question regarding +crushing and combat arts.

[Gungo]

<DIV>So the other bruiser in guild asked me if he should put the twin clamities w 63.2 DR(non pierce debuff one) in his main hand or another fist wpn (skewer that drops in halls of seeing) w + crushing but less DR in his main hand. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I told him i don't think it really made a difference since each hand is independant. But he made a very good point. He said many melee based combart arts are based on your primary hand. So wouldn't the crushing wpn be better in the main hand since he had more overall +crushing. Thus allowing his Combat arts based on his primary (crushing wpn) a better chance to hit. I don't know. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess my question is does + crushing help crushing based combat arts?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:09 AM</span>

[zabor]

If it is only for dpsing, +crushing doesnt matter, since you will always hit with offensive stance.

[Baelas]

Yes, +crushing helps crushing based combat arts.As for the rest of the question, I haven't used anything but bo staves for the last six months so I'm not sure if it has changed, but it used to be that your primary hand only decided what damage the "variable" combat arts didOn the other hand, I think most combat arts have a set damage type for monks.So... in other words, I don't think it will make a huge difference, but I can't see any downside to putting a crushing based weapon in main hand. (Unless of course the monster you're fighting is resistant to it, but that's another topic entirely)<div></div>

[Rrawl]

<P>He will receive the benefits of the bonus to crushing skill for all crushing skill checks, regardless of what hand it's in.</P> <P>I'd put the higher damage rating weapon in primary.</P>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zaboron wrote:<BR>If it is only for dpsing, +crushing doesnt matter, since you will always hit with offensive stance.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Don't spread bad information. You don't always hit as any parser will show. No one ever has 100% accuracy.</P> <P>Warlocks said the same thing about thier disruption buffs. Lockeye had to come in and show examples of how much +to skills helped. Its true it may be a minimal improvement, but that was not my point.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:00 PM</span>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rrawl wrote:<BR> <P>He will receive the benefits of the bonus to crushing skill for all crushing skill checks, regardless of what hand it's in.</P> <P>I'd put the higher damage rating weapon in primary.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Although the question had nothign to do with that. The question was should he place the crushing based wpn in main hand to allow the "melee" based combat arts to do crushing damage. Because it will take better advantage of the +crushing or should he place the Higher DR peircing wpn in his main hand.</P> <P>Edit: i am not sure if you knew but Any combat art that said does "XXX Melee damage" would actually do the type of damage based on yoru primary wpn. In example slash pierce or crush. So would it be better to place a crushing wpn in primary to take advanatage of the +crushing skills or not. Also placing the Higher DR wpn in primary does not increase your DPS. This is not EQ1. Each hand is independant. Your wpn in your primary does as much damage as the same wpn in your secondary including procs and all.</P> <P>But thanks for the answer. In his situation then he is better to put the lower dr crushing based wpn in primary to allow his "melee" based combat arts to have a better accuracy.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:31 AM</span>

[Zarvax]

<DIV>now... this doesn't have anything to do with +crushing per say... but as for what to equip in your Main hand, I primarily look at the proc... when using Combat Arts you only have a chance to proc your primary hand, your secondary will only proc off of auto-attack.  I keep my Debuff Calamity in my Primary most of the time, just so the debuff is up more often.</DIV>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zarvax wrote:<BR> <DIV>now... this doesn't have anything to do with +crushing per say... but as for what to equip in your Main hand, I primarily look at the proc... when using Combat Arts you only have a chance to proc your primary hand, your secondary will only proc off of auto-attack.  I keep my Debuff Calamity in my Primary most of the time, just so the debuff is up more often.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Dang you sure. I know it makes mechanical sense but i didn't think about this. In this case its probably best to have the best procing wpn in your primary. A well good discussion nontheless. i will have to look into this more to be sure. <BR>

[selch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zarvax wrote:<BR> <DIV>now... this doesn't have anything to do with +crushing per say... but as for what to equip in your Main hand, I primarily look at the proc... when using Combat Arts you only have a chance to proc your primary hand, your secondary will only proc off of auto-attack.  I keep my Debuff Calamity in my Primary most of the time, just so the debuff is up more often.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Dang you sure. I know it makes mechanical sense but i didn't think about this. In this case its probably best to have the best procing wpn in your primary. A well good discussion nontheless. i will have to look into this more to be sure. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Considering unlike other fighters we are "lesser" dependant on Combat Arts and by haste, we hit more auto-attack than CA's per period of encounter, both weapons should proc fine...</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>05-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:47 PM</span>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zarvax wrote:<BR> <DIV>now... this doesn't have anything to do with +crushing per say... but as for what to equip in your Main hand, I primarily look at the proc... when using Combat Arts you only have a chance to proc your primary hand, your secondary will only proc off of auto-attack.  I keep my Debuff Calamity in my Primary most of the time, just so the debuff is up more often.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Dang you sure. I know it makes mechanical sense but i didn't think about this. In this case its probably best to have the best procing wpn in your primary. A well good discussion nontheless. i will have to look into this more to be sure. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Considering unlike other fighters we are "lesser" dependant on Combat Arts and by haste, we hit more auto-attack than CA's per period of encounter, both weapons should proc fine...</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by selch on <SPAN class=date_text>05-16-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:47 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Both wpns will proc fine, but you will get the the proc off the primary wpn on yoru combat arts.</P> <P> </P>

[Code2501]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rrawl wrote:<BR> <P>He will receive the benefits of the bonus to crushing skill for all crushing skill checks, regardless of what hand it's in.</P> <P>I'd put the higher damage rating weapon in primary.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#ffff99>Although the question had nothign to do with that. The question was should he place the crushing based wpn in main hand to allow the "melee" based combat arts to do crushing damage. Because it will take better advantage of the +crushing or should he place the Higher DR peircing wpn in his main hand.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff99>Edit: i am not sure if you knew but Any combat art that said does "XXX Melee damage" would actually do the type of damage based on yoru primary wpn. In example slash pierce or crush. So would it be better to place a crushing wpn in primary to take advanatage of the +crushing skills or not.</FONT> Also placing the Higher DR wpn in primary does not increase your DPS. This is not EQ1. Each hand is independant. Your wpn in your primary does as much damage as the same wpn in your secondary including procs and all.</P> <P>But thanks for the answer. In his situation then he is better to put the lower dr crushing based wpn in primary to allow his "melee" based combat arts to have a better accuracy.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Gungo on <SPAN class=date_text>05-16-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:31 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Just to confuse the matter further...</DIV> <DIV>Crushing damage type and crushing skill are actually two independant things. A fist weapon may use crushing skill to determine attack rating (and hence ability to land the blow) but deal slash or pierce damage (actually it could deal any type of damage in the game if the devs chose it to). As an off the wall example you may have a sword, which uses the crushing skill but deals mental damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the correct answer to the question is entirely dependant on the skill type of the weapon not the damage type. Unlike previous tiers fist weapons, the 'Twin Calamities' weapons both use the piercing <U>skill</U> to determine its hit chance so it would not recieve the benefit of the +crushing for either combat arts or auto attack. </DIV> <DIV>If the other weapon is a crushing <U>skill</U> based weapon <FONT size=2>(I dont know, it could be slash skill with pierce damage and a +crush bonus for all I know)</FONT> then both melee CA's and auto attack(for that weapon) for would recieve a modest bonus to hit from the +crushing if equiped in the primary slot. In the secondary slot the bonus would only apply to auto attack.</DIV> <DIV>Also when considering damage type of combat arts, keep in mind most monk CA's have pre-defined damage types(bruisers may be different, I dont know).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So whilst Gungo is posibly correct (if the skewer uses crushing skill), his reasoning in it being related to damage type is misleading.<BR></DIV>

[Gungo]

correct but the bonus to hit on those few comabt arts is so small its best to put the highest procing wpn in your primary to take advantage of the proc n combat arts. Lots of good info in this thread.

[zabor]

weapon procs still apply from both hands, to autoattack and combat art damage.So i think, if you have the choice between weapons which use different skills, but the weapon with the higher melee skill in your primary slot (for monks that usually is crushing)

[TheSummoned]

I have a little test for you Gungo. Put a weapon that preferably uses a skill that you haven't maxed out (pierce/slash). If you did max them out, get a store bought weapon and go into defensive stance and try using combat arts on even con mobs. If you can, parse the misses that your combat arts did. Now put a high DR weapon in your primary (assuming you have one) instead of the store bought item. Def stance + even con mobs... Well, write down how many times you missed your combat arts with that weapon. Compare. If the difference isn't that great it won't matter which weapon he's holding in what hand. If it does make a major difference, then higher DR weapon is a must to go in the primary. Granted, you won't miss any combat arts on yellow mobs in offensive stance (unless mob is brawler), but when it comes to oranges it might make the difference. <div></div>

[Gungo]

The misses will not be great between the 2. But the higher skill will allow combat arts a bonus to hit.

[TheSummoned]

You get the skill bonus if you hold it in the right, or the left hand. Why do you think we find +crushing on jewelery or clothes? Would be near a total waste if what you're saying were true. Personaly I think the higher DR on the calamities will help him land his combat arts easier, while the +2 piercing will help him with auto attack. Another thing to note is that the quality of the skill will also help you land your attacks, master being the easiest. <div></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSummoned wrote:<BR>You get the skill bonus if you hold it in the right, or the left hand. Why do you think we find +crushing on jewelery or clothes? Would be near a total waste if what you're saying were true. Personaly I think the higher DR on the calamities will help him land his combat arts easier, while the +2 piercing will help him with auto attack. Another thing to note is that the quality of the skill will also help you land your attacks, master being the easiest.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am not saying it need to be on the wpn what i am saying is "MELEE damage Combat arts use yoru primary wpn TYPE to determine what type of skill check to use to hit SO it is best to use your highest base skill TYPE in your primary." <BR>

[TheSummoned]

<blockquote><hr>Gungo wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> TheSummoned wrote:You get the skill bonus if you hold it in the right, or the left hand. Why do you think we find +crushing on jewelery or clothes? Would be near a total waste if what you're saying were true. Personaly I think the higher DR on the calamities will help him land his combat arts easier, while the +2 piercing will help him with auto attack. Another thing to note is that the quality of the skill will also help you land your attacks, master being the easiest. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>I am not saying it need to be on the wpn what i am saying is "MELEE damage Combat arts use yoru primary wpn TYPE to determine what type of skill check to use to hit SO it is best to use your highest base skill TYPE in your primary." <hr></blockquote>Both Twin Calamities and Bonetooth Skewer use peircing as their check...<div></div>

[Gungo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSummoned wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gungo wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSummoned wrote:<BR>You get the skill bonus if you hold it in the right, or the left hand. Why do you think we find +crushing on jewelery or clothes? Would be near a total waste if what you're saying were true. Personaly I think the higher DR on the calamities will help him land his combat arts easier, while the +2 piercing will help him with auto attack. Another thing to note is that the quality of the skill will also help you land your attacks, master being the easiest.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am not saying it need to be on the wpn what i am saying is "MELEE damage Combat arts use yoru primary wpn TYPE to determine what type of skill check to use to hit SO it is best to use your highest base skill TYPE in your primary." <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Both Twin Calamities and Bonetooth Skewer use peircing as their check...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thats all cool and dandy but that wasnt my original point. Flame had 1 twin calamity and 1 crushing fist wpn from halls of seeing. So i asked if it was better for him to use the 63.2dr twin calamity in primary or the ~62 crushing fist wpn from halls of seeing w a much higher +crushing skill check.<BR>