Bruiser vs. Monk (non High End)

[greyf]

<DIV>I recently came back to EQ2 and I have a question about the Monk class.  Last week, my girlfriend and I started playing again, and since I always have played an Ogre plate class (in EQ1 I was a Warrior in a Time+ guild) she made a human Fury to keep me company.  My Guardian was tough... but I had a hell of a lot (in retrospect) of trouble in most of the solo quests staying alive vs. moderately tough mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This weekend, my girlfriend decided that she actually wanted a Dark Elf, so, to keep her company, I created a Ratonga Bruiser for fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That Rat has done nothing but kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  I think I've only died once on her (first female toon I've ever run, but the girls are much better looking... more like mice than rats <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  She is able to solo everything, and rarely ends any enounter with more than a blip in her Power.  I for one was torn between admiration for the class (Bruiser) and angst over my primary class choice (Guardian).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, to the question at hand.  For duoing and single grouping (more duoing), will I see the same sort of jaw-dropping performance from a monk that I did with her as a Bruiser?  Is that merely a low-level thing and she'll fast become a paper tank agains "real" mobs?  Again, remember, at this point, we've agreed we will not be raiding, as our schedules are much more comfortable without that.  I think living in Freeport isn't really an option (it doesn't agree with our personality or her aesthetic), but the Guardian might find the Rat pushing him out of main status.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Thanks in advance for your thoughts, and sorry for the dbl posts <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by greyfin on <SPAN class=date_text>10-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:42 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by greyfin on <span class=date_text>10-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:51 AM</span>

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> greyfin wrote:<BR> <DIV>I recently came back to EQ2 and I have a question about the Monk class.  Last week, my girlfriend and I started playing again, and since I always have played an Ogre plate class (in EQ1 I was a Warrior in a Time+ guild) she made a human Fury to keep me company.  My Guardian was tough... but I had a hell of a lot (in retrospect) of trouble in most of the solo quests staying alive vs. moderately tough mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This weekend, my girlfriend decided that she actually wanted a Dark Elf, so, to keep her company, I created a Ratonga Bruiser for fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That Rat has done nothing but kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  I think I've only died once on her (first female toon I've ever run, but the girls are much better looking... more like mice than rats <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  She is able to solo everything, and rarely ends any enounter with more than a blip in her Power.  I for one was torn between admiration for the class (Bruiser) and angst over my primary class choice (Guardian).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, to the question at hand.  For duoing and single grouping (more duoing), will I see the same sort of jaw-dropping performance from a monk that I did with her as a Bruiser?  Is that merely a low-level thing and she'll fast become a paper tank agains "real" mobs?  Again, remember, at this point, we've agreed we will not be raiding, as our schedules are much more comfortable without that.  I think living in Freeport isn't really an option (it doesn't agree with our personality or her aesthetic), but the Guardian might find the Rat pushing him out of main status.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Thanks in advance for your thoughts, and sorry for the dbl posts <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by greyfin on <SPAN class=date_text>10-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:42 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by greyfin on <SPAN class=date_text>10-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:51 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well tbh you are better off playing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruiser / Defiler combo for possibly the best duo combination you can get <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>brusier gets higer burst damage and tanks better than a monk </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>monks get better haste/auto attack and ermmm .. ermmm ...... ermmmmm they .. umm well ? erm get to live in Qeynos !! yea thats it (sorry cant think of anything positive atm im sure the monkies here will help)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>btw u cant be a ratonga monk unless u betray either .... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.p.s we dont become paper tanks thats just people misconceptions and badly prepared healers </DIV>

[greyf]

<DIV>The backstory to this is that all these characters are betrayers</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Human Fury --> Fury (done)</DIV> <DIV>Ogre Guardian --> Guardian (done)</DIV> <DIV>Ratonga Bruiser --> Monk (in process)</DIV> <DIV>Dark Elf Inquisitor --> Templer (in process)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I didn't really make it clear... the quests I am comparing are from the Island through Exile... both the Ogre AND the Ratonga (Guardian and Bruiser) have betrayed. The Rat is just starting the faction quest.  So whether they betray isn't an issue, what is at issue is how hard a knock she'll take respec'ing as a monk (inevitable) and if at that point I should consider shelving the Ogre Guardian for duo/group work. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I KNOW that, at this level, the Bruiser Ratonga combo is fighting circles around the what the Guardian Ogre could do.  Changing her to a monk might make the advantage lesser, as could higher levels of content.  Its also possible I am just doing something horribly wrong on the Guardian.  I know its a fairly open-ended question; the only think I can say for sure is that Bruiser isn't really an option unfortunately since Freeport isn't really an option.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as paper tank, I've always assumed that there is only one choice to "tank" if you need a tank... in EQ it was the Warrior and in EQ2 it seems to be the Guardian.  What I failed to think about is, with our change in playstyle (duo/group, no raiding for now) makes the classic tank's advantages moot (i.e. no heal chain working together to keep you up).  Efficiency will be an advantage, so the paper tank comment may be more my prejudices hanging on past their useful lives <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the feedback though.</DIV>

[Jeradim]

<P>IMO plate tanks only have an advantage against raid mobs where avoidance tanks just aren't an option in most cases.  Anything else up to and including Epicx2's I've been able to tank no problem with my Monk.  With my Monk/Fury duo most group content is fair game.  I think the advantage bruisers have in small groups (duo's and trio's) over a plate tank is that they do a lot more DPS and so mobs go down faster.  They also have an array of stuns/stifles at their disposal to mitigate dmg.</P>

[Nerill]

<P>Using a Monk or Bruiser with a healer in a Duo group is one of the most efficient ways to duo. A Guardian with a healer just doesn't put put the kind of DPS that a Bruiser / Monk and Healer combo will do. Duoing even-con (white) and blue ^^^ heroic MOBs is cake with a Bruiser / Monk - Healer combo. One of the main differences is that the Monks Heal is targetable, meaning you can throw an emergency heal on your girlfriend if she has agro, giving you time to taunt it off her. A Bruiser's heal is self only. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>Because Monks and Bruisers are "avoidance" tanks the Cleric's reactive lines are not optimal for healing us. Either Shaman ( Mystic / Defiler ) is what I consider to be the best healer for our class followed by the Warden / Fury Druids.</P> <P>I think the BEST DPS Tank / Healer combo would be Bruiser / Fury. Personally I like Monk / Warden ..... but um .... thats because I have a 70 Monk and 70 Warden. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Illustrious]

<DIV>If you are mainly going to duo, then Brawler/Shammy combo prolly one of the best colesely followed by a brawler/druid combo. Ditch the Guard and get yourself a tank (for heroics at least) that can also push out some  decent dps and has an ok heal for emergencies also. Put that together with the training/FD runs for quest  updates and i think you will have more fun than the solid but low dps guard that has less utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Obviously as a duo you wont be completing HoF or Nizara anytime soon, but a monk/defiler combo can easily beat every named in PoA f.ex and im pretty sure a monk/fury could also, so anything up to that difficulty should be ok and thats a fair amount of content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Illustrious on <span class=date_text>10-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:28 AM</span>

[Lerai]

<DIV>how are monks at PvP?</DIV>

[selch]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Illustrious wrote:<BR> <DIV>Obviously as a duo you wont be completing HoF or Nizara anytime soon, but a monk/defiler combo can easily beat every named in PoA f.ex and im pretty sure a monk/fury could also, so anything up to that difficulty should be ok and thats a fair amount of content.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I second that <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As monk / warden duo we used to play, I concur everything here. For HoF, may be we should wait for avoidance ignoring of mobs to go with EoF, oh and Nerill, Berzerker currently have upper hand, both tanking & dps wise, sorry to say... However I agree with power of FD helping a lot for quest updates.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>10-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:48 PM</span>

[greyf]

<DIV>Well, its been borne out in our playing for the last week: this duo (Fury/Monk) is probably twice as effective as the Guardian/Templar.  In a way its sad since I've been a plate class for many years... on the other hand, we are having a heck of alot of fun being effective for a change so I will sit happily until the 'bat swings this way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for all the feedback.  I've found that, although there may very well be a Bruiser advantage, its subtle compared to the advantage I get abandoning the Guardian, so I am not going to worry about it.  Plus its nice being one of a very few Ratmonks ever created on the server (55 total)! </DIV>

[silvername]

well. enjoy. I know a monk who is a ratoniga. they very fast. im talking scary. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DwarvesR]

<DIV>A while back a guildie made a high elf monk she wanted to betray to bruiser.  I duo'd with her on my fury and we got her through her betrayal and up into her mid 40's in about 3 weeks.  XP just flew becuz the bruiser/fury combo could take on yellow ^^^ heroic content easily with little to no downtime.  We even killed Varsoon when we were level 34.  We *almost* took him at 32, forgot to try at 33, and he was a cakewalk at 34.  Very powerful combo.  I've got a 45 monk that I've duo'd with a mystic off an on over the levels, and while we're solid and dependable in our ability to kill things, I don't think we are as effective as that bruiser/fury combo was.  The fury's buffs felt like they helped the bruiser's dps more than the mystic's buffs do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mystic gives: STR, moderate hp, moderate power, and a nice mitigation buff + regenerating ward.  There may be more, but this is all I recall seeing on me when I play my monk, and I have a 39 mystic too, and this is all I can think I would be giving.  Admittedly, they *are* my 2 least-played toons, though, so my memory may not be perfect about them.  That said, the mystic has some really nice debuffs in combat, and while the dog doesn't do *that* much, it's still a constant dot, and every little bit helps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fury gives: STR, AGI, large power buff, INT (not necessary, but it's part of the power buff), in-combat health regen equivalent to T4 food, minor power regen, berzerk proc, damage shield, and mitigation too.  The fury eventually gets porcupine too, while the shaman only gets a big ward.  Bruiser sitting at 80% mitigation while dishing out massive damage from the porcupine > big ward in my book.  Not that it gets used much due to it stunning the fury so he can't heal what damage is being taken while at that 80% mit.  Add that the fury has 2 good dots and 2 really nice nukes, and eventually gets the ring of fire plus can heal a damage spike like it never happened. . . .  Only downside I see to the fury is its lack of debuffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I don't really know defilers, so maybe they bring more to the table than a mystic, but in my book, fury wins over the mystic in the duo with the brawler.</DIV>