Pure DPS

[Rylog]

Hey there, I just hit 70 and I'm going to be raiding quite a bit on my monk. I'm toying around with some things and am just curious what the best build for pure dps would be for a brawler.I was thinking 448 str stam and wis for maxxing the unnarmed, mantis bolt, and crane twirl.But I have a few questions about this.First, how does crane twirl scale? Does the % also go up as the rank increases? I know mantis bolt does.Secondly, if I use my fists, I know that is counted as a two hander. Now with most procs, I'm told the % of a proc scales to the speed of the weapon. Does this mean that with fists it will go off "slightly more" since it's a slow weap, but maybe moreso with the double attack? (I hope that came out somewhat clearly).Another thing I'm worried about is I always hear people saying that fists are not as good once you get two dw with 55+ DR each or a two hander with 110 DR. Now guildies of mine have been telling me the opposite and that fists are just awesome dps. Please give me some input.-Fonk in the Trunk<div></div>

[Siberia2]

448 Stam/Wis/Int would be better if you have access to higher DR dual wields. Crane twirl scales with rank, it's 8% at rank 8. Fists in theory should proc more than a dual wield due to slower speed, and a double attack, afaik, no longer has a change to proc anything. I deal relatively the same damage unarmed as with my weapons, it varies. If you really want something fun, try to get yourself a vraksakin claw club and worm your way into a 100% DPS Mod group. <div></div>

[Mala-Shea]

<P>I used to be a huge proponent of unarmed...because it was untouchable for straight dmg. I spec'd out 448 str, 448sta, 448 int and could consistently pump out 1200+ dps...over 1500 in the right group. Then they nerfed double attack procs and some other stuff and now it doesnt matter what you do, your dps is mediocre at best. I am huffing and puffing to break 800 with T7 fabled dualies. The club is nice because of the high top end dmg on crits...actually it's just freaky, my HH is like 4596, auto attack. I have seen some monks over 5k with it. But the fact of the matter is, our class is quickly becoming useless to raids.</P> <P>Sounds like your on the right path, but my taste towards my own class has been soured. I am sick of all the dps nerfs, then on top of that go try to raid tank T7 as a monk...a joke...a sick joke mind you seeing as we are supposed to be tanks...but a joke none the less. </P> <P>Want best of both worlds? Roll a zerker. They will out tank you and out-dps you on any given encounter. Makes me wanna quit.</P> <P> </P> <P> /whine off</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Supp]

<DIV>Im 4-4-8 Str, Sta, Int with no weapons and doing quite well DPSwise in my raid guild. I dont feel gimped at all. I have to say Im truly concerned what will happen to my dps when i get two 57+ DR dualies and switch my AAs around. </DIV>

[Ethelwo]

<P>I recently aquired my second of the twin calamities and my dps took a big jump up. I have heard that the trick is to use two duel weapons with the same delay.  Having weapons with delays that don't match actually drives your dps down. So regardeless of your choice of duel wields, try to get the delays to match.</P> <P>Fists of Bashing 2.5 sec delay matches the one hand staff dropped from the Crab in the adventure pack.</P> <P>Fists of Pain 1.8 sec delay matches Mars Fist, Hand of Destruction and Jade Chokida Prod.</P> <P>Bonetooth Skewer 1.2 sec delay has no matches at present other then the Katar of the Four Winds, (Claymore quest) and thats low damage. Wish it had a Fabled match.</P> <P>The Twin Calamities both have a 1.6 delay and are a great set. Hard to get though, need many trips into Vymm's Lab to get them both.</P>

[Supp]

What AA lines did you go down? Perhaps you can save me some trouble when I make the switch.

[PrimusPilus]

Note a problem with unarmed AA, and that is, for the same amount of dps, it seems to draw more agro. I think this is because sometimes you get two big hits together, that is, sometimes you hit bam bam, sometimes BAM bam, but draw agro when you hit BAM BAM. I do know that unarmed definatly draws a lot more agro than dual wield, I have seen our unarmed monk draw agro off our dirge buffed raid tank rather to often, probably due to that strength ring proc to dps plus a BAM BAM or two, plus i did it myself and had to slow down back when I was unarmed, although we had no dirge then.An advantage to unarmed seems to be that a strength dps buff proc ring seems to go off more often with unarmed then with say dual wield, although I am not certain of that. That would add some to dps if true.The double ranged attack advantage is slated to go away in LU27 (enjoy it while you can).

[Ethelwo]

Actually I tried a few different AA lines, but finally settled on Intel line down through 8 in critical and a full wiz line with 8 in crane flock, The double attack spell at end of wiz line hits all mobs in the group and can really rack up some damage in 16 sec. Just wish the reuse timer were like 3 minutes as oppossed to 5. On raids I ussually save it for nameds because I dont need to go all out on the non nameds anyways. They really dont pose much of a threat to my guild. I play as a team member and really dont care how I parse. If the mob dies then we win and thats all that counts. In a raid, parses mean nothing, If your in a group with a high dps mod buffer then you parse high if not then not so high. So the parse really doesn't tell the story. We have those childish maxers in the guild that cry if their not in a coarcer/inquisitor group because they feel superior with their high parses. take them out of those groups and they aint as hot as they like to think they are. As far as Im concerned parsing is the worst thing to come to gaming ever. It just screws up team work and tells a false story.

[KnowH]

<P>Yeah, the STR line isn't what it used to be.  Honestly, it's more about group setup than it is about your own personal build.  Some nights I'm consistently over 1k, other nights, I'm fighting to break half that :-p  I'm probably one of the most decked out monks on my server, with many fabled weapons and I've probably respec'd AA lines the most too ><  When it comes down to it, spec what will be beneficial to both your solo game and your raid game.  A raid is about the combined benefits of your group and if you're in a crap group, it doesn't matter how you're spec'd.</P> <P>But I agree with the vrak club and dps mod route, OMG, it's so fun critting for 5k.  Of course, being the fool that I am, I declined to roll on it when it first dropped and we haven't seen it since.  Luckily I sometimes get to play the other monk in the guild that got that drop, for times when I need a big hit fix =D</P>

[KazzySoJaz]

The best dps setup that I have found without two 60+ dmg rating weaps = this4-4-8 str4-4-8 int4-4-8(-1 I picked deflection as my last point) staIn an all fighter group my best parse = 912 dpsIn a dps group I have parsed 1300+ on trash in LyceumI only have fists of bashing currently, but I am holding out for the 63 dmg rating calamity and I will drop 4-4-8 str and go wis, but until then I rather have sta or int over wis.<div></div>

[Nerill]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR>The best dps setup that I have found without two 60+ dmg rating weaps = this<BR><BR>4-4-8 str<BR>4-4-8 int<BR>4-4-8(-1 I picked deflection as my last point) sta<BR><BR>In an all fighter group my best parse = 912 dps<BR><BR>In a dps group I have parsed 1300+ on trash in Lyceum<BR><BR>I only have fists of bashing currently, but I am holding out for the 63 dmg rating calamity and I will drop 4-4-8 str and go wis, but until then I rather have sta or int over wis.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I am curious ..... you say that you have Fists of Bashing currently but obviously you can't use them with 4-4-8 in Strength.</P> <P>So, what is it that you do with a fabled weapon that you can't equip with the Str line of AA's ?</P> <P>I'm sort of lost on that. :smileyindifferent:<BR></P>

[KazzySoJaz]

<DIV>Back when I posted this, it was sitting in a bag, where it remains today ( I now have 63 dmg rating calamity and fists of bashing)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I am now spec'd out as 4/4/8 in sta/int/wis, however, I have not noticed much of a difference on parses.</DIV>

[Nerill]

<P>OK, so you were still going weaponless <EM>at that time</EM>, just making a statement that you had Fists of Bashing in a bag waiting to get dusted off and once obtianing Calamity, you would be busting out those Fists of Bashing to use with Calamity. Since then you have gone back to using weapons and have respec'd out of the 4-4-8 Str line and redistributed those AA points into 4-4-8 Wis.</P> <P> </P> <P>Forgive me .... I'm an old guy and can confuse easilly. Thanks for clearing it up for me.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now, I have seen the Fists of Bashing on the broker and can buy them ( for 25pp ) but is Calamity a No Drop item ? Actually .... if you know .... where does the Fists of Bashing and Calamity drop at ?</P> <P> </P> <P>One last line of questions.... You said you have not noticed much of a difference DPS-wise from going fistless with the AA Str line and using the 2 weapons mentioned and going with the AA Wis line. What sort of numbers are you seeing now vs. before ?</P> <P>Personally, at Lv 70 with mostly master spells and Ancient Velium Claws & my Prismatic ( +12 in-combat power regen and a 147 - 274 dmg proc every 20 swings or so and I just can't put this one in the bank ) ... anyway .... most fights lasting about 25 - 35 seconds against roughly lv 68 group MOBs and I am parsing between 500 and 550 DPS.</P>

[Ethelwo]

<P>Well in the end the str line is ok until you get good weapons, I have both of the twins now and they do ok dps. I've respeced my aa a number of times and the fact of the matter is, that whichever way you go on AA your not going to out dps many of the other classes in the game. Monks bring haste to the group as well as group FD and the ability to pull mobs and live where others would die. Thats it. Your dps isnt ever going to be anything higher then the middle of the pack no matter which way you spec your AAs.</P> <P>Choose your primary weapons and then spec your AA to get the most out of them. If your primaries change then respec your AAs to match.</P>

[Nerill]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote:<BR> <P> I've respeced my aa a number of times and the fact of the matter is, that whichever way you go on AA your not going to out dps many of the other classes in the game.  Thats it. Your dps isnt ever going to be anything higher then the middle of the pack no matter which way you spec your AAs.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I realize that we are Fighters and therefore Tanks. We are the second worst tanks (besides bruisers) but should, in-theory, have the second best DPS of the fighter tree. I also realize that we will never out DPS the DPS classes and will be middle of the road DPS.</P> <P> </P> <P>That still is not stopping me from trying to get the most DPS out of my character as I can since I usually trio with a healer and conjurer and the stupid conjurer pet is a better Tank than I am and most of my equip is Legeondary ! :smileysad:</P>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ethelwolf wrote:<div></div> <p>Well in the end the str line is ok until you get good weapons, I have both of the twins now and they do ok dps. I've respeced my aa a number of times and the fact of the matter is, that whichever way you go on AA your not going to out dps many of the other classes in the game. Monks bring haste to the group as well as group FD and the ability to pull mobs and live where others would die. Thats it. Your dps isnt ever going to be anything higher then the middle of the pack no matter which way you spec your AAs.</p> <p>Choose your primary weapons and then spec your AA to get the most out of them. If your primaries change then respec your AAs to match.</p><hr></blockquote>I disagree, I have been in two t7 raiding guilds, and I am usually in top 3 dps, before I was making top 3 dps in an all fighter group (when I was on Guk with Timeless) now I am usually in a dps group in Five rings, and I still am in top 5 even without full dps on (usually 26% from krommus).  Now I am usually only beat by a conj, and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], and sometimes krom.  Our top 5 dps changes quite often, depending on the mob, who is being lazy etc.  I have rarely had problems beating out wizzies though, seems fabled and mastered out scouts seem to give me a run + more for my $.Back to where the calamities drop, they drop in Vyemm's Lab a raid zone in Bonemire.  The fists of bashing drop in Halls of Seeing, which is also where the fists of pain drop, another t7 raid zone.</div>

[Nerill]

So if one were to get a hold of The Fists of Bashing and The Fists of Pain ( since they are NOT No-Drop and they could be purchased ) then fighing weaponless would not be the route to go and it would be better to go 4-4-8 Int, 4-4-8 Sta and then what ????

[Kainsei]

<blockquote><hr>Nerill wrote:<div></div>So if one were to get a hold of The Fists of Bashing and The Fists of Pain ( since they are NOT No-Drop and they could be purchased ) then fighing weaponless would not be the route to go and it would be better to go 4-4-8 Int, 4-4-8 Sta and then what ????<hr></blockquote>I guess Wis, for the health bonus and the ae/knockback 8% proc.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KazzySoJazzy wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>I have rarely had problems beating out wizzies though, seems fabled and mastered out scouts seem to give me a run + more for my $. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Your casters suck then.<BR>

[KazzySoJaz]

If you read up I said a conj beats me out every time cept sometimes I can inch him out.  I have had wizards beat me in the past, but like I said with 100% dps 100% haste and twin calamity + fist of bashing, with sta/int/wis @ 4-4-8 I almost always beat out the wizzies.  Of course when I am not 100% dps etc the wizzies beat me, anyways, just repeating myself from the post above since god here missed it.<div></div>

[Gaige]

<P>You shouldn't beat wizards.  That is my point.  Even with 100% dps/haste and two mediocre weapons you shouldn't beat wizards.  /shrug.  You should never beat summoners ever, lol.</P> <P>If you are in top 3 that means you are beating out wizards, warlocks, assassins, brigands, swashbucklers... all classes that should beat you.</P><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class=date_text>08-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:11 PM</span>

[Ethelwo]

<P>Kazzy, sorry man but your guild needs some work if your out dpsing other classes. It either means your guild doesn't have the right classes in it or they are and have crap gear.</P> <P>You should never out dps many classes period. If you are, then something is wrong with your team mates. It's not speaking bad of you. Its just the way it works. I never beat the big hit casters, but on the Amorphose Dragon in DT I top the melee parse only because I swap weapons during the fight while the others don't. I set it up for a fast swap by using a two hander on first mob and then switching to my calamities when it splits.</P> <P>You learned something today, hehe</P>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>You shouldn't beat wizards.  That is my point.  Even with 100% dps/haste and two mediocre weapons you shouldn't beat wizards.  /shrug.  You should never beat summoners ever, lol.</p> <p>If you are in top 3 that means you are beating out wizards, warlocks, assassins, brigands, swashbucklers... all classes that should beat you.</p><p>Message Edited by Gaige on <span class="date_text">08-28-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>assa. is usually in the top, we just have two people who dropped their other mains for brigs, so yes their gear sucks, no swashies, no locks, well no truly active locks, and as for wizzies they seem pretty well geared to me.  I agree maybe they arent the best players of their classes in the entire game but I am also not in the oo we are uber today guild.  Anyways lately our parses have 800-900 dps @ the bottom of top whatever it is that ACT spams.  Me and krommus depending on the zone are always within the top few listed by the parser, and we usually fight for the top spot in the brawler union, anyways I am telling you guys what I do, just because I dont have uberness in my guild doesn't mean I am wrong in what I say because I am going off of personal experience.</div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by KazzySoJazzy on <span class=date_text>08-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:32 PM</span>

[Cirth_Beer]

humm a question on dps ... what do you use to do range dps ? (on some raid encounter where you cannot melee)<div></div>

[Nerill]

<DIV>Thanks Kazzy and <SPAN class=field_data_small>Kazzanova for the DPS tips.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small>I wrote that stuff down.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small>Weaponless: 4-4-8 <STRONG>Str</STRONG> , 4-4-8 Int , 4-4-8 Sta</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small>With weapons: 4-4-8 <STRONG>Wis</STRONG>, 4-4-8 int , 4-4-8 Sta</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small>Right Now I am using Ancient Velium Claws (53.4 rating) and Pristine Imbued Ebony Fighting Baton (43.9 rating)</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small>One last question ....</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small>Is it true that your weapons Damage ratings have to <STRONG>add </STRONG>to approximately <STRONG>118 </STRONG>for it to be better to go weaponless ?</SPAN></DIV>

[Gaige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nerill wrote:<BR> <DIV><SPAN class=field_data_small>Is it true that your weapons Damage ratings have to <STRONG>add </STRONG>to approximately <STRONG>118 </STRONG>for it to be better to go weaponless ?</SPAN> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup.  You start to notice the difference around 57dr, but its really apparant at 60+.<BR>

[KazzySoJaz]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nerill wrote:<div>Thanks Kazzy and <span class="field_data_small">Kazzanova for the DPS tips.</span></div> <div><span class="field_data_small"></span> </div> <div><span class="field_data_small">I wrote that stuff down.</span></div> <div><span class="field_data_small"></span> </div> <div><span class="field_data_small">Weaponless: 4-4-8 <strong>Str</strong> , 4-4-8 Int , 4-4-8 Sta</span></div> <div><span class="field_data_small"></span> </div> <div><span class="field_data_small">With weapons: 4-4-8 <strong>Wis</strong>, 4-4-8 int , 4-4-8 Sta</span></div> <div><span class="field_data_small"></span> </div> <div><span class="field_data_small">Right Now I am using Ancient Velium Claws (53.4 rating) and Pristine Imbued Ebony Fighting Baton (43.9 rating)</span></div> <div><span class="field_data_small"></span> </div> <div><span class="field_data_small">One last question ....</span></div> <div><span class="field_data_small"></span> </div> <div><span class="field_data_small">Is it true that your weapons Damage ratings have to <strong>add </strong>to approximately <strong>118 </strong>for it to be better to go weaponless ?</span></div><hr></blockquote>I still have yet to see much of a difference in dps.  I think this is due to the crushing debuff given by the str line, that allows the str line to put only a short distance between it and 2 of the best dw fableds.</div>

[123467]

I am a 35 Monk (PVP) and making my way up slowly with combat experience off to maximize my number of AAs. I have currently invested in the STA line and I am carrying imbued mastercrafted weapons. Should I focus on the STR line next and drop the weapons or should I go for the INT line first and see where I end up when I have maxxed that one?(Just curious of the order I should invest in).

[githyanki]

In regards to your question 123456789 i'm currently a 62 monk and went str line first.  For one its cheaper then having to buy weapons every tier as you lvl.   And two its a very easy way for good dps with very little effort.  I ended up going  4 4 8 in str line somewhere in my early 50's and am currently filling up my sta line for a few more hp's and later on the proc line.   I'll worry about getting the big nice damage rated weapons from drops and save a ton of cash and time for later on.  Not having to worry about buying or getting lucky in groups for weapons from your 30's till your way close to 70 is a very nice comfort zone to be in.   And then when you do get a chance at nice weapons just respec your aa's.

[Sandy]

<P>just one first quest bros.</P> <P>as wis line is AE effected, will it break chanter's mez during battle?</P>

[123467]

Thank you for your post githyanki. I have a woodworker alt that supplies me with imbued fighting batons, an alchemist that supplies me with combat arts (and potions) and a Tailor alt to make my armor and charms (on a pvp-server leveling slowly is the way to go <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )So gearwise I expect to be ok equipped all the way. STR-line is however a nice way of doing it with when you can avoid the hassle of getting weapons. The important question: Will the STR-line OUTDPS mastercrafted weapons on any tier?

[mr23sgte]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sandylo wrote:<BR> <P>just one first quest bros.</P> <P>as wis line is AE effected, will it break chanter's mez during battle?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes it will break mezz, its toggle though and the recast is pretty quick.<p>Message Edited by mr23sgte on <span class=date_text>09-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:16 AM</span>

[Drevva]

I had a quick question for those in the know. I'm thinking or working on my monk alt (currently mid 30s).  But want to stick with staff/baton weapons.  Is that a reasonable thing to do dps -wise?  (I've always really liked the staff animations).  Are there decent legendary and fabled melee staff type weapons available?   Anyone else gone that route? Thanks for any info Drevva