H2H?

[Clailmebe]

<DIV>Im thinking of making a monk for an alt just to try it out, i was wondering though, i always see monks with either staffs/batons or knuckles/fist wraps. But seeing how we are monks...cant we fight without any sort of weapon, just plain hand to hand? Are their any bonuses to it or anything or are weapons just better overall? And is their a way we can figure out our dps when we have no weapons equiped?</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Clailmebe wrote:<BR> <DIV>Im thinking of making a monk for an alt just to try it out, i was wondering though, i always see monks with either staffs/batons or knuckles/fist wraps. But seeing how we are monks...cant we fight without any sort of weapon, just plain hand to hand? Are their any bonuses to it or anything or are weapons just better overall? And is their a way we can figure out our dps when we have no weapons equiped?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Fighting bare-fisted is unwise in EQ2 unless you use the Strength line of achievement points. Fighting Barefisted counts as a two-handed attack. You don't use both fists to hit individually. You use both fists to hit once.  Using even the most basic weapons would be an improvement over using bare-fists.

[wesbarlow]

<DIV>go with weapons definately. especially in the lower tiers because of the stat bonuses. i've never done the str AA line but it's my understanding you need at least 3 points in the unarmed before it's worth anything</DIV>

[Devolux]

The first reply is correct about store bought 2 hander being the same as fists - for damage rating.HOWEVER, if you max out the STR line you can shell out an amazing amount of dps.  I would argue that you do more DPS barehanded than any other line (as a T7 monk) until you acquire 57+ damage raiting dual wielders or a 100+ damage rating 2 hander.  I have parses I can post to prove the DPS is legitimate - however, nerf bait makes that an issue we don't want to get in to.  Figure you double attack on almost 100% of your attacks - which basically makes your fists into 2 - 2handers - meaning basically dual wielding store bought 2 handers.  Also - the 20% DPSmod makes those store bought 2hander fists considerably more damaging.  Take into account our haste - (2 handers have slow delay) - and you are hitting like a machine.  ALSO - with 10% riposte you are getting a boost to Avoidance (not counted in base) and a boost to damage.  The loss in the line equates to 400-500 hps and a bit of stats (over say t7 fabled weps, or a Grizzfazzles 2 hander).  Which is fairly insignificant as raid DPS, or tanking in groups.  Not to mention out Hate increaser works of hitting the mob.  At low levels - I would argue that bare fists might be better also - as you will be hard pressed on a PvE server to get your hands on some t3 fabled dual wielders.  The limiting factor is how low your AAs will be - having a much less significant impact on a lvl 20-50 player than on a lvl 70 player - with 50 AAs.Try it out - there is a nice feel to it and suprising DPS.<div></div>

[ke'la]

<P>If you don't mind using Boxing moves instead of Marshal Arts, and don't mind living in FP, you may want to consiter Brusier instead of Monk as for the most part our two classes are very simalar. However, Bruisers have a constent buff(or it could be part of thier stance) that gives them a Very powerful Proc when fighting bare handed.</P> <P>However, even with that you should still ONLY go without weopons if your going to max out the STR AA line.  Because you really can't compete with the Higher DR, Stats and Procs you get when using weopons. BTW if you wair 2 fist wraps you accually look like you are fighting Sans weopons, eventhough you have them.</P>

[Bewts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devolux wrote:<BR>The first reply is correct about store bought 2 hander being the same as fists - for damage rating.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ccff00>HOWEVER, if you max out the STR line you can shell out an amazing amount of dps.  I would argue that you do more DPS barehanded than any other line (as a T7 monk) until you acquire 57+ damage raiting dual wielders or a 100+ damage rating 2 hander.  I have parses I can post to prove the DPS is legitimate - however, nerf bait makes that an issue we don't want to get in to.  <BR></FONT><BR>Figure you double attack on almost 100% of your attacks - which basically makes your fists into 2 - 2handers - meaning basically dual wielding store bought 2 handers.  Also - the 20% DPSmod makes those store bought 2hander fists considerably more damaging.  Take into account our haste - (2 handers have slow delay) - and you are hitting like a machine.  ALSO - with 10% riposte you are getting a boost to Avoidance (not counted in base) and a boost to damage.  The loss in the line equates to 400-500 hps and a bit of stats (over say t7 fabled weps, or a Grizzfazzles 2 hander).  Which is fairly insignificant as raid DPS, or tanking in groups.  Not to mention out Hate increaser works of hitting the mob.  <BR><BR>At low levels - I would argue that bare fists might be better also - as you will be hard pressed on a PvE server to get your hands on some t3 fabled dual wielders.  The limiting factor is how low your AAs will be - having a much less significant impact on a lvl 20-50 player than on a lvl 70 player - with 50 AAs.<BR><BR>Try it out - there is a nice feel to it and suprising DPS.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Once level 70, you will find better DPS with the STR AA's and fighting weaponless until you obtain weapons over 57+ DR.  I have a PM from the development team confirming this is intended to be the case.  Pretty much it provides those in guilds not capable of downing endgame raid content a way to obtain similar DPS numbers.  The only drawback is the loss of stats by not using weapons although in most raid setups you won't notice a difference in resists by using weapons as few weapons actually have resists on them.  You'd only lose raw HP and depending on the rest of your gear you might not cap STR STA or AGI.  If you  are looking at the STR line and only care about DPS you can't go wrong with it until you see 57+ DR weapons.  Now if you plan on tanking raid content you'd be better served using different AA line setups.</P> <P> </P> <P>Overall I'd give the STR line a thumbs up to any brawler who doesn't raid often, or isn't raiding endgame content to see the high duel weild DR weapons.<BR></P>

[KeldynArund]

Unfortunately, fist wraps do show as weapons from what I've experienced. They look like big metal knuckles, kinda look stupid. Recently I tried some quarterstaffs and there must be no weapon graphics for quarterstaffs, because my monk looked like he was fighting with his fists only and that's exactly what I was wanting!<div></div>

[Fascin]

Just like to add 1 more question to this thread if anyone knows the answer...  How many AAs do you need saved up before you can do an effective respec into the STR line?   Right now im going down the AGI line and since I cant go 8s all the way in STR I was wondering what point and AA config to use.  Thanks for any insight...

[Zigmun]

<P>Your goal should be </P> <P>Str 4/4/8</P> <P>Int 4/4/8 (the 18% crit bonus from the int line works on CA's as well as your regular hits) - this is 16 points I just can't see myself ever moving - 18% chance to crit is just to sweet to give up.</P> <P>When you get the 57 dr weapons then you can think of switching out to different aa, but honestly - most of the other lines just don't give you the same bang for the buck as str/int.</P> <P>Wisdom is 2 handed so you need at least a 100 or 120 DR weapon to make the switch worth it - so unless you are in a top raiding guild its going to be a long time before you make that switch.</P> <P>Stanima - 11% stanima debuff is the only thing worth getting in the line imo. (If you are on a pvp server - end ability would be worth it), but you have to give up alot of dps to go that way.</P> <P>Agility - not worth it - worst line, unless you want to blow all your points to get the endgame ability.</P> <P> </P>

[RyanTSi]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zigmund9 wrote:<BR> <P>Your goal should be </P> <P>Str 4/4/8</P> <P>Int 4/4/8 (the 18% crit bonus from the int line works on CA's as well as your regular hits) - this is 16 points I just can't see myself ever moving - 18% chance to crit is just to sweet to give up.</P> <P>When you get the 57 dr weapons then you can think of switching out to different aa, but honestly - most of the other lines just don't give you the same bang for the buck as str/int.</P> <P>Wisdom is 2 handed so you need at least a 100 or 120 DR weapon to make the switch worth it - so unless you are in a top raiding guild its going to be a long time before you make that switch.</P> <P>Stanima - 11% stanima debuff is the only thing worth getting in the line imo. (If you are on a pvp server - end ability would be worth it), but you have to give up alot of dps to go that way.</P> <P>Agility - not worth it - worst line, unless you want to blow all your points to get the endgame ability.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>the proc is also pretty nice in the sta line for dps, low damage but high %....i personally wouldnt give up points from the sta debuff for it though.</DIV>

[Kevonli]

<div><blockquote><hr>KeldynArundel wrote:Unfortunately, fist wraps do show as weapons from what I've experienced. They look like big metal knuckles, kinda look stupid. Recently I tried some quarterstaffs and there must be no weapon graphics for quarterstaffs, because my monk looked like he was fighting with his fists only and that's exactly what I was wanting!<div></div><hr></blockquote>Unless certain tiers have their graphics messed up (wouldn't be surprised <span>:smileytongue:</span>) - Fist wraps, made using rare hides at the loom (except for t2 which was using Blackened Iron clusters last I heard), appear as though you were fighting empty-handed - Metal Knuckles, funnily enough, look like big metal knuckles <span>:smileytongue:</span>Not sure about the other kinds of fist weapons, my monk's still very young <span>:smileywink:</span></div>