Tsunami changes...

[Sick1]

<DIV>With the new update, you no longer deflect if you are not in combat (read into that, tsunami).  When I first read that, I didnt think it would be that big of a deal - that is was mostly to curb training or something and I never used it that way anyhow.  But I was in labs today and went to pull a mob over to the MT and BLAM, dead monk.  Tsunami + outward calm before, let us pull epics to the MT.  Now, I am wondering how that is still going to be possible.  Tsunami does not work at all if you arent in combat.  Many mobs now need to be body pulled with the new changes to social aggro.  Was just wondering what you guys thought...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sheer, 70 monk</DIV>

[eyes007]

Why don't you turn on auto attack before u pull, you're doing the exact same thing you would normally, but instead you are now in combat mode, then you can cast tsunami. It's only an idea,I haven't tried it, but maybe it wll work. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

[Xibi]

Wow is this confirmed?  This really hurts monks in pvp because tsunami was a god send when high levels attack you and you're trying to run away.    It's not really practical to attack and get into combat because then you'll never get away.

[RyanTSi]

if thats true that kinda sucks, i'll have to play around with it some

[Wiou]

They changed a good skill to another "oh, i never use that" skill<div></div>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> eyes007 wrote:<BR> Why don't you turn on auto attack before u pull, you're doing the exact same thing you would normally, but instead you are now in combat mode, then you can cast tsunami. It's only an idea,I haven't tried it, but maybe it wll work. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>that does work, as long as your character is in combat mode, you will reposte. if your not though tsunami wont work.

[Shankonia]

<P>That's pretty messed up. </P>

Good Job SOE. First making Talon a .5 cast time ability...and also changing tsunami. Not like these are big changes..I personally don't care about the changes. But the point is brawlers need to be changed drastically to give them an identity. These pos little changes are a slap in the face.<div></div>

[Coccinea_Maga]

<div><blockquote><hr>KR wrote:Good Job SOE. First making Talon a .5 cast time ability...and also changing tsunami. Not like these are big changes..I personally don't care about the changes. But the point is brawlers need to be changed drastically to give them an identity. These pos little changes are a slap in the face.<div></div><hr></blockquote>They didn't "change tsunami"; they changed the way riposte works.  Tsunami will still parry any incoming <b>auto-attacks</b>.</div>

[Cirth_Beer]

it's still a bad side effect for us <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><hr>Coccinea_Maga a écrit:<div><blockquote><hr>KR wrote:Good Job SOE. First making Talon a .5 cast time ability...and also changing tsunami. Not like these are big changes..I personally don't care about the changes. But the point is brawlers need to be changed drastically to give them an identity. These pos little changes are a slap in the face.<div></div><hr></blockquote>They didn't "change tsunami"; they changed the way riposte works.  Tsunami will still parry any incoming <b>auto-attacks</b>.</div><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[Almeric_CoS]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wiou wrote:<BR>They changed a good skill to another "oh, i never use that" skill<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wow, some quality whining on this thread.</P> <P>The change was not made for Tsunami, the change was made for anyone NOT using Tsunami, including Monks.</P> <P>I know there have been plenty of times when I've riposted on a mob that I didn't want to fight, and BOOM no more runspeed buffs.  Between this and the very similar proc change, one should no longer wind up in a combat they didn't actively initiate.</P> <P>So what if there's a lame side effect.  Pull with a [Removed for Content] star and hit Tsunami as the mob runs towards you.  Problem solved =P</P>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Coccinea_Maga wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KR wrote:<BR>Good Job SOE. First making Talon a .5 cast time ability...and also changing tsunami. Not like these are big changes..I personally don't care about the changes. But the point is brawlers need to be changed drastically to give them an identity. These pos little changes are a slap in the face.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>They didn't "change tsunami"; they changed the way riposte works.  Tsunami will still parry any incoming <B>auto-attacks</B>.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>actually no, it will not parry attacks from the front.......the way tsunami works is that it will reposte form the front and parry form the back...since you can no longer reposte from the front tsunami will provide 0 protection from attacks to the front and still only parry form behind.

[Strepto]

<P>I had the same issues in Lab yesterday.  Turned on Tsunami + Outward Calm and bam I was dead.</P> <P>Now the question is how do we go about "body pulling" social mobs?  Won't turning on auto-attack cause the mobs nearby to come as well?  This is rather frustrating...</P>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Strepto wrote:<BR> <P>I had the same issues in Lab yesterday.  Turned on Tsunami + Outward Calm and bam I was dead.</P> <P>Now the question is how do we go about "body pulling" social mobs?  Won't turning on auto-attack cause the mobs nearby to come as well?  This is rather frustrating...</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>i dont think it will be a problem, they will aggro when you get close enough to them which will be out of melee range so you wont hit them till they run over to you. You can also just target yourself and turn on autoattack to be safe.<BR>

[Timaarit]

<blockquote><hr>Coccinea_Maga wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>KR wrote:Good Job SOE. First making Talon a .5 cast time ability...and also changing tsunami. Not like these are big changes..I personally don't care about the changes. But the point is brawlers need to be changed drastically to give them an identity. These pos little changes are a slap in the face.<div></div><hr></blockquote>They didn't "change tsunami"; they changed the way riposte works.  Tsunami will still parry any incoming <b>auto-attacks</b>.</div><hr></blockquote>Well, the description in Tsunami says 'will riposte 100% of incoming frontal attacks' so it shouldn't be just <b>auto-attacks</b>, it should also be all CA's since they are attacks just like auto-attack is. Unless of course there has been a stealth nerf for Tsunami. And for OP, my monk has always been oneshotted by epics while using Tsunami and ward. This is due to some unavoidable CA's those epics have. There has been a discussion about these and how they affect the game balance in favor of the mitigation tanks (after all, they cannot be avoided so mitigation is everything with those). Thuse when I pull with Tsunami, result has usually been a dead monk unless I get out of CA range in time, or I have been in a group with a templar and defiler and with 10k+ health.<div></div>

[Luceus]

<P>To weigh in on the topic:</P> <P> </P> <P>I am usually the FD puller for our raid force and have noticed a couple ways to efficently pull mobs without dying, despite the Tsunami issue:  1.  Engage a mob with a body pull and use sprint to get to the MT then FD, 2. Engage the mob(s) in autoattack then use Tsunami as stated above, and 3. If in is safe to do so--mobs being outside of social aggro ranges--use a hex doll to pull then throw up Tsunami and it will work as well.</P> <P> </P> <P>I hope this helps, grant it, it is only what I have found to work for myself.</P>

[Microphage]

<DIV>Yea I was the puller for a raid ( for the first time) a few days ago and it seemed like a large % of the mobs just ignore tsunami.  Why just FD when you can do the real thing! :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Could some of it be level related?  Some of the epics were 5 levels above me.</DIV>

[Xibi]

Tsunami doesn't work if you aren't in combat anymore.  That's probably why they were ignoring it.

[Ethelwo]

Throw your single target taunt and it will work.

[KnowH]

<P>Actually the changes improve training, since riposting will throw you into combat, thus reduce your run speed.  Same goes for the proc on Marr's Fist... As soon as you deflect and the proc goes off, that puts you in combat and reduces your run speed.  This especially sucks when you are training someone and they're not in combat and they pass you, since they're right on your heels to start with, and end up agroing mobs.  Though yelling the enc lets you run fast again, sometimes you're not able to yell fast enough.</P> <P>I guess I missed the note about riposte not working until entering combat (or didn't pay attention to it).  Normally, I'd throw a knife at the mob, but with the new social agro system, body pulls become more important.  You *should* be able to target the mob, turn on autoattack (from far away), put up outward calm and tsunami, then get into proximity agro range before landing an attack (and, thus, possibly agroing the whole room).  If you don't turn on autoattack, you'd better pray the mob doesn't 1shot you before you turn around and let tsunami parry everything.</P>

[Almeric_CoS]

Personally, I don't miss the days of EQ1 when monks HAD to pull just about everything.  I think Tsunami is a much grander skill outside of the pulling arena.  If prox-pulling is the way of the future with the enhanced social agro, then let dirges pull with their speedly little legs.

[KnowH]

Tell that to the raid leaders that are stuck in the EQ1 ways and think that monks are the best way to pull...  1PP repair nights suck.  Same folks that don't let the monks tank anything in raids <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Almeric_CoS]

<DIV>Any raid leader who thinks this is EQ1 isn't qualified to be a raid leader.  Period.</DIV>

[Timaarit]

<blockquote><hr>Xibitt wrote:<div></div>Tsunami doesn't work if you aren't in combat anymore.  That's probably why they were ignoring it.<hr></blockquote>Tsunami works all right even if you are not in combat. You just will not riposte anything, just parry. Or then it is bugged so that hits that would have been riposted, go through and hits from behind that are just parried, are parried. I have trained through 8 blue con mobs while using Tsunami and ward and I did not get hit. So I think Tsunami still works. After all, riposte is part of parry. So if you parry, you have a chance to riposte. They just removed the riposte from the parry. And like I said, most mobs have some sort of CA's that will go through Tsunami. I think guardians have Obliterate for one. I was one shotted by epics before this chance even though using tsunami and ward.<div></div>

[RyanTSi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RyanTSi wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Coccinea_Maga wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KR wrote:<BR>Good Job SOE. First making Talon a .5 cast time ability...and also changing tsunami. Not like these are big changes..I personally don't care about the changes. But the point is brawlers need to be changed drastically to give them an identity. These pos little changes are a slap in the face.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>They didn't "change tsunami"; they changed the way riposte works.  Tsunami will still parry any incoming <B>auto-attacks</B>.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>actually no, it will not parry attacks from the front.......the way tsunami works is that it will reposte form the front and parry form the back...since you can no longer reposte from the front tsunami will provide 0 protection from attacks to the front and still only parry form behind.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Artem]

<DIV>Actually thats not right.  The way tsunami is worded is kinda funny.  You basicly will parry 100% of attacks from all quadrants and if the attack lands in your frontal quadrant then you will riposte it.  With the recent changes tho if you arent engaged in combat tsunami is worthless.  So for those of you who tsunami pull(or train) i have an easy solution for you.  Make a 3 line macro that goes like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/target <your charater name here>  (have to make the first letter of your name capitol)  ex  /target Artimis</DIV> <DIV>/autoattack 1</DIV> <DIV>/usea tsunami</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basicly what that does is it engages you in combat with yourself so tsunami works and you can still proximity pull with out actually engaging the mob and having it bring 10 million friends.</DIV>

[ojiji]

maybe that macro work fine. but /target **** has bit delay./target_self is better.ex. self heal/target ****/usea healdoesnot work./target_self/usea healwork fine.<div></div>

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>This is bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why does tsunami not work out of combat, but stone deaf does.</DIV>

[brazenbrit]

<DIV>Because Stone Deaf is just a ward ... change that so it can't be cast out-of-combat and you'll have some fairly major issues with shamans.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DynamicPerforman]

I still don't see why all the other defensive abilities (stone deaf, outward calm are just examples) can be used out of combat, but tsunami is now useless to defend yourself with.

[selch]

You guys totally out of context...You can use Tsunami in-out combat to defend yourself. You will still Parry all attacks if avoidance rules were not [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up (LOL, well, this made me laugh and make myself sad) but it will just not riposte. Riposte is "counter-damage" , not something to do with lessening your defense.And for Outward Calm / Stone Def stuff, they are also meant to be used pre-combat as well, so you dont get insta damage.

[DynamicPerforman]

<DIV>Your wrong selch.  If you use tsunami and are NOT IN COMBAT it WILL NOT PARRY.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've tested it for hours, and i've effectivly because a lame duck on raid body pulls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm working on a pally (who's damage ward DOES work ooc) to tank raids until this is fixed.</DIV>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<P>It sounds like they took out Parrying instead of just Riposting.</P> <P>Has anyone sat down and tried letting a green solo attack them and see if you set off any parries anymore (without going into combat)? I might try that myself sometime...</P>

[Artem]

<DIV>Yeah, it doesnt work out of combat, so use the macro i made above and stop crying</DIV>

[Exordus]

<DIV>I'm new to this whole discussion, but figured I'd throw my 2cents in.  I'm level 61 with Adept III tsunami.  While in the Nest our tank kept trying to pull Ketteleader but kept getting stomped before the healers could keep up with the damage.  So for the first time while in a group, I used my Tsunami skill to pull something.  Thankfully I've been reading the forums on this and once I had Ketteleader targeted I put myself in combat by hitting my "attack" button, activated Tsunami, and body pulled him.  The outcome?  Ran back to my group taking zero damage and the tank taunted him off me right away.  Seemed to have worked perfectly.  Thanks for the good advice in here everyone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Xordus~  61 Monk, Officer of "The Brotherhood" / EverGrobb</DIV>