when I hit 70 I tried to tank Courts with a x4 raid of 55-70, I got one shotted on the first 55^^^ heroic group.  I've since radically upgraded my gear and abilities.  I now tank courts at about the same level as my 60 decently geared pally with adept1 skills.  I am really hoping these combat changes fix this problem.</DIV>

[Nerill]

<DIV>Kazzanova, just how many guilds have you been kicked out of ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People who are kicked from guilds are kicked because they are immature, disrepectfull, disruptive or just an all around jack-a**.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I suspect you are a combination of several. LOL</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=36970#M36970" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=6&message.id=36970#M36970</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, why don't you try to grow up and <EM>stay on topic</EM> instead of using this post as a chance to bash a guild that you obviously have some butt-hurt feelings about ?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nerill on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:33 PM</span>

[Azazel-Defia]

<DIV>Let me paraphrase one of the hilarious ironies of this thread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"FD is th eonly deagro ability monks need."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is it just me or did some developer really lose sight of what monks do and why?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They gave monks 3 new agro dumps, and in the process wasted one of our good abilities- Martial Order line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why not scrap all 3 of those worthless deagro abilities and simply add some extra deagro or hate rank decrease to the ONE ability monks use when they DONT want agro- FD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone on the beta forums pointed this out?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Avoidance goes on people you want to protect from getting hit. Unless they make it raid wide, individuals I want to guard rarely want my agro generation. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hey sorry Mr. Wizard, I know I made you take agro..... buuut I blocked one 7k auto attack before he splattered you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I realize that I may see my dps spiking when the expansion goes live. Considering I would need to have 600dps + HIGHER than the MT to start dragging agro (about where conjies I notice start dragging), those dps changes would have to be huge. Still, even at that point I could compensate with only 1 deagro ability- seemlessly melded to an ability it wouldnt damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway I thought this was funny.</DIV> <DIV>Overcomplication is the hallmark of poor design.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Az</DIV>

[Siberia2]

<blockquote><hr>DynamicPerformance wrote:<div></div> <div>From the raids perspective, having a monk tank should be no different from a plate tank.</div> <div> </div> <div>From a monk's perspetive, tanking an epic mob should be much harder to do than it would be had that player rolled a plate tank.  </div> <div> </div> <div><b>Monks should have the harder time because we are more versitile, and focusing is tough.  BUT the raid as a whole should not suffer difficulties becuase of this.</b></div> <div> </div> <div>A few months ago, when I hit 70 I tried to tank Courts with a x4 raid of 55-70, I got one shotted on the first 55^^^ heroic group.  I've since radically upgraded my gear and abilities.  I now tank courts at about the same level as my 60 decently geared pally with adept1 skills.  I am really hoping these combat changes fix this problem.</div><hr></blockquote>Bolded: I agree and disagree. Let me explain: I think that as far as tanking ability goes we should be on par with plate tanks. You can't go anywhere on these boards without Selch screaming fighters are tank, and he's right, after all. Where I disagree is the idea of versitility. I assume you mean versitile in the sense that we can pull either an MT, OT, or partial DPS role? I agree that, that is versitility, but our group and raid utility is limited to an intervene which is shared, group haste, avoidance buff(with Hate if AA), rescue + Tsunami, Heal(Which I use on myself for the cure, or save for an emergency), and GFD(Which is a last ditch, imo). If you really want to cut down the line, any other tank in the expansion is the same thing. There has been talk that Berserkers are overpowered, I won't go into that, and will leave my opinion undisclosed. Guardians have a large amount of group/raid utility, Including ToS, Reinforcement, Assuage, etc. Paladins have heals, intervene, amends, sigil. SKs have deathmarch, intervene. Both Paladins and SKs have respectable AE damage on live. Where they generally lack DPS, we lack utility. Before you post a response, also read this - I have a predisposition to what I post based on what I have seen on beta in raids. Skills(Crush Pierce Slash Parry Focus etc) mean EVERYTHING. That being said, in a raid, I parsed 1200 - 1600. This was complete DPS spec and the perfect group, playing a DPS role. The scouts parsed 1500 - 2k on average. This CAN NOT BE DONE WHILE TANKING. The reason for this is that when you go against a yellow mob(71 - 74, orange is even worse, as imaginable), You will miss 6/10 times, even with significant buffs while tanking. Standing infont of the mob, the defensive stance is the only thing keeping you alive, and it's your worst enemy. Missing also means that dragon stance doesn't proc, which means less aggro. This is the tradeoff to other tanks, who draw their aggro from another(Paladins) or gain aggro while getting hit(Guardian/Berserker). Also, the berserker who main tanked the raid was running into the same problems. As a matter of fact, he did nothing but complain about his difficulty hitting mobs. In the end, however, the raid does not suffer, because any tank will suffice. I, myself, enjoy the DPS aspect with offtanking. I have a general dislike of main tanking, but that's a personal preference. When all is said and done, the difference is no longer in the ability to tank, but the difference in tanking utility and DPS. <div></div>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Avoidance goes on people you want to protect from getting hit. Unless they make it raid wide, individuals I want to guard rarely want my agro generation. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason this change was made to Martial Order was because they are still treating the ability the way it was <STRONG>originally</STRONG> intended. Not the way everyone seems to want to use it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The ability gives the target a LOT more avoidance than the buff gives yourself. The reason you get a buff, is so that you can be in offensive mode and have it on the Main Tank, and still have a decent blocking score for them to use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The ability, since day one, has been meant as a tool for when you are <STRONG>offtanking</STRONG>, not main tanking. You put the buff on the Main Tank... so it makes sense to add a hate transfer to it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quite simply, <STRONG>don't put AA points into that ability if you never intend to use it as an offtank.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I group, I'm <EM>always</EM> putting that buff on the MT. That's how we've always done (I play with my brother, who plays a zerker). It's helped far, far more than when he uses his own ability on someone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But, if that's not your cup of tea... don't freakin' put points into it. Yeesh... it's not mandatory here. It's an offtanking choice, so treat it that way.</DIV>

[selch]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <DIV>The reason this change was made to Martial Order was because they are still treating the ability the way it was <STRONG>originally</STRONG> intended. Not the way everyone seems to want to use it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Question lays here:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why would a tank class need to buff another tank class? Ofcourse giving them more edge of benefit. However, how do you know "it is orignally intended to use on another tank" but "not the priest" in a group setup?  Are we not tanks? Are all of our abilities designed only and only raid in mind? So if that's the case, we are not intented to group tank as well then...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no point or proof that this ability is intended to be used on another tank class, like many other tanks designed to have their own survivability. If a Paladin uses Amends on a monk, that means monk is there to DPS not to tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is designed for both ways in terms of versatility. It is not intended one way or another.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>Actually I was kicked because I retired, and they didn't want me taking up room...So before you try and use smear tactics, do some real research, also this has been on topic the whole time, because it is following everything you post, so for me to be off topic...Also, I know what a real guild is like, been in many, the one on Guk, worst I have been in, called timeless, is still 100 times better than nightcap will ever be [Removed for Content]...<div></div>*edit*I also find it funny that the same guild who kicked me, wanted me back once they figured I was coming out of retirement (which happend when they announced the combat changes).  Now, however, I have tried the changes personally, and it is just hype, and as of November 9th, 2006, my account lapses.  But back on topic, you are a crap monk, who is in a crap guild, period.  It is funny to hear you comment on things you have no idea about, only to be proven wrong by many.  You sir are an SoE fanboy, and you are more than likely sucking up because you filled out a guide app or something last week... So anyways back to what my monk brothers were saying.<p></p><p></p><hr size="2" width="100%">Bolded: I agree and disagree. Let me explain: I think that as far as tanking ability goes we should be on par with plate tanks. You can't go anywhere on these boards without Selch screaming fighters are tank, and he's right, after all. Where I disagree is the idea of versitility. I assume you mean versitile in the sense that we can pull either an MT, OT, or partial DPS role? I agree that, that is versitility, but our group and raid utility is limited to an intervene which is shared, group haste, avoidance buff(with Hate if AA), rescue + Tsunami, Heal(Which I use on myself for the cure, or save for an emergency), and GFD(Which is a last ditch, imo). If you really want to cut down the line, any other tank in the expansion is the same thing. There has been talk that Berserkers are overpowered, I won't go into that, and will leave my opinion undisclosed. Guardians have a large amount of group/raid utility, Including ToS, Reinforcement, Assuage, etc. Paladins have heals, intervene, amends, sigil. SKs have deathmarch, intervene. Both Paladins and SKs have respectable AE damage on live. Where they generally lack DPS, we lack utility. Before you post a response, also read this - I have a predisposition to what I post based on what I have seen on beta in raids. Skills(Crush Pierce Slash Parry Focus etc) mean EVERYTHING. That being said, in a raid, I parsed 1200 - 1600. This was complete DPS spec and the perfect group, playing a DPS role. The scouts parsed 1500 - 2k on average. This CAN NOT BE DONE WHILE TANKING. The reason for this is that when you go against a yellow mob(71 - 74, orange is even worse, as imaginable), You will miss 6/10 times, even with significant buffs while tanking. Standing infont of the mob, the defensive stance is the only thing keeping you alive, and it's your worst enemy. Missing also means that dragon stance doesn't proc, which means less aggro. This is the tradeoff to other tanks, who draw their aggro from another(Paladins) or gain aggro while getting hit(Guardian/Berserker). Also, the berserker who main tanked the raid was running into the same problems. As a matter of fact, he did nothing but complain about his difficulty hitting mobs. In the end, however, the raid does not suffer, because any tank will suffice. I, myself, enjoy the DPS aspect with offtanking. I have a general dislike of main tanking, but that's a personal preference. When all is said and done, the difference is no longer in the ability to tank, but the difference in tanking utility and DPS.<hr size="2" width="100%">Very well said btw...<p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:22 PM</span>

[Nerill]

<P>Yup, I was correct. </P> <P>You are indeed immature, disrespectful and classless.</P> <P>November 9th eh? Good riddence. I think your maturity level suits that of WoW.</P> <P>Have fun.</P>

[selch]

<DIV>Thanks to Hamoto's good news; </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm happy to announce, Martial Order line has been reverted on Enchament to siphon hate from the target applied, not to transfer hate to target.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Siberia2]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div>Thanks to Hamoto's good news; </div> <div> </div> <div>I'm happy to announce, Martial Order line has been reverted on Enchament to siphon hate from the target applied, not to transfer hate to target.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thank you...</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>The wording is still wrong on the martial order buff itself, as it says it gives <i>them</i> hate, but I have yet to test it. Obviously this new change is the way they now have it to be intended, so it will change to be corrected. It's usefulness is obvious when MTing, as it gives more hate, which is priceless. As far as the usefulness, taking this line of AAs is counterproductive if you are an offtank in the main tank group with it on the maintank. 5% won't cause them to lose aggro, but it doesn't help. On the flip side, if you stand in the DPS group often, 5% won't get you killed, either. Throw it on a caster DPS and it may keep him alive for another 30 seconds or so lol. Whether it gives us hate or takes hate from us, the usefulness is still debatable, but siphoning helps since we <i>really</i> don't need three deaggros and it's another tool for tanking. Evade is almost useless, because if you are stealing aggro through a 50% chance to drop 500 threat than I don't know what to tell you. All in all, good change. If you don't like it, don't take it - You can take rank 3 of the Etaunt increase to reach Mongoose instead. :p<div></div><p>Message Edited by Siberia275 on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:31 PM</span>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<div><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote: <div>The reason this change was made to Martial Order was because they are still treating the ability the way it was <strong>originally</strong> intended. Not the way everyone seems to want to use it.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Question lays here:</div> <div> </div> <div>Why would a tank class need to buff another tank class? Ofcourse giving them more edge of benefit. However, how do you know "it is orignally intended to use on another tank" but "not the priest" in a group setup?  Are we not tanks? Are all of our abilities designed only and only raid in mind? So if that's the case, we are not intented to group tank as well then...</div> <div> </div> <div>There is no point or proof that this ability is intended to be used on another tank class, like many other tanks designed to have their own survivability. If a Paladin uses Amends on a monk, that means monk is there to DPS not to tank.</div> <div> </div> <div>It is designed for both ways in terms of versatility. It is not intended one way or another.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Every.. single.. tank.. has an ability like this. Every single one gives more avoidance to the target than it does for themselves.It has nothing to do with "making monks only offtanks", holy crap get over that crap already. I agree that Brawler <b>should</b> be maintanks.... but they gave us this ability LOOONG ago, back in pre-LU 13 so two tanks in one group wasn't wasted space. So that the second tank in the group could not only be mediocre DPS, but also mediocre defense, and that might mean they'd pull their weight. We are talking about Warriors and Crusaders here just as much as Brawlers.Remember back in the day when Bruisers offtank buff was the best cuz it also gave mitigation to the target? Yes.. that was the <i>original </i>intention.Most people I've run into though, try and boost themselves with it, and think only of the target's bonus as a secondary effect. It's because there's no visual representation for when someone is giving you an extra chance at avoiding a hit, so most folks only ever use it as a tank and see the numbers go up.Regardless, it's however you want to use it. If you don't want to use it as offtanking, then don't get the AAs. It's like the deaggro proc... don't get it if you want to be MT. Not that hard a concept.Or they can change it... and make it useless for offtanking. Whichever. It's still a choice based on what you want to use it for.</div>

[Verufian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <P>Actually I was kicked because I retired, and they didn't want me taking up room...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Well, We have had 3 Monks,  the only Monk we booted was a good pal of mine, changed jobs and couldn't raid with us, so I call BS on this.</FONT><BR><BR>So before you try and use smear tactics, do some real research, also this has been on topic the whole time, because it is following everything you post, so for me to be off topic...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I believe you started bashing our guild out of nowhere.</FONT><BR><BR>Also, I know what a real guild is like, been in many, the one on Guk, worst I have been in, called timeless, is still 100 times better than nightcap will ever be [Removed for Content]...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>If you were in Nightcap, and we are "the worse guild you have EVER been in", how can the guild on Guk be your worst?  Do you enjoy contradicting your own comments, in the same sentence?</FONT></P> <P>*edit*<BR><BR>I also find it funny that the same guild who kicked me, wanted me back once they figured I was coming out of retirement (which happend when they announced the combat changes).  <FONT color=#ff0000>I call BS on this as well.  We have 2 monks in our roster, and no need for a 3rd, no matter how "good" you were.  And in the event we ever DID invite a past monk back, this is discussed with ALL officers.  Being an officer, an imaginary 3rd Monk has never crossed our path.  </FONT>Now, however, I have tried the changes personally, and it is just hype, and as of November 9th, 2006, my account lapses.  <BR><BR>But back on topic, you are a crap monk, who is in a crap guild, period.  It is funny to hear you comment on things you have no idea about, only to be proven wrong by many.  You sir are an SoE fanboy, and you are more than likely sucking up because you filled out a guide app or something last week... So anyways back to what my monk brothers were saying.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Judging by these statements, if you were truly in our guild, I would have booted your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] before you "retired".</FONT></P> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> </BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Verufian on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:13 PM</span>

[selch]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raidi Sovin'faile wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Regardless, it's however you want to use it. If you don't want to use it as offtanking, then don't get the AAs. It's like the deaggro proc... don't get it if you want to be MT. Not that hard a concept.<BR><BR>Or they can change it... and make it useless for offtanking. Whichever. It's still a choice based on what you want to use it for.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Thanks for your opinions, they changed it to enchance really this time. Point was in this discussion was number of deaggro tools vs aggro tools. Now 2 deaggros with 2 aggro Achievements.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:33 PM</span>

[Rocksthemic]

Regardless of who is attacking whom... I think the monk changes will be good. We frequently use a monk in our MT group specifically for the avoidance buff on the MT. If guardian is in MT group they put moderate on the monk and it works awesome. IF a monk can step up and be a viable back up tank in EoF, I say more power to them <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[KazzySoJaz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Verufian wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <P>Actually I was kicked because I retired, and they didn't want me taking up room...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Well, We have had 3 Monks,  the only Monk we booted was a good pal of mine, changed jobs and couldn't raid with us, so I call BS on this.</FONT><BR><BR>So before you try and use smear tactics, do some real research, also this has been on topic the whole time, because it is following everything you post, so for me to be off topic...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I believe you started bashing our guild out of nowhere.</FONT><BR><BR>Also, I know what a real guild is like, been in many, the one on Guk, worst I have been in, called timeless, is still 100 times better than nightcap will ever be [Removed for Content]...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>If you were in Nightcap, and we are "the worse guild you have EVER been in", how can the guild on Guk be your worst?  Do you enjoy contradicting your own comments, in the same sentence?</FONT></P> <P>*edit*<BR><BR>I also find it funny that the same guild who kicked me, wanted me back once they figured I was coming out of retirement (which happend when they announced the combat changes).  <FONT color=#ff0000>I call BS on this as well.  We have 2 monks in our roster, and no need for a 3rd, no matter how "good" you were.  And in the event we ever DID invite a past monk back, this is discussed with ALL officers.  Being an officer, an imaginary 3rd Monk has never crossed our path.  </FONT>Now, however, I have tried the changes personally, and it is just hype, and as of November 9th, 2006, my account lapses.  <BR><BR>But back on topic, you are a crap monk, who is in a crap guild, period.  It is funny to hear you comment on things you have no idea about, only to be proven wrong by many.  You sir are an SoE fanboy, and you are more than likely sucking up because you filled out a guide app or something last week... So anyways back to what my monk brothers were saying.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Judging by these statements, if you were truly in our guild, I would have booted your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] before you "retired".</FONT></P> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by Verufian on <SPAN class=date_text>11-07-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:13 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><BR>No one said I was in your guild...<BR><BR>I was actually in (guild removed, so they aren't dragged into this, but let's just say they are at least top 3 on server), thanks...<BR> <BR>Why would I have ever moved cross server to join Nightcap, aka going down in the totem pole...<BR><BR>Also, this makes all replies above nill it would seem, as yet again Nightcap doesn't know what they are talking about (minus maybe Thund)...  Seems to be a trend...<BR> <P><BR><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:33 AM</span>

[Coccinea_Maga]

I'll update the original post after I get home tonight.

[LazyStray]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Verufian wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <P>Actually I was kicked because I retired, and they didn't want me taking up room...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Well, We have had 3 Monks,  the only Monk we booted was a good pal of mine, changed jobs and couldn't raid with us, so I call BS on this.</FONT><BR><BR>So before you try and use smear tactics, do some real research, also this has been on topic the whole time, because it is following everything you post, so for me to be off topic...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I believe you started bashing our guild out of nowhere.</FONT><BR><BR>Also, I know what a real guild is like, been in many, the one on Guk, worst I have been in, called timeless, is still 100 times better than nightcap will ever be [Removed for Content]...</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>If you were in Nightcap, and we are "the worse guild you have EVER been in", how can the guild on Guk be your worst?  Do you enjoy contradicting your own comments, in the same sentence?</FONT></P> <P>*edit*<BR><BR>I also find it funny that the same guild who kicked me, wanted me back once they figured I was coming out of retirement (which happend when they announced the combat changes).  <FONT color=#ff0000>I call BS on this as well.  We have 2 monks in our roster, and no need for a 3rd, no matter how "good" you were.  And in the event we ever DID invite a past monk back, this is discussed with ALL officers.  Being an officer, an imaginary 3rd Monk has never crossed our path.  </FONT>Now, however, I have tried the changes personally, and it is just hype, and as of November 9th, 2006, my account lapses.  <BR><BR>But back on topic, you are a crap monk, who is in a crap guild, period.  It is funny to hear you comment on things you have no idea about, only to be proven wrong by many.  You sir are an SoE fanboy, and you are more than likely sucking up because you filled out a guide app or something last week... So anyways back to what my monk brothers were saying.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Judging by these statements, if you were truly in our guild, I would have booted your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] before you "retired".</FONT></P> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by Verufian on <SPAN class=date_text>11-07-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:13 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><BR>No one said I was in your guild...<BR><BR>I was actually in (guild removed, so they aren't dragged into this, but let's just say they are at least top 3 on server), thanks...<BR> <BR>Why would I have ever moved cross server to join Nightcap, aka going down in the totem pole...<BR><BR>Also, this makes all replies above nill it would seem, as yet again Nightcap doesn't know what they are talking about (minus maybe Thund)...  Seems to be a trend...<BR> <P><BR><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <SPAN class=date_text>11-08-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:33 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Since when does someone's guild invalidate their oppinion?  You may or may not like someone, but for godsakes, stop bashing them.  Personally i found Nerril's posts informative until the flamefest ensued.  The thread title is EOF Monk Achievements, not let's bash nightcap because they suck. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I related to his(shortening because typing one handed from holding baby) playstyle and even thought the new AAs were good when i first read them and don't understand why so many monks are deadset on being raid MT.  I love my class and i do tank instances with 1 healer, but I just recenty got into raiding and really don't understand why you just don't let the guard take most MT situations.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, my playstyle is i group with a zerker 100% of the time, we run instances looking for cash and items to improve our raid survivability.  She MTs, i OT, but at the point we are (not very far)  I steal aggro by using 4 CAs through the fight.  I know how to maximize my DPS so i don't just burn through my CAs like I've seen most other monks in the game do, but still, i have yet to see a parser where the zerker outDPSes me so i liked the new deaggro AAs so i could turn them on and go all out DPS and let her keep aggro.  Like I said, just got into raiding, so I haven't seen any raid parses yet.  I've grouped with scouts before, and at lvl 64 I outDPSed lvl 67 rangers and same lvl wizzy.  Am now 70, and my wife (the zerker) always tells me how much more DPS i do that she notices when tanking if I go afk, even with us, 3 mages and a healer filling out the group, so I don't see how us being a DPS is insulting or why so many monks don't want to be considered DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, just the .02 from a casual semi-raider</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[JudyJudy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LazyStray wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I related to his(shortening because typing one handed from holding baby) playstyle and even thought the new AAs were good when i first read them <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>and don't understand why so many monks are deadset on being raid MT</FONT></STRONG>.  I love my class and i do tank instances with 1 healer, but I just recenty got into raiding and really don't understand why you just don't let the guard take most MT situations.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>Too be honest, and I'm not speaking for every tanking monk out there but merely giving my opinion based on my playstyle and roles I've chosen, I believe that many of the tanking monks out there wish to have tools to make tanking more viable in the raid setting.  This does not always mean being in the MT position.</EM></P> <P><EM>For example, in a raiding scenario:</EM></P> <P><EM>If mobs happen to peel from the MT - having the ability pull those mobs back to the MT with the confidence of not being one-shotted.  Let's face it - Many raid mob CA's and the "to-hit" modifiers of most epics will just eat through our Tsunami.</EM></P> <P><EM>Having the ability to rescue when the MT/MA go down - buying time for the healers to scramble with a quick rez, with (once again) the confidence of not being one-shotted.</EM></P> <P><EM>Assuming the MA position of a raid with the same thoughts in mind.</EM></P> <P><EM>Off-Tanking mobs with the same thoughts in mind.</EM></P> <P><EM>So you see, many of the tanking monks in our community do not seek the glory of the MT position, contradictory to what people may think.  Sure it's fun, sure I'll do it if asked.  But we too want to be a solid part of the raid offering options that can ensure a successful experience other than just mediocre DPS.</EM></P> <P><EM>And the monks built to tank, by sacraficing dps - should have the tools to do just that in my opinion.</EM></P> <P><EM>Btw - typing with one hand deserves MUCH respect.  Especially with a little one in your arms. :smileywink:</EM></P>

[JudyJudy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR><B><FONT color=#6699ff>16.  Enhance:  Face of the Mountain</FONT></B><B><FONT color=#6699ff> </FONT></B>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 13 or 14 @ rank 3<BR>Increases the mitigation of Face of the Mountain and its higher level upgrades<BR> <UL> <LI>I<STRIKE><FONT color=#999999>ncreases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 3%</FONT></STRIKE></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Increases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 10%</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________</FONT></P> <P><EM>While I'm dreaming again...</EM></P> <P><EM>A casting time reduction here would just do wonders.</EM></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Zenith]

<DIV>The overall concept is as a monk you are not pure dps. You're a hybrid with dps sacraficed to have tank abilities. The problem is in a raid situation that tank part of us is utterly useless. So we're by nature still short on dps to have those useless tanking functions. I think that's where people get angry, because we're built to be a fluid mix but can't be in raids.</DIV>

[Bladewind]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZenTouma wrote:<BR> <DIV>The overall concept is as a monk you are not pure dps. You're a hybrid with dps sacraficed to have tank abilities. The problem is in a raid situation that tank part of us is utterly useless. So we're by nature still short on dps to have those useless tanking functions. I think that's where people get angry, because we're built to be a fluid mix but can't be in raids.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually, we were built as avoidance tanks while platers were built as mitigation tanks.  Brawlers, like all fighters,  were tanks from the get-go - not dps, and there is a backlog of dev posts confirming this as the 'official' vision for the class.  Up until the release of KoS, a brawler could tank any content in the game.  There were hiccups and times of difficulty in there, but all content prior to the release of KoS was brawler-tankable, be it a mole rat or Barakah.  The difficulty always laid in balancing avoidance and mitigation with one another.  The named/raid mobs in KoS were given insanely high to-hit bonuses to compensate for the growing avoidance percentages that plate tanks could achieve.  These to-hit bonuses invalidated avoidance tanking as a viable way to tank these higher-end encounters because avoidance tanks were not seeing the same increases in their mitigation as plate tanks were seeing in their avoidance.  </P> <P>As far as dps hybridization goes, about 4-6 months after the game was released, offensive stances were introduced/enhanced to give fighters the ability to dps when not performing in the MT role.  This was done in part so raids would be able to accomodate multiple fighters rather than just one or two, and technically makes all fighters 'dps hybrids.'  In addition, it also helped guardians, who had  difficulty soloing early on and had been begging for a way to up their damage abilities when not tanking.  Any fighter with proper gear, buffs, and AA choices can do decent to good dps.  Brawlers and berzerkers especially excel as we have a slightly more offensive bent.  Do you consider a berzerker a dps hybrid as well?  Our brawlers and zerks all sit around 600-900 dps on a typical raid encounter when they are assuming a dedicated dps role.  Offensive guardians and crusaders with comaprable weapons do 400-600 usually, but are not in groups where they recieve dps buffs (and the paladins are on rez/ward/spot heal duty).  When played well, there is a small disparity between brawler/zerker dps and guardian/crusader dps, but it is not the chasm that most people make it out to be.</P> <P>The short of what I am saying is that all fighters were designed as tanks, but thanks to the introduction of offensive stances,  flexible AAs, and the equipment choices you can make, you can take any fighter and make them into a stand-up damage dealer.   The big flare up in the brawler tank vs dps controversy was limited to post-KoS thanks to the to-hit bonuses that elite mobs were receiving.  The combat changes that are now incoming are supposed to address that issue through the stats and mob rebalance.  </P> <P>Both the KoS AAs and the EoF AAs offer tanking and dpsing choices - what the 'tank monks' are hoping for is that if we choose to spec ourselves primarily for tanking, that we will indeed be able to tank all content like we had been able to prior to KoS.  As was pointed out already, most of us are not seeking to always MT raids - once in a while, sure, but otherwise, I just want to not be a gimped 2-shot offtank like I am now.</P>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZenTouma wrote:<BR> <DIV>You're a hybrid with dps sacraficed to have tank abilities. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As above post stated, your ideal monk in your mind is quite opposite to what truth is.. Given the lack of aggro tools, we are provided more DPS tools "to keep aggro" in our own fashion. If you really look at "REAL" dps classes, you will see deaggros at all of them, why do you think we never had?  Because we are build to generate aggro with our damage.</P> <P>So we actually sacrificed (this is not a good word to use) passive aggro gaining abilities and RNG dependancy tanking for DPS and sad to see after time passes this truth has been forgetten and we are sadly labeled among many "new players" as DPS class.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:04 PM</span>

[selch]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JudyJudy wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR><B><FONT color=#6699ff>16.  Enhance:  Face of the Mountain</FONT></B><B><FONT color=#6699ff> </FONT></B>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 13 or 14 @ rank 3<BR>Increases the mitigation of Face of the Mountain and its higher level upgrades<BR> <UL> <LI>I<STRIKE><FONT color=#999999>ncreases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 3%</FONT></STRIKE></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Increases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 10%</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________</FONT></P> <P><EM>While I'm dreaming again...</EM></P> <P><EM>A casting time reduction here would just do wonders.</EM></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, not to be spoiler of suprise but It is 1 seconds cast now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[scalzo]

The more tanking tools the better IMO.

[JudyJudy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JudyJudy wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR><B><FONT color=#6699ff>16.  Enhance:  Face of the Mountain</FONT></B><B><FONT color=#6699ff> </FONT></B>-- Classification:  Body -- Cost per rank:  1 -- Ranks:  5 -- Prerequisite:  Requires 13 or 14 @ rank 3<BR>Increases the mitigation of Face of the Mountain and its higher level upgrades<BR> <UL> <LI>I<STRIKE><FONT color=#999999>ncreases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 3%</FONT></STRIKE></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Increases crush, slash, and pierce resists by 10%</FONT></LI></UL> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________</FONT></P> <P><EM>While I'm dreaming again...</EM></P> <P><EM>A casting time reduction here would just do wonders.</EM></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, not to be spoiler of suprise but It is 1 seconds cast now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>NO way....</EM></P> <P><EM>WOOOOOHOOOOO!</EM></P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:<BR></P>

[Coccinea_Maga]

New tree line up -- there have been changes to some of the achievements.  I'll try to get them written up before Tuesday, but I might wait until everything is live.<img src="http://legion-whiterose.com/screenshots/raids/Lorelily/monk111206.jpg"><div></div>

[Cyngii]

<DIV>Having been in Beta for awhile, my biggest problem is I wanted more from the achievements.  As far as character advancement goes there are no new levels and there are no more spells.  Yes you can aquire new gear, but when it comes down to experiencing, "gaining levels", etc... this is it.  There really isn't a way to truly define yourself with the new achievements like i hoped you'd be able to.  Yeah the deagros would be nice, but where is the increased damage to go along with that for the DPS monk?  Don't forget that melee damage and our CAs have been nerfed.  Yeah we get improved haste, but it takes a butt load of haste over 100% to make a big difference.  For the tanking monk you get the improved Taunt, some quicker CA casts, improved disspelling.... The problem is from what I could tell while testing different combos was nothing was really noticeably different with the exception of improved skin like mountain.  This however takes a lot of points to even get to, and once again is the cheap brawler fix (the just give us more mitigation fix).  To be honest I'm more thrilled about the adornments than the achievements (+400hp and +14 parry to name some).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In defensive stance I'm normally around 65% avoidance and in group am hitting 70%, yet tanking in the new combat system doesn't seem to be noticeabley different if not worse.  I found myself not even being able to tank level 73+ new content in defensive stance since I couldn't even hit the mobs... literally only hitting 10% of the time.  For a class that utilizes damage and procs for agro control, not being able to hit things while in defensive stance is rough (compare as an example the warrior KoS achievement that removes all negative effects from offensive/defensive stances).  More often than not i would pull in defensive stance til the chanter mezzed everything, then would switch to intermediate stance just to actually touch mobs.... all of this considering I was getting hit for 3000+ while in defensive stance.  Granted I'm talking about challenging zones with mulitple level 72+ ^^ and ^^^ in the same encounter, but from what I have seen that's what the majority of higher end content is like.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Essentially I think things are exactly where they were prior to EoF and the new combat system.  For some reason they can't make avoidance tanking work without trivializing encounters with plate tanks... even with deflection being a brawler specific skill.  Seeing as what i was talking about above occurred today, I'm hoping some major tweaks occur prior to EoF being released since a lot of monks i've talked to were hoping this combat revamp would be another class affirming revamp for us.   In parting, if you were happy with the monk prior to EoF you'll still be happy, if you weren't then roll a fae berserker since they MT raids just fine and outdamage brawlers at the same time (berserker in general... but Fae are cool).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Cyngii on <span class=date_text>11-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:23 AM</span>

[Cirth_Beer]

Did you tryed tanking since saturday night to hit change (<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=eof_beta_combat&message.id=1419#M1419" target=_blank>dymus post</a>) ? But i feel like you about all of this.<div></div>

[PrimusPilus]

<P>The solution to making avoidence tanking better without trivialising content for plate tanks seems simple, increase the avoidence penalties for plate and probably chain, then ramp up the scaling of avoidence again. Before it didnt matter as much that say a berserker could reach 65% avoidence, since avoidence had limited effect, now that it has greater effect there needs to be a greater gap between avoidence tanks and plate tanks. In addition, it just looks silly that a heavily armored plate tank can dodge almost as well as a much less heavily armored monk.</P> <P>Another possible solution is to change the way deflection scales or add deflection (reduce the -5% nerf to it), since only brawlers use deflection that allows you to change only brawler avoidence without changing plate avoidence.</P> <P>At least this would get it a little closer to what the Devs target is, as well as making things just plain seem more realistic.</P> <P> </P>

[Illustrious]

<P>I have been led to beleive recently that Block scales only depending on the Con of the mob u are fighting where as deflection along with defense and parry scales with Con + mobs offensive skills (or to hit bonus).  Which effectivally means that against high con (yellow/orange) epic for example then a plate tank carrying a nice tower shiled will not only mitigate better (as they should) but will probably avoid better also (which i dont think they should)</P> <P> </P> <P>Until they either make deflection follow the same rule as Block or remove the "to hit" bonuses completely i dont see our place in the tanking heirachy changing in the slightest. </P> <P> </P> <P>and who keeps saying we are the best fighter dps is also a little off, zerkers with buckler line can still parse in the top   5 on raids as MT on a zone average of 1200-1400 with individual fights of well over 2k. Until i see any brawler tanking and dps like this at the same time (on correct tier content) then i count monks 3rd best fighter dps after zerker and bruiser, with maybe SK above us also sometimes depending if the zone has many multi target encounters or not.</P><p>Message Edited by Illustrious on <span class=date_text>11-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:53 AM</span>

[WhispyKrakoMiso]

Does the sprinting AA saves our power cost every tick <u>or</u> only the first tick when we start sprinting?  Thank you very much in advance.<div></div>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WhispyKrakoMiso wrote:<BR>Does the sprinting AA saves our power cost every tick <U>or</U> only the first tick when we start sprinting?  Thank you very much in advance.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>just the initial power cost to cast it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[WhispyKrakoMiso]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>RyanTSi wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> WhispyKrakoMiso wrote:Does the sprinting AA saves our power cost every tick <u>or</u> only the first tick when we start sprinting?  Thank you very much in advance. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>just the initial power cost to cast it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr>Dang, I guess it was too good to be true.  T_T   </blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by WhispyKrakoMiso on <span class=date_text>11-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:10 PM</span>

[Jobeson]

<div></div>lol browsing multiple pages at once... bound to reply to the wrong post...Anyways to at least add something my main problem with EoF AAs is our 5% hate leach AA.  You are unable to toggle the ability.  The use of this AA hinders the ability greatly if you are not always tanking.  I would rather block 25% the attacks on the tank when I am not tanking.  Please change it to a toggle SoE.<p>Message Edited by Jobeson on <span class=date_text>12-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 PM</span>

[Jessyme]

<P>THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for making this post Lorelily!  :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>I have been hoping someone would take the time to do this.  </P> <P>Any chance we can get this stickied?  </P> <P>This will be helpful to lots of monks out there.  </P> <P>And thank you DynamicPerformance for your tanking recommendations.  Just what I was hoping for :smileyhappy:</P> <P>Again, nice work Lorelily!  *fingers crossed a forum moderator stickys this soon*</P> <P>Quijana</P> <P> </P>

[Coccinea_Maga]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jessyme wrote:<div></div> <p>THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for making this post Lorelily!  :smileyvery-happy:</p> <p>I have been hoping someone would take the time to do this.  </p> <p>Any chance we can get this stickied?  </p> <p>This will be helpful to lots of monks out there.  </p> <p>And thank you DynamicPerformance for your tanking recommendations.  Just what I was hoping for :smileyhappy:</p> <p>Again, nice work Lorelily!  *fingers crossed a forum moderator stickys this soon*</p> <p>Quijana</p> <hr></blockquote>The acheivements have changed from what I have posted.  I've been having a hectic month, so I haven't had a chance to update them.I'll try to get them corrected by the end of the week.</div>

[WaachBack]

<P>Just a FYI, master's evasion only stops ONE attack, it does not last for 10 seconds like it says in the description.</P> <P>I guess since it only costs 1 point it is ok, but the description needs to be changed.</P>

[psubull]

<div><blockquote><hr>WaachBack wrote:<div></div> <p>Just a FYI, master's evasion only stops ONE attack, it does not last for 10 seconds like it says in the description.</p> <p>I guess since it only costs 1 point it is ok, but the description needs to be changed.</p><hr></blockquote>It's bugged, supposed to be a stifle/daze tsunami for 10 seconds.To stifle/daze us for one guaranteed avoid is nothing short of ridiculous, even if it's only one AA point</div>

[selch]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> psubullet wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WaachBack wrote:<BR> <P>Just a FYI, master's evasion only stops ONE attack, it does not last for 10 seconds like it says in the description.</P> <P>I guess since it only costs 1 point it is ok, but the description needs to be changed.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>It's bugged, supposed to be a stifle/daze tsunami for 10 seconds.<BR><BR><BR>To stifle/daze us for one guaranteed avoid is nothing short of ridiculous, even if it's only one AA point<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, ridicilous for avoidance tanking anyway, if it was absorb a guaranteed hit, then would be somewhat useful even buggy <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jobeson]

I took it as the AA is simply an aoe immunity.  The If not targeted option sort of says it is not for tanking.   I use it on raids all the time and love the aoe / barrage immunity.  I believe it is working as intended.  If they change the skill to do this then I would like it even more for training and the like.  <div></div>