Another Monk change in TC

[selch]

<DIV>I will not comment on this, just letting you know :smileymad::</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Monk: Winter's Talon: Stun changed to Daze. Increased duration to 3 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>05-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:46 PM</span>

[tuli]

<DIV>Now that will really hurt many tanking monks that are not in raid gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Stryyfe]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tulien wrote:<BR> <DIV>Now that will really hurt many tanking monks that are not in raid gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How the hell do you figure?</P> <P>Just wait and try it. Sheesh you people....always hating on raiders etc... before the patch even comes out or before you have tested it on test.</P> <P>Give it a rest and judge after you see the result first hand.</P>

[Sslarrga]

<DIV>The change will benefit you if fighting against melee mobs.  3 seconds of no auto-attack slightly better than 2 seconds (or 1.5 seconds after the change) of no autoattack and CAs.  It's not like you have a very good chance of interrupting most CAs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However the change REALLY hurts against caster mobs.  Against caster mobs I could care less about the stun component.  It's the ability to interrupt their spell casting that is absolutely key.  This is one of the main abilities I use to avoid those 500-1500 damage nukes when in groups or soloing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also one of the key abilities in PvP against priest.  Especially against Inquisitors with their bloody damage shield + healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Meh.  Great vs melee, suck [Removed for Content] vs casters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker</DIV>

[tuli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stryyfe wrote:<BR> <P>Just wait and try it. Sheesh you people....always hating on raiders etc... before the patch even comes out or before you have tested it on test.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>*cough* I'm a raider and I did not see any use of Stun in raids, did you?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Sslarrga]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tulien wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stryyfe wrote:<BR> <P>Just wait and try it. Sheesh you people....always hating on raiders etc... before the patch even comes out or before you have tested it on test.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>*cough* I'm a raider and I did not see any use of Stun in raids, did you?</P> <P><BR> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I believe Stryyfe was replying to the post above his where a NON-raider was commenting that this hurts NON-raid tanking monks especially if they don't have RAID gear...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know, because they don't raid...  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW - I don't think he was hating on raiders Stryyfe as much as he was pointing out that the change hurts non-raiding monks more than it does raiding monks.  And against caster mobs that's true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker<BR></DIV>

[JudyJudy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sslarrga wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> tulien wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stryyfe wrote:<BR> <P>Just wait and try it. Sheesh you people....always hating on raiders etc... before the patch even comes out or before you have tested it on test.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>*cough* I'm a raider and I did not see any use of Stun in raids, did you?</P> <P><BR> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I believe Stryyfe was replying to the post above his where a NON-raider was commenting that this hurts NON-raid tanking monks especially if they don't have RAID gear...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know, because they don't raid...  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW - I don't think he was hating on raiders Stryyfe as much as he was pointing out that the change hurts non-raiding monks more than it does raiding monks.  And against caster mobs that's true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Croaker<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>I agree.</EM></P> <P><EM>What also needs to be understood is that MANY individuals within a hard-core raiding guild still do in fact, regardless of others think, spend time solo'ing, grouping and questing almost as much as the rest of us - They just happen to make raiding their focal point.</EM></P> <P><EM>This LU will affect us all - Hard-core raiders or not.</EM></P>

[Gaige]

You also have to realize that I'm sure mob changes will also be a part of these and coming changes.  Since a lot of mobs were beefed up to get around the potential for them to stay stunned the entire fight (by having huge debuffs and the ability to one shot the tank) - they should be going back to normal since all of these control changes would allow them to be challenging without being overpowered.

[Sslarrga]

<P>That would make sense Gaige, and if true then I welcome it.  Soloing isn't a large part of my play experience so it doesn't impact me greatly, however the times I do, casters mobs will be just that much more challenging.</P> <P>Once nice side effect.  Hopefully mob stuns, mez, and roots are also lower in duration like player versions.</P> <P>Regards,</P> <P>Croaker</P>

[Despak]

A 3 second Daze will be quite nice for soloing against multiple mobs, smack the tank mob and turn back to the caster (as seems so common these days), reduces a nice portion of damage taken.<p>Message Edited by Despak on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:20 AM</span>

[Balmore]

Nice change, IMO -- the stun wasn't really a big deal. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[PrimusPilus]

<blockquote><hr>Gaige wrote:You also have to realize that I'm sure mob changes will also be a part of these and coming changes.  Since a lot of mobs were beefed up to get around the potential for them to stay stunned the entire fight (by having huge debuffs and the ability to one shot the tank) - they should be going back to normal since all of these control changes would allow them to be challenging without being overpowered.<hr></blockquote>One of the Devs gave the reasoning for the stun changes, that is, that players were now chain stunning mobs so often that the only way the Devs could make them a challenge was to allow them to hit very hard (and accuratly, so as to assure they DID hit when they could) so that they would still do challenging damage. The problem was that they now hit so hard that they could one shot plate tanks. The only solution is to make it impossible to chain stun mobs, so they are doing that. Now they need to test that, especially against those mobs in certain places that appear to have been designed to be a challenge in a chain stun world. Such a place is the Halls of fate, wher many of the mobs hit hard enough to one shot a plate tank. They will probably have to nerf the monsters maximum damage hits, and some of their accuracy, since how they may be hitting say 30% or more often, and no one could beat them if they are left as is.I think that when all that is done, only some monsters will be majorly nerfed. Solo monsters would only need slight nerfs, and some heroic monsters may get moderate nerfs. Only some monsters in some places will get serious nerfs I think, those monsters that appear to have been designed to get around the problem of chain stunning, such as those in halls of Fate. Epic monsters will probaly be virtually untouched, since they could not be stunned, or stunned enough to matter, anyway. There may be a slight nerf there, since some could be knocked down briefly, although I suspect that the mez changes will mean that a few monsters become mez immune while others become mezzable to some extant, and that may make some selected changes in specific instances if this trivializes some encounters.The result of at least some monsters doing less top end damage means that monks should have an easier time tanking some heroic encounters, since they do well against more smaller hits as against a few big ones, due to the chance nature of avoidence.

[Code2501]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PrimusPilus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gaige wrote:<BR> You also have to realize that I'm sure mob changes will also be a part of these and coming changes.  Since a lot of mobs were beefed up to get around the potential for them to stay stunned the entire fight (by having huge debuffs and the ability to one shot the tank) - they should be going back to normal since all of these control changes would allow them to be challenging without being overpowered.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>One of the Devs gave the reasoning for the stun changes, that is, that players were now chain stunning mobs so often that the only way the Devs could make them a challenge was to allow them to hit very hard (and accuratly, so as to assure they DID hit when they could) so that they would still do challenging damage. The problem was that they now hit so hard that they could one shot plate tanks. The only solution is to make it impossible to chain stun mobs, so they are doing that. Now they need to test that, especially against those mobs in certain places that appear to have been designed to be a challenge in a chain stun world. Such a place is the Halls of fate, wher many of the mobs hit hard enough to one shot a plate tank. They will probably have to nerf the monsters maximum damage hits, and some of their accuracy, since how they may be hitting say 30% or more often, and no one could beat them if they are left as is.<BR><BR>I think that when all that is done, only some monsters will be majorly nerfed. Solo monsters would only need slight nerfs, and some heroic monsters may get moderate nerfs. Only some monsters in some places will get serious nerfs I think, those monsters that appear to have been designed to get around the problem of chain stunning, such as those in halls of Fate. Epic monsters will probaly be virtually untouched, since they could not be stunned, or stunned enough to matter, anyway. There may be a slight nerf there, since some could be knocked down briefly, although I suspect that the mez changes will mean that a few monsters become mez immune while others become mezzable to some extant, and that may make some selected changes in specific instances if this trivializes some encounters.<BR><BR>The result of at least some monsters doing less top end damage means that monks should have an easier time tanking some heroic encounters, since they do well against more smaller hits as against a few big ones, due to the chance nature of avoidence.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Which is all fair enough, however nerfs to monsters has only been alluded to informally. Nowhere(that i have read) have the devs formally stated that they will be re-evalluating existing content in light of these changes, nor have there been any such content changes noted for LU24 which is due to be released in aproximately 2 weeks.</P> <P>On the assumption that the dev team do intend to make adjustments to existing content, I would question how long we will be expected to live with the current LU24 changes before those adjustments are implemented.</P> <P>Without assuming content changes that have not been announced which may or may not make existing content less difficult to solo, group or raid, this change as implemented makes the tallon line useless against casters, plain and simple, no ifs no buts.</P><p>Message Edited by Code2501 on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:16 PM</span>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Code2501 wrote:<BR> <P>Which is all fair enough, however nerfs to monsters has only been alluded to informally. <FONT color=#ffff00>Nowhere(that i have read) have the <STRONG><U>devs formally stated that they will be re-evalluating existing content in light of these changes</U></STRONG>, nor have there been any such content changes noted for LU24 which is due to be released in aproximately 2 weeks.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That's also I worry about. We all hear player changes but no officially note for monster changes at all.</P> <P> </P>